Is the repair shop trying to rip me off???
01-03-2014, 08:21 AM
#41
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Hey Cant_TL_me_nothing, so today is Friday and you had arranged having your TL towed from Tireman to the Acura dealership today @ 7am......Good Luck !!!
Chances are slim that the service writer will be able to give ya any procedural details concerning your car's diagnostics other than to tell ya to have a seat in the lounge room while the assigned technician checks out the basics.
For anything of particular personal concern, you will need to fully inform the dealership's service manager of the previous circumstances and then request any special tests relevant to the hydrolocking or electrical system. These guys don't like to be told how to do their job, so be tactful about things.
Chances are slim that the service writer will be able to give ya any procedural details concerning your car's diagnostics other than to tell ya to have a seat in the lounge room while the assigned technician checks out the basics.
For anything of particular personal concern, you will need to fully inform the dealership's service manager of the previous circumstances and then request any special tests relevant to the hydrolocking or electrical system. These guys don't like to be told how to do their job, so be tactful about things.
01-03-2014, 08:45 AM
#42
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I didn't get too much information out of them so far, but i talked to a guy who didn't work with the car. "From my understanding it is hydrolocked, we did get it to start but there is a hard knock. Brandon worked on the vehicle but he wont be in until ten you can call back then and ask for him" Also when we called Tireman to let them know the tow truck was coming to tow it to safety they also chimed in with "let us know if you want to fix it or sell it"
01-03-2014, 09:59 AM
#43
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This is what i got from the guys at tireman, after speaking with them on the phone. From what they said there was no oil pressure in the system. Perhaps it was enough water to temporarily lock up the engine. it could restart but it did not sound nice and would do damage that is irreversible. Our guy was going to remove the timing cover but you could tell by the sound that it would just be needing a new engine. Tearing it down and identifiying the problem just to tell you that you need a new engine would become too costly with labor. It would just be much cheaper to get a new engine. I told your father it wont be a cheap fix but it can be done." Any thoughts?
01-03-2014, 10:41 AM
#44
Racer
If it had no oil pressure, the oil light would have lit up for sure. You seem like someone who takes care of their stuff, so I doubt you would have missed a big red oil light on your dash. Again with the water story, eh? The question remains, where would it have come from? We are yet to come up with a plausible answer. If there is bad knocking while the engine is running, chances are irreversible damage has already been done.
The last part seems correct, though. When you hear bottom end knock like that it is almost a sure thing that the engine is toast, and to tear the whole thing down could have cost an arm and a leg. If it sounded fine after you tried to restart it at the traffic light and can prove the guys at Tireman damaged your engine, I would lawyer up and take them to court for sure.
The last part seems correct, though. When you hear bottom end knock like that it is almost a sure thing that the engine is toast, and to tear the whole thing down could have cost an arm and a leg. If it sounded fine after you tried to restart it at the traffic light and can prove the guys at Tireman damaged your engine, I would lawyer up and take them to court for sure.
Last edited by Yikes; 01-03-2014 at 10:46 AM.
01-03-2014, 12:20 PM
#46
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If it had no oil pressure, the oil light would have lit up for sure. You seem like someone who takes care of their stuff, so I doubt you would have missed a big red oil light on your dash. Again with the water story, eh? The question remains, where would it have come from? We are yet to come up with a plausible answer. If there is bad knocking while the engine is running, chances are irreversible damage has already been done.
The last part seems correct, though. When you hear bottom end knock like that it is almost a sure thing that the engine is toast, and to tear the whole thing down could have cost an arm and a leg. If it sounded fine after you tried to restart it at the traffic light and can prove the guys at Tireman damaged your engine, I would lawyer up and take them to court for sure.
The last part seems correct, though. When you hear bottom end knock like that it is almost a sure thing that the engine is toast, and to tear the whole thing down could have cost an arm and a leg. If it sounded fine after you tried to restart it at the traffic light and can prove the guys at Tireman damaged your engine, I would lawyer up and take them to court for sure.
