01tl4tl

I have real concerns about this engines reliabilty
It was severly overheated to blow a head gasket- and not just once!
To do that would mean driving on a bad water pump for a while and not notice the temp running more than halfway

Have the head checked for warpage and crack damage before proceeding'

This engine may be toast--coolant pours from it and blown head gasket- at a minimum
did they tell you it had good compression before the sale?

jrdecat

Yes, they said that it tested 220-225 across all cylinders and that's what it shows on the invoice, but it's not like I got a full report on the thing. Just a one line description, but I guess you get what you pay for ($400). I can use heads from the old engine if need be, but I will definitely be going back to the place I bought the engine from. The last thing I want to do is another swap!

01tl4tl

no way it tested good compression with a blown head gasket
2 cylinders would be equal and lower than the rest--usually
Tell them 200 back is fair

fsttyms1

Im not sure i would keep the motor with the bad head gasket. You may be looking at more issues than just a head gasket. There may be damage to the motor or head involving more cost.

jrdecat

Called the yard that sold me the engine. They seem to be very willing to help...we will see soon. They will be sending a tech out to look at my car and determine the cause of the problem and work out a solution. I should have called them first instead of taking my car to the shop. Oh well, the shop only charged me $27 for the troubleshooting...

swalch@stanford.edu

I would think you would be better off to rebuild the original engine.

As to the used engine, it's aluminum and if it was overheated there may be enough warpage that it can't be rebuilt. At the very least it should be disassembled and the gasket surfaces checked as well as determine if it needs an align hone of the main bearings.

jrdecat

I'm getting a replacement engine...the only bad part is that I still get to do the replacing. Parts warranty only, not labor.

FirePR2002

you'll be a pro at this soon.

FirePR2002

more beer on this time around though.

TLer trash

Labor warranties are a lot like unicorns in the automotive industry. Are you getting any money back from the place that did the timing belt? Those knuckleheads owe you, and you should go after them. Depending on your state laws, you can usually use the court system or the bureau of auto regulation. I've seen lopsided rulings from both. You might want to ask around or do a little research, but don't let it slide. It's your money and those doofuses won't learn without negative reinforcement.

DarkSithCL

iTrader: (1)

WOW! ....this is involved... sounds like a day at the race track... swapin' engines and stuff... I am praying the next engine is SOLID... i admire your perseverance, but know you are not training to be an ACURA tech!

jrdecat

Trust me, I won't be letting this one slide. I tried to resolve it with their on-site service manager and got nowhere. The guy who worked on my car was trying to tell me that there is no way for them to test for valve damage without having the timing belt and water pump replaced so that the crank and cams turn in sync. Anyways, my first priority is getting the car running and then I will be going after those idiots. I get my replacement replacement engine on Wednesday. Plenty of time to stock up on beer. This swap should go a lot faster than the first one. Maybe this time around I will find out where the extra bolts go...

jrdecat

01tl4tl

the shop diagnosis is total bs
As soon as they saw the cams were not moving and the belt condition- the water pump was irrelevant
that motor had GUARANTEED valve damage that will require removal of the heads to inspect and fix--something they did not do!
then possible warpage from overheating, the DEFINITE valve impact damage etc

There was NO reason for this-- except a woman brought the car in, may have said husband out of town...perhaps something about alaska fishing (making them think Oh he has big time money like TV show--eff em!)
so they gave her a very minimum amount information and accurate description of the problems, and certainly not enough to make an informed decision on how to proceed..

I was in the biz- till ulcers told be to get an honest job

PLEASE take it right to small claims court, and your state bureau of auto repair- they license shops to operate and can make a seperate decision about the shop improperly charging you and how and what they did- take their own actions against the shop- from a warning to revocation of licenses

Dept of Consumer Affairs really frowns on auto repair scams--and thats what this was- total frikken scam on a woman-- for repairs they KNEW would NOT FIX the problem of it RUNNING at all!

