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Just a little bit about myslef... I am teacher in Virginia with 3 kids... I currently drive an 89 Celica GTS but heavily considering getting an 02 TL-S from my co-teacher... problem is, it will need a tranny swap... I've read about the AV6 swap and most related stuff with the tranny swap...
I may be able to get the car for $500 or maybe little less... in the end, after swapping the AV6, I am estimating to shell out between 2k to 2.5k for the car and fixes it needs... now, do you guys feel that it is a reasonable price tag??? What other PM should I consider besides the tranny... timing belt (not sure if it uses a chain), any gasket or seals that should be addressed, or other components that should be changed at this age???
Also, can anyone speak about the reliabilty of the AV6 transmission? I know buying a tranny from the yard poses a risk, and buying a rebuilt AV6 has a hefty price tag... I am hoping to get at least 3-4 years out of the car as a DD since my commute is only 20 miles rt from my work to home... plus the fact that my 3 kids will likely be riding in it so I want to make sure it gets me to point A/B without much to worry...
First of all let me say that price is a STEAL if it gets you the AV6 Installed..
These cars should cost around 4000-5000 bucks if it wasn't for the transmission issues so once you put in the AV6 in the car becomes golden.
Now to your concerns.. First let me tell you that 4-5 years on a regular trans is nothing... That is what I would expect from a regular faulty B7WA (Our stock transmission) so the AV6 should last the lifetime of the car, You are getting more than 5 years guaranteed out of it.
Regarding other things. Timing Belt (It uses a Belt) or aka "105K Service" is important it secures the life of the engine. Regardless of mileage if you don't know the service records you should do that. The car itself is incredibly reliable, No engine issues, No electrical issues, AV6 is the only thing that it needed to become pretty much bulletproof you can rely on it no problem.
Remember to change these out too with the AV6 Swap:
1.- Diff output seals
2.- Trans input seal
3.- Engine rear main seal
4.- New transmission filter (Spin off for the TL-S)
5.- 10q for full transmission ATF DW-1 change (It uses around 9q) but they sell a box with 10 for cheap.
How many miles on the car? Does your co teacher have records? Timing belt gets done every 105k miles. If the car is in overall decent shape, for $500 you probably can't go too wrong. It's an older car now so you probably would have to factor in some other basic maintenance items but the AV6 from what I understand is much more durable than the TL trans as it has internal modifications that resolved the issues the TL trans has. I had an AV6 trans swapped in about 2k miles ago and it is quite a difference in driving experience. The car is quicker, shifts much crisper and more firmly. If you can source a low mileage AV6 that has clean fluid in it that's about all you can do and it probably would be a safe bet.
I've only seen the car once from a far when my co-teacher drove it some time ago... i don't have a thorough idea of the interior condition, nor have conducted an in depth inspection of the exterior/body condition. Hopefully it is rust free and does not have any electrical gremlins... afaik, the mileage is around 105000... i will ask for any service records so i can review what has been done in the past... i believe this is a single owner car... as a matter of fact, it was owned by my co-teacher's in-laws since it was new and they assumed ownership after their passing last year... so really, the car has not been driven much by them since... apparently, the car would still run but there is a growing concern over the tranny slipping intermittently... I am planning on looking at the car itself this weekend...
I will let you guys know for sure...
One thing i dont fully understand is about the filter between the TL tranny and the AV6... not sure what it means that the TL is a spinoff type while the AV6 one is not???
The timing belt will cost $700-$1000 parts included (water pump, pullies, and belts). So be sure to ask if it's been done or not.
Given your situation with your 3 children I would recommend taking the safe route an have it rebuilt at a shop that specializes in Honda transmissions. That way you'll have a peace of mind with a warranty, depending how much you pay the warranty can go up to 3 years/36,000 miles. Then the car will last you easily 4/5 years.
When you check out the car see if it idles rough (steering wheels shakes)? If it does but the engine runs smooth then you should change the engine mounts (all) while the trans is being replaced. The labor to install the mounts will be at a minimum if not at no charge to you.
Trans filters
AV6- Is a canister type, similar to an air filter on a lawn mower but full of oil of course.
Tl filter- spin on. Similar to a engine oil filter but a miniature version with a fitting on the top. See pic.
Thanks for the clarification... I asked my brother who has a friend that is master tech for acura in Phoenix... he asked about the AV6 swap and apparently, his friend tha the AV6 tranny has its own issues... but then again, it seems that majority of members in the forum would rather go that route instead of rebuilding or getting a reman tranny from the TL...
The car apparently still runs, but slips more after the car warms up and does not bite instantly when put into reverse...
That is weird.. Every trans shop I asked said the AV6 had a significant lower rebuild rate that the B7WA.
