4gets N SportShift

WHAT IT'S NOT: I've had my battery tested numerous times, so it's not the battery. I've tested my alternator once and was told that it is not properly receiving its charge when the AC is on, but the alternator is seemingly okay.

THE ISSUE: My car has had trouble turning over a total of 4 times in 3 months. Once the car has started, I've never had any trouble until I shut it off. (Then again, I haven't driven the car more than 30 miles for more than 6 months.) I am at 194,000 miles, fyi.

FINDINGS: I never use my AC, however, as all of you 2nd Generation owners know.... If the AC is OFF but the Temperature set to less than 70-ishº, then it constantly blows out a little bit of cool air. I changed the setting to over 80º, and the car cranked up okay for a month... until yesterday.

YESTERDAY: My car wouldn't crank for the first time in a while. The radio was on, so I turned that off, WHICH DE-ACTIVATED BOTH AMPS as well. I had no trouble cranking the car after I turned off the radio.

VERDICT: Having the AC and/or radio (including two amps) on before I crank my car seems to be straining the Alternator enough to not crank.

I would REALLY appreciate it if one of you could narrow my problem down to a single part which would save me a good deal of money. I don't know what a Torque Converter Seal is or a Triple Cylanoid Seal, but would it by chance be something with a name similar to that?

Thanks a bunch

fsttyms1

For starters, what year is your car?

2nd, having that stuff on or not while trying to crank the start the car has NOTHING to do with the alternator. That charges the battery WHILE the car is running. If you have the climate control OFF the ac isnt running. neither is the fan. Having the car on FULL Auto however will.

By cranking do you mean the engine turns over slowly or nothing at all when you turn the key? Do you hear any clicking from the starter or is it silent?

4gets N SportShift

2000 TL

It doesn't seem like it should be so, but my car will most certainly blow out cold air when turned completely off (only if I have the temp set to a cool temp... if I have it set to a higher temp, the air will come out warm). A small amount of conditioned air comes through even if I have the vent closed.

The information about my alternator not getting a charge while these things are on was reported to me by a mechanic I trust (I hope) after my car was hooked up to a computer.

By not turning over, I mean that the car does everything like normal except the actual starting part. All of the noises are the same except for the lack of actually starting. It may also help to know that I've had the spark plugs changed two months ago.

Thanks for the response.

cmlteg

for what your describing sound like ur battery does not have enough juice, so when ur starting ur car with the accesories turn on if fails to start up the car, have you replaced ur battery, has it been tested?????

3.2TLc

I've got a 2000 TL when a while back @ 150k, which had a similar situation. Battery's are easily tested and normally will crank a car over, unless they are weak or not being fully charged by the alternator. Try another battery, as that's the simplest thing to try. If it still does the same stuff, then my guess is the alternator. These cars have alot of drain with all the power accessories and ac. A good shop can also check the alternator under load with the accessories turned on along with the headlamps. My car started running erratically and died on me while driving, Could'nt restart, ended up being the alternator. About $200.

fsttyms1

Air may push thru because the cars vent system when off is set to outside air, but it isnt cooled air by the air conditioner because it is off, the pump isnt cycling.

Like i said before, your alternator has NOTHING to do with anything in the car while starting it. It ONLY charges and maintains the system while running. If the motor isnt running it isnt charging. IF it was hooked up to a computer the car was running to get any output information.

Can you be more specific about it starting than ("I mean that the car does everything like normal except the actual starting part")?? So when you have these issues, the car will crank, but wont actually start running? Or you just get clicking noise? Or no noise? What is every thing normal?

When you are starting the car do you see the green key blinking in the inst cluster?

4gets N SportShift

Battery has been tested numerous times, and the reading always comes up 100% okay.

Anyway, forget about the AC thing, the issue seems to lie solely with the radio and, thus, two amps all being in the 'On' position before I attempt to crank the car. The car only cranks (fully turns over) a fraction of the time when my radio is turned on.

This may even be a problem with the wiring of the stereo.... i.e., the size of the fuse or something.

dreem1er

iTrader: (2)

I've never heard of a/c being on stops a car from starting, you may have a problem with wiring wether it be the cables from the battery.

basically everything in the car is wired switched ignition, when you start up the car everything should shut off till you let go of the key

Now if the alternator isn't charging properly with the a/c on your compressor/alternator might be on its way out.

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

The amps have a remote turn on wire. They shouldn't have any draw on the system until the radio is on and sending signal down the blue wire. Turn the radio off and the amps should be dead in the water. The size of fuse only determines how much is allowed to pass through and prevent overloading your equipment. It's size won't effect starting. There's starter relay that could malfunction or work intermittently. Also check the wires on the starter for corrosion an tight connections.

dreem1er

iTrader: (2)

^remote turn on only works if you wire correctly, you can hot wire it, but you will need a kill switch so they won't drain you out overnight.