gee whiz sir, we replaced your water pump knowing the valves are all bent to crap and suddenly now it needs new heads,,,

arghh- these type stories get to me and I try to offer ways to seek justice

jrdecat

I have already checked with the state of WA and there is no regulatory agency for auto shops. They just apply for a master business license and they're up and running. My 1st option is to file a complaint with the state attorney general's office and they offer a free mediation service to try and get things resolved peacefully. I've already tried the peaceful approach and they were d-bags about it. That service manager can't even grow a decent mustache! He's got the 7th grade kind of hair on his lip. After I file my complaint with the state attorney general and not seeking mediation, I will be filing a suit in small claims court. I will not let this thing go. That's $1400 of my money that they wasted and I WANT IT BACK! I think that my biggest bit of ammo will be if I can explain the procedure of checking for valve damage without repairing water pump and timing belt, so if anyone knows how to do that....preferably without tearing down the heads if possible...

TLer trash

They might have been able to simply pull one valve cover off, and check the valve lash. Occasionally you'll find a valve or two with a lot more clearance when they bend and can't seat properly. If that's not conclusive, they could have rotated the cam till the base circle of the lobes on one cylinder is in a position to adj. the valves. Then compressed air is introduced into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and a leakdown test is performed. This test can be as simple as listening to where the air comes out or it can be performed with a leakdown gauge. With the belt broken, this test can be done with the piston at either top or bottom dead center. With the belt intact it has to be at tdc, and it can be tricky to get the piston exactly at the top. If its off a little bit, it gets blown back to the bottom by the air.

01tl4tl

start small claims procedings immedialty for max amount allowed- they can award damages beyond sales prices

The fact they said it was an interferance engine with more than likely damage inside- there needed to be removal of a valve cover as said above- and possibly removing a cylinder head to inspect how bad it is
NOT replace a water pump on a broken melted destroyed timing belt-water pump assemblage--thats total BS to do!

In general- an interferance engine that broke while running is complete toast, and any good shop knows it and will be very clear about what that means
They dont want you coming back to sue their ass for incompetance later--like now!
This is a total case of- lets hose the woman on this job

I remember a job with bad ticking of valves on a caddy- removed dipstick- sludge.
removed 1 valve cover- sludge everywhere!!! definite lack of maitenance and no need to go further- its only going to get worse!!! No oil flowing up top means no oil flowing below.

The tech insisted on removing the intake manifold and a head- no small task-and confirmed my original diagnosis- dont go any further into this engine!!!!

He expected to get paid extra hours to remove and replace head for inspection- (insert laugh) when already instructed not to work on the car!
No mr Greedy tech--- you cant have a water pump for the car with the stuck valves- it wont fix the main problem~ de de deeeeee

speedemon90

Wow your timing belt went out so early. I'm at 161,xxx miles on my first timing belt still. Its not something im proud of but, I dont have the money to replace it. And im in college so if the car goes its not soo bad. Plus my parents will probably help me if the car dies. *knock on wood*

cobalt107

Request the shop to return your money, for the screwed up job, if they refuse. Carry the shop to small claims court & get your money back. It worked for me.

jrdecat

Ok, so I got my replacement replacement engine yesterday and there is an "ULEV" emblem on the engine cover which my old engine did not have. I googled it and blah blah California emissions crap. Anyway, my question is...am I losing power or any type of performance with the ULEV junk? I'd hate to throw in another engine to find out that I downgraded.

totaledTL

I assume you don't live in CA-? Why did they send you a CA engine then?

Srb

i think that engine came in the 2001 and possibly the 02/03 tl-p? i dont think theres much power difference if any. Can any 01 drivers confirm?

phee

iTrader: (5)

no power difference. all the california emmisions shit has to do with the cats.

jrdecat

So i'll make this one quick...the second replacement engine is in the car; however, when we were finished working tonight and tried to shift into neutral to push my car in the garage, the shift lever would not move from park. The state of the car is as follows:

Wiring harness connected
Battery connected
Fuel line not hooked up (it was cut off of engine)
#1 fuse on driver's side for fuel pump disconnected

The wiring harness worried me when i first saw it because you could tell that there was no care taken when removing it from the old car. It was basically ripped out. Are there any simple things that i should check before I go through the hassle of removing the harness from that i know is good from the old engine and using it on this one?