In fact I searched through the Accord forums and there were very few members with slipping transmissions so the ratio could mean low maintenance in most of the cases.. You can baby the B7WA all you want and it will still die the moment you least expect it..
Yeah, not sure about the context of their comversation.... it doesn't mean that a master tech for acura is familiar with the swap anyway... and not sure if he was referring to a 2.4 or 3.0 tranny... i guess the determining factor will be the overall mechanical, epectrical, interior and exterior condition of the car..
^ Yeah! The Late 6th and early 7th generation Accords were all plagued with transmission issues exactly like the TL.
All cars that were affected by first gen 5 Speed Autos:
TL-p (2nd Gen Specially, Early 3rd Gens)
TL-S (2nd Gen)
Accord Coupe (Late 6th, Early 7th)
Accord Sedan (Late 6th, Early 7th)
MDX (Early 1st Gen)
Pilot (Early 1st Gen)
Odyssey (2nd Gen)
Sadly the MDX and Pilot are all screwed since there is no possible swap available due to the Transfer Case.
Just an update... I finally saw the car in person... and drove it around for a short period around the block... Cosmetically, the car seems to be in better condition for a 14+ y/o car... Here is some of my good and not so good (which I think is very minor)
Not so good -
Yellowing of headlights
Rear Passenger interior door handles (the one you pull on to close the door) is starting to bulge/seperate
Dings and some dents here and there
Some surface corrosion (probably due to road salt) in the engine compartment
Black trim around the windows are faded
CEL light on
I find it odd that there is rust/corrosion where the driver seat is bolted on the floor... not sure if there water leak somewhere, but the car did not smell moldy.. other than this, I did not find any other sign of water damage in the car...
The good -
Leather interior in mint shape - no tears whatsoever
All bells and whistles work - Auto AC, windows, power seats, etc
New brake job
New front struts
Newer tires
Original paint is in decent shape, no clear coat peel
As I drove it around, the tranny seemed to be engaging as it should, but then again, the car was only driven for less than a mile and has not fully warmed up... Owner said the slipping of gears likely happens when the car has warmed up and has been driven after a while... Ride was smooth and the engine was pulling hard when I stepped on the pedal... Could the CEL light be coming on from the tranny or could there be another cause for it to light up? Owner said he does not know what the code is/are, but only remember seeing it after he felt that the tranny has started to slip...
I have a stack of records to sift through from it was bought new by his dad, until it was transferred to him 3 years ago... According to him, he had all brakes done, and bought new tires, and replaced the front struts... I have yet to verify that but I do hope to see a record of it...
As for the timing belt, he said his dad, apparently, had it done prematurely at around 70k miles... I am hoping to find the record of that in the stack I have... If it was indeed, done, then at least that is something less to worry about... I have not committed in buying the car as I need to have a close ballpark on how much in all I will be shelling out on top of the car's price...
I am considering buying a reman/rebuilt AV6 tranny instead of using one from the yard, but will it still carry the warranty if it is used in a different car?
Any advice is appreciated... I told my wife to take some pics but unfortunately, she did not... The car, I believe is silver streak metallic color, and the interior is black...
My bad.. color is Satin Silver... not silver streak...
Also, do you guys know any reputable supplier for a reman tranny online so I can have an idea of how much to budget...?
Your negatives are pretty common. As long as the subframe isn't rusted badly. Funny enough, I have a little corrosion on my driver's seat mounting. I had a leak from the A pillar down to floor so may have been from that. Black trim around windows fading is also common. Mine are as well. CEL I assume is from the trans- hopefully nothing else as well. Be good if you had a code reader- you can get a basic one pretty cheaply. Yellow headlights also common. A restoration kit gets them looking new again..well for a few months anyways. You mentioned the tbelt done at 70k but how many miles does the car have now?
Silver is a good color for holding up over time. As long as no body cancer. Black leather is nice. AV6 to me is the way to go but you may not get much of a warranty for a used one from a yard. But it would probably be a pretty safe gamble buying a used one of it has relatively low miles and fluid in it looks good. Look on car-part.com for ised ones from local yards..
If the original tranny fluid is in there, a drain and fill procedure, done 3 times in a row with some driving in between, might just cure the slipping and buy you some time. Only use genuine Honda ATF. The CEL could be from a clogged EGR valve passage. Easy enough to clean yourself if you can watch a video of the intake manifold removal. Have the codes checked.
The car has little less than 105000 as we speak... I was not able to look under the car but I did not see any rust spots on the wheel well or any other surface on the car... You mentioned a leak in the A-pillar, is this something I should be weary of?
I am thinkinf of going the AV6 route as well, but just not sure if I should go all the way in getting a reman AV6 or just a used one... If this was a 6sp M/T, then the yard is the way to go... I did look at car-part.com and there's some ranging from 650-1k+...