Also I've seen head units that don't kill the amp just the audio signal, if you look at the amp with the radio off and car on the amp may be on, but should be off when the car is off.

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

True. I just assumed it was wired that way but you could be right with that one. How ate your amps wired??

acutee

Maybe check your battery cables and or any loose ground cable.

dreem1er

iTrader: (2)

I have pioneer and it shuts off the amp, so in my tl its wired up the standar everyday way.



But other cars I've wired up if it doesn't shut off, and the person wants it, i put a small basic on/off toggle kill switch inline on the remote turn off, that way you can kill the amp when you want...this works really for heads that don't have amp/sub control..(they just increase/decrease volume level with minimal bass control)... when you don't want bass flick the switch and gone.


Works well to confuse cops, flick the switch before they come up to you...cop "your bass is too loud"...you "what bass?"...cop "pop the trunk"...you "they are in, but not wired, must of been someone else " their face is priceless lol

Gfaze

How is your battery being tested? A handheld tester taken out to the car at your auto parts store or do you take the battery out and have it load tested inside the store? If you haven't already, take it out and have it load tested. This is a better test to determine if the battery is good or bad.

Ruyguy331

sounds alot like ur starter is going. when mine started to go it happened every few months and then became more frequent eventually. it would happen to where i would turn the key to acc and the radio would play and ac would blow, everything was fine. but when i went to start it it would just click once and then my accessories would die. the cars electric was okay. i thought it was possibly a battery issue so i would redo the connection to the battery and sometimes it would go. bought a new battery, still had the problem. it had also started happening right around the time i installed my new system, so i thought the amps were messing with the alternator or something. but that wasnt it. there were a bunch of weird combinations that would cause my car not to start, and then one day i got stuck and it wouldnt turn over no matter what i did. replaced the starter and havent had the problem since. mine went around 105k. i think it was like 70 bucks after i dropped off the old starter. either way good luck figuring it out

xxiiajc

I'm starting to have this issue as well as my 2005 w/82k mi. About a 9mo-1yr ago I would turn the key, hear the click of the ignition, then nothing. Thought it was the starter so I would tap it with the end of a broom stick, sometimes several times, then it would start. Didn't happen again until last week. At the gas pump, go to start, and the same thing happens, turn-click-nothing. Tap the starter again and it starts. Doesn't happen again until today, two times. The funny thing is I don't usually use the a/c but my girl was in the car so I had it on. Both times it was left running as I shut off the car and when I went to start the turn-click-nothing deal. Tap the starter and it would start. When I got home, I shut off the a/c before I shut off the car. Try it again and she started right up! Now I may be out there thinking there is some correlation between the a/c drawing too much power (radio on as well) away from the starter for it to engage. Or maybe it's just the starter is starting to crap out, but I've never heard of the starter going out slowly, usually it just dies? Any thoughts???

Gfaze

Your starter is going bad. When you go to start your car all of the accessories such as a/c, stereo, etc are cut off until the car starts. The fact that the car starts every time you tap the starter is a clear indicator that it's toast. Replace your starter.

4gets N SportShift

thanks for all the responses so far. Here are the things I'm going to have checked:

Wires on the starter
Ground wire on the battery
The starter relay?
...and perhaps have the battery load tested

If nothing looks out of order and it's still starting sluggishly, I'm going to have the starter replaced.

Although I still would like thoughts on AAIIAJC's question, which was "is it possible for a starter to go out slowly... instead of crapping out cold turkey?"

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

Inside the starter are wire brushes. The wires can wear down with time and make less and less contact until they barely touch.

4gets N SportShift

I see. The wire brushes aren't something that would be affected by accessories (stereo/AC) pulling power inside the car, correct?

4gets N SportShift

Thanks RuyGuy.

My situation is similar to yours. Even when my car won't crank, all of the accessories still work fine while the key sits in the ACC position. It's like there's plenty of power to condition the air and play two amps and the stereo, but not enough power to trigger the car start. Hmmm...

4gets N SportShift

UPDATE:

- I've bought a new battery, but the problem still occurs about once every 2 months.
- Problem still occurs even when ALL accessories are OFF
- My mechanic is telling me that the "Check Engine" codes indicate a Temperature Sensor and for a New Transmission (BUT I DON'T TRUST MY MECHANIC ANY MORE for a few unmentioned reasons. FYI, he is not an Acura serviceman.)
- The "Check Engine" light is ONLY on a couple of days per week... WEIRD!

