03 TL-S 6 speed swap
10-18-2018, 06:30 AM
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03 TL-S 6 speed swap
Hey guys! Ok so I did the 6 speed manual swap from the cl-s but I use the automatic engine that came with the car and now the vtech isn’t working. As of right now the only codes I have on the car is for the transaxle Solenoid And transaxle temperature sensor. I assume the vtech is directly linked to this but not 100% sure. Any ideas of how I can get it to work again? Thanks
10-19-2018, 06:39 AM
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10-19-2018, 07:03 AM
#4
Suzuka Master
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You are using the automatic ECU that came with the TLS?
You are using the engine harness that came with the TLS?
So you are still using the automatic J32A2 that came with the TLS?
You have not changed the clutch/brake pedal assembly or swapped the six speed shifter assembly?
All you did was 'put the...CLS6...gear box in...?'
Last edited by zeta; 10-19-2018 at 07:07 AM.
10-19-2018, 09:04 AM
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10-19-2018, 11:30 AM
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10-19-2018, 12:19 PM
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This brought me out of periodic lurking mode.
10-19-2018, 08:02 PM
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You are using the automatic ECU that came with the TLS?
You are using the engine harness that came with the TLS?
So you are still using the automatic J32A2 that came with the TLS?
You have not changed the clutch/brake pedal assembly or swapped the six speed shifter assembly?
All you did was 'put the...CLS6...gear box in...?'
10-19-2018, 11:04 PM
#11
Suzuka Master
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So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
10-20-2018, 04:18 AM
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Interesting.
So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
No I didn’t
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
No I didn’t
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
no I didn’t
10-20-2018, 04:21 AM
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Interesting.
So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
the only code code that came up was for the transaxle solenoid and transaxle temperature sensor
10-20-2018, 04:25 AM
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Interesting.
So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
So did you swap over, to your automatic J32A2, the timing belt drive pulley and reluctor wheel, timing belt stopper plate, crankshaft sensor A and wiring assembly; front head cam pulley and cam sensors/wire assembly from the manual transmission J32A2 to make it 6-speed compatible, as Karanx7 inquired above?
Did you use an old RV6 harness to mate the automatic ECU by any chance? Usually, when a 6-speed swap is performed on an automatic TLS, the manual transmission ECU and related engine harness', and such, are utilized to make it 'plug and play' as much as possible.
Are there any p0335, p0336 crankshaft sensor codes? The only reason I ask is that there is another crankshaft sensor B located on the 6-speed transmission.
These are the important DETAILS, asked for in a prior post above, that are needed to HELP you figure out why your VTEC; transmission; and any other codes appear as a result of your swap.
10-20-2018, 07:12 AM
#15
Suzuka Master
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This is what I know:
Unless you have found a way to 'trick' the automatic TLS ECU (by re-pinning, or using the old RichieV6 harness; or the use of a standalone) it is not compatible with your new CLS6 manual transmission. That is why when this 'swap' is performed a 'donor' CLS6 car is best to use so that you can harvest all of the needed parts from it to make your 03 TLS six speed compatible. That includes the manual ECU; related engine/cabin harness'; and engine timing components mentioned above et. al.
For example, If I wanted to use your automatic '03 TLS J32A2 in my '03 CLS6 because I fried a piston, I would need to convert it, with the engine timing components mentioned above, to make it compatible with my manual transmission factory configuration.
Last edited by zeta; 10-20-2018 at 07:15 AM.
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zeta (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 08:24 AM
#17
Three Wheelin'
I'm finding it hard to believe that there are only two codes present with this configuration(multiple transmission harness connectors unplugged). How does the speedometer work without the countershaft speed sensor? There should be multiple codes related to the transmission shift circuits and torque converter. The ABS system should be throwing codes shouldn't it?.
The reason the VTEC isn't working is that the ECU can't determine vehicle speed because it's looking for inputs from an automatic transmission. Car needs to be moving for VTEC to work.