01tl4tl

use the old harness if possible--hopefully same sensors to connect
They do literally rip the engines out of junkers, cutting wires as they hold up the removal...fuel lines...coolant hoses etc,,,as you have seen

ULEV= Ultra Low Emission Vehicle,,
later years had SULEV Super Ultra Low..those cars qualify for a Ca carpool lane exemption,,but not plain us ULEVs
Know that you are putting out almost zero on the smog test readings and still plenty fast...some sort of social responsibilty

phee

iTrader: (5)

make sure your shift cable isnt being pressed against anything.

also, take a flathead and remove and press in the park tab by the shifter.

mvpel

You should get a California VECI label for the hood, just to be 100% finicky about it. You may need to give them the engine VIN number, since they order the labels by the VIN, not by part number.

My TL has California emissions, and it's served me well for nearly 10 years.

andrew070489

^ make sure they are OEM you can order them offline

jrdecat

Thanks for the info. After all these years of having the TL, I always wondered what was under that little tab next to the shifter! Well after I got everything buttoned back up she runs and drives just fine. The stuck in park problem magically fixed itself, as I didn't do jack squat to make it work. I do have a check engine and TCS light staring me in the face right now. Time to do some searching on P1367 and start by resetting the lights and hoping that it was just and intermittent code due to the engine swap.

Oh yah, the transmission seems to make a little bit more of a noise (slight clunk) when shifting into gear or from R to D. I don't know what's up with that.

If this all went smoothly then it wouldn't be much fun, right?

01tl4tl

check the trans fluid level per the book method of freeway drive then check- engine OFF
Should be between the dots

try an ecu reset with the CLOCK fuse

the ignition key fits perfect in the Nuetral safety lock override- the thing next to the shifter- push key down and shift to Nuetral--move key to ignition to start car--then fix whatever the problem is

totaledTL

Transm. FAQ states that's normal.

jrdecat

So tonight could be the night that I set my car on fire. I was going to drive over to Petsmart to get my faithful companion (dog NOT cat) some kibble and the car wouldn't start! I drove it to Cost Less Auto Parts this morning to have them reset the check engine light and it drove just fine (just not over 3000 rpm due to the cam sensor). Now it just cranks and cranks and cranks....Anyways the fuel is a bit low and it's parked on an incline, but i've parked and started it there for 2 years with much less fuel than is in it now. I loosened one of the fuel fittings and turned the key to run and there is definitely fuel in there as it squirted quite liberally. There's no need for me to replace the cam sensor and wiring harness until I get this figured out. I had felt that the car was taking about a full second longer to start than it had in the past, but I figured that it was probably just my imagination playing tricks on me. Now it's taking infinitely longer to start and it's neither my imagination nor the beer.

Any ideas?

01tl4tl

leave a fuel fitting loose--after checking your comprehensive insurance~

swalch@stanford.edu

I would swap in the wiring harness from the original engine along with any sensors that can be easily swapped. What is usually recommended is to swap the manifolds, sensors, and other parts from the original engine to the used engine. Also I hope you replaced the timing belt and associated parts on the used engine.

andrew070489

^ read before posting

01tl4tl

he replaced those parts, BUT did the timing belt job after the engine was installed..not on the ground where you can see everything
a problem in job that could result in cam sensor issue and running in Limp Mode

or was that on the 1st engine...Im lost now~

jrdecat

yah...i get mixed up too. that was the first replacement engine. this is the second replacement engine and i found the problem. it was a bad plug in the harness from it being ripped out of the old car.

i did the timing belt swap in the car on the first replacement engine because i could not get the crank nut off. so i put it in the car and used the starter method.

FirePR2002

So problem solved then?

jrdecat

Problem is kinda solved. I just got everything put back together and she fired right up. Sounds pretty good except that I can hear a slight rattle when I rev the engine. It seems to be coming from underneath the intake manifold. I double and triple checked the timing belt during installation so I'm 99.9% sure that it is aligned properly.I'm taking it to a shop tomorrow and have them check it out to make sure that I didn't do anything dumb. My car was down for about three weeks, but it saved me $3500 by doing it myself. Well worth it in my book.

01tl4tl

35 hours x 10 bucks an hour???
you get what you pay for in help these days eh~ lol