*I changed my own spark plugs back in August, and I believe they were Bosch Platinums
*Now my engine seems to be stuttering frequently while accelerating
*My engine's idling randomly went back and forth from 1,000 rpms to 2,000 rpms all by itself two weeks ago in PARK and with my foot off the gas, BUT HASN'T DONE IT SINCE... huh?!

(Holy frustrations, Batman)

MilwaukeeDave

iTrader: (3)

You used wrong plugs. NGK iridium plugs are what should be used. Try those and see how that works out.

3.2TLc

Hey 4gets 'n SS, what all kinda repairs has your mechanic done for you the past year ?

So ya replaced your own plugs and battery, aye ? If ya don't know what to do next, but need a reliable starting car.....I'd suggest finding another reputable local mechanic who specializes in "Honda" cars. to diagnose.

First off, get the actual codes and we may be able to help you better. Your problem appears randomly intermittent, depending on which way the wind blows !

4gets N SportShift

Just looked at my receipt from back in August... turns out I did use the NGK Iridium plugs after all. I was having this sluggish power problem long before I changed spark plugs tho.

Here's all the work I've had done in the past two years... keeping in mind that all of my trouble started when I took a job in the 710 / 405 area, which has THE worst roads. I went through two sets of motor mounts in a year:

Motor mounts (2 sets)
Transmission
Radiator
New battery
New spark plugs
Power steering pump
intake manifold gasket (cleaning, perhaps?)
torque converter housing
Crankshaft main bering seal

3.2TLc

Have you Seafoamed, cleaned the EGR passageways within the intake, checked the ground wires and load tested the electrical system ? With all those bad roads, things could have loosened up.

How many miles and what is the biggest problem that happens most frequently ?
Is the CEL on presently ? If so, get the codes !!!!!

4gets N SportShift

The codes were apparently:
P0128 Coolant thermostat problem & temperature sensor
P0118 Aternator is not charging when accessories are on / ECT Circuit high input

The main problem is sluggish start-up power a fraction of the time and NO start-up once every couple of months or so. When it won't start, it eventually will 20 - 30 minutes later.

Only recently, I'm also noticing that the RPMs are higher than normal about a quarter of the time. When I'm going 80mph on the freeway, sometimes the RPMs sit around 2,500 while sometimes the RPMs sit around 2,100. I wonder if this may be the temperature sensor issue.

4gets N SportShift

This sluggish power issue has been going on for well over a year now... so it just doesn't seem likely that an alternator would slowly fail like this if it is the alternator.

The battery is very new and I do believe the ground wire has been checked.

Would replacing the "valve cover gasket (both banks)" take care of the need to have the EGR valve cleaned? or is that separate? I had that done last February.

3.2TLc

These codes indicate a problem within the cooling system. Is your coolant level up ? If it's been losing coolant, the system needs to be pressure checked for leaks. Make sure that the fans are operational. Trapped air pockets can cause problems, burp the system.

If the system is working properly, then consider replacing the ECT sensor located on top of the motor in front of the TB. If that doesn't help, try a new "Honda" 2 stage T-stat. Good luck !

4gets N SportShift

research seems to indicate the temp sensor since my gas mileage also seems to be affected. I'll see if I can replace it myself...

still curious to find out if it's even possible for an alternator to show intermittent problems over such a long stretch of time. It just hasn't been able to start just once about every 10-12 weeks for about 14 months. I has refused to start (for at least 30 minutes) about 6 times now, and it has acted this way in all situations: cold start, warm start, accessories on, accessories off, etc.

thanks 3.2TLc

fsttyms1

Yes, an alt can have intermittent issues. But from your description of it not starting then 30min later it starting has NOTHING to do with the alt. The alt does nothing to the car during starting. In post 3 you say
If the motor is cranking normal but not starting its not a battery issue. (nor is it an alternator issue as it has nothing to do with the starting of the car)
I asked you this once before but you never answered, When it cranks over but fails to start do you see the green key in the inst cluster flashing?

4gets N SportShift

It will probably take several weeks for it to occur again, but I will look for it and let you know about the green key flashing.

I watched my mechanic put my car on the diagnostics today and the volts stayed at 14.5, and the ALT % remained at 96%. He kept trying to tell me that my alternator is slowly going, but 96% sounds good to me.

I'll have the coolant temp sensor / thermostat changed and see if the problem goes away.

RC99TL

Check the ignition switch as well. They are prone to wear, they had a recall and when it goes the electrics go wacky.

3.2TLc

Yeah, could be an interlock or relay playing games on the edge.
Hate those "gremlins".