GoHawks

from 19 years of Acuras to a 2012 CTS Coupe Premium collection.

I've racked up over 1,000 miles so far and thought I would provide a follow-up after living with the car a bit.

Contrary to some who have left the brand and bashed it, I did not leave on bad terms. I loved each and every Acura I've owned with my 2006 to-date having been the best car I've ever owned, with the only issue having been the chronic door handle problems which had finally seemed resolved. I was just at a point where between a timing belt, new brakes and a few other things I felt I was at a tipping point. Sink the cash and drive it into the ground, or get out while I could get something decent on a trade.

I chose the latter.

As I said in one of my previous threads, long term reliability will have to prove itself over time. In the two weeks since I've had this car there have been no issues, but two weeks of trouble-free driving is hardly something to brag about.

I just wanted to give an update on what my thoughts were after this brief time.

Technology - The CTS Premium model has just about everything the RL has worth noting. The only glaring exception is the tilting side view mirrors. The coupe does not have the feature nor is it offered. Given the limited rear visibility of the coupe that omission is a head scratcher. The navigation was something I was worried about, and Neuronbob (moderator here) had stated that the voice recognition between the two didn't compare as Acura is king in that department. I would tend to agree, but I don't think the differences are that far apart. It's just a matter of understanding the nuances of the two. For example, as I mentioned in an earlier thread, the RL has two VR buttons, one for the phone, the the other for the rest of the commands. The Caddy uses just one.

So if you want to enter a destination, You start out the conversation by pressing the button and saying "Enter Street", the system then converses with you in similar fashion as the RL asking you by city, by street, by state, etc.

If you want to use the phone, you say, "Handfree". The system then says, "OK, ready?". It then beeps and you give it your command, (i.e. call home). The system then responds by saying, "OK, calling home using John's Blackberry (whatever you named the paired device). Commands like MUTE and TRANSFER, are similar to the RL.

I LOVE, LOVE that I can start my car from an iPad/iPhone app. My parking spot is on the opposite end of my office, well outside of the range of the fob. With the app I can send a command to start the car, once the vehicle has started I'll get confirmation. Depending on the outside temperature it will either heat/cool the interior along with turning on the seat heaters or the seat ventilation.

Another cool feature is when you run low on gas, in addition to giving you the standard warning light, a message will pop up on the navigation screen asking if you want to find the nearest gas station.

While the navigation and infotainment commands are similar to the RL, the rest of the commands seem to be limited in the CTS. For example I don't think you have the same level of voice commands as you have in the RL that lets you adjust individual temps (through VR) or turn on the defrosters, etc., but then again I didn't use those commands that much. While cool, it was a bit overkill when I could just reach over and adjust the temp or turn on the defroster. The CTS doesn't have the sophisticated noise cancellation that the RL had, but that doesn't seem to have compromised the quietness (is that a word) of the CTS. The car is much quieter than the RL. Almost too quiet as I wish it would let in a bit more engine growl, although it does come through a bit when you get on the car.

Ride in the CTS is much firmer. The car body just feels more rigid, but that might be a specific to the coupe as I read that they did quite a bit to strengthen the structural stiffness of the coupe. The Coupes come with the GM FE2 suspension. It's in between the base suspension and the track tuned FE3. Reviews I've read have said that the FE3 is punishing on midwest roads. The FE2 that's in my car seems like a nice compromise. It does feel much more nimble than the RL. I don't think I would have ever said that a Caddy handles better than an Acura/Honda, but in this case I would have to. It's funny, driving it casually aside from the firm ride, the car does a nice job of giving a nice, smooth ride. My wife commented on it too. Very silky and it's deceiving because once you get on the car, the athleticism comes through. The 6th gear (which the RL desperately needed) makes a difference here keeping the engine relatively calm until you decide you want to heat things up.

There are other minor features that the CTS has that the RL didn't and vice versa. For example the RL allows you to customize almost endlessly through the MID countless features to the fob. The CTS is a
one-size-fits-all with only the seats, mirrors and steering wheel linked to the fob. The CTS on the other hand has a heated steering wheel (Premium Collection option), 40 gb hard drive, and NavWeather. There's more and I won't go into all of them here as it would take pages

Steering - The RL felt firmer regardless of speed. The CTS feels a bit overboosted and lowspeeds, but it does noticeably firm up as the speed increases.