They did not give me a definite answer at all. And they weren't even sure on the procedures for diagnosis besides listening for a sound. And they never told me if they found evidence of water or coolant in the engine or oil pan...
I know for a fact that when i restarted the car before it died again it made no out of the ordinary sounds... it started as if it was running normally and then died once i relieved some pressure off of the brake in an attempt to see if it was ok. No knocks, no loud noises, truthfully there were not even any lights that came on once i restarted the engine until it died again.
The first time it died immediately oil, brake, and engine lights came on. Upon restarting and dying again the oil, brake, and engine lights came on followed by everything else and flickering and dimming of lights, clicking from door locks, etc...
Yody they just told me they checked oil pressure and there was not any pressure. Not really sure past them just telling me.
01-03-2014, 12:47 PM
#47
Racer
If you had run the car out of oil, or it had no oil pressure (Which you didn't because the oil light would have come on) and the bottom end got so hot that the rod bearings melted together, upon attempting to restart it you would have heard one of two things:
1) If it could even turn over at all it would have sounded very weak / the starter is having a really hard time
2) (The more likely of the two) You would have heard a single click when attempting to engage the starter.
That having been said, you would have for sure heard the engine knock before you would have gotten to that point. So it is almost certain that this can be ruled out completely.
I still say it's electrical and that these guys damaged your car or just don't know what they're on about. Here is what happens when the ignition switch goes bad:
"The classic symptoms are a Honda that stalls while driving or starts and dies when trying to start the engine"
1) If it could even turn over at all it would have sounded very weak / the starter is having a really hard time
2) (The more likely of the two) You would have heard a single click when attempting to engage the starter.
That having been said, you would have for sure heard the engine knock before you would have gotten to that point. So it is almost certain that this can be ruled out completely.
I still say it's electrical and that these guys damaged your car or just don't know what they're on about. Here is what happens when the ignition switch goes bad:
"The classic symptoms are a Honda that stalls while driving or starts and dies when trying to start the engine"
Last edited by Yikes; 01-03-2014 at 12:51 PM.
01-03-2014, 01:24 PM
#48
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I check my oil regularly and got it changed over thanksgiving break. And i didn't hear either of the two things. When I restarted the engine.
I really hope they didn't damage my car. And thanks for the video and input, the ignition switch does sound like a likely situation but would that cause the lights and everything else to dim and begin to go out?
But I do have the stalling, the slightly longer crank to start. It never took me more than one crank but as said before it did take 6-7 seconds to start, but that could just be because it's so cold...
Also i got off the phone with the dealership not too long ago and they said they got the car to start as well. But he said it does run and it doesn't sound too bad. It does have a knock. They still have to get it in the shop to diagnose the problem but he thinks it didn't sound as bad as tireman was making it seem, although it is running a little rough.
I really hope they didn't damage my car. And thanks for the video and input, the ignition switch does sound like a likely situation but would that cause the lights and everything else to dim and begin to go out?
But I do have the stalling, the slightly longer crank to start. It never took me more than one crank but as said before it did take 6-7 seconds to start, but that could just be because it's so cold...
Also i got off the phone with the dealership not too long ago and they said they got the car to start as well. But he said it does run and it doesn't sound too bad. It does have a knock. They still have to get it in the shop to diagnose the problem but he thinks it didn't sound as bad as tireman was making it seem, although it is running a little rough.
01-03-2014, 02:36 PM
#49
Mr.Helpful Diagram
Check you fuel pressure regulator! I've seen them go bad on GM cars a lot, when damaged they let in a bunch of fuel into the intake causing a misfire then end up hydro locking the cylinder near the vacuum hose for the regulator. Not saying that it is that but its a possibility.
To check it unplug the vacuum hose from the intake, if it throws out fuel theres the problem. With the key on engine off the pump will prime for 3 seconds, now pull the hose off slowly and see, If Bad you need a new Fuel pressure regulator.
Does it smell like fuel around the car or inside the engine bay ?
