CP13

Suggestion: Can you order a TC from advance or autozone for an 06/07 accord and see if those work? If it does, then something is really wrong with the part that Rockauto sent you... then maybe you can just return that part to them claiming that that they sent you a wrong one...
When I did my swap, I just reused that one that came from the used AV6 transmission without any issues whatsoever.

Operationalist

^ You're right CP13. That's probably the most cost- and time-effective way of resolving this. The bottom line is I need another (fourth?) opinion on the measurement for an AV6 TC bolt pattern. Autozone I think lets you return shipped orders for free. I'll just order one from them and see if it matches or not.

SuperGreg

Here is a pic of my flex plate, I can't imagine a different one that could be any bigger.

Operationalist

^Much appreciated. I think I may even see a part no. printed on there. I'll compare it to mine and see if any of the characters are a match. Just eyeballing it though, that looks very similar to mine in terms of the gap to the left there between the housing and the plate's edge.

Krwlnzj

The flex plates are matched up with the TC if I'm not mistaken. I replaced my transmission with the same exact model number transmission and the TC that came with it was a different size and it came with a different size flex plate. I had to learn the hard way and pull the transmission a second time.

Operationalist

Many thanks again to the users above that advised along my way. Turns out the correct TC for my application was a Dacco HO21. Neither Autozone nor the dealership had it listed as the correct part for a 2006 Accord V6. Ultimately a rep with Dacco itself told me the correct part for the AV6 (as well as the TL) was HO21 with a 11.25" bolt pattern.

I have no idea why there was so much conflicting information out there. I still suspect there may be BAYA transmissions with differing TC/flexplate bolt patterns in existence, but for my purposes this nightmare is finally over. Happily on the road with my completed AV6-swapped TL-S tomorrow afternoon.

Skirmich

You will love it.. If you know the feel of the TL-S to the limits you will notice how the TC creates a completely different pick up acceleration..
1 thing you will notice is that TC lock up is a little "abrupt" this is normal and a consequence of using different hardware on the OEM ECU its probably the only bad "cosmetic" thing I can say about it.. If you drive in SS you wont notice it, Its only felt on D5 and doesn´t affect anything.

g2tegra

First post!
Can I just add a big THANK YOU for this write up? My 03 CL AT transmission just went out on me last week at 227k. It had a good run. No CEL or lights on the dash, just 2nd and 3rd were giving me a really hard hesitation. Checked the fluid, clean and full. Took it home and parked it, unsure of what my next move was. Shops were quoting me upwards of $3,000 to rebuild. The car is only worth $2500 at best, as it has had new OEM PPG paint in the last year. Beautiful car, big and heavy what a shame to let it go after 4.5 years of bliss.
Well swapping the AV6 transmission changes my situation dramatically. Now to find a buddy or a shop who will do the swap. Thanks again, I'm hoping to be a success story! -Tina
P.S. a 6spd CLS swap would be an option if not for my recent left foot surgery and my other car is a FoST so I need an auto for now.....

mastini

iTrader: (6)

Hey guys, let me ask you a couple questions.

First part...

I did my 06 AV6 swap in 2013, but didn't drive the car that much, really under 1k km since then.
Last year i've noticed a little oil leak that would come and go, finally i added trace dye and it looks like it's coming from rear main seal.
I don't see any other place it would come from...

When I replaced transmission I've used TC that came with tranny; since i'll be dropping transmission to fix rear main seal, should I also install new TC?
What else should I check or change while it's all apart?

Second part of the question.

I've been testing it a bit and transmission doesn't feel that smooth like everyone says here. When i'm in manual mode, it shift instantly.
But when i'm in D5 feels like it's a bit lost.
Also, sometimes i feel a delay between reverse and drive. Could it be solenoids? I've tried today while it was cold and hot and delay was really short, but i'm pretty sure it was closer to 3 secs.
Another thing that feels weird - is a small impact while switching between reverse and drive. Engine mounts look good..
Is it TC related


Skirmich, is that "abrupt" feeling you are talking about?

Skirmich

Sup "mastini"
1.- Nope the TC only needs to be replaced when its damaged or when its used (Because of old debris).
2.- I don´t have any of the issues you mention my D to R is smooth and R to D as well in fact it shifts faster to Drive from Park than the original Trans... Perhaps you have solenoid clogging issues, You should really have gotten a new TC when you installed the AV6 so it might be the best time to do it but from your description I think you might wanna clean your solenoids specially the A & B.

