marso

Completed today. Shifts well but third gear has a whine like the original tranny. Not too bad of a task did it in my driveway.

Iggy

Good job man! I've read of at least one other user(maybe more) who had some whining/noise after the install that seemed to get quieter with use. The speculation was that the trans might have been
sitting on the shelf or outside for a while and had some surface rust on some some of the bearings internally that washed away with use. Hope that is your case.

Do you know anything about the donor car and how long ago the transmission was removed from it?

Would recommend a 3X3 drain and fill after 1,000 miles (just a random number) and see what happens.

Merry XMas

05rl02tl

marso

Iggy, the transmission was supposedly rebuilt. I had a transmission shop get a core from an 07 Accord and rebuild it with warranty. Unfortunately as soon as I said "successful" I had a leak from the end cover gasket and it chatters shifting from 1st to 2nd like the original. Not happy after all that work.

Skirmich

Congratulations man welcome to the club!

Iggy

Marso,
Did the whine ever subside? Also, Do you notice any weird TC lockup issues when shifting from 4th to 5th(overdrive)?

On mine when it transitions to lockup, I notice a few hundred RPM increase for a second or two before it settles in and kind of slams into overdrive if I'm aggressive with the throttle. It doesn't do this when using sport shift.

SuperGreg

I also have the same odd shift between 4->5.

Iggy

^^ Yeah, I think Skirmich also. I wonder if changing out the TQ to an aftermarket TL one would eliminate that. I"m getting ready for a J35 transplant so I might give it a shot.

marso

No. I pulled the end cover to fix the leak and found the builder didn't remove the old end cover gasket so it had two gaskets which is why it leaked. Then while looking over the trans I saw the builder also didn't stake the three locknuts on the shaft ends so I pulled the tranny and now in a credit card dispute because any idiot that puts a new gasket over an old and doesn't stake a locknut needs to be put out of business. If one of those nuts came off it would have been catastrophic. Now in the process of getting another trans from a different builder. I'll let you know how it goes.

Factory TQs are garbage. Get a rebuilt. Even a new factory TQ is garbage and a big reason the trannys fail. There is also a TQ lockup solenoid on the top of the tranny. Replace it they are not expensive. I bought all new Rostra performance solenoids for mine. Less expensive than factory, made in the USA.

I found out from a Honda specific builder that the whine is cause by the bore in the case where the bearings are pressed in wearing out. The bearing moves in the bore causing the gears to have more clearance creating the whine as the teeth slap together while turning just like a differential that is out of tolerance or worn. The fix is the hole is bored out and a steel sleeve is pressed in which permanently stops the whine.

Skirmich

Ditto on the 4 to 5th shift which is not related to the shift at all its basically the automatic TC lockup when releasing the throttle locking up hard when you let go of the throttle.
I noticed it that if you let it shift on WOT it wont do it so its definitely the TC lockup not matching up to something in order to smoothly engage under full D5, It wont do it at all under sport shift (Which is what I always drive with anyway) so I have´t had that issue in many months.

marso

Doesn't the sport shift keep the TQ locked?

Skirmich

No, In any case it prevents it from locking up early. Having the TC locked will destroy your performance which is what Sport Shift tries to gain by holding the Gears.
You can force TC lock in Sport Shift by simply releasing the Throttle Entirely, It will smoothly engage it like it should do in Full D5 but it doesn´t and I don´t know why.

Iggy

So I'm wondering if the Accord TC is designed a little differently than the TL converter. Difference in vehicle weight, ECU, engine power........that kind of thing that would cause the strange lockup. In you guy's opinion, would replacing the Accord converter with a TL-s converter solve this mystery?

Marso, I don't think it's the lockup solenoid as it's the same part number between Accord and TL. I could be wrong though.

marso

The factory part number for an 06 07 Accord TC is the same as an 05-06 TL 26000-RGL-345. The 99-03 TL is 26000-P8F-335. Apparently they are the same housing being they fit but I presume the internals were reworked due to the constant problems.

I just mentioned the lockup solenoid because you said there was a problem with the lockup and it is a possible source of your problem. They are the same part number. Did you swap for another? I had a long conversation with the technician at Rostra Performance. They make aftermarket sensors and solenoids for our car and he said the solenoids can check out fine with Ohms and function but the piston and bore are metal to metal so the bore wears out causing fluid bypass which lowers line pressure causing shudder and disengagement. There is no way to check for this without using a pressure gauge on the port and doing a functional test. Our trannies are one of the few with individual pressure test ports for each gear. I believe there is a test you can do to see if the computer is also functioning properly. I have the factory service manual so can check for you if you want. I'm not sure who on Acurazine is a long time knowledgeable member and who isn't so if you already know please don't take it as me being a know it all. I'm just transferring knowledge if able.

marso

That's interesting. I thought the Sport Shift kept it locked to simulate a manual. Always good to learn knew stuff.

