zoopzop

Hey guys, I'm having trouble deciding whether or not I should keep repairing my 2001 Acura TL or pony up and buy a 2004 to 2006 or preferably a 2007 or 2008. I bought my TL for $2600 back in 2015 since then I've put about 76,000 miles on it and about $5,000 of work into it.The front end is tight, no problems up there. The motor seems good to go, it'll chug if I'm on a steep hill and in park. Other than burning maybe a quart of oil every 3000 odd miles it seems fine. The rear end needs a bearing (figure I'll do both), rearward control arms, pads and rotors. Bell Tire tried to tell me the bearings are fine (They "felt" them and didn't feel grinding), however, when I bank right at sufficient speed the humming/grinding stops until the vehicle levels back out at which point it starts again. With that being said my money is on the bearings... The trans was already rebuilt before I bought it at around 148,000 miles. I also occasionally get an SRS code for the passenger seat about some sensor in the seat which I hear is expensive t to fix? It comes on every 6 to 12 months, gets cleared and goes away for a LONG while.

The transmission is going to be what kills it, I think. The best way I can describe it is that it behaves like my buddies 2009 Toyota Camry except it feels older and looser. It jumps a little bit when I put it into drive, usually I sit in drive for 2 or 3 seconds until after I know the jump has/would have happened . The issues it does have have gotten maybe 20% worse over 76k miles. I'm expecting to need another rebuild before I hit 300k miles, so, with what I have described above I think $5000 for next 56,000 miles is an accurate figure just for repairs, right?

So, if I go and buy a 2004 to 2008 TL for less than $6,000 I can then turn around an sell mine for maybe $2000 which puts me at slightly less than the $5000 I'm looking at now unless more than $1000 worth of stuff goes wrong with the next vehicle over the next 56k miles. I'm a loss at what to do, seems like I'll be out thousands either way. So I might as well get something a little bit newer, eh?

Here's a TL I'm looking at now:

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...18910075640306

Chojun

Buying a 'new' car is entirely up to you.

The best way to go if you want to keep your car is to replace the transmission with an AV6 for around $1500 installed when yours goes out. Don't rebuild your transmission.

My personal opinion is that keeping your car and maintaining it is always cheaper than buying another one but this only makes sense if you actually like your car.

zoopzop

Thanks, so, by AV6 do you mean the transmission from the Honda Accord?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/03-04-05-06...-/273164241389

Is that the correct item? I'll call my guy for a quote on it. I see that unit's only $1000 with shipping, I can't see the install being more than a few hours?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Yes, the AV6 transmission is short-hand for a 2006-2007 Accord V6 transmission. It is considered by many to be a superior 5-Speed auto compared to the unit in the later 2G TLs and the 2004-2006 3G TLs.

zoopzop

Do you happen to know about how many hours a labor a trans shop would charge to remove the old trans and slap on in?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I've heard as few as four and as many as eight to ten; I'm thinking it depends upon whether the shop wants to drop the sub frame (which I believe is the standard procedure but takes longer), or take the shortcut and do a straight R&R.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

a used car is a used car and will come with it's own set of issues...
love the one you're with, you know what you are dealing with and what you've already put into it.

Wait until there's nothing left or you're ready for a substantial upgrade IMO.
A bearing should be grinding all the time...right? Tipping and grinding could be something else like a heat shield or something?

Darksyne

The only reason I would Upgrade to a 3rd Gen TL is if you're getting one with that Bullet proof 6 speed manual. The Automatic is more or less the same in the 3rd gen with the way it drives and the manual is much more reliable and efficient.
If you don't plan on driving manual then I'd keep the 2nd gen, parts are much cheaper for the 2nd gen and is easier to work on yourself since there's less computer components, the only pain the ass repairs for them are the Transmission, Fuel tank, and the High Pressure Power Steering line.
Other than that the 2nd gen TL's are tanks that go on forever.

frankjnjr

FWIW: Solid advice here, from Chojun. A few unknowns, regarding the Burgundy 2008, on Facebook. Any maintenance records, "ie" timing belt service, engine mounts, etc. Looking at the 2008 pics., I would be concerned, that perhaps, it's owner MAY have concentrated, more on appearance modifications, and wheels, than on general maintenance. If, the car has not had the timing belt done, and other regular maintenance items, have been neglected, you can probably count on an additional $2,000.00 minimum, just to bring that car up to speed. Since, you have already invested 5K in maintenance, on your 2G, in the past 3 years, exclusive of the transmission, it's probably a pretty solid car. Worst case scenario, the transmission fails, and requires an AV6 upgrade, at a cost of approximately $1500.00. The transmission upgrade, coupled with the $5,00.00, you've already invested in maintenance, SHOULD, provide you with reliable transportation, for years to come.

