HacGyver

Hi,

first off, i have 02 tl type -s
and today on the way to work i noticed that the whole drive time(30 mins) the temperature gauge stayed at 1/3 way up, about 5 lines. where typically it is roughly 9 lines almost middle.
then when i came to a stop it idle'd a little rough, as soon as i started going again the temp gauge went up to normal and stayed there and the idle was fine at my next stop.
so i got to work and let it idle for 5 mins and everything was fine.

what could be the problem?
why was the temp lower??????
rough idle???

01tl4tl

I would remove the thermostat and test it- it may be stuck in the open position so the engine never gets warmed fully
You can also open the radiator cap when fully cold- start engine and observe coolant- there should not be any flow when dead cold, then as it sits and idles and warms up- the thermostat opens and water flows from the block into the radiator for cooling
You will see the movement of fluid - does it move right away or take a few minutes?

Idle prob--could be running on the cold start-full rich system if its got a stuck thermostat,,loading up the plugs etc

Whats the mileage currently?
Have you replaced the coolant ever?
Whats the overflow/res bottle for coolant doing?- at its full mark and the hose inside the cap is attached and is sitting in coolant?

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

i have no thermostat... and my car runs about 2 notches cooler then it used to... it solved all of my temerature problems... though others will say its a bad thing

good luck figuring it out... try removing it (thermostat) and see if it sticks...

HacGyver

thanks for the replies....

mileage is 100034
had a new water pump put on 2 years ago along with a radiator flush...but i dont think they changed thermostat, so that could make sense.

the rough idle now seems when i rev up to roughly 1000 rpm and keep it there, it goes up and down, i hear a ticking sound, and what sounds like a purging sound...if that helps any....

ftLauTL

the rough idle going up and down could be your IACV (intake air control valve)

01tl4tl

the IAC is cleanable- located on bottem side of the Throttle Body assembly
why are you holding the idle up?
have you done the egr port cleaning?
ever seafoamed it?

Driving without a thermostat is crazy!!! this is not your grandmas old chevy!
If you had to remove it to solve a temp issue- you probably need to clean the radiator and look at the water pump~

HacGyver

i was holding the idle up because every time i went past 1000 rpm i heard a clicking sound, and also a psssshhhh sound...
the pssshhhhh sound is coming from


do you know what this part is?
is it normal to make that sound? i never really heard it before now.
could this part also be the one making the clicking sound??


i have yet to clean the egr port or seafoam it.
but i plan to soon!! and clean the IAC

thanks for the help!!!!!!!!!

01tl4tl

purge control selenoid is in that area- easy diy or dont worry about it-
totally normal to make a small noise, even if it was silent for years- the noise isnt harmful to the parts operation

what have you found in the cooling system?- level was full in rad and in res bottle at correct fill line? hose on res cap was attached firmly (or transfer wont happen)
You can stick a thermometer in the rad as you watch the flow from cold start- see if it actually gets to 160 or 180 190--

The car is supposed to run at a certain temp- about 2 ticks below half on the TL
If its too cold it will think its dead cold and run on the cold start fuel program!
Could also mess with the EGR and when its open- it opens to help speed warming as well
At idle that will make for a big problem

Once the cooling issue is fixed- do the egr port cleaning and seafoam everything..
or wynns-bg- GM or honda products-
so as not be be accused of favoritism- I get no money for anything you buy

01tl4tl

quick test for thermostat stuck open making low running temp
The radiator hoses- top one should be HOT as the fluid leaves the engine
As it passes thru the rad it cools and the bottem hose should be a lower temp but still warm as it goes to the water pump and back to the engine

If the hoses are not the right temps it tells you where to look next-
not hot at top- closed thermostat
warm and warm- open thermostat
hot at both hoses- radiator clogged
there are more once you do troubleshooting

01tl4tl

Its been found that some shops dont open the engine block drain as required at coolant change/wp time
Owners DIY have found a lot of sand from the engine casting process still in the cooling system, in the block and the rad-not good!
Very important to get that out when you change coolant for any reason
Drain located on back of block- between cv and exhaust- easy access by remove right front wheel and go thru fenderwell to reach 12mm or 8mm bolt head, or a butterfly valve same as radiator drain on some lucky years~
Flush water thru the radiator and engine to get it out