Iggy

appreciate the response. If my setup was the only one with issues I would be looking at solenoids and such but it seems to be a common annoyance reported by several users here. It could be something
the AV6 crowd just has to put up with.

marso

I just looked at the Transtar torque converter catalog and the part number for the TL converter is an HO80, A BAYA Honda is HO79. According to the catalog they are the same except the bolt circle on the BAYA is smaller. Stall is the same. It doesn't give year just number application by transmission code. Aren't people using the 06-07 AV6 converters in the 02-03 TL? The catalog doesn't say the 06-07 AV6 has a larger bolt circle it just shows BAYA. The rebuild kits and Sonnax parts are the same for the AV6 and TL. I tried to add a link to the catalog but Azine wouldn't let it save.

Skirmich

I don´t think has anything to do with the TC, Its something via Software for sure.. This is why you cant mimic the hard lock up when using Sport Shift.
If anything hardware wise was to be blamed (TC) it will malfunction every single time regardless of mode. So I think this issue is more tied to the fact we are not using the AV6 original ECU and the reason it works alright is because the AV6 ECU does NOT have a Sport Shift Mode.
Perhaps the ECU on the original AV6 shifts the TC lock up at the same rate as our TL do so in Sport Shift that is why it feels right on Sport Shift.. Once we try to do the same on Full D5 something goes amok, Probably the rate in which it does it on Full D5 is too strong and the AV6 has a faster TC Lock Up that does not match up with that algorithm..

So I think:
AV6 ECU Lock Up =/= TL ECU Sport Shift Lock Up
TL ECU D5 Lock Up =/= N/A on AV6 ECU

That is why it abruptly locks it up on full D5.

marso

According to Transtar the TCs have the same internals so I don't know how the ECU would know the difference between TCs. The rebuilt AV6 trans and TC I installed had no problem in the 4-5 transition. It actually worked well except the 1-2 shudder which was exactly the same as the original so I'm thinking the B side of the Dual Linear is worn out allowing a pressure drop. I have two 02 TL-S and they both have the 1-2 shudder. I have put 50k miles on my other one with the original TL tranny with the shudder. Other than the shudder it works perfect. I'm going to adjust the B side pressure screw to see if the shudder will decrease or be eliminated.

Skirmich

What everyone else here and Myself are complaining about is a Noticeable hard lock up of the TC when releasing the throttle on D5.
Not how it shifts from 4 to 5.. In my AV6 4 to 5 shifts like my old Trans if anything it shifts faster.

Have you noticed this? quickly way to trigger it is by driving normally in low engine load and waiting until it shifts to 5th the TC lock up at least in my car will lock up the TC pretty hard and its very noticeable on D5.
It wont do that if I am driving in Sport Shift.

Its not something to be concerned about its simply not "Luxurious" and it didn´t do it on the OG Trans... I will take that abrupt TC lock to a suicide transmission any day of the year though.

Iggy

^^ Agreed. Not so much of a "problem" but more of a nuisance. I was hoping it might be solved with something simple like a TC swap but you are likely correct that it's a transmission/ECU compatability issue.
I'll gladly put up with it knowing I have a reliable drivetrain.

marso

Oh, I understand now. No, I never had the problem with the rebuilt units. The odd part is what is the PCM and/or ECU picking up as different when all the sensors and solenoids are the same, the rebuild kits are the same, the TC internals are the same? Maybe something in the valve bodies are different in the factory units but the same aftermarket parts used in both rebuilds so it no longer does it? Are you using DW1 or a different fluid? Some people here use Redline or Amsoil.

cls6life

I am in the market for doing this swap however, after reading this I am a little nervous. Can you explain what that "5th" gear lockup is please. Is it a bad noise, hard clunk? Much appreciated!

thelastaspec

I've been running MaxLife ATF with no ill effects on my AV6 swap. It's been running great for the past 20,000 km or so of city driving and autocross. I did have a faulty connector one one of my solenoids, which I repaired by taking one off of my original transmission. I got the AV6 fairly early - after the first person figured out how to do and posted, my transmission went.

marso

How did you find out the connector was faulty? Did the ECU throw a code?

thelastaspec

It wouldn't shift into certain gears and wouldnt start in first if I recall correctly.
Cross referenced with service manual what solenoid combinations produce what gear selections.
Started checking connections, found one of them had burnt up its pins.

I'm an EE, electrical troubleshooting typically is pretty instinctual.
Just be methodical and you'll track down the problem.