Stereos - Soundwise I would say they might be a draw, but from a hardware perspective the CTS may come out ahead as it has a 10 speaker Bose 5.1 surround system.

Performance - The CTS has a slight edge here as it has 318hp/275 ft lb versus 290hp/256ft lb. Again, the advantage is very slight here. I think I've read road tests where the CTS does 0-60mph at around 6.1 seconds. A few ticks faster than the RL. Again though very comparable.

Interior and overall fit and finish - I must say that I am thoroughly impressed here. The CTS is comparable to the RL. I almost want to say the CTS feels richer, but that might just be because the car is newer. GM has come a LONG way from their "Interiors by Playskool" days. No squeaks, rattles or issues so far, but as I said before. It's early. The front seats are a little flatter and firmer than the RL (meaning I think the RL seats are a little more comfortable).

Rear seat room is a compromise, but I knew that. It's a coupe.

Looks - Hands down the CTS is a stunner. The RL, while handsome in it's own way, was relatively anonymous. THe CTS gets looks everywhere I go. Of course the Black diamond metallic paint on black interior makes it stand out even more.

In summary, as sad as it makes me to say this I am not missing the RL at all. I almost feel guilty saying that.

Now, with that said keep in mind that it is a testament to the RL that it was still technically relevant when compared to the CTS. That's impressive when you consider that the RL's platform was introduced in the fall of 2004 as a 2005 model. The current gen CTS came out in 2008, and the coupe was introduced last year.

As I said in the beginning though, when the honeymoon wears off, the true test will be how the relliability holds up as the car ages, but for now I'm loving this car.

I do hope that Acura does make a splash in the coming years and finds it's way. I read a recent review of the TL where it was said that Acura admitted that the Power Plenum of the current cars was an attempt to try and make a styling statement like Cadillac did with the CTS line. If true, it's obvious they alienated a lot of buyers.

Who knows, I might be back some day, but for now I'm enjoying the ride.

THis will be the last of any comparisons I make, but I'll still lurk around here. After 19 years I can't walk away that easily.

oo7spy

Thank for the honest comparo. I think the most pertinent park of your whole post is comparing a 2006 to a 2012. With that in mind, there are some things to be considered with an equal comparison.

The 2012 RL has 6-speeds, 300 hp, and can run 0-60 in less than 6 seconds. It also has the Helmholtz resonators in the wheel to decrease voice coupled with a revamped ANC system. The first system isn't as good. Your '06 and of course the '12 both have 10 speakers and are Dolby 5.1 certified and branded as Bose. The suspension was also tightened in the MMC when the Aspec option was dropped. It is not as stiff as Aspec, or the CTS most likely, but it is a middle ground from the '06.

I say all of this not to antagonize your opinions, but to keep a level field. I am glad you enjoy the car as that is what is most important for you, what you like.

GoHawks

Definitely didn't take it as antagonizing. In my evaluation of the CTS I'm trying to be as fair as possible as I loved my RL. As I said in the beginning, I didn't leave on bad terms. I actually felt guilty when I left the dealership the night I bought the CTS. Kind of like I was tossing it aside. I know it's an inanimate object, but that's how much I enjoyed that car.

The RL set a high bar. History and my gut would tell you that the CTS won't live up to the same standard (around reliability), but there just wasn't anything in the Acura line-up that moved me. Despite the improvements in the current RL content-wise, the car just hadn't changed much. Also, while I don't want to offend any MMC owners here, I just couldn't spend 50 large and have that nose and an interior that made me feel like I was still in my six year old car.

as a PS, the other cool feature in the CTS is the rain sensing wipers. They work pretty well.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

You sir are living what I think my future car choice will be

Thanks for posting up.

steve807

The fantastic car building robots have sure improved car consistency, quality, and value for the dollar, across most all brands and models.

I used to be a major fan of GM, having bought about a dozen of them new. Most of mine were in the bad old '70's and '80's, first one was bought new in '66.

I loved them but they were not good by any measure of quality or value.

I bought my kid a used 2005 Chevy Malibu five years ago and he has yet to kill it after putting another 100K mi on it. Only minor problems, but some are persistent like the headlight wiring melt-downs.

oo7spy

True that. I hurt a little inside when I watched Legend #1 go even though Legend #2 was already in the garage.