A quick google search I found this:
The ECU is constantly comparing the torque curves of the low and high speed camshafts. It calculates the expected volumetric efficiency of the engine based on the current environmental conditions (air temperature and pressure) and the engine conditions (temperature, engine load, throttle position), and then derives the expected torque from the volumetric efficiency for each camshaft. Most of this has to be done anyhow in order to determine how much fuel to inject. When conditions are right (the revs are over about 4500 rpm, the engine is warm, there is enough oil pressure to activate the pistons and the car is moving) the ECU will switch from the low to high speed camshaft when the expected torque of the low speed camshaft equals the torque of the high speed camshaft. The ECU closes a solenoid valve that then forces engine oil, under pressure, along the camshafts to active the third rocker arm.
I'm thinking you have a LOT more work to do to make this work.
The reason the VTEC isn't working is that the ECU can't determine vehicle speed because it's looking for inputs from an automatic transmission. Car needs to be moving for VTEC to work.
A quick google search I found this:
The ECU is constantly comparing the torque curves of the low and high speed camshafts. It calculates the expected volumetric efficiency of the engine based on the current environmental conditions (air temperature and pressure) and the engine conditions (temperature, engine load, throttle position), and then derives the expected torque from the volumetric efficiency for each camshaft. Most of this has to be done anyhow in order to determine how much fuel to inject. When conditions are right (the revs are over about 4500 rpm, the engine is warm, there is enough oil pressure to activate the pistons and the car is moving) the ECU will switch from the low to high speed camshaft when the expected torque of the low speed camshaft equals the torque of the high speed camshaft. The ECU closes a solenoid valve that then forces engine oil, under pressure, along the camshafts to active the third rocker arm.
I'm thinking you have a LOT more work to do to make this work.
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zeta (10-20-2018)
10-20-2018, 08:39 AM
#18
Suzuka Master
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^
To say the least, that's why I mentioned the p0335, p0336 codes. Good money says that that crankshaft sensor on the transmission is just sitting there looking pretty with no inputs to an automatic ECU because it's not hooked up by an engine wire harness that has its respectable connector.
Is it to early to state
that the OP did not do his 'homework', lol.
To say the least, that's why I mentioned the p0335, p0336 codes. Good money says that that crankshaft sensor on the transmission is just sitting there looking pretty with no inputs to an automatic ECU because it's not hooked up by an engine wire harness that has its respectable connector.
Is it to early to state
that the OP did not do his 'homework', lol.
10-20-2018, 08:53 AM
#19
Three Wheelin'
10-21-2018, 08:26 AM
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^
To say the least, that's why I mentioned the p0335, p0336 codes. Good money says that that crankshaft sensor on the transmission is just sitting there looking pretty with no inputs to an automatic ECU because it's not hooked up by an engine wire harness that has its respectable connector.
Is it to early to state that the OP did not do his 'homework', lol.
To say the least, that's why I mentioned the p0335, p0336 codes. Good money says that that crankshaft sensor on the transmission is just sitting there looking pretty with no inputs to an automatic ECU because it's not hooked up by an engine wire harness that has its respectable connector.
Is it to early to state
that the OP did not do his 'homework', lol.
10-21-2018, 08:32 AM
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I'm finding it hard to believe that there are only two codes present with this configuration(multiple transmission harness connectors unplugged). How does the speedometer work without the countershaft speed sensor? There should be multiple codes related to the transmission shift circuits and torque converter. The ABS system should be throwing codes shouldn't it?.
The reason the VTEC isn't working is that the ECU can't determine vehicle speed because it's looking for inputs from an automatic transmission. Car needs to be moving for VTEC to work.
A quick google search I found this:
The ECU is constantly comparing the torque curves of the low and high speed camshafts. It calculates the expected volumetric efficiency of the engine based on the current environmental conditions (air temperature and pressure) and the engine conditions (temperature, engine load, throttle position), and then derives the expected torque from the volumetric efficiency for each camshaft. Most of this has to be done anyhow in order to determine how much fuel to inject. When conditions are right (the revs are over about 4500 rpm, the engine is warm, there is enough oil pressure to activate the pistons and the car is moving) the ECU will switch from the low to high speed camshaft when the expected torque of the low speed camshaft equals the torque of the high speed camshaft. The ECU closes a solenoid valve that then forces engine oil, under pressure, along the camshafts to active the third rocker arm.