zoopzop

Yeah, Chojun is right about how it's cheaper to just keep going with this car. I think my per mile cost, including gas, auto insurance, purchase prices and repairs + maintenance runs about 27.9 cents a mile. That's almost half of what the IRS lets you claim, so, the write off from all the driving I do should be sweet :p. I'll keep it until I make better money, hopefully that isn't too long. Even at 300k miles, with all the records I have, I think I could get $1500 to $2000 for it around here so that ought to be nice.

Unfortunately it is rusting pretty bad in both rear wheel wells, it's almost reached the interior of the car by the drive side passenger seat. Figure I'll take some spray foam and black spray paint to it and call it a day?

As far as swapping out for the AV6 is concerned, like, how do I explain this to a shop? I tried talking to my usual guy about it and he just got irritated because he didn't understand, so, he's out of the picture now lol. Other than shipping them the transmission is there anything else I need to provide them parts wise or is adding in that transmission just a bolt up and plug and play deal? I figured there'd be some hose adaptation at the very least and some monkeying around with the computer you'd have to do???

Chojun

So the transmission that comes in the car 2000-2003 is probably B7WA or M7WA. You could have a redesigned MAYA transmission. The 'AV6' is just another term we use around here for a Honda Accord '06-'07 V6 (NOT hybrid) transmission with mfg code BAYA. You're swapping a BAYA transmission into your car, *WITH* the torque converter that came with the BAYA.

A few things need to be swapped from the B7WA/M7WA/MAYA to the BAYA (like some sensors/brackets and optionally the filter assembly). Some other minor things need to be addressed like plugging the power steering assist for TL-P models (not necessary on TL-S).

From the mechanic's perspective, it will be pretty much a routine removal and reinstall of a different transmission. No weird stuff required. Technically it's a 'mod' but the transmissions are almost identical to each-other.

Here are the instructions you'd give to your mechanic.

https://www.scribd.com/document/3007...nsmission-Swap

Chojun

Looks like my cost to drive has been in the 18-20 cents per mile range and that includes a $4000 trans rebuild in '11.

Cheap car to drive for sure.

zoopzop

I can't believe how good the TL's are man, I've had 3 Fords, a GMC and Buick and my TL has blown them all out of the water. I don't know why anyone buys anything but Honda lmfao

SuperGreg

Tough decision, I've had my TL for 200K miles and 12+ years, and it's been good to me so I like to keep fixing it. Not sure I'd feel the same if I'd only had it a couple years. Anyway, I fixed the OPDS sensor issue on my TL by replacing the module in the seat, it's about $200: https://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/...it-81334s0ka73

01acls

You're better off selling the car. Engine is burning oil, trans is on the the way out. Sell it while it's worth something.

The trans i believe can be save but burning oil is the deal breaker.

You have a third option if you like the car, buy another 2g TLS in mint condition... Shouldn't break the bank.

zoopzop

Can you go into a bit more detail about why the engine burning oil is bad? I figured pretty much all cars do that. My friend has a Chevy Impala from like 2013 that burns as much oil as mine. I was kind of shocked tbh lol. You'd figure the car from 2001 would be in worse shape than the 2003...

01acls

Well, the term burning oil when it is apply to an engine means that the engine is worn to some extent. A quart every 3000 miles for a j series motor or honda is not the normal.

At least from my experiences Honda's do not burn oil especially the earlier Honda's. Even if they're high mileage, I know of 4 hondas/acuras with 200,000-300,000 miles that doesn't need to add oil in-between oil changes. I mean literally, it's still full on the dip stick when it's checked every single time. This why Honda has such a loyal following, even with the trans debacle.

Burning oil means either the piston rings are worn or the valve guildes are worn, or both. If it's not burning oil but still losing oil then there is an oil leak... A costly repair bill is most likely. Not unusual the repair cost approaching half the resale value of the car. Depending on where you live, it may be close to the total value of the car.

Let me put it this way, no one who knows how to shop for a use car will ever buy a car knowing the engine consumes oil in a significant amount or otherwise losing engine oil in one form or another.

Darksyne

It's most likely a leak. Unless the motor is beat to piss or is a 4 banger, Honda V6's almost never burn oil. The only time they burn oil is if the spark plug tube seals have dried out causing oil to leak passed the plugs.