I just saw a DIY fix for the interior door handle separation so that's assuring... My friend who has a shop is discouraging me from buying a used AV6 and wants me to consider a reman for warranty purposes...
I will let you guys know what I find out after I go through the service papers I have...
105k miles is nothing for these cars. $500 is a no brainer. IDK but I think if you get an AV6 used with around 75k miles or less you should be ok but I can understand bring unsure. Mine had 68k and was $775 and shifts 100%.
My leak was likely due to a poor sealing of a new windshield. So not likely too common
Here's some list of work that were done previously that I would consider major and the corresponding mileage when it was done... most oil and lube was done at the dealership... tranny jet oil kit was done around 44k miles but not tranny was not replaced...
mind that the car is at 105000 currently -
103,417 - front struts replaced, front brake rotor resurface
100,383 - replace rear left brake caliper and rear pads, bleed brake
91,449 - replace front/rear brake rotors and pads
80,211 - new set of tires
66,220 - BG PS flush, BG Tranny flush (note the the owner was complaining about some shifting concerns, and dealership recommended the tranny flush)
61,667 - timing belt and water pump
59,005 - front motor mount per owner request
52,421 - lower ball joints replaced
At this point, what other factors should I be aware of? Any other major maintenance that I need to consider in the near future? At least the timing belt has been done so that's a big thing... brakes and tires are fairly new...
Should I even try the 3x3 flush and fill or just go and replace the tranny since that's where it is leading anyway... I don't think I will be driving this car knowing that the tranny is about to fail...
Just an update... I finally saw the car in person... and drove it around for a short period around the block... Cosmetically, the car seems to be in better condition for a 14+ y/o car... Here is some of my good and not so good (which I think is very minor)
Not so good -
Yellowing of headlights This is normal
Rear Passenger interior door handles (the one you pull on to close the door) This is normal is starting to bulge/seperate
Dings and some dents here and there
Some surface corrosion (probably due to road salt) in the engine compartment
Black trim around the windows are faded
CEL light on This can be anything
I find it odd that there is rust/corrosion where the driver seat is bolted on the floor... not sure if there water leak somewhere, but the car did not smell moldy.. other than this, I did not find any other sign of water damage in the car...
The good -
Leather interior in mint shape - no tears whatsoever
All bells and whistles work - Auto AC, windows, power seats, etc
New brake job
New front struts
Newer tires
Original paint is in decent shape, no clear coat peel
As I drove it around, the tranny seemed to be engaging as it should, but then again, the car was only driven for less than a mile and has not fully warmed up... Owner said the slipping of gears likely happens when the car has warmed up and has been driven after a while... Ride was smooth and the engine was pulling hard when I stepped on the pedal... Could the CEL light be coming on from the tranny or could there be another cause for it to light up? Owner said he does not know what the code is/are, but only remember seeing it after he felt that the tranny has started to slip... Usually when the trans is going out it will pop a P0740 which is "Torque Converter Solenoid A/B" which usually means the trans is on its way out
I have a stack of records to sift through from it was bought new by his dad, until it was transferred to him 3 years ago... According to him, he had all brakes done, and bought new tires, and replaced the front struts... I have yet to verify that but I do hope to see a record of it...
As for the timing belt, he said his dad, apparently, had it done prematurely at around 70k miles... I am hoping to find the record of that in the stack I have... If it was indeed, done, then at least that is something less to worry about... I have not committed in buying the car as I need to have a close ballpark on how much in all I will be shelling out on top of the car's price... This is normal as in some cases the first Timing Belt procedure happens at around 60K, Second one is at 105K then its at 210K so even if it had a belt done at 60K it needs to be done again at 105K as per the recommended intervals.
I am considering buying a reman/rebuilt AV6 tranny instead of using one from the yard, but will it still carry the warranty if it is used in a different car? Nope, Don't even dare to mention that its going in a different car. Even then its not recommended to buy a remano trans for this swap as the shop will use any pretext to deny you warranty since its going into a different car. If in doubt ask first before buying...
Any advice is appreciated... I told my wife to take some pics but unfortunately, she did not... The car, I believe is silver streak metallic color, and the interior is black...
You shouldn't need to worry about the TB again for a while. It should be good until about 165k.
Yeah - don't mention its going into a TL. Just another accord
If you can get the car with the swap at 2.5K tops it will be the deal of the universe... You wont get another car for that money with the same power to weight ratio. If you dont care for performance save the money for an econobox or something else.
If you can get the car with the swap at 2.5K tops it will be the deal of the universe... You wont get another car for that money with the same power to weight ratio. If you dont care for performance save the money for an econobox or something else.
I think that's doable... with labor estimated to be no more than 1k, a used tranny for another 1k or less, 2.5k is within range...