To check it unplug the vacuum hose from the intake, if it throws out fuel theres the problem. With the key on engine off the pump will prime for 3 seconds, now pull the hose off slowly and see, If Bad you need a new Fuel pressure regulator.
Does it smell like fuel around the car or inside the engine bay ?
01-03-2014, 02:49 PM
#50
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Check you fuel pressure regulator! I've seen them go bad on GM cars a lot, when damaged they let in a bunch of fuel into the intake causing a misfire then end up hydro locking the cylinder near the vacuum hose for the regulator. Not saying that it is that but its a possibility.
To check it unplug the vacuum hose from the intake, if it throws out fuel theres the problem. With the key on engine off the pump will prime for 3 seconds, now pull the hose off slowly and see, If Bad you need a new Fuel pressure regulator.
Does it smell like fuel around the car or inside the engine bay ?
To check it unplug the vacuum hose from the intake, if it throws out fuel theres the problem. With the key on engine off the pump will prime for 3 seconds, now pull the hose off slowly and see, If Bad you need a new Fuel pressure regulator.
Does it smell like fuel around the car or inside the engine bay ?
01-03-2014, 02:50 PM
#51
Hmm so the plot thickens, so the shop wasn't completely full of it, hydrolock story still sounds ridiculouos. If its a knock from top end it could be an intermmitent stuck valve, slipped timing belt and subsequent bent valve, (seen this happen before). If its bottom end you're screwed. Either way I doubt it was from CAI hydrolocking, lol.
01-03-2014, 03:03 PM
#52
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Well right now I'm really hoping for the timing belt or better yet something electrical. I found it very hard to believe that the CAI could play any part in the issue... Water doesn't just sit in a engine until it locks up days later. If there is water in it, it would evaporate due to heat or lock it up immediately. I could understand if there was a 1ft deep pool of water behind my car at the light but there was nothing, absolutely dry. Still waiting to get a call back from the dealer, they said I would hear back today.
01-03-2014, 03:17 PM
#53
There's more than one possibility for an engine to stall. If the car had been properly maintained, was taken good care and was showing no signs of mechanical distress prior to the car dying......then with all the recent cold weather taxing the electrical system, a logical thing to check would be performing a load test of the electrical charging/starting components. Simple enough thing to rule out as the culprit.
Was the "CEL" light on and if so, were the codes read at any point ? Misfiring coils or fuel system problems can cause poor startup and rough running of an engine, sometimes electrical in nature. Normally mechanical issues show some type of forewarning signs, which you apparently had none experienced previously.
If it was indeed hydrolocked, evidence should have been apparent within the plug's ports and oil, verified by checking cylinder compression. Was the T-belt ever changed at 105k ?
Was the "CEL" light on and if so, were the codes read at any point ? Misfiring coils or fuel system problems can cause poor startup and rough running of an engine, sometimes electrical in nature. Normally mechanical issues show some type of forewarning signs, which you apparently had none experienced previously.
If it was indeed hydrolocked, evidence should have been apparent within the plug's ports and oil, verified by checking cylinder compression. Was the T-belt ever changed at 105k ?
01-03-2014, 03:56 PM
#54
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There's more than one possibility for an engine to stall. If the car had been properly maintained, was taken good care and was showing no signs of mechanical distress prior to the car dying......then with all the recent cold weather taxing the electrical system, a logical thing to check would be performing a load test of the electrical charging/starting components. Simple enough thing to rule out as the culprit.
Was the "CEL" light on and if so, were the codes read at any point ? Misfiring coils or fuel system problems can cause poor startup and rough running of an engine, sometimes electrical in nature. Normally mechanical issues show some type of forewarning signs, which you apparently had none experienced previously.
If it was indeed hydrolocked, evidence should have been apparent within the plug's ports and oil, verified by checking cylinder compression. Was the T-belt ever changed at 105k ?
