02 TL-S 6 Speed Swap
 

I did it you guys!
I'm going to apologize ahead of time because I kinda hacked it together.
I used the 03 CL-S engine, transmission, ECU and engine wire harness. The rest of the wires I just kind of cut up and connected them to where I thought they should go by comparing the FSMs.
Most of it went surprisingly smoothly with the exception of several things.
1.) I had to run 2 separate wires(+5V sensor power, and sensor ground) from the manual ECU to the FTP(Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor).
2.) I ran a wire from the Ignition Switch directly to the starter solenoid.
3.) I ran a wire from the Reverse Light Switch(on the transmission) to the Driver's Under Dash Fusebox.
The car passed emissions and is currently my daily driver with no codes.
I do have several problems that I would appreciate input on.
1.) The IMRC does not work even when a known good actuator was swapped over.
2.) Memory seats do not work ( My guess is the car needs to "think" that it's in Park for that function to work but I haven't figured out how to do that).
3.) I did absolutely nothing about reverse lockout, so I can just move the stick into reverse while driving forward.
3.a) The above is a problem because there is a lot of side to side play in the shifter. I 3D printed a bushing to fix the looseness of the forward and backward play but I wanna know if buying a Revotechnica short shifter kit would eliminate the problem or what other options I have.
4.) The auto cruise control box isn't even there.
So it runs and drives but needs a bunch of stuff and things.
Let me know what you guys think!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...514bf25261.jpg
Daily driver is an upgrade from a 94 Nissan Altima XE(5 Speed Manual).

I guess manual swaps aren't cool anymore...

Glad you got it running!

You kind of brute forced the wiring, which I'm not a fan of. In my swap, I replicated the wiring to match the OEM setup as much as possible. This was largely done through the "gear range selector" if I'm remembering correctly. I wired the reverse signal straight to the reverse input on that connector, the park signal for the starter was wired to the clutch, and I think the neutral/park was wired to the handbrake. The fuel tank sensor didn't require running separate wire, as the connectors just used different pins. I just had to repin it, and match them up so they worked like OEM. Either way, it sounds like you got most of the stuff to work. Obviously cruise isn't going to work if you don't even have a cruise control box. For your other questions:

1) I just deleted the IMRC. They don't work well with boost, so I opted to delete it.

2) The only thing that doesn't work in my swap is the driver's memory recall. The power seats work, and I can store the input into M1 or M2. But the car won't recall the seat position. I think this is because the ECU normally tells the memory seat controller when the car is stopped, so you can't recall the seat position while driving at speed.

3) The reverse lockout solenoid has a two pin connector. I wired one pin directly to fused power. The other side was hooked up to a switchable ground. You can use any controllable ground you want, but I believe E15 normally drives that on the OEM setup. This ground will switch on when the car has the brake pedal depressed, so you can't go into reverse without pressing the brakes.

4) Idk, find your cruise control box. Mine works fine with nothing swapped.

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...56ce12386a.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...2ef1fb91f1.jpg
All worn valve seats and this is why I had low compression and misfires. Just putting it out there.

Typically there really is no such a thing as worn valve seats, however, that valve is toast.

Would the valves being bent cause them to not seat fully then? In your opinion, does this damage seem like over revving, incorrect timing during a timing belt replacement causing the piston to come in contact with the valve or something else?

My first thought was a "money shift" (i.e. overrev). What is the engine's history for say, the immediate three months prior to the discovery of low compression?

Came out of a wrecked car, sat in the garage for 5 years, got put into the swap and driven maybe 2000miles. From the beginning it sometimes threw misfire codes but seemed to run fine. Towards the end you could definitely tell there was a misfire, the code wouldn't t go away, and you get hear some valve noise. I have some high mileage heads of an auto TLS that I'm probably gonna put on (after swapping the necessary components over), but I'm curious as to what I have to do to rebuild these heads properly. Is it just replace the valves and maybe springs or have them machined and whatnot?

Yeah, best bet to send them out and have them professionally rebuilt; as a general rule all of the machining and reassembly for heads is relatively inexpensive.

As for actual parts. assuming the cams and lifters are in good shape, I would have all of the valves, seals, retainers, and springs replaced, the guides and seats need to be inspected and touched up/replaced as necessary, and then have the head faced.

Would it be cheaper to install a J35A3 from an 01-02 MDX?:shrug:

Would that properly mate up with the CL engine he's running though?

:rofl:
Let me clarify. When I made that post, I meant that it may be cheaper to install and upgrade to a J35A3 engine instead of rebuilding the J32A2 heads.

This was based on a quick search on car-part.com where I found a couple of salvage J35A3 engines, in his state, for $159.30 at McDonough Used Auto Parts in (Forsyth) & (Covington) Georgia.