I am still scouring to check if I can get a rebuilt AV6 tranny... but then again, if and so, it gives prematurely, the warranty may be voided since it is going to a different car... urgh!!! Decisions, decisions...
Is there any data or stats of the odds of using a tranny from the yard is, indeed, a safe gamble?
Any yard should give a warranty anyway... I got mine with a month of warranty, Though that month passed about 4 years ago. Try to get the trans still in the car that guarantees the trans was working when the car got into a crash or w/e..
I got mine from a 3/4th front end collision, The passenger headlight was gone and the car was crushed from that side but the undercarriage and the trans was untouched. They dropped the transmission the same day and gave me 30 day guarantee.. I had my trans sitting for almost 4 years in a garage and it was fully functional. I have almost 2 weeks now since my AV6 Swap.
As I had mentioned, I think it is a safe gamble to take if you get it under say 75k miles. The AV6 seems to be a pretty solid design. Besides checking the fluid that is in the donor trans when you are buying it, it is also helpful to be able to see the car it is coming out of if possible. I was able to like Skirmish; the accord my AV6 came out of was at the yard with trans still in it and I was able to check the car out as a whole. It was in great shape and looked well cared for..it was in a rear end collision.
As I had mentioned, I think it is a safe gamble to take if you get it under say 75k miles. The AV6 seems to be a pretty solid design. Besides checking the fluid that is in the donor trans when you are buying it, it is also helpful to be able to see the car it is coming out of if possible. I was able to like Skirmish; the accord my AV6 came out of was at the yard with trans still in it and I was able to check the car out as a whole. It was in great shape and looked well cared for..it was in a rear end collision.
I will try to find time and do it this way but apparently, no yard close by me has a 06/07 accord in their lot... I believe the nearest one is in Baltimore which is 1.5 hrs away... What I found on car-part.com is that the price point is almost 1k for the lower mileage donor... I need to make some phone calls.. apparently an older friend of mine who has an underground shop may be able to source a rebuilt one for about 1300-1700 from a rebuilder somewhere in the Carolinas...
Where are you located? I drove about 1hr away for mine
Leesburg, VA... Are you local or within the area? Did you go to a pick and pull yard and got it yourself???
I'd be willing to gamble on a used one if I can find a lower mileage donor for sub $800 price point...
Good thing is that my co-teacher is not in a hurry to sell the car... in fact, I think she is only interested in parting ways with it if I am the buyer... otherwise, they may end up keeping it for sentimental reasons...
I am in central NJ. I found mine thru craigslist in north NJ. If you search on CL with terms like ' 2006 accord parts' etc you may get lucky. Too bad you are not up this way, there is a member on here named Paul who does the swaps for a very reasonable price
I am in central NJ. I found mine thru craigslist in north NJ. If you search on CL with terms like ' 2006 accord parts' etc you may get lucky. Too bad you are not up this way, there is a member on here named Paul who does the swaps for a very reasonable price
Well, after MarcDavidoff suggested, I did see a listing in our local CL... sent an email and waiting for a response...
I also had the opportunity to talk to a honda tech guy and he did confirm to me that the 06/07 Accord tranny is almost always problem free... he actually somewhat reassured me that it is ok to be a used tranny from a yard so long as I sniff the fluid to check for possible internal damage... he said to be cautious since some yards will try to fill the tranny with new fluid to make it seem fresh, but he said the key was the smell...
As for the labor, he said it shouldn't cost more than $700...
Just remember that getting a new TC is highly recommended... Most of the old fluid and sludge sits inside the TC. I bought a new one (Rebuilt) with my swap.
Just remember that getting a new TC is highly recommended... Most of the old fluid and sludge sits inside the TC. I bought a new one (Rebuilt) with my swap.
Im guessing any torque converter will suffice... even the ones from places such as autozone or advancedauto since what they sell are remans anyway???
I've bought a lot of stuff on ebay including some autoparts, but not as integral as a car's transmission... have anyone had luck in buying an AV6 tranny on ebay, and if so, who was the seller and for how much? The reason I ask is that there is one AV6 tranny listed for $650 with 95k miles and a freight charge of $150... it comes with a 60 day warranty... so far this is one of the cheapest I've seen for the mileage...
Someone on CL is selling one for $750 with 100k miles but won't ship... not sure if the seller has a yard or just an individual private seller... but he said he will warrant the tranny for 60days...
No junkyards in your area? The AV6 is not a rare car..
I was looking on car-part.com and there's some in Baltimore... but for 1k and higher miles... The one I asked on CL has yet to tell me if he's a private seller or works for the yard...
Should I even do a flush and fill for the meantime that I am sourcing parts and see if that will make any difference? Given that the tranny was last flushed when the car had 66k miles, will it make any difference?
02-25-2016, 09:49 PM
