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My transmission has finally crapped out this past week. It started slipping gears and had some other random symptoms for about 3 months when i first got a transmission problem code/CES light, but it is now finally at the point where it is un-safe to drive; it has very rough up-shifting and then "locks up" for a second right after every downshift, even during highway speeds, which causes my wheels to lock up and skid (no joke...). right now I've found it ok to not go past the 3rd gear, but it is still very rough when shifting It already has an oil jet kit that was installed in 2004. (doing some research, I read somewhere that recalls done before 2005 would still have transmission failures due to bad clutchpacks). Things that I've tried: replacing/cleaning the shift solenoid screen filters, replacing the transmission fluid filter, replacing both transmission mounts, engine mounts, flushed transmission fluid using 3x3 method (did this one a couple of years back), and always using honda's recommended fluids. believe me when I've said that i've tried...
my next plan of action is to run through the well-documented transmission swap using a 06-07 Honda Accord V6 tranny. i've done some extensive research on this as well, but still had a couple of questions regarding the actual transmission that i didn't see posted in any of the forums. I notice that almost every guide states that we should use the 2006-2007 model of the honda accords, but doesnt state why. I looked up the differences between these 2 models and the previous ones before them, and all I could find was that they used different engines, with all Honda Accord V6's from 1998-2002 using the J30A1 engine, 2003-2005 using the J30A4 engine, and the 2006-2007 using the J30A6 engine (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_J_engine#J30A). Transmissions wise, i see that the v6 honda accord's from 2003-2007 all used the transmission "BAYA", or "MAYA" for Japanese built (source: https://cobratransmission.com/index....age=page&id=24). I couldnt find any differences between the different years of the BAYA transmissions.
seeing as how the engines were what set apart the V6 06-07 accords from the others, I couldn't help but think that one misinformation got quoted from the original poster, and was just copy and pasted along as common knowledge onto other guides. when I look up BAYA transmissions online, they all seem to indicate that they fit into ALL 2003-2007 V6 accords, not just the 06-07 models. so really I have 2 things that i wanted to confirm with anyone that might be able to help out:
1) am i correct in that the transmission model used for the TL/V6 Accord swap is the "BAYA"/"MAYA" transmission?
2) if so, does the production year of the transmission or what model it's sourced from really matter? are there any differences?
i'm really trying to get this done in the next month or so, because riding a motorcycle to work sucks :/ and also just to add, I'm opting for a re-manufactured transmission, because a lot of the used transmissions looked dirty and never state a clear mileage on them, with much shorter warranties. so even though they're much cheaper (almost half the cost of a re-manned trans,) i much rather pay the extra out of pocket for all the bells and whistles that a re-manned transmission has (upgraded parts, design flaws corrected, better warranty/company trust, etc.)
I think the idea is that the 06-07 is the 'newest' of the bunch revision wise. But if they are indeed all the same, then go for it and report back! May have to dispel these rumors after all
i'd happily be the guinea pig for this just wanted to confirm a few more things before delving into this sorta big project. the revisions do make sense, however i've never seen it explicitly stated anywhere before. i am going to reach out to the tranny supplier later this afternoon and see if they have any knowledge on the subject.
My transmission has finally crapped out this past week. It started slipping gears and had some other random symptoms for about 3 months when i first got a transmission problem code/CES light, but it is now finally at the point where it is un-safe to drive; it has very rough up-shifting and then "locks up" for a second right after every downshift, even during highway speeds, which causes my wheels to lock up and skid (no joke...). right now I've found it ok to not go past the 3rd gear, but it is still very rough when shifting It already has an oil jet kit that was installed in 2004. (doing some research, I read somewhere that recalls done before 2005 would still have transmission failures due to bad clutchpacks). Things that I've tried: replacing/cleaning the shift solenoid screen filters, replacing the transmission fluid filter, replacing both transmission mounts, engine mounts, flushed transmission fluid using 3x3 method (did this one a couple of years back), and always using honda's recommended fluids. believe me when I've said that i've tried...