Check to see if there's any blue tinge in the smoke from the tail pipe otherwise you got a leak.

Depending on the oil, my TL loses on average about half a quart of oil per 10,000 km and it's most likely from the tube seals since they're original.

zoopzop

Well, funny story about my motor actually. I'm pretty sure it's leaking and not burning oil now that I think about. So I had a former mechanic of mine replace all the seals in the motor that hold oil in (his words, not mine. Couldn't get him to write of specific gaskets other than the oil pan gasket, he said he went 3/4 down into the motor?). The mechanic had to do the job 4 times he sucked so much. I remember after the second time he tried to do it that there was literally oil raining out of underneath the car. I actually have a video of it if anyone would care to see it LOL Now I smell burning oil all the time... Been that way the whole time I've had it so you can imagine that paying some guy $800 to mess up my car for two months was a little irritating especially since I continued to smell burning oil. The leaking was reduced substantially. Used to be so bad the whole underside of the car would be covered in oil He also screwed up the timing chain and water pump job, had to redo that 19,000 miles after his first shot. Thanks for help, 01ACLS xD

Looks like my best bet is going to be to hope my current TL runs a few tens of thousands of miles longer while I keep on the look out for another TL of the same generation. These cars are hard to find -_-

Chojun

They're hard to find because people are junking them due to the transmission issue. They've crossed the threshold where it's more money to rebuild/replace the trans than the car is worth. They're getting quite rare on the road.

It makes me love mine that much more. One was following behind me on the freeway this morning - Acura was just way ahead of its time on the design of this model.

My wife hates my car though because it's "old". Lol.

zoopzop I would super clean your engine bay (mostly the bottom of the engine) and get it as clean as you can and then see where the oil leak is coming from. It's probably your pan gasket I'd imagine. There's only so many places where your engine can leak oil.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

My wife, who has a relatively new Mazda3 s GT was kinda-sorta non-plussed when I bought my TL; then she drove it. Her comment was, "That car is a honey to drive!" Now when we go anywhere together, the TL gets the nod and the Mazda stays home.

zoopzop

https://toledo.craigslist.org/cto/d/...559000236.html

Only 41,000 miles! $4000 is a little high I'd say? Looks exactly like the one I have now, I cannot stand those rims lol.

Arkady

Wow, the interior of that car you posted is in really great condition!
My front seat leather is so torn and cracked I've considered slapping a lawn chair in there instead,... :P
$4k is a bit high but I know I always put in a really high asking price on Craigslist, since everyone is going to try and work me down anyhow haha.

Chojun

All said the transmission in that car is probably only good for 30-40K miles. But otherwise it's a good price for that car as I picked up a 2000 Honda accord EX V6 with 185K miles for 4K in a similar condition.

Arkady

That the same Accord you did the PS high pressure line job on recently, @Chojun?

Chojun

Yup.

zoopzop

The TL I have now had the trans rebuilt at 168k miles, idk if it had been done before that... Why do you think the TL in Toledo will only last 30k/40k miles? Did they really suck that much lmfao?

SuperGreg

It's a good guess because with only 41K miles, it's very probable that the car has the original tranny with no oil jet kit. Many people went through two or three (or more) of the original designs before 100K. The redesigned case helped a lot, mine was replaced at around 40K and lasted to 208K.

01acls

The $4k TL was a totaled car and rebuild back to current condition. I'm not sure but the ECM may be 41k miles but that doesn't mean the power train is 41k miles unless the power train is the OE power train.

Just a FYI, think about this now. The car new was around $40k. Would you sell it for $4k if the car only has 41k miles? Sounds too good to be true.

zoopzop

Ohhhhhh okay, I see. I'm assuming the one I have no was also redone with the oil jet kit since it's been running so long after the rebuild with no issues. I figured the low price was because of how old it was. Hmm... I'll be sticking with my TL for now, 245k miles and going strong xD. So really that TL in Toledo is probably worth $2000 tops?

zoopzop

Ohhhhhh okay, I see. I'm assuming the one I have no was also redone with the oil jet kit since it's been running so long after the rebuild with no issues. I figured the low price was because of how old it was. Hmm... I'll be sticking with my TL for now, 245k miles and going strong xD. So really that TL in Toledo is probably worth $2000 tops?

01acls

It's impossible to know what the car is worth without inspecting the car. The rebuild car can be good or basket case. Have it professional inspect it if you're seriously interested in buying the car.