I wasn't by any means suggesting you should have bought another RL. I can fully sympathize with people's problem with buying a $50k car that is running on 8 year old technology. I was simply pointing out improvements that an outsider may not realize that makes the playing field level with your comparison. If you enjoy walking up to your car, getting in it, driving it, and parking it in your driveway/garage, then that's all that matters. Everyone deserves to have something they enjoy if they are going to be paying for it.

db22

I have frequently looked at the MMC RL and reached the same conclusion as others: it is a newer version of what I have and not enough updates to warrant another car payment. I would have been closer to pulling the trigger if the MMC updated the Nav and audio system to the one found in the MMC MDX and also replaced the shocks with the 2 stage magneto shocks. The car would then be technologically on a par with the competion and the remaining question mark would be the beak but I will add that the rear of the MMC is an improvement.
As mentioned, Acura already have those additions available so it could have been done relatively easily but the Bose system is so integral that the project was probably deemed too expensive.

GoHawks

I do agree that the rear of the MMC was an improvement.

oo7spy

I would like to add a correction that the RL is DTS 5.1 Surround certified, not Dolby.

neuronbob

Rain sensing wipers=AWESOME. I love mine and I didn't understand why Cadillac took them away for 2010 and 2011. At least GM actually LISTENS to its buying public, unlike Acura...and they put them back for 2012.

Loss of tilt mirrors=fail. This was removed as a feature in 2009 because Cadillac's focus groups found them confusing. WTF? We on the Cadi site have been agitating to get this function back. There is an underground hack that returns the function, but it is not widely available.

GoHawks

Do tell of the hack Bob!

As for the Rainsensing wipers, they are awesome. I thought it was a gimmick, but I really like them.

SnoWRL

iTrader: (1)

Congrats and nice honesty. The RL was a very techno advanced/option loaded car for the years it came out. I left to Audi knowing reliability may not be as strong but Acura def lost its way. And while sometimes in thought I miss the RL when I am driving my car I realize it was worth it.

db22

Rain sensing wipers are good if it is a selectable item. When it's raining on a dark freeway then I usually do not use wipers at all as the water sheets nicely with RainX therefore I would want the option of being able to turn the rain sensing feature off. My Cadillac had a great feature where if you had the wipers on for more than 20 seconds then it would turn the headlights on on the basis that reduced visability was assumed. This was great in California where it is the law to have your lights on in the rain and most drivers are too dumb to turn their lights on manually.
The older Tahoe had the feature of the dipping mirrors in reverse and it was selectable. I do not like the RL system where I have to select the mirror side so that the feature works. I would prefer that the mirror dipping was software enabled and that the mirror control was always enabled. Why would you ever turn the control for the mirrors off? It's like the cruise control Main switch, I have never turned it off in the last 7 years but I use cruise control every time I drive. I never need a switch to enable a switch.

neuronbob

The hack was done by one guy in the CTS-V forum but he's the only one who's done it, and he's not telling how he did it. I'll scare up the thread when I have more time.

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

I hear the mod is simple, they make little umbrellas for the sensor.

GoHawks

The rain sensing wipers in the Cadillac can be turned off and the sensitivity can be adjusted as well. It will also turn the lights on for you after the wipers have been on for a while. I can't recall if it's 10 or 20 seconds.

A couple more interesting finds. With the stability control (Stabilitrak), in addition to on/off, there is also a performance mode. It basically allows for wheel spin, but will still intervene if you go into a skid.

With the navigation, it will give you a verbal warning of traffic incidents up ahead. Last night on the way home, the highway that I was on had construction up ahead. I didn't have a destination programmed in, just the map active. As I was nearing the construction area a voice chimed in warning me about upcoming construction on the road. I thought that was pretty cool.

Also if you leave your turn signal on, after a while a warning will display on your dash display that you have your turn signals on. Now I hope I never become that oblivious that I don't notice the blinker going on incessantly, but it's there if I ever have a senior moment. I don't think this is a new feature as I think Caddys have had this for a while.

neuronbob

In the V, I can completely turn off the traction nannies.

I found out the blinker warning once the hard way one afternoon as I was driving home post-call and half-asleep. A message appears in the MID that says "Turn off your turn signal" and it emits a "beep". Not kidding.

GoHawks

I can turn them off completely too. I was just pointing out the "Performance mode" as well.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

There aren't many, if any, other cars on the road that'll make you do a double take like the CTS Coupe. Congrats and thanks for the honest comparison.

db22

The blinker warning is a good feature but here in California it is superfluous due the blinker being unavailable to the left hand because it is holding the phone.

phishfood

California should pass a law then requiring blinker controls on cell phones which can be activated via bluetooth link.