my next plan of action is to run through the well-documented transmission swap using a 06-07 Honda Accord V6 tranny. i've done some extensive research on this as well, but still had a couple of questions regarding the actual transmission that i didn't see posted in any of the forums. I notice that almost every guide states that we should use the 2006-2007 model of the honda accords, but doesnt state why. I looked up the differences between these 2 models and the previous ones before them, and all I could find was that they used different engines, with all Honda Accord V6's from 1998-2002 using the J30A1 engine, 2003-2005 using the J30A4 engine, and the 2006-2007 using the J30A6 engine (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_J_engine#J30A). Transmissions wise, i see that the v6 honda accord's from 2003-2007 all used the transmission "BAYA", or "MAYA" for Japanese built (source: https://cobratransmission.com/index....age=page&id=24). I couldnt find any differences between the different years of the BAYA transmissions.
seeing as how the engines were what set apart the V6 06-07 accords from the others, I couldn't help but think that one misinformation got quoted from the original poster, and was just copy and pasted along as common knowledge onto other guides. when I look up BAYA transmissions online, they all seem to indicate that they fit into ALL 2003-2007 V6 accords, not just the 06-07 models. so really I have 2 things that i wanted to confirm with anyone that might be able to help out:
1) am i correct in that the transmission model used for the TL/V6 Accord swap is the "BAYA"/"MAYA" transmission?
2) if so, does the production year of the transmission or what model it's sourced from really matter? are there any differences?
i'm really trying to get this done in the next month or so, because riding a motorcycle to work sucks :/ and also just to add, I'm opting for a re-manufactured transmission, because a lot of the used transmissions looked dirty and never state a clear mileage on them, with much shorter warranties. so even though they're much cheaper (almost half the cost of a re-manned trans,) i much rather pay the extra out of pocket for all the bells and whistles that a re-manned transmission has (upgraded parts, design flaws corrected, better warranty/company trust, etc.)
I don't remember where I sourced this information, but I did take notes last year when I ran across it:
MAYA: Honda Accord 2003-2005
BAYA: Honda Accord 2006-2007
As I understand it, there was never any cross over between model years for the above two transmissions.
So from the information gathered.. sounds like MAYBE the takeaway is that BAYA ALSO fits 03-05 Accords? I'm not sure if MAYA will fit the 2nd gen TL.
As I understand it, and there was a thread sort of on this topic last week, both the BAYA and MAYA will fit 2000-2003 2G TLs as well as 2004-2006 3G TLs. That said, were it I had an automatic TL, there is no way I'd install anything other than a BAYA.
2003-2004 v6 Accord got the MAYA and 2005-2007 the BAYA. I think the MAYA is made in Japan and the BAYA in the US. The MCLA and BCLA are for the 4 cylinder (not sure about that). I guess in the BAYA the issue was fixed at the factory. But I still can't explain how come my '03 has a BAYA and the jet kit installed, so I think its all a mixed bag of transmissions and nobody really knows whats going on with that story, except of course Honda.
IIRC, there were a few BAYA transmissions that were produced in 2005 that have a different torque converter bolt pattern. One member here had the transmission installed only to find the TC didn't line up with the flex plate. I've seen no fitment issues with 06-07 BAYA transmissions.
IIRC, there were a few BAYA transmissions that were produced in 2005 that have a different torque converter bolt pattern. One member here had the transmission installed only to find the TC didn't line up with the flex plate. I've seen no fitment issues with 06-07 BAYA transmissions.
FWIW: If the BAYA transmission is sourced from an early built 2006 model, it may well have a different flex plate to torque converter bolt pattern. This issue applies only to the 2006 BAYA transmission, and only those built in late 2005. Anyone performing the AV6 swap, should measure the torque converter bolt pattern, ( bolt hole, center to center ). If this measurement is 11.25", your good to go. If the measurement is 10.75", you will need to source the correct torque converter!
since i am buying a transmission that includes a torque converter, this worries me. but im very appreciative of it being brought up. i guess the easiest way would be to talk to the supplier and make sure that the measurement of the bolt hole is 11.25".