Alex D

If you are overheating with the stock thermostat, you have other issues that need to be addressed. Removing the thermostat is not a good thing and the car will have trouble warming up during winter months. If the cooling system checks out, i would inspect the coolant temp sensor for the guage as that is probably bad.

jp75

iTrader: (1)

now im wondering if my car has no thermostat????to me it seems like it runs a lil cool ever since i bought it...maybe im just used to my interga that runs a notch below half..question..if the car is not reaching normal temp...would the fans still kick on????sorry for the questions on your thread..just got me thinking

6MTUA5

iTrader: (2)

Mine normally runs a few notches below halfway

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

my thermostat WAS bad.. which is why we took it out in the first place.
stock thermostats do go bad you know

and i wont have trouble starting the car considering our winter months are around 40 degrees...

my car doesnt overheat at all.. it just did the one time.. and it was a stuck thermostat... i've ran my accord (which went over 200k miles) without a thermostat for over 5 years...

i have yet to see any negative effects to this other then the car warming up slower... it will run 1 notch below normal temp.

i also ran warm a few months before removing the thermostat and come to find out it was just a bad fan motor...

Alex D

You are correct in stock thermostats can fail. Usually you replace them when they do fail, not remove them altogether. The motor needs to get to operating temperature to remove condensation from the motor oil to prevent excessive wear and if you care about interior cabin heat. Thats just a few off the top of my head that i can think of.

jp75

iTrader: (1)

ok..so whats normal temp????my car runs 6 lil nothches up..always..if you dont include the big nothch the indicates cold..my fans turn on..and my heat works fine...warms up fine in cold too ...idk..been like that ever since i bought the car in feb 09

HacGyver

radiator fluid is good.
res tank is about halfway full.
everything seems ok...for now. the temp has been acting normal ever since yesterday morning. which has been about 6 start ups. but i am going to buy a new thermostat and coolant just to be on the safe side!

1 side note...around 2 months ago i bought some "water wetter" and put it in the radiator...do you think this could of caused any problem??


thanks for the help on the purge solenoid! does this part go bad? will it affect anything if and when it does go bad?

01tl4tl

water wetter shouldnt make it run that much cooler
Guage should be 1-2 ticks below the halfway mark
Fan sensor has been known to fail and make the fan run and run and run- that would keep temp down too
An air bubble in the system can fake the thermostat and fan sensor out
Possible you got any air when adding the wetter?
Have you tried burping the system per the book?

dont sweat that purge selenoid for now- fix this issue

I have not heard of any guage sensor failure, just the actual fan operating sensor as a fairly common problem

01tl4tl

many users report the Honda thermostat from dealership is the one to use- not aftermarket as there have been many problems
The TL is picky about certain parts and thats one of them

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

tell me what operating temperature is.

looks like everyone else's temp to me?
as far as i know.. it just takes a moment longer to get to temperature...
and like i said.. i live in baton rouge.. i dont know if the heater has worked in any of my cars because we dont use them... i hate heat

01tl4tl

not using the heater is going to cause problems later- the coolant in the heater core (a mini radiator above the passengers feet) needs to get mixed with the other coolant to prevent rust buildup...old coolant goes acidic

Once a month use the heater for 10 minutes
In winter you use the AC to keep its seals lubed too- thats one reason it comes on when you set defrost On

travs 2002 tl type s

lol idk but it looks like ur low on gas

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

^^^ when your weekly cost in gas never exceeds 15 dollars you tend to let it run a little longer than usual... that much will last me 2 days

01tl4tl

no wonder your car never gets too hot- it never gets fully warmed up!

Rockstar21

iTrader: (1)

it hits temp. right as im parking at my house...

its on spirited rides on the weekends though... dont worry

systemtwentyone

Talk about thread revival...

So mine started running very warm, my ultragauge told me when I pulled it in the driveway, 255 and climbing. Immediately turned car off, drove to work next day, installed stant thermostat, and did radiator flush. For the first couple days, it was fine, stayed around 195, but now, I pulled into Walmart on my way home, UG said 231. It had been bouncing between 203 and 218 the whole way over here.

I don't have any loss of coolant, so I'm not betting on the water pump, just got a new radiator cap the other day, cause the other one went AWOL, did the thermostat, and a flush. Should I buy the Honda thermostat and replace?

