Type_S_Maniac

Hi everyone,

I've got a 02 TL-S with 241k miles and counting. I bought it in 2001 brand new and had the tranny replaced in 2004 under warranty at 40k miles. Besides that, I haven't had a single problem with the car. The timing belts been replaced twice on schedule.

However, since 2010 the transmission slips when cold or at WOT. After searching on this forum, many people have said that those are signs of the tranny dying very soon. Given my experience, its been 4 years and the car still drives fine other than the tranny slipping when cold or at WOT.

I'm trying to decide whether to keep driving it or finally replace the car as we head into winter. I don't want to be in a spot where the tranny dies and I have to search for a new car really quickly. I don't want to replace the tranny at this point since the car is worth maybe $2-3k.

What would you all do??

KatabaticSaint

If the tranny died tomorrow in my car it would suck (lately it has been shifting...harder?), but I wouldn't replace it. I'd strip it down part it out borrow a friends car for a couple weeks and buy something new, I'd hate having a car payment but maintenance is minimal in those first 30k (I only drive about 10k a year) and it'd probably last me somewhere between 8 and 10 years no worries no hassles (hopefully)

MarcDavidoff

OP- have you tried replacing the fluid? What does the fluid look like in it now? Maybe try a drain and fill one time with 3qts and drive it for a few days and see what happens. If no changes or seems to help, proceed with two more drain and refills. To be slipping like you mention since 2010 is pretty amazing

Skirmich

AV6 swap = 2K tops = Fixed transmission issue for life...

If you don't want to spend there is little you can do at this point.

01tl4tl

I am on a mission to have all questionable trans get a fluid exam from blackstone labs
20 bucks will tell you via mass spectrograph and human interpreter- whats in the fluid in what amounts, compared to every sample of same fluid and trans they have ever done! what metal from bearings and shaft or other parts- what amount clutch matter etc
that's a cheap start to know if there is death nearby, or just a major cleaning of things needs to occur
The typical symptom of clutch pack wearout is trans slips when shifting 2-3 on full throttle and D5 light on dash that you have never seen before-- flashes during the acceleration- probably goes back off afterwards and things return to normal once at freeway cruise

other clutch wearout sign is trans stops shifting 20-30 minutes into the drive- shut engine off 15-30 minutes and operation restored temporarily

Is it different when you use SS mode to upshift? higher line pressure in that mode will push fluid thru clogged lines?

STOP using full throttle !!!!
its still an old trans with weak flow, and 2004 is the old case design = not good flow to 3rd gear clutch in that design

3.2TLc

Hey Type_S_Maniac, ya basically have two choices.......
#1) Sell or trade the car right now and be done with it.
#2) Try doing some PM things such as fluid D&F, replace atf filter and clean or replace solenoids.

Then just run it till the tranny takes a shit and bolt in the "AV6" donor for about $1500 or so.

Seabright

At 240k, there may be more expenses coming other that the tranny. I would move on and get my next car.

The only reason I would keep it is for around $2.5K (tranny and some minor maintenance) I could would need a second car. But you know the car so you are in the best position to determine the risks.

01tl4tl

are the other main expensive parts solid/good? the power steering system, brakes and suspension all ck out?
do you keep up with fluid changes for those things? very important to the lifespan

be aware our mega moderator fsttyms1 (fast times won) has OVER 600,000 MILES on his 2000 TL sure its got a bigger engine and manual trans plus other goodies now, AND it gets driven on the street hundreds of miles in a day, and some afternoons it does some hot laps at a real racetrack where there is room to go actual top speed of the TL

have a pro look at the car and help your decision- IF the trans goes is it worth you doing the swap with an accord or odyssey trans for about 1500$ total and drive on for another 100k +
what can you buy for 2 grand - a car that needs 1-2 grand dropped in it!!

Type_S_Maniac

I've been doing a tranny drain and fill every 40k miles on schedule since the transmission was replaced with 40k miles on it.