Was the "CEL" light on and if so, were the codes read at any point ? Misfiring coils or fuel system problems can cause poor startup and rough running of an engine, sometimes electrical in nature. Normally mechanical issues show some type of forewarning signs, which you apparently had none experienced previously.
If it was indeed hydrolocked, evidence should have been apparent within the plug's ports and oil, verified by checking cylinder compression. Was the T-belt ever changed at 105k ?
The CEL light was not on when the incident happened... Now? I'm not entirely sure. But the picture in my other post above shows the entire gauge cluster 10-15 minutes prior to the incident when I was leaving home. Nothing out of the ordinary.
This was an event that was very much without warning.
01-03-2014, 04:22 PM
#55
I truly hope the Acura techs get to the bottom of this. No one likes hearing stories about people being stuck without their car. Here is my experience with the original post.
I had an actual hydrolock situation due to a CAI on a Civic I once owned. There was a dip in the road and she was totally submerged. Long story short, we pushed the car to my garage, took out all of the plugs and turned the engine using the crank pulley bolt. Water flew from each plug hole. Once the water was out, changed the oil and removed the breather box from the back of the engine and tried to start the car. Lucky for me, the car was fine. Changed the oil again and the car/motor lasted another 6 years before I sold it.
Lets hope for the best with your situation.
I had an actual hydrolock situation due to a CAI on a Civic I once owned. There was a dip in the road and she was totally submerged. Long story short, we pushed the car to my garage, took out all of the plugs and turned the engine using the crank pulley bolt. Water flew from each plug hole. Once the water was out, changed the oil and removed the breather box from the back of the engine and tried to start the car. Lucky for me, the car was fine. Changed the oil again and the car/motor lasted another 6 years before I sold it.
Lets hope for the best with your situation.
01-03-2014, 09:00 PM
#57
Dealer's diagnosis.....?
Also i got off the phone with the dealership not too long ago and they said they got the car to start as well. But he said it does run and it doesn't sound too bad. It does have a knock. They still have to get it in the shop to diagnose the problem but he thinks it didn't sound as bad as tireman was making it seem, although it is running a little rough.
So, we know that you're still patiently awaiting a followup call from the dealership, IMO.....if it was a simple fix, they would've wanted your confirmation to proceed with the necessary work to do that fix asap.
Sure hope the news isn't too bad !!! They may be making ya an offer to trade the car into something newer. 
01-03-2014, 09:24 PM
#58
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No phone call today, i guess things around service got busy... I'll call tomorrow morning. hopefully they got it inside today when I called them around 2 they said it would be an hour or less until they could get it inside and have someone looking at it. I hope its good news as well.
01-04-2014, 09:04 AM
#59
Hey man, it's Saturday and most dealerships will normally only keep their service dept. open for half day, so it looks like ya may end up waiting until next week for any real verdict or repairs.
Patience is the key at this point in time, but it still sucks not to know what's going on. Oh, the pain !!!
Patience is the key at this point in time, but it still sucks not to know what's going on. Oh, the pain !!!
01-04-2014, 05:25 PM
#60
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No real verdict yet, but the dealership is completely ruling out Tireman's diagnosis of hydrolock. They went out to the car and it started up right away, the fourth time its started since the incident, and they said it runs smoothly although there is a little bit of a knock. The tech i spoke with said there is not enough evidence there to condemn my engine. So there is the bit of good news, still have to get a tech to thoroughly go through it on Monday.
01-06-2014, 05:28 PM
#61
Well, they sometimes say that "No news is good news."
I don't think that's always true, as in your case....the dealership should make an attempt to update you on the diagnosis in a timely manner.
I don't think that's always true, as in your case....the dealership should make an attempt to update you on the diagnosis in a timely manner.
01-06-2014, 05:54 PM
#62
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Well considering my luck its understandable why this situation hasn't been resolved. Car broke down just before the new year, no service new year day due to everything being closed, snow storm last thursday that kept my car from getting towed to the dealership, car finally towed on Friday but didn't get much attention, Saturday was a half day for service, closed Sunday, Extreme amounts of snow Sunday-Monday, +15 inches, and record low temps caused a level 3 snow emergency so no news today since the dealership wasn't open. Hopefully since my area got downgraded to a level 2 I'll be hearing something tomorrow... I just really hope this is all taken care of before I head back to school this weekend.