The issue, Well I would not call it issue more likely just a miss match in Software Tune from the ECU and using a transmission that didn´t come with the car.. When driving in D5 (Full Auto) and the TC locks at highway speeds (4th or 5th gear) I can feel it a little abruptly, Like its instant without any slip at all.. The best description I can give its like dumping the clutch in a manual when in gear... TC lock is not smooth as it were on the OEM Trans, If I use it on Sport Shift I don´t feel the TC lock at all so I really blame the ECU but I cant do anything about it. What I do now is If I am going into a ramp or highway is to use SS to lock the TC and then drop into D5 this way I can avoid that TC lock feel.

Sam Spear

Thanks to everybody who added valuable information to this thread. To anybody debating on whether or not you should attempt this job: GO FOR IT!!! It really isn't hard, and the transmission feels and operates better than stock.

Operationalist

Update: The used '06 AV6 trans is finally into my '02 TL-S using a reman Dacco HO21 torque converter. Everyone's testimony is accurate... the pickup feels much quicker in this trans than my old one. Added bonus: shifting from R to D is lightning fast compared to my old trans.

A couple problems persist though. I noticed early on (maybe 10 miles) that my D5 light on the HUD was out. I tried sportshift out of curiosity... no gear numbers on the HUD, and no response to manual controls up or down. Dropped down to D4, D3, 2, and 1 at the next chance and all lit up no problem (N and P also light up no problem). Also noticed on the highway that the throttle seemed to behave strangely. The RPM drops pretty fast when I release the accelerator, and I get no mechanical drag to slow me down as I'd expect after lockup. My guess is that the TC lockup is not working properly. For reference: ~65mph = ~2100rpm.

Then I got about 100 miles onto my new setup before I got Christmas lights (VSA, Check Engine, [Traction Control '!']) Pulled the code and I have "confirmed: P0740 Torque Converter Clutch Circuit/Open" as well as "pending: P1706 (no description)." 1706 seems to have something to do with the range switch. Oddly enough 1706 magically disappeared the next day, but 0740 is still on.

I went to the Honda dealer and got a printout of the Trans diagram (attached to this post) and asked for names of solenoids. Apparently the combination of 8 and 11 are for lockup. The other 4 have vague names (linear, sol A, sol B) so not sure exactly what each does. In any event, I pulled top-mounted Sol A (black plug), identical bottom-mounted Sol A (black plug), and bottom-mounted linear Sol (#8), and cleaned each screen, then tested with alligator clips to the battery. Each clicked fine. Unfortunately I've misplaced my multimeter, so can't test resistance until I find it.

If anyone has had similar issues, and especially if you managed to resolve those issues, please let me know! I'll... mail you a beer or something.

Skirmich

Yeah I believe your issue is with the Range Switch,
Did you swap the AV6 Range Switch and used your old Range Switch per the AV6 Swap Instructions? Perhaps the range switch is miss aligned or worn out. In any case most of the times the Gear Lights and SS Number dont light up is because the Range Switch is going out.

Operationalist

I did swap over the range switch according to the instructions. Oddly enough, D5 illuminated for a minute or so on the highway yesterday. I tried SS, and it worked as well. Went back to D5, and about 10 seconds later it went out again. I'm starting to think it might be a bad wiring harness.

musiclevelz5

A P0740 code means your clutch in the torque converter is bad. Most likely you will need to buy a new or reman tc to install and your code should go away.

Operationalist

^ I installed a reman TC with this trans. I figure the problem has to be with a solenoid or wiring. Car seems to be driving fine though, so I'm not in much of a hurry to fix it at the moment. I'll post an update if I manage to resolve the check engine light.

they007

This yesterday morning I finished swapping the transmission on my 2003 TL type S. I only have 155k miles on the engine, and only 120k on this transmission as the original died around 30k and was replaced by the dealer. The TL has been sitting for 15 months waiting for the swap to finally happen. I got a used AV6 from LKQ which I think had around 80k miles on it. I had a similar problem to Operationalist with finding the right torque converter. The first one Autozone offered me was obviously too small when compared to the TQ that came with the AV6. They found what we thought was the right sized one, but it turns out to be just a bit too small. I think it was an HO18. I ordered an HO21 and it fits the flex plate. We followed the instructions here and swapped the heater/cooler and range switch.

