vinovelo

I did a search on tranny symptoms but didn't quite run across this symptom:

- Only after driving 20+ miles at smooth highway speeds (no traffic) and
then stopping at the end of a ramp (or 2nd time after that) I get an
abrupt BANG out of the tranny. Not a loud sound but I feel as though
I ran over something hard (without feeling it in the the steering wheel
or tires).

- There is no noticable slippage.

- It does not appear to be in the midst of a gear transition.

- It onlly happens once. Attempt to reproduce it are futile.

- No warning lights.

- Car has 49k, tranny recall done about 4k ago, fluiid changed at 32k miles.
Fuild "looks" ok, red, not brown or black. Filll level is ok.

- This has happened twice in a two week period. Even attempts at hard
driving cannot force the tranny to skip, slip, or misbehave in any way.
It has only happened under easy smooth driving conditons taking off
from a start very gently.

Anyone had this symptom? If so how much of a warning was it before
failure or was it something else?

Man, I HATE the way this tranny behaves, even normal behavior: Hard
cold shifts, dragging under deceleration in 1,2,3 gears. I love everything
else about the car but the tranny, yuck, even when it works to spec.
If they could have just engineered the tranny like the sweek bullet proof
3.2 Vtec engine this car would be awesome.

Also, I'm going to change oil and tranny fluid again. Anyone know of a
superior fluid than the Honda one (which seeme to be STRONGLY recommended).

If this thiing blows have the done anything to make the replacements more
reliable? (last exhaustive search on this said: No).

Thanks all, (I got a bad feeling about this...),

/Steve

2001 TL, Black/Black w/Navi

03CoupeV6

Hard cold shifts are normal for most cars until the fluid warms up, and what do you mean by dragging under deceleration?

vinovelo

That may be true but I have never had one that behaved with cold hard
shifts like this one. Fords, GM's, (unreliable in just about every other way)
and especially Toyota's. My 2nd car is a 94 Camry XLE with the smoothest
tranny I ever owned. Near 100k miles and still shifts like it did new; smooth
hot or cold.

What I meant by dragging is that the tranny behaves like a manual in
gears 1,2 and 3. When driving at about 35 mph and letting off the gas
for say a changing light, the transmission drags and slows down the car
to much. It doesn't freewheel when letting off the gas like just about
every other automatic I've had. It does not do this in 4th and 5th, but
is very noticable in 3rd and 2nd.

After dragging for about 3-4 seconds sometimes it releases and coasts
freely. But many times I have to give it more gas so as not to slow down
too much. Very irritatting (even though it's a minor thing).

On the other hand when the tranny gets fully warmed up on rolling terrain
shifting is very smooth. If they could get the reliability up with it I could overlook
other quirks.

Thanks,

/STeve

03CoupeV6

I think what you're talking about is Grade Logic where it's trying to help you with engine braking, even if it goes a little overboard.

But I agree on one thing, my best friend has a 98 Camry with 111k miles and that car has been bulletproof, transmission shifts like new to this day.

suj220

I've felt the same slowing down on the first three gears on my ride to work on the NJ Turnpike. I could be driving at like 70 and when I hit the brakes it goes to 50 and then all of a sudden the car suddenly slows rapidly and "drags" in the 3rd to 2nd gear shift. The car sort of feels like its coasting in between gears ....

So far though I have not felt the same "drag" in moderate traffic street roads.


btw...what is grade logic...how does that work?

vinovelo

Grade logic is the ECU's way of trying to tell if the behavior of the drivetrain
is such that engine braking would be more efficient in a decerlation situation
than relying on the driver to use just the brakes. Also it anticipates wether to
hold a gear for a short rise of a hill or wether it needs to downshift to a more
appropriate gear to maximize the engine efficency.

It actually works very well on the TL.

But what I notice is somewhat subtle and feels more like the tranny's torque
converter is hesitant to release and allow the car to fully coast.

/Steve

03CoupeV6

Maybe you should take it in and have it checked? The transmissions are the downfall of these cars, mine behaves downright weird sometimes. It's hesitant to downshift, will slam into a gear, and I think I might know what you're talking about:

My car sometimes feels like it's killing the engine because the transmission's torque converter won't release and it's staying in a gear that's too high for speeds.

The transmissions are just weird. I guess we have to learn to deal with that and enjoy the rest of the car, of search elsewhere.

vinovelo

Well now a few weeks later it is starting to slip in 3rd gear. Sounds like a classic
symptom. I'll change the fluid but this doesn't sound good. Nobody seems to
really know if the replacement tranny's are improved or not. Asked the dealer
and he said they honestly do not know. Factory says so but does not supply
any details.