01-06-2014, 07:57 PM
#63
Sorry to hear what you're going through man. I went through school with similar situations with vehicles going on and at times I was stuck on holidays trying to figure out how to juggle them all. My luck is pretty bad but I pulled through.
As hard as it is to hear/read, patience is what got me through. Let's hope they find and fix the issue before you have to go back.
As hard as it is to hear/read, patience is what got me through. Let's hope they find and fix the issue before you have to go back.
01-07-2014, 04:50 PM
#64
The suspense of not knowing.....
No real verdict yet, but the dealership is completely ruling out Tireman's diagnosis of hydrolock.
They went out to the car and it started up right away, the fourth time its started since the incident, and they said it runs smoothly although there is a little bit of a knock.
They went out to the car and it started up right away, the fourth time its started since the incident, and they said it runs smoothly although there is a little bit of a knock.
Well, it looks like the cold snap is about to end by Wednesday.....so with a little bit of luck, ya may be fixed up by the weekend.Maybe the old gal ("TL") just needed a break during your time off school to rest up.
Hopefully all will be well soon !!!
01-07-2014, 06:54 PM
#66
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Being fixed by the weekend is what I'm hoping for, we were downgraded to a level 2 snow emergency yesterday but by the time the morning rolled around a level three was reinstated... So the dealership wasn't open today either.
I've used nothing but 93 octane ever since i got the car.
Just wondering that isn't relevant to your problem, but what octane do you use?
01-08-2014, 08:19 AM
#67
Hopefully the dealership has a reserved time allotment for your car's diagnostic once they reopen. Maybe put ya on the backburner if swamped.
You're kinda at the dealer's mercy with time and actual repair costs as the ticking clock dwindles down to the weekend and getting your car back.
You're kinda at the dealer's mercy with time and actual repair costs as the ticking clock dwindles down to the weekend and getting your car back.
01-08-2014, 01:07 PM
#68
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Well the verdict is back from the dealership, the engine is somehow seized up. Not at all caused by hydrolock, but they did confirm that it is lacking oil pressure and that its definitely something internal Not sure if anything could have been done to prevent this from happening, as there were no warning signs. It's a really crappy situation. Now I'm going to have to start the search for a engine. The dealership has me quoted for 2950 but i'm sure I can beat that. Any suggestions from here?
01-08-2014, 02:07 PM
#70
Seized motor .....?
=cant_TL_me_nothing;14815441....... but the dealership is completely ruling out Tireman's diagnosis of hydrolock.
They went out to the car and it started up right away, the fourth time its started since the incident, and they said it runs smoothly although there is a little bit of a knock.
The tech i spoke with said there is not enough evidence there to condemn my engine.
They went out to the car and it started up right away, the fourth time its started since the incident, and they said it runs smoothly although there is a little bit of a knock.
The tech i spoke with said there is not enough evidence there to condemn my engine.
Hmm, a lack of oil pressure could potentially cause internal damage to a motor. But, normally some signs or issues of distress would be noticed prior to the time that the situation originally happened and the car suddenly died on ya without any prior warning. Was the dealership's quote for a remanufactured motor or new ? Was your old motor's damage on the top or bottom end ? What checks were performed to come to the "seized" analysis ? Our motor's are the strongest part of the car, there are plenty of good used ones available for well less than $1000.
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01-08-2014, 02:47 PM
#73
Yeah, these guys are spot on !
This is your golden open door of opportunity to upgrade your TL to endure many future years of fun sporty driving pleasure.
$3000 and the single best investment that you could make right now. Buy a $1000 beater in the meantime to get ya by.
This is your golden open door of opportunity to upgrade your TL to endure many future years of fun sporty driving pleasure.