Everything seemed to be working well for the first test drive, but on the second run (after a car wash and engine oil change) the Check engine, VSA and ! lights came on. We pulled the codes and it was a P0740. This is listed as a lock-up control system. We've been doing some testing/troubleshooting and it appears that this code only happens when in 5th gear. I spent over an hour driving in D4 @ 55-60mph at around 2k-2.5k rpm and the code never appeared, but within 10 minutes of switching to D5 I'll get the code. My understanding is that lock-up is getting/keeping the transmission into 5th gear? I can go 65mph in 5th at 2k rpm, and 80 is only around 2.5k rpm, so it doesn't seem like things are slipping or having problems. I've driven it quite a lot over the last few days and it is driving great. We have some spare solenoid valves we can swap for the torque converter clutch solenoid valve from the other transmission, and those are only around $30 to replace. The other one listed for this trouble code is the A/T clutch pressure control solenoid valve C, which is $220+. I'm hesitant to spend another $220 if I'm not very certain it will resolve the problem. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone with an AV6 actually fixed (long term) the p0740 error by changing those valves?

02tljj

Just wanted to report back after 20 months since my AV6 swap (bought from junkyard with 73,000km) on my 02 TL. The AV6 is still running great after 30,000 kms. I now almost have 190,000km on my TL. Only one time and all of a sudden, I noticed a lag in shift between 1st and 2nd when accelerating very slowly and was always repeatable. It was because the ATF was low and adding about 200ml of ATF fixed the problem. I have no idea why the fluid dropped. Probably a leak somewhere but I don't see it.

Other than that, the TL still drives fine but the dash is lit up like a xmas tree. CEL, TCS, ABS, etc... lol

I recently got a 2004 Acura TL with 165,000km on it for a price I cannot refuse (free). It seems to be rock solid and I hope to get that insured next year. In the meantime, I'll keep driving my 02 TL but I'm having an itch to the drive the 04 TL now. It looks better and probably drives better too. I hope it doesn't have the same tranny reputation as our 2nd gens. From what I read, forums member complain it sucks too but judging from my research, it doesn't fail as often.

mastini

iTrader: (6)

I think it's exactly the same problem. 07+ that's when they 'fixed' design flow.

SuperGreg

Yeah I know someone with an '04 TL, they just put a new tranny in. Car has around 100K miles. She said they paid $4,500!! I had just put the AV6 in my TL-S for $900.

Iggy

10K on my AV6(donor had 50k) and still going strong. Just did a single drain and fill and the fluid was pristine.

Operationalist

Hey they007. Sorry for the late reply... Just wanted to notify you that I'm experiencing word-for-word the exact same symptoms that you are. I've managed to put another 10k or so on my trans in the meantime despite the lingering issues. The one drawback I've noticed is that my new trans gets a little lost looking for TC lockup/"5th gear" under WOT. But as long as I accelerate up to highway speed at ~75% throttle or lower everything seems to operate smoothly.

I also did a 3qt drain and fill very recently. Seems like I probably have a slow trans leak somewhere around the TC and bell housing, but besides that the fluid I drained was pretty clean and the drain magnet didn't seem overly gunked. I too am hesitant to drop a bunch of money on solenoids or harnesses without some certainty that it will resolve my problems.

TO ALL FUTURE AV6 SWAPPERS: Please take a measurement of your flexplate/torque converter diameter during your installation and post it in this thread (measure from center of bolt hole to opposite center of bolt hole). It could be invaluable info to those of us like they007 and myself to know if others are using the 10.75" flexplate/TC (e.g. Dacco HO18) as opposed to our 11.25" flexplate/TC (e.g. Dacco HO21). Also, a post-installation update describing whether or not you have experienced the same P0740 CEL and TCS / "!" light-up would be instructive as well. Thank you to anyone in advance who can help us out.

If it appears that others use a 10.75" flexplate/TC and do not experience the same problems, I'm inclined to crack mine open again and swap in a 10.75" setup before the end of this year.