The ride isn't anywhere near what it used to be for obvious reasons. And my trusted mechanic did mention at my last oil change that there is a very small oil leak but said to just keep track of the oil level.

Other than that, everything is working in order and the condition inside is pretty good for a 13 year old car.

A number of you recommend eventually replacing the tranny with an AV6 tranny. That certainly sounds appealing from an economic perspective but I bought this car for the sportiness of it, which I feel will just deteriorate as the miles roll by.

Also, we now have a baby and I don't want to be stranded without a car or even worse, have the tranny slip while I'm at a busy intersection or on a highway.

I guess I'm trying to justify getting a new (i.e. Used) car...

3.2TLc

Depending greatly upon your financial conditions, a new car will definitely provide more peace of mind at an added expense for your family.

If you have the need for a second car, keep the TL for yourself going to work and buy a newer used "family" vehicle. To save money, consider a higher deductible on the newer family car's insurance, then just carry liability on your old TL for work. You'll never find a better deal for a extra work car, IMO.

erdoc48

This is an interesting thread.
What I'd recommend is that if you can do the tranny swap (with a warranty for some period of time- 24-36 months) and if new fluid and switches doesn't help, you may be good for the next few years. It is an older car with a lot of mileage but delaying making payments may work in your favor. The above also depends on how expensive the repair is.

It all depends on:
-How much you still enjoy driving the car
-Other repairs needed
-How safe / reliable it is (meaning if you swap the tranny, you're convinced the car won't leave you stranded)

In general, you're usually better getting a car fixed and driving it than replacing with new, but you did really well with the 241K you got on it now. If finances are tight, you may want to go the repair route, and if not, may opt for a newer, used car. A new car, albeit the 'nicest' option since you're putting the first few miles on the car, isn't the most financially savvy since you'll be in more expensive car payments for the next 4-5 years on top of a decent down payment.

3.2TLc

^^^ Yeah, perhaps a good low mileage 5 year old vehicle would serve your family's purposes. But, if it's not brand spanking new.....ya never know when something may go wrong. That's why I mentioned hanging onto the old faithful TL as a back-up 2nd car.

The bottom line is your family's financial ability to either buy the new or used car, if ya really don't feel comfortable to risk the old TL's reliability down the road. Ya know the car's past history and current issues better than anybody else. Is it worth the risk and up to $2000 to keep it running vs. a new car payment obligation. Only you know what's right !!!

Type_S_Maniac

I've got the itch to get a used Hyundai Genesis. Although not a Honda, I've heard good things about their reliability and the value seems unbeatable. I'm seeing 2012 models going for the low to mid 20s.

In the meantime though, I'm going to keep driving the TL-S until the specific one I'm looking for comes along. I feel more comfortable with this route since I'm not dumping the TL-S right now and I can take my time to search for the next car.

Keeping the TL as a backup car would be great but I live in a town home community and we only have 1 garage. Also, I just don't really want to deal with the maintenance and upkeep of 3 cars for only 2 drivers. But who knows I may change my mind.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Type_S_Maniac

Just out of curiosity, is the $1500-2000 price for the AV6 tranny swap quoted if I do the work myself (i.e. buying the actual tranny)? Or, is that the total price including labor that mechanics are typically charging for this swap?

I can certainly change my own brakes, rotor, motor mounts, etc. but I don't have the time or the patience to do the tranny swap myself.

01tl4tl

that's total- usually about half and half on the price of good used accord/oddy trans unit and labor to install, some have scored a trans in the $400-500 range! and about same on labor, depends on local labor rates-
some auto recycler/formerly junkyards- places will install for you or a real trans shop- no big deal for them

what used car as nice as the TL can you buy for 2 grand? even 10 grand
install new struts- you can diy those with a little help from shop to do the spring swap over- let them risk death!! you have a baby to think of,,

why does daddy have a big spring in his chest???? is he Inspector Gadget??? or a teeter totter?

restore the car to nice soft ride for your new needs with new shocks/struts
if you can do brakes you can do this- brakes come off for this job!!