See, nothing you can't fix with a little government regulation.

getakey

Get more attention in Calif if the warning came up in twitter

Rocketsfan

As a current '04 Acura TL owner who'll be buying a car before 2014 (heck, maybe even before 2013), I appreciate reviews like this since a CTS or ATS is on my list of cars to potentially look at. Thanks.

GoHawks

Glad to help. The ATS looks to be a sharp car, and it will include the Cadillac CUE infotainment system. It will include a full that has haptic feedback (like the iPhone), Pandora, and also a customizable instrument cluster.

Check out this video.


There are other pros and cons between the two. The RL had more ambient lighting while the CTS has a cool LED strip hidden along a line in the dash. The 3.6L engine in the CTS will run on regular. The RL has many more customizations. The CTS has weather and a 40 gb HDD, although to be fair I'm sure the new RL will have this.

The CTS does attract more attention. That's good or bad depending on you.

The CTS' AWD isn't torque vectoring like the RLs.

OnStar lets you upload directions from your computer (using Google or Mapquest) to your navigation system.

GoHawks

Came back around to check things out and thought I would resurrect this thread and give an update. As I have said before, I had, and still do to some extent, have reservations on whether or not the domestics (namely GM/Cadillac in my case) have gotten their act together with respect to long term reliability.

Bought my CTS Coupe new in March of 2012 and she has about 10,400 miles on her now.

I had one minor issue at 4k miles where the seat belt light would occasionally flash even though I was belted. The culprit as you might expect was the seat belt buckle and it should have been an easy repair, but the incompetence of a certain service manager made the ordeal bigger than it should have been.

Since then the car has been pretty much rock solid. I LOVE this car and while I wasn't looking for the attention, I can't tell you how much of it I get. People on the highway pull up along side and flash the thumbs up sign, several times people in parking lots and gas stations will come up to me and ask about the car, and just a few days ago after one of my son's hockey games we were pulling into a parking lot to get something to eat and as I pull in, a car load full of teenagers who were leaving all stopped and stared. When I got out the driver said, and I quote, "That is one sexy car".

I still think Acura is the best with how they integrate their navigation systems. We also recently traded in our 2004 Land Cruiser for a CPO BMW X5 which has the improved iDrive. It's funny but I think Acura (in the RL) took the concept of iDrive and made it better with the redundant buttons so you don't have to hunt through sub menus. Well that's what BMW has done now. I think they copied Acuras approach. Having said that, Acura still does the best job with their navigation implementations.

The navigation system in the CTS is actually not bad, but like others, it only allows voice commands while in motion. I do like the floating screen that rises from and falls into the dash that fosters lots of oohs and ahhs from passengers, but I have my concerns on how long the motors will last. The system is Microsoft based so as with any MS based computer, it will occasionally freeze or reboot. It has only happened a couple of times in nine months, where as I can only recall my RL rebooting once or twice in 6 years.

The audio systems are comparable with maybe a slight edge to the RL. I love the internal hard drive as I have loaded my entire iTunes library on it. The HDD also allows the ability to timeshift, which I think contemporary Acuras do as well.

iPod integration is very good. Once connected you can control everything from the audio system. All your playlists come through too. You can just leave your device in the storage area under the armrest.

The RL had a more comprehensive list of voice commands that went beyond just audio and Bluetooth (for example: "Defrosters on"). In the CTS the VR is mainly focused on audio, Bluetooth and navigation.

I do have a year of complimentary OnStar like I did in my RL when I bought it. While I let it expire on my RL, I may keep it for my CTS. The CTS comes with a remote start, but as with most remote starters you have to be within a certain distance for it to work. With my CTS I have downloaded the OnStar app onto my iPhone. With it aside from checking diagnostics, I can remote start, lock, unlock, sound the alarm, flash lights, no matter how far I am from the car. It has come in quite handy during the summer and will this winter. Once the car is started, in addition to heating/cooling the interior, it will either heat/cool the seats and turn on the Defrosters depending on the outside temperature. So, at work my parking spot is on the opposite end of the building, up a few floors. Well out of range of the fob transmitter. When I get ready to pack up for the day, I send the remote signal just as I'm turning off the lights and as I walk down to my car, it is nice and toasty warm or cooled down.

Like I said, I