Update: so i think we're on to something here, boys. one of the remanufacturers just stated that the differences between the different production models between 2003-2005 and 2006-2007 BAYA transmissions are the "torque converter sizes". I just asked for the size of the "torque converter bolt pattern, ( bolt hole, center to center)" to see if it matches up to the specs frankjnjr mentioned
Update: so i think we're on to something here, boys. one of the remanufacturers just stated that the differences between the different production models between 2003-2005 and 2006-2007 BAYA transmissions are the "torque converter sizes". I just asked for the size of the "torque converter bolt pattern, ( bolt hole, center to center)" to see if it matches up to the specs frankjnjr mentioned
We've heard this before from remanufacturers. While I'm guessing the kits to remanufacture the transmissions are the same (i.e. the latest engineering updates applied), the various transmissions didn't start out with the same exact internals (close, but not identical). Do I know that for a fact? Nope, but if I had to bet on it, I'd say the remanufacture kits effectively bring the 2003-2005 AV6 transmissions up to the BAYA standard.
The context of this discussion is when sourcing a non-rebuilt transmission from a bone yard, BAYA is the only way to go.
oh ok I see what you're saying. so if I'm understanding it correctly, these remanufacturers can take the slightly older "MAYA" transmissions, and upgrade them up to "BAYA" standards, and sell them off as "BAYA"s, if they wanted? even if that were the case, since all the parts are still replaced and upgraded, shouldn't that still make it as good- if not, even better, than sourcing a used BAYA from the junk yard or online where they dont usually state what model they're sourced from and only tells you which models they will "fit", while claiming they're "approx. 30k-60k mileage" range, and also sold AS-IS with practically no warranty?
wouldnt the remanufactured one would have the least potentiality of issues compared to a used one? sounds like a stupid question, but thats why I'm here and to learn
oh ok I see what you're saying. so if I'm understanding it correctly, these remanufacturers can take the slightly older "MAYA" transmissions, and upgrade them up to "BAYA" standards, and sell them off as "BAYA"s, if they wanted? even if that were the case, since all the parts are still replaced and upgraded, shouldn't that still make it as good- if not, even better, than sourcing a used BAYA from the junk yard or online where they dont usually state what model they're sourced from and only tells you which models they will "fit", while claiming they're "approx. 30k-60k mileage" range, and also sold AS-IS with practically no warranty?
wouldnt the remanufactured one would have the least potentiality of issues compared to a used one? sounds like a stupid question, but thats why I'm here and to learn
Assuming the same level of quality and care went into the remanufactured transmission as the used factory built transmission, yes.
It appears that no one is 100% sure of what, if any, the differences between are between the different model years of the BAYA transmissions, but one thing that I can now be certain of after reading everyone's posts on here and researching further on various forums and websites, is that all BAYAs were all built in the US; whereas MAYAs were built in Japan- with no regard to having any revisions being made to them in between 2003-2007. I believe this because almost all Honda transmissions during this time frame used the same naming convention for their transmissions, and first letter always indicated the country it was built in:
this site here: https://cobratransmission.com/index....age=page&id=24, has a nice comprehensive list of pretty much all Honda auto transmission codes along with their production year and notes, which verifies what I stated. It seems pretty clear that the only difference between the first "B" and "M" only signify whether the transmission was built in either US or Japan. If the transmission was revisioned or upgraded completely, it still kept the country code, but changed the third and fourth characters like so:
2003–2004 Honda Pilot (BVGA)
2005–2015 Honda Pilot (BVLA)
2005-2006 CR-V 2.4L (MKYA)
2007-2010 CR-V 2.4L (MZJA)
To add to this, I couldn't find a single "MAYA" transmission to purchase here online, and one person on a Honda forum, TonyWare, seems to corroborate this when he stated that his 2003 Honda Accord V6's original transmission said "BAYA", not "MAYA", which further proves that BAYAs were used from 2003 and on, and doesn't correlate with our previous belief that "MAYA" transmissions were only used in the 2003-2005 V6 Accord's: https://www.driveaccord.net/forums/1...maya-baya.html.
my belief is that all 2003-2007 Accord V6 in America all used the BAYA transmission, while having no differences between them in any year, but the 2006-2007 transmissions used a different torque converter to accentuate the upgrade made to the 2006-2007 Honda Accord V6 which used a different, newer variant of the J30A engine, when it changed from the J30A4 in 2003-2005 to the J30A5 from 2006-2007, as I have previously mentioned earlier. I think the original callout to using *only* the 2006-2007 Accord V6 transmissions were due those having torque converters that matched the flex plate of the TL, where as the previous year models didn't (again, because of the different engine the accords used), and not because there were any revisions done specifically to the 2006-2007 BAYA transmissions compared to any of the 2003-2005 BAYA/MAYA transmissions.