I'm thinking you have a LOT more work to do to make this work.
The reason the VTEC isn't working is that the ECU can't determine vehicle speed because it's looking for inputs from an automatic transmission. Car needs to be moving for VTEC to work.
A quick google search I found this:
The ECU is constantly comparing the torque curves of the low and high speed camshafts. It calculates the expected volumetric efficiency of the engine based on the current environmental conditions (air temperature and pressure) and the engine conditions (temperature, engine load, throttle position), and then derives the expected torque from the volumetric efficiency for each camshaft. Most of this has to be done anyhow in order to determine how much fuel to inject. When conditions are right (the revs are over about 4500 rpm, the engine is warm, there is enough oil pressure to activate the pistons and the car is moving) the ECU will switch from the low to high speed camshaft when the expected torque of the low speed camshaft equals the torque of the high speed camshaft. The ECU closes a solenoid valve that then forces engine oil, under pressure, along the camshafts to active the third rocker arm.
I'm thinking you have a LOT more work to do to make this work.
10-21-2018, 09:11 AM
#22
Suzuka Master
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10-21-2018, 09:45 AM
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10-21-2018, 10:43 AM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Here's a good place to start with a parts list at post #21......https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...2/#post8782025
Do some searches on this forum and there are a lot of threads explaining the ins and outs of this swap.
Do some searches on this forum and there are a lot of threads explaining the ins and outs of this swap.
10-21-2018, 10:51 AM
#25
Suzuka Master
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For example:
1) Purchase a CLS6 ECU if you are not going the AEM EMS V2 route.
2) Purchase all needed timing components for the automatic J32A2
3) Purchase the appropriate engine harness' to hook it all up.
4) So on and so forth.
OR
Yank out the CLS6 transmission, sell it and either do one of the following:
1) Install an automatic 06-07 accord V6 transmission
2) Purchase a CLS 6-speed
3) Purchase a 3rd gen TL 6-speed.
Food for thought.
10-22-2018, 05:58 AM
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Here's a good place to start with a parts list at post #21......https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...2/#post8782025
Do some searches on this forum and there are a lot of threads explaining the ins and outs of this swap.
Do some searches on this forum and there are a lot of threads explaining the ins and outs of this swap.
10-22-2018, 06:00 AM
#27
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Sorry, I meant in the approach to solving your current issues with making your swap a success?
For example:
1) Purchase a CLS6 ECU if you are not going the AEM EMS V2 route.
2) Purchase all needed timing components for the automatic J32A2
3) Purchase the appropriate engine harness' to hook it all up.
4) So on and so forth.
OR
Yank out the CLS6 transmission, sell it and either do one of the following:
1) Install an automatic 06-07 accord V6 transmission
2) Purchase a CLS 6-speed
3) Purchase a 3rd gen TL 6-speed.
Food for thought.
For example:
1) Purchase a CLS6 ECU if you are not going the AEM EMS V2 route.
2) Purchase all needed timing components for the automatic J32A2
3) Purchase the appropriate engine harness' to hook it all up.
4) So on and so forth.
OR
Yank out the CLS6 transmission, sell it and either do one of the following:
1) Install an automatic 06-07 accord V6 transmission
2) Purchase a CLS 6-speed
3) Purchase a 3rd gen TL 6-speed.
Food for thought.
10-22-2018, 06:59 AM
#28
Suzuka Master
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Just curious, if you don't mind me asking. If you do, forget about it.
Where or how did you get the 'notion' that, in performing this quite extensive swap, all you had to do was just 'drop-in' a manual CLS6 transmission, clutch/pedal assembly and shifter, and it would all work? Just interested how you got to this point in your thought processes.
Nevertheless, I hope it all works out to your liking.
Last edited by zeta; 10-22-2018 at 07:04 AM.
10-22-2018, 09:33 AM
#29
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Good luck finding a clean 2007-2008 TL Type-S with a 6MT; they are rare-rare-rare, and as such, expensive. If you do ultimately set your sights on that car, plan on upwards of 6-months to find the right car and budget roughly $15,000. Yes, I know clean examples can sometimes be had for less, but that is the rare find.
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