Skirmich

Mine haven´t popped a P0740 and I have now over 3K with the AV6 Swap.
but still same issue with TC Lock Up at highway speeds and in Full Auto, It wont hesitate to lock the TC in SS.

Kyle Heerdt

Hi, owner of 01 CL 3.2 auto

bad transmission! Want to swap.

all I find to read about is "TL" & not "CL"

what are the replacement transmission options?

Thank you greatly for your knowledge!

-Kyle

MBP 03

Same options for the CL as the TL since they share the same powertrain.

musiclevelz5

The CL is exactly like the TL but with two doors not four. All else is the same.
​​

Kyle Heerdt

& MBP 03

thanks gents!

Tyman

I stumbled onto this thread and would like to say "Thank You" for the great write up! My 03 Type S is starting to show signs of failure, and this may be the saving grace for it.
I do have a favor to ask, does anyone have the pictures for the how-to? It seems the links are no longer working at this time. Thanks.

Skirmich

Look back a couple of pages, I uploaded the guide in PDF form.

Original Post #540.
Link: https://www.scribd.com/document/3007...nsmission-Swap

GeorgeC99TL

Id like to thank everyone that contributed to this thread. The trans on my 03 TL finally went out at 205k. I did the swap myself (following this thread) and have a few concerns. It does not like it when I gate shift from D4 to D5. It feels like the trans is slipping. But all other gears shift fine. It only happens when i shift from D4 to D5. If i leave it in D5 then there's no problem. Trans has about 80k miles and im using Valvoline max life synthetic fluid. Do you guys think my trans is bad or would it be a sensor issue? Thanks in advance

-George

indoMFP

Where are you guys going to get the 06/07 Honda transmission? Can you just buy a re-manufactured one from from a shop?

Skirmich

^ You can but will run you down about 2.5-3K for a Remano Trans which by our today car value is basically buying a whole new TL.
Also is highly unlikely they will honor the Warranty if its in the wrong car.

WDPTLS

Hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm in the process of doing the AV6 swap myself. My 03 TL-S TC has a measurement of 11.25 and the donor AV6 TC has a measurement of 10.75. Would I be able to use this or do I need to order the Dacco HO21? Any help is greatly appreciated.

Skirmich

Just to be perfectly CLEAR the TC in the AV6 did not fit the holes in the Flexplate? Because the AV6 Torque Converter is actually SMALLER than the OE TC in the TL... The main issue here is that the incorrect TC wont bolt on to the flexplate due to the holes not lining up.

AGAIN:
The Correct AV6 Torque Converter is SMALLER than the Original TL TC but it WILL bolt on to the Flex Plate...
The Incorrect AV6 Torque Converter is SMALLER than the Original TL TC but it WONT bolt on to the Flex Plate....

Smaller in this case does not mean weaker, The TC in the AV6 is actually way more efficient in design and makes the car Accelerate Faster.

WDPTLS

Hi,

Thanks for this invaluable information. Is there anything really wrong with using a 2005 transmission? Is it weaker or have any issues compared to the 06-07 transmissions? I will be speaking to the junk yard today and deciding whether I want another transmission or just ordering the TC off of RockAuto for $105.

Iggy

you may actually have an '06 trans IF the converter fits your TL flex plate. I did some checking on OEM parts and the 06 Accord lists the same flex plate as the TL but the 05 accord lists a different flex plate which is not the same as the TL.

Pull the flex plate off your TL and hold it up to the AV6 converter you got from the junkyard, if the bolt holes line up then it would stand to reason that your AV6 transmission is correct for this swap. Also, the fact that the harness plug from your AV6 is different than your TL plug indicates you have a 06 transmission.

Basically the same as what Skirmich said just worded a little differently

Skirmich

You can use it for sure, we go for the 06-07 models because of the possible lower mileage in them, If it is a BAYA it should be as good as the 06-07 "Supposedly".

WDPTLS

Just ordered the HO21 TC. Hoping for the best!

paulywog

Hey Im new here and new to my 01 acura cl s I just got it a month ago. Well guess what?? After reading 16 pages of this thread I am going to to do the swap! Im a retired mechanic and it seems pretty straight forward. Gonna try to find a 06 07 accord v6 tranny. wish me luck!

Skirmich

Good Luck man!