$3000 and the single best investment that you could make right now. Buy a $1000 beater in the meantime to get ya by.
01-08-2014, 03:01 PM
#74
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Hmm, a lack of oil pressure could potentially cause internal damage to a motor. But, normally some signs or issues of distress would be noticed prior to the time that the situation originally happened and the car suddenly died on ya without any prior warning. Was the dealership's quote for a remanufactured motor or new ? Was your old motor's damage on the top or bottom end ? What checks were performed to come to the "seized" analysis ? Our motor's are the strongest part of the car, there are plenty of good used ones available for well less than $1000.
01-08-2014, 03:06 PM
#75
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As much as I would love to do the 6 speed swap, I just don't have the money or time to take on that kind of project right now. Ugh.... the life of a college student.
01-08-2014, 03:41 PM
#76
Mr.Helpful Diagram
Look around I got mine in NJ for $400 flat 6month warranty, It had 100k on it still running today. I didn't have a problem with it having 100k since these engines are reliable.
Tip : Make sure you change the rear main seal while the engine is still out, if you decide to go for a used one.
Tip : Make sure you change the rear main seal while the engine is still out, if you decide to go for a used one.
01-08-2014, 04:31 PM
#77
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I called around to a few salvage yards and here are three quotes i got for an engine:
Dealership: $2950 Not sure if new or remanufactured engine
Tireman: $1900
Salvage yard 1: 72k $600w/exchange
Salvage yard 2: 89k $588.50, $100 rebate when I hand over old engine. Also mentioned that they have a mechanic who can install as well for $650 I just have to bring fluids. $1138.50 Total
Salvage yard 3: 80K $650
Dealership: $2950 Not sure if new or remanufactured engine
Tireman: $1900
Salvage yard 1: 72k $600w/exchange
Salvage yard 2: 89k $588.50, $100 rebate when I hand over old engine. Also mentioned that they have a mechanic who can install as well for $650 I just have to bring fluids. $1138.50 Total
Salvage yard 3: 80K $650
01-08-2014, 04:33 PM
#78
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Look around I got mine in NJ for $400 flat 6month warranty, It had 100k on it still running today. I didn't have a problem with it having 100k since these engines are reliable.
Tip : Make sure you change the rear main seal while the engine is still out, if you decide to go for a used one.
Tip : Make sure you change the rear main seal while the engine is still out, if you decide to go for a used one.
01-08-2014, 04:40 PM
#79
Safety Car
I called around to a few salvage yards and here are three quotes i got for an engine:
Dealership: $2950 Not sure if new or remanufactured engine
Tireman: $1900
Salvage yard 1: 72k $600w/exchange
Salvage yard 2: 89k $588.50, $100 rebate when I hand over old engine. Also mentioned that they have a mechanic who can install as well for $650 I just have to bring fluids. $1138.50 Total
Salvage yard 3: 80K $650
Dealership: $2950 Not sure if new or remanufactured engine
Tireman: $1900
Salvage yard 1: 72k $600w/exchange
Salvage yard 2: 89k $588.50, $100 rebate when I hand over old engine. Also mentioned that they have a mechanic who can install as well for $650 I just have to bring fluids. $1138.50 Total
Salvage yard 3: 80K $650
Salvage yard #2 wins.
About 1200.00 with fluids. Not Bad. Just get some info about the donor car like did it have front, rear, or side damage. And is he giving you a warranty?
01-08-2014, 04:53 PM
#80
Yeah, it's gonna be your quickest way to get back on the road at this point.
Look the donor car over if available and talk to the installing mechanic to get a feel for how they warranty their work and the motor. Is your existing tranny in good shape.....if not, they may be able to cut ya a deal on the lower mileage one at the time of replacing the motor.
Look the donor car over if available and talk to the installing mechanic to get a feel for how they warranty their work and the motor. Is your existing tranny in good shape.....if not, they may be able to cut ya a deal on the lower mileage one at the time of replacing the motor.