Personally I feel that since remanufacturers have exponentially more experience with transmissions, I could trust them more in that there were no changes made between the transmission itself from 2003-2007, but I also haven't found one post where someone opened and has gone through a 2003-2005 BAYA with a 2006-2007 BAYA and compared it side by side. At worst, a 2003-2005 BAYA would have different components and small differences in design, but wouldn't that still be better than my current TL tranny? At best, there are structurally no differences between the 2 transmissions other than the torque converters that came with it. I'd like to know what you guys think...
That being said, I'm now very close to buying the remanufactured BAYA transmission. My next step is researching what other parts I need replaced while I have the engine and tranny hoisted. So far on my list of things to replace: new rear main seal, new axle seals, new input shaft seal, and torque converter O-ring. Trying to order everything before any work begins. Also, not sure if the TC O-ring is necessary since I'm getting a remanned transmission.
That being said, I'm now very close to buying the remanufactured BAYA transmission. My next step is researching what other parts I need replaced while I have the engine and tranny hoisted. So far on my list of things to replace: new rear main seal, new axle seals, new input shaft seal, and torque converter O-ring. Trying to order everything before any work begins. Also, not sure if the TC O-ring is necessary since I'm getting a remanned transmission.
Unless the timing belt and water pump are relatively new, you might as well spend the extra couple hundred and do them as well.
Funny you should mention that! I have a new rear engine mount sitting in my garage from back when I bought all 3 mounts for the engine, but only 2 were swapped out because I did'nt have time to take on the rear mount, so I was planning on getting that done during this swap. Great call out
I've thought about it for a good week or so, and decided to take it to a shop; the tools that I would need to go out and buy would never cover the costs for the amount of work I'm only going to be doing just once in my life, and shops usually have engine hoists that wouldn't require them to take the subframe off, thereby reducing the amount of work as well. And also just simply for the fact that I've never done this type of work myself before and it would probably take me at least 3 days to finish if I did it at home in my garage compared to a relatively quick job for an auto or transmission shop.
The timing belt and water pumps were replaced at around 80k miles, so they're just about at time to be replaced again. But I don't know if I should include this in part of the swap job because it might add another labor charge for something I could get done free from a mechanic friend. I'm open to it though, so I'll definitely ask. Thanks!
and does anybody have an opinion on re-using old hoses or buying new ones? I'm not opposed to buying and replacing them, but if the old ones are fine, then I don't see a reason to.
IMO: re-using the old hoses kind of depends on condition, and or how long you intend to keep the car. The hoses on my 03TLS at 15 years and 245K, all appear to be in good shape. Would I change them, if I was working in that area anyway? I would, only for peace of mind. I intend to keep my car for another 50K, and would rather not experience a failure at an inconvenient time!
Question: do I need to swap the Oil Jet Kit that I have on my TL onto the Honda transmission? Did the Honda Accord's receive the same treatment for the recall?
In the AV6 swap FAQ, it says to cut it out of the hose and substitute with another hose, or to just buy a new hose. But if the Oil Jet Kit ultimately helps the transmission, I see no reason to get rid of it.
Due to some unforeseen changes, I have purchased a regular Used 06-07 Accord V6 tranny on ebay, not a remanufactured one. It was $750. Found a shop willing to perform the swap for $450. I am providing all the nec. parts. Its getting done next Wednesday. I'll post some pics of the process and maybe some things I've learend along the way.