Funny thing is when it slips it does so once, I'll see the revs slide up 500 rpms
and then slide into gear. No jerkiness. Afterwards I cannot get it to reproduce
at all. Happens once in a great while at random.

fsttyms1

thats what all 3 of my failures did. get an appt to have teh dealer look into it. it will get worse just before it goes

vinovelo

Hooked up my scanner to it. "vehicle not responding" error code.
(I have used this scanner with this car once before ok). Wierd.

Double flushed the tranny. So far no more slips. Shifting a tiny bit smoother.

Probably just stalling off the inevitable failure.

fsttyms1

humm dont know what to say. are you sure it was hooked up corectly? (sorry just have to ask the obvious)

is the tranny still acting weird or has it gone away?
if its still acting up i may be inclined to bring it to the dealer

fla-tls

Since you are under warranty, I wouldn't go to much cost or effort in trying to repair it. Let it fail and get it replaced under warranty.

As far as your fluid question... Amsoil synthetic ATF also meets Z-1 spec and can be used in the tranny. It's much better at resisting high temperatures without breaking down. It will - however - make the car shift firmer under higher throttle. (light throttle is not affected very much)

This is better on your tranny clutches, but maybe not as good for your engine mounts!

fsttyms1

ill take bad mounts over faster better for tranny shifts any day

vinovelo

Tranny: Just completed the third flush.

1st drain sample. Redish brown. Not burnt smelling but as someone stated
a bit like motor oil 1/2 way through a cycle. At 50k miles. I did a double flush
at 30K miles.

2nd drain. Noticably more red and clearer but still not near like new fluid.

3rd flush. Now at 12.5% old 87.5% new. hardly any darker than new fluid.

No slipping symptoms anymore. This MIGHT be a way tp prolong the tranny
life. Although if that were so I'd bet every dealer would be changing fluid
like crazy and Acura would have sent out notices to do this. Only time will tell.

I'd like to see how far I can get with the original tranny so as to see how to
treat a replacement. If I have to replace it I only want it done once.

LEMON IS A DEALER INSTALLED OPTION.

Scanner: Dunno. Tried it several times. Igition on, engine off, then on,....
Will try a different vehicle next.

vinovelo

UPDATE:

For the last week or so the tranny was shifting flawlessly and smoother after a
triple flush (at 50k mi, 1st flush, a double was at about 30k).

TILL THIS AM! After a mile of driving the thing slipped completely out of gear
as if it went into neutral. RPM's went to about 3.5K under light throttle and
as soon as I let up on the throttle it slid into 3rd gear.

After that, flawless shifts again and cannot reproduce it anymore. It's been a month
since the last slip.

I don't trust this thing anymore.

/Steve

fla-tls

Doing a fluid change on a tranny that's on it's way out is one of the worst things you can do to it.

My parent tranny corp. (not my shop) has had reports of customers DEMANDING a fluid change - even when it was initially refused. In the one incident I'm referring to, their car didn't make it out of the parking lot without failing (as I recall - it didn't make it out of the bay).

Most shops will make you write a small waiver of liability on the receipt if you demand a fluid change on a tranny with internal problems.

snowman81

I have also noticed this, but the G35's do the same thing. Feels like the tranny is slowing down the car up until a certain point and then it feels like you pushed the clutch in, as if it were a standard. Not necessarily a bad thing, but I agree it can get annoying sometimes.

vinovelo

Hmm... I appreciate your post but fail to see the logic.

If the tranny begins to get gumed up because of particles from the clutch
packs breaking off (due to heat) I can't see how changing the fluid would
do any harm. It may not cure the probem but it seems as though it could
at least clean up the internals a bit and make it last a little longer even if
it was doomed to fail.

Why did this shop NOT want to change the fluid?

/Steve

vinovelo

Very interesting! I also was told that from someone else with regard to a
Mercedes model.

/Steve

fla-tls

I'm currently sitting about 20 feet from a Lincoln Continental that we towed in yesterday. They had some routine maintenance done at the dealership, and the dealer recommended a tranny flush. The vehicle has a little over 100k miles on it and had never had the tranny fluid changed.

After the service the vehicle didn't make it more than a few miles before it broke down. We don't know what's wrong with it yet (currently pulling it out), but the torque converter sounds stripped.

We also got a Honda Passport in today that had a fluid change about a month or two ago. At that time the fluid was dark and smelled burnt. We recommended against the fluid change but the customer insisted. He's back for an overhaul...

I don't know the science behind it, but I guarantee it's true. Don't change your fluid if the tranny's acting up. You may get lucky and experience no problems - but you'll probably end up at my shop (or one like mine) within a month or two.

fla-tls

UPDATE - The cause of the failure on that Continental was that all of the crud built up in the tranny clogged the cooler during the flush. The tranny failed because of lack of cooling. That's a

Even though we don't have external coolers this would still pertain to our transmissions since we have a non-serviceable strainer in the transmission that could get clogged.