To answer your question, though, the J35A3 heads would fit his J32A2; however, the J32A2 heads are better when it comes to performance. That's why when a J35A3 engine is swapped into a 2G CLS/TLS, you want to take the J32A2 heads or, at a minimum, transfer the J32A2 cams to the J35A3 heads to make a J35A3 Type-S.:)

Oh boy, look at me go with my late-night posts. "Would a J35 mate up to his J32?" :tomato:

You're right, swapping a J35A3 in might be cheaper. Please disregard my nonsense :rofl:

j67?

Ftp
 

How exactly did you wire your FTP? I’m getting a P0452. Where did you wire your ground to? Any pictures?

The 2003 Acura CL Type S manual ECU had 3 pins for the FTP.
+5V, Ground, and reading.I just ran wires straight from the ECU to the sensor.
Connector E manual ECU:
Pin6 (YEL/BLU)-Power source to FTP
Pin7(BLK/RED)-Ground to FTP
Pin28(LT GRN)-FTP Signal
I found this by comparing the FSM for the 2 cars.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...26c8185a6d.jpg
Here's a handy table I made matching up the wires from an auto body to manual ecu.

Quick update to anyone interested.
1.) Swapped heads from a 220k mile 2002 Acura TL Type S and she's running smooth.
2.) IMRC now works. I just had to run a signal wire directly from ECU to the control module(overlooked this earlier)
3.) Reverse lockout now works. Had to attach a switched +12V to the solenoid and run a wire to ECU for switched ground.

Im actually working on this swap also, ive had my old accord swapped for 8yrs j32a2 6MT and j35a3 6MT. Hows your swap holding up

It was my daily driver until mid February but I think it had a failing clutch master cylinder where it wouldn't let all the fluid back intp the reservoir after letting go of the pedal. I ordered new master and slave and got sent to work in Utah. Because of the pandemic I'm stuck here for an unknown amount of time while my Acura sits and waits for me. My current daily is a 1988 Ford Festiva 🤣

had a friend growing up with a Festiva. the door handles broke so he always had to climb through the hatch to get into the car. but I digress...:)

damn that sucks. Well keep us posted. I need to finish mine.

i've been begging crustyneon to let me take care of his acura while he's away but he won't let me :(

boiiii. slap that master and slave in there and put insurance on it!

I still have documentation I made from the swap and some things fresh on my mind. Lemme know if you have any questions

Bro if you're serious I just might

yeah my build is about 70% done. My old accord i had 6speed swapped for years, decided the tl was bigger and better for me.

6 speed swap
 

Hey crustyneon can you post the document for the wiring you have, I’m doing the swap in a 02 TL thanks

Just installed the manual transmission, for those doing the swap on 2002 TL I think it’s easier to drop the complete subframe, I have a transmission jack and the transmission differential hits the subframe. I thought it would go in easy since I took out the auto transmission in a hour, took 6 hours for the manual transmission fighting with the subframe, removed subframe went right in ☺️

@Blu240z , I have access to alldata and made a wiring cross reference for running 6spd trans on AEM EMS using an AT harness.

PM me with what specifically are you seeking and I can help you out.

Thanks 619rcr, for those that are doing the manual swap into 2002 TL, the driver side axle will work from the manual or auto tranny, the passenger side axle from the manual transmission won’t work too long, but the auto transmission axle will work on the passenger side into the manual transmission

i don't think crusty has ABS working, fwiw. since he didn't do anything about the existing VSA configuration, and the ABS/VSA modulator unit is activated through the ECU on the A/T, i think that's why he's not seeing any codes about that.

• the OBD2 connector has one wire going directly to the braking control module (whether that's VSA/TCS or ABS). if the ECU doesn't care about VSA because it has no pin for it, i don't think he'll see any code.
  • please correct me if i'm wrong.

cars that shipped with the J32A1 will have the FTP reference voltage pin going to the ECU, but sadly J32A2 cars will not (see page 11-39 on the TL service manual).

• there is an easy-ish way to address this though. or so i think. i will find out soon enough xD

if you use the engine harness from the 6MT, then you won't have the transmission range selector plug on the engine harness, since that plug connects directly to the transmission.

• are you sure there isn't another plug you're referencing? possibly the "A/T shift switch" (196 in the CL electrical troubleshooting manual)?

from our discussions in private, the easiest thing to do seems to be wiring the interlock switch into the C301, pin 16 (wht/red). this should, theoretically, allow the car to both start and behave just as it should (see pages 4-4 in both the TL and CL service manual).

• this way, even if you stall (i.e. no parking brake), pressing on the clutch fully will send the same signal that allows you to start. i cannot see any disadvantages to doing this. please correct me if i'm wrong.

i am unclear on why any modifications would be required for the reverse lockout solenoid, since the 6MT ecu knows your speed?