I just stopped by the shop today and did a spot check of the beautiful BAYA transmission that came in earlier this week. I got lucky because it happened to be listed on ebay when I was looking for one of these for a couple of months (they're not usually available, and if they are, they're either "JDM" alternative transmissions from different models and without VINs or mileage, or just rebuilt or remanufactured). This one was taken out of the 07 Accord V6 that was salvaged after a rear end collision accident. In terms of looks, it looked REAL GOOD condition wise. Cleaner than my current transmission in fact XD
The swapping process is going to start tomorrow. The mechanic seemed way more knowledgeable than I, and the printouts of the AV6 swap guide that I had for the whoever was going to work on my car seemed futile for someone like him. He knew what needed to be replaced, what needed to be swapped, etc. My only worry is that he will come across the missing port for the Power Steering Rack connector, as I brought that up but wasn't able to show him what I was talking about. I'm going back there tomorrow to drop off a Rear Engine Mount that he's going to replace for free, so I'll be bringing that up again.
Anyways, I'm so glad that this process is finally starting. I did so much research, and driving the car there while stuck in 2nd gear (45 min drive) was a PITA, but hopefully this well all be worth it soon!!
Just out of curiosity, did your Ebay source list the mileage, or display a pic of the odometer your transmission came from. I have an acquaintance who bought a 2006 AV6 with 160K, and paid $650 for it. Installed it in his 2002 TLS, and at 17K since the install, the transmission is still performing perfectly. Normally, I would be skeptical about such high mileage, but in his case, the miles didn't appear to be an issue, and appear to be a testament to the longevity, and durability of the AV6. Glad everything seems to be coming together for you. Anxious to hear the outcome. Thanks for maintaining your thread to a conclusion.
I live in Vegas. I called about 10 shops and got some quotes from all of them. Many were charging a little over 1k for the job, some around 800. I was thinking it was because they either didn't specialize in what I needed or preferred not to use a customer supplied part. Or maybe it was just their normal going rate. 2 shops said they would do it for $450, but this particular shop seemed overall better-informed compared to the other when I spoke to their mechanic (going over the job, parts involved, etc.) Also, they have 5 star reviews on yelp, 4 stars on google, 5/5 reviews on FB and yahoo. Wasn't something that I was checking initially prior to calling them, but it was nice to find out and knowing that they're also pretty reputable.
The shop's name is JMR Auto Transmissions, located off of Rancho Dr near Summerlin. I met the owner when I dropped the car off and he seemed very competent in his line of work and explained the steps he was going to take to perform the swap, talked about the parts, went over the new transmission, looked at the old one, etc. It was almost just like going over everything and both of us agreeing over each of the steps. He was also pleasantly surprised that I had all the knowledge of the swap already. They had plenty of work around when I dropped the car off, and lots of transmissions and spare tranny parts lying all over the place, which I took all of as good signs. It wasn't one of those corporate/franchised, everything super clean and neat type of shop, rather a family run one where everything they need is all within arms reach of everything, I'm bumping into a car's tire that lifted off the ground while walking through it and slipping on a oil spill, guest's counter is also the managers office/waiting room/mechanics break room, and located in between other auto related shops in one of those long buildings of garages that are used as a cluster of overall car repairs. These are the types of shops that I grew up in, so I felt comfortable in the environment, though most ordinary people may not share this sentiment XD
The ebay seller listed the mileage and VIN number. Here are the details from the item's page:
Model:
ACCORD
Year:
2007 Mileage:
136000 (0 = not available or unknown)
Stock Number:
S07228
Store Number:
1
Part Detail
Part Grade:
A
Part Category:
U
Part Placement:
Notes:
136k AT; Sdn, 3.0L, VIN M (5th digit) 100518
I didn't include the VIN here, but did run it online on one of those free VIN checkers that give's you basic info before I bought it to confirm everything. Everything turned out to be accurate, and I was so happy to see and confirm the "BAYA" code on the transmission when it came in. On one of the pictures in the item page, I was able to see the tag had "BAYA" they included the VIN sticker which used to confirm that it was an 07 model V6, but the transmission model # itself wasn't directly mentioned in the item description. I only mention this because it may be useful for anyone next time you go hunting for a transmission on ebay. I feel like if you search "BAYA transmission", you will just get sellers listing items that are either remanufactured or from overseas that are actually MGSA or MKYA, or some other Honda transmission that they believe "fits" into your car. I also didn't get much confidence in one of those "transmission only" parts sites which never included pictures or mileage, and were mostly costing $1k+.