01tl4tl

oil leaks only come from a few places- did the mechanic narrow it down any--like oil pump seal or rear engine main oil seal (that's a bummer requires removal of trans!)

normal area to find leaks is valve cover gaskets and its bolts gaskets
can fix those while doing valve adjustment

01tl4tl

if its getting slower with age- might help to run some seafoam thru the gas, 1 can at just under half tank- do that twice its awesome!
a cleaning of throttle body and some new ngk spark plugs- the 8 dollar each ones
make her run like new

may need to clean intake manifold egr system too- needed every 75kmiles

Type_S_Maniac

Good to know on the installed price of the AV6 swap. That definitely makes it more enticing instead of replacing the car altogether.

As far as the oil leak, I think he mentioned it but I forgot. I'll follow up with them the next time I go in for an oil change to see if they can pinpoint the oil leak.

I've got a can of Seafoam already in the garage. Just waiting for a nice day and some free time where I can do this. The intake manifold was cleaned about 2 years ago (at ~200k miles).

Thanks for the help

01tl4tl

put that can of seafoam in just under half tank = 8 gallons of gas in tank

you can also do the vac port/TB throat method for instant results with spray version =deep creep
but that misses some key fuel components that gas tank method with liquid seafoam does get

Seafoam likes time and heat, so driving is the most efficient method (over 30 minutes best)
You can do the master vac port method, along with fuel tank- wont hurt anything (when done correctly- done wrong can eff things up bad!)
Don't need more than ~1/2 can vac method- when done with the fuel tank

best way to find oil leak is clean the engine then watch for new dirty spots!

SuperGreg

I see people mention slipping in 3rd gear, but what about a harsh shift? Sometimes going into 3rd my tranny seems to engage fully with a jerk instead of smoothly. It only does this under very soft acceleration, during hard acceleration it seems normal.

3.2TLc

Mounts, fluid....solenoids ???

01tl4tl

greg
try some new fluid - Honda dw-1 if its been a while, that usually fixes the shudder shift into 2nd-3rd, which can also be helped by cleaning the 2 pressure switches external to the trans
slightly more throttle seems to help too!
As a test use SS mode with the same low rpm/throttle shift point- SS has a higher line pressure and will help determine if that's at issue

01tl4tl

when it slips in 3rd- ie: getting on the freeway at full throttle to beat a semi. and car acts like a manual trans with bad clutch plate- we have the same type wear as that plate = the friction material disappears so when you need it- there isn't enough for a good grip
vroom vroooom goes the engine and rev meter, with no massive acceleration like normal
now THATS a serious time to rebuild trans issue

fog80

ive got 205k on my 02 tls and im kind of in the same boat. I went ahead and did my second timing belt because my engine and tranny are still running well.

The suspension on the other hand is shot, every bump on the road sounds like a gun shot. I just ordered new struts, mounts, end links and sway bar bushings from rock auto. Going to find a shop to put them all in for me. I'm hoping it brings the ride back to the way it used to be.

Type_S_Maniac

I replaced my sway bar bushings already. But its still on the original suspension like yours.

My suspension doesn't feel any different but I think that's just because I've gotten used to it over the years. It's hard to tell since its so gradual but I can certainly tell the car sways more (if that's the right terminology for it).

How much did all those suspension components come out to? I'd be curious to know how much the shop charges you.

fog80

I paid $300 for the parts. Just waiting on my mechanic to see how much the labor is going to be.

My car definitely feels like its rolling more on the turns. I used to be able to take turns at higher speeds than I do now. The biggest problem I have is hearing clunks when traveling at low speeds.

aTLanta1

Do you know if you can maintain the manual shift mode with the AV6 transmission?

For the rolling and clunking, you might just need a new set of struts/shocks, I found a new set of KYBs for pretty cheap on eBay.

3.2TLc

Hey Fog80, make sure that the control arms and ball joints are still good.