• page 13-5 of the CL FSM suggests that when you go over 20 km/h, there is a mechanism that will physically lock you out from selecting reverse.
• so if you're going under 20km/h, you should be able to select it. as detrimental as that may be.
  • why wouldn't this mechanism trigger, even if we are using an A/T dash harness? no signal needs to be sent back, as it does for the A/T shift lever. the lock is triggered on the transmission itself.
    • am i misunderstanding something here? any clarifications would be appreciated.

i also did not think about the IMRC bit. i should look at that.

regarding the IMRC, what crusty said sounds to be the easiest thing to do: tap pin 15 on ECU connector B (LT BLU) of the ECU to pin 6 (LT BLU) of the IMRC control module. i don't like this, but it seems to be the easiest way.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...8dd941ebe0.pnghttps://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/acurazi...22d67cb679.png
5at 6MT

seems that the circuit is different all the way through. was hoping for something cleaner (no offense).

regarding the reverse lockout solenoid. i still don't understand if i'm just being stupid because i was under the impression the manual shifter has no computerisation, and so there is no wire we can run to "stop it".

and from what i can read in the manual, the reverse lockout from the 6MT is actually wired right into the reverse circuit for the automatic, which is great.

i am very excited and curious to see if wiring the clutch interlock switch into RED/WHT of C301 fixes everything in terms of the lockout system.

no one here has even talked about the importance of the interlock switch, which is kind of surprising. however when it is pushed down, it should send the 'park/neutral' signal that allows the car to start.

i wonder when it is depressed if it would have the side-effect of having the shift lock work.
again any corrections are welcome.

Thanks broly haven’t been on here in a while, got the car working still need to address the things you stated in your post gonna check it out this weekend. Tach isn’t working and yes I used the 6mt engine harness only do you know what pin I need to connect to make the tach work, thanks

02 TL-S 6 Speed Swap
 

Thanks broly haven’t been on here in a while, got the car working still need to address the things you stated in your post gonna check it out this weekend. Tach isn’t working and yes I used the 6mt engine harness only do you know what pin I need to connect to make the tach work, thanks

tach should work without any changes if i understand it correctly.

no one has reported issues with the tachometer in their swap.

what car are you doing the swap on? oh i see, a TL-P. tachometer should work.

i would try my recommendation of wiring the blu/wht wire from the INTERLOCK switch into C301.

C301 isdescribed as:
gray
behind driver's dashboard lower cover, left of steering column
connects left-side engine compartment wire harness to dashboard wire harness A.

it is 16 pins for the 02-03 models, and you should find the WHT/RED wire in the corner. that is the wire i recommend you spliced the BLU/WHT clutch interlock switch into.

once you try that, report back. i am hoping not only will it start, but it will engage the lockout solenoid when you're over 20km/h.

ok will try this weekend and report what I find thanks, vehicle is a 2002 tl base

in terms of the reverse lockout solenoid, i found a good solution, or so i think.

the reverse lockout solenoid on the transmission has a white wire coming from it, and we should be able to tap this wire into the white wire on junction connector C101.

• on the left-engine harness side, C101's white wire corresponds to the A/T reverse circuit. this circuit is useless to us, so it's "available for use".
• on the M/T engine harness, the white wire is the reverse lockout solenoid, which is exactly what we want to talk to.

so, by tapping the white wire in the reverse solenoid to the C101 junction connector, we should have the full lockout solenoid working. it will feed the signal from the M/T harness right to the solenoid.

this is one problem fixed, or so i think.

corrections/participation is very welcome.

next is if there is a clean solution for the backup light.
Reply

also: according to the electrical troubleshooting manual, it seems this very same white wire is used for the reverse backup light in the automatic.

• i'm wondering if we tap the yellow wire from the M/T transmission's back up light switch into this white wire, if we will have the "alternating ground" the guys were talking about.

either way, from what this diagram shows, the yellow wire on the transmission's back up light switch must tap into the white wire to have the same functionality. it is identical if we do that.

so try tapping both the reverse lockout solenoid (WHT) and back up light switch (YEL) into the 9th pin (WHT) on C101 (junction connector that joins the left engine harness [our A/T dash harness] and the engine harness [M/T dash harness]).

it wouldn't surprise me if, by tapping both of these wires into the white wire, we get both the alternating ground and the reverse back-up light.

see what happens! lol. play with it and report back!!

it just hit me!! (or so i think).

you want to:

1. UNPIN the WHT wire from C101 on the ENGINE HARNESS (M/T) and then send that directly to the WHT wire on the reverse solenoid switch.
   • this will give the ECU direct access to the reverse lockout (again, or so i think) through the WHT wire.
2. UNPIN the WHT wire from C101 on the LEFT ENGINE HARNESS (A/T) and then send that directly to the YEL wire on the REVERSE BACK UP LIGHT SWITCH.
   • this will ensure you get the signal to the rear lights for reverse.

just wondering if the ECM will trigger the reverse lockout if it's wired right into the switch. it should, but i'm not sure.

i think, for sure, #2 is right. the diagrams for M/T and A/T are nearly identical, except for the origin of the signal (which is the WHT wire on A/T, through C101 pin 9).

let me know what your results turn up.