Side note: the radiator hoses, at temperature, the upper is hella hot, and the lower typically is warm, not stupid hot, but hot hot.

Alex D

Did you bleed the coolant system of air?

systemtwentyone

I don't know how to do it...

Alex D

Remove radiator cap when car is cold, let it run at idle until it's warmed up. You will see it spit bubbles and such and let it get to operating temperature till you don't see any bubbles. Top off coolant and put radiator cap on. That's basically the process in a nutshell.

Chojun

If you suspect the thermostat then you could always throw yours in a pot of water, bring to a boil, and use a baking thermometer to see what temperature it opens at. If it's not in the ~200 range then your thermostat is defecto..

01acls

Hot and cool hoses is indication that thermostat is still close.

Did you install thermostat with the vent hole on top?

That is such a critical part I would use OEM only.

Skirmich

203 and 218 isn't crazy hot for the engine... Typically when those temps are reached the T-Stat remains fully open until the Temp Lowers. I would test my fans and see if the radiator isn't clogged from the outside fins.


The hoses are fine.. The upper one is the intake (Coming out of the engine) so it will always be stupid hot! the lower one is the Output (Going into the engine) so that will be always cooler than the upper hose.

systemtwentyone

How hot do our heads have to get before warping is an issue? It hit 240 again on the way to work this morning

Alex D

240 is pretty hot and you should not be getting near that if you are moving. Have you verified both fans are working and no air is caught in the cooling system?

systemtwentyone

Both fans work. That's the 2nd time it hit 240, dropping it off at the mechanic tonight to have the TB/WP replaced. It has stupid slow flow through the radiator though.

I just don't want to have to get heads for the thing. It does still have some residual white smoke out of the tailpipe, but I'm pretty sure that's the intake manifold gasket.

Skirmich

Around 270°F is enough to start warping the heads specially if that temp is reached when moving which is when it should be cooler by the RAM Air hitting the Rad..


The main issue is hot spots or areas where the Anti-Freeze stop the heat transfer from a specific part of the Head.. I've seen some racing engines hit around 320°F with no warping but that's with a specific amount of Anti-freeze % not the typical 50/50... 50/50 should be good at around 270°F more than that you are F*.. BUT In any case you should not allow the engine to go anywhere near that, specially moving.. FIX THE ISSUE ASAP!

systemtwentyone

Hottest it got moving was 235, took the TStat out before I made the 25 mile drive to the mechanic. Stayed around 165 the whole way. Now I just have to wait a week and a half to get it back.

But 900 to do the TB/WP, front main, adjust the valves with all associated gaskets, I'm not complaining.

01tl4tl

call them asap! make sure the tech does ck of coolant for carbon monoxide before draining
Assuming that's already drained- have the spark plugs removed- if water/coolant from bad head gasket is in the cylinders = guess what!

At that point you want to stop the repairs an drop in a different engine- no kidding

If you redlined the temp several times, have white smoke from exhaust, lose coolant and or gain engine oil level on dipstick = see `guess what` above
Doesn't take much to warp our heads,,or the cars cylinder heads

systemtwentyone

So after 11 days in the shop, an absolutely failed compression test later (got the adapter stuck in cyl 4 spark plug hole), and 2 more days in the shop, the head gasket is toast. Rad had no or very little coolant in it, stayed around 210 degrees F, and smoking pretty consistently.

Does that BlueDevil stuff work? I mean, its getting fixed in July, and I'm buying a beater til then so I'll have something to drive. I just need this gasket to last until the 27th of this month so I can buy the other car and park the TL. Until I get it fixed, at least. 285,000 miles on the original HG isn't bad if I say so myself. He wants $1200 to do it, and that's checking the heads, shaving/milling as necessary, and all of the other gaskets (valve cover, IM, etc.).

MarcDavidoff

Two things- I wouldn't put HG sealer in the system as it will likely block up passageways such as in the heater core and radiator. It may work temporarily but it will probably not be worth fouling up the cooling system.
Also, with the mileage on your car, I would think it would be easier to just find a lower mileage engine and replace the whole engine rather than fix the old one ESP if the heads may have been warped. 3.2 engines for the 2G I see routinely on CL for pretty cheap