The way I found this tranny was by searching "Honda Accord Transmission V6 2006" or "2007". Since it was a salvage yard shop, they only cared about putting in the basics for their part. What year, how many miles, VIN, etc. So through my experience, searching strictly by transmission code was not the way to go, but rather searching for parts from a particular car model and year provided less results but a better product.
The transmission was $650, and shipping was $165. On top of noting the mileage, it also provided a picture of the odometer at it's last reading which was 135,776.
Judging solely by it's interior pics, it looks like the previous owner may have taken pretty good care of it:
this new tranny was cleaner than my current one. I guess 7 additional years of wear will do that. After seeing all of these pics of disgusting used trannies online, I was very happy about it's condition when I opened it up from the shrink wrap. I forgot to take pictures of it while I was there, so I'll have to provide them after the swap is completed and the tranny is in place.
Got her back today!!!! Drives great! The mechanic did everything that I asked for. Swapped out the range sensor, brackets, gaskets, filters, dipstick, etc. There is the slight notice in the steering being heavier, but that's a tradeoff that I can live with. To be clear, it's not the entire power steering function being removed, rather just an assist to it when the power steering rack gets looped. At least that's what he explained to me. And it's really only slightly noticeable. I don't even mind it really. There's still power steering, just not as much as before.
It downshifts so smoothly. I forgot how I felt like after all this time. I can not say enough great things about this guy. He has 30 years of experience and knowledge so I am so glad that I went to the right place to get it done.
Here are all the parts that I ordered in case someone in the future finds this thread:
1. O-Ring for the ATF fluid filter: 91301-P7W-003
2. for filling the top with fluid Bolt, Filler: 25614-PK4-000
4. o-ring that goes at the end of the torque converter: 91302-PGK-003
5. Rear main seal: 91214-P8A-A01
6. O-Ring for the ATF Warmer: 19435-P8E-A01 (x2)
7. O-Ring for the Passage Body: 91302-P7W-A00
8. Gasket for the Passage Body: 25812-P7W-A01
9. Pipe for Oil Jet Kit reversal: 25910-P7W-010 (if you have an oil jet kit installed. skip if not)
10. Axle seals: 91205-P0X-005, 91206-P0Z-005
11. Input shaft seal: 91207-P7Z-003
Driving it at stop and go's felt great. I also drove it at 90mph on the highway for a good 15 minutes. Can't wait to wash it and do the 3x3 tranny fluid flush and basically go back to taking care of it again. It's been a long ride but glad it finally got done!
I did take a pic of the new tranny's torque converter side (don't remember why that but not the entire unit, may have been to check the bolt pattern size distances later), and you can compare it to the old tranny:
Can you tell me if you have a slight bump when the car Locks the TC automatically in D5? This has been noted by some of us with an AV6 Swap..
The problem is a slight bump when the TC locks up in D5 (FULL AUTO) after it reaches 5th gear with little gas input.. Is very easy to reproduce.
Yes, the pressure switch was swapped over! It's part of the tranny's harness and won't fit into the engine otherwise
I haven't noticed any bumps in D5. Can't say that I've seen the TC light changing much either. I do a lot of highway driving, so I'm in the 5th gear a lot, and if something felt different, I'd usually know right away. Can't say that I have felt any bumps, but I will keep an eye out for it starting tomorrow to see if I just missed it.
The only thing I noticed (that may be purely normal) is when setting it to the Reverse gear, and you can hear the thud of the transmission switching into reverse. It used to be a slight "tick" from the old tranny when shifting into reverse, but now it's just a little louder and more noticeable. Again, though, that could just be by design, because it reverses completely fine.
09-26-2018, 10:22 AM
just wanted to confirm a few more things before delving into this sorta big project. the revisions do make sense, however i've never seen it explicitly stated anywhere before. i am going to reach out to the tranny supplier later this afternoon and see if they have any knowledge on the subject.
I'm not sure if MAYA will fit the 2nd gen TL.
!
