99TLhot

so when to honda Dealer to get some AFT for my Acura CLs they give me the honda ATF-WD1 instead the regular ATF-Z1 fluit that i use to get, so my question is, is there any difference between them two before i change it?

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

I think it's DW-1, and it's the new type of automatic ATF. They don't make the old Z1 anymore. The new fluid is fully synthetic, and has been getting good reviews.

Worst case scenario, it will make no difference.

TampaJim

ATF DW-1 was developed for improved low temperature performance. It is to be used on 2011, and newer, model-year vehicles, and it is backwards compatible to previous model years. ATF DW-1 is the primary ATF for Honda and Acura vehicles.

pickler

oh god another thread...dw1 is synthetic, z1 is petro based.

99TLhot

so it is ok to use dw1 and mix with z1 ?

Gfaze

Yes

99TLhot

thanks every one for the help

webmastir

<--see avatar. it applies here

Sperry

iTrader: (1)

It is more expensive !

TampaJim

The difference between Z-1 and DW-1 is viscosity and the additive package. Both are petroleum products.

TampaJim

Only 7% to the dealer. It is a tad more expensive to manufacture.

Skirmich

Im pretty sure DW-1 is Synthetic
Canadian Bottles:

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Do your HW properly before offering advise silly. Or at least say maybe, if your not 100% on it.

TampaJim

It is petroleum based. It is made from Group III base stock. This means it is made from crude oil, but goes through a process called hydrocracking.

Only Group IV (PAO) and Group V (Ester) base stocks are not petroleum based.

I am not offering advice, in this case, just information.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Damn man, I dunno wtf your talking about. I'll take your word for it.

So there's overlap between petro based and fully synthetic? Is there a wiki page I could read up on this?

TampaJim

There are FIVE groups of lubricants ... Group I through Group V. The first three are all refined from crude oil. The latter two are made from non-petroleum components.

The best explanation that I can give on Group III would be this:

Imagine that crude oil has 50 elements, each with equal parts. In the case of a Group III lubricant, it is completely taken apart in a lengthy refining process (hydrocracking - blasting with hydrogen to "disassemble"). After that, the undesirable elements are discarded and the desirable elements are reassembled in a specific order AND with specific amounts of each. In many countries, these Group III lubricants are called "Full Synthetic", while others ban the practice and reserve the term "Full Synthetic" for products with 100% Group IV and/or Group V content. While Group III base stocks are fully reengineered, fully redesigned and completely different than crude oil - they are petroleum-based lubricants.

Group IV (PAO) and Group V (Ester) are getting more involved daily. They have been used to "boost" motor oils for some time. Acura RDX Ultimate is one example. It is a Group III interlaced with a Group IV. This offers additional heat protection for the turbo package. It specifically meets the Honda HTO-06 specification. Anyone owning a RDX should be fully aware of this and be sure NOT to introduce an oil that doesn't meet/exceed the HTO-06 requirement. In addition, there are motor oils which are based solely on Group IV and/or Group V stock. While they do have some advantages, there are also disadvantages ... as with everything else in life.

I did find a Wiki page with information. It isn't perfect, but it is close enough ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lubricant.

Skirmich

And where we can see if DW-1 is Group III? From the Smell of it, It does look and smell like AMSOIL Full Synthetic or that is Group III as well??

In any case for the OP just use DW-1.

TampaJim

It is Group III. You definitely can't tell based on smell, touch, taste or any other easy method. As a matter of fact, it is VERY difficult to discern Group I from Group II from Group III without a battery of expensive tests.

In this particular case, you will have to take my word for it. If it were Group IV or Group V, you would be assured of the fact when you entered the parts department ... they are considerably more expensive base stocks.

In respect to the AMSOIL product, I quickly reviewed the technical data (PDS and MSDS) available on their website and it does appear to be a Group III based product. In addition, it seems to be more expensive than Honda/Acura ATF DW-1.

fsttyms1

Its not a full syn, it even says on the bottle contains petroleum oil. So its most likely a Group 3 (which in america can be called a syn even though its not a full syn)

RC99TL

Nice posts Tampa Jim.

99TLhot

ok ok everyone get along please .....

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Hmm, I think you misunderstood the situation. As far as I can tell, this thread was pretty informative. No one arguing here. Jim enlightened us upon the truth of full synthetic.

Skirmich

So what about Redline everyone is so Positive about? Is it Group 3 aswell? or its really fully SYN (That could Point why is so Damn Expensive).

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

If Amsoil is group 3, then Redline might also be. Still, since Redline advertises fully synthetic so heavily, it's probably group 4 or 5.

rich9

Hello,

For 2000 TL's, or even older cars, i.e. acuras/hondas. If I initially usw ATF-Z1, then now I change with 3.2 quarts of DW-1, for a 60-65 dollar transmission service.

Is that acceptable, will that be okay even though the transmission has over 75k-115k miles on it.

Thanks for any advice.

03TLKEV

Quick question... Going to the dealer to get my SRS light checked out. While I'm there I am thinking of getting a trans service (drain and fill). They are using the new fluid, if they just do the 1 drain and fill, is it ok that the 2 different fluids are mixed? Or do I need to do the fill 3x3? Thanks

Skirmich

There´s No difference if they Mix Fluids tough, You will not see any benefits until the 3X3.... In short is OK to Mix both Z1 and DW-1.

Gfaze

Fully synthetic, no petroleum products according to them.

http://www.redlineoil.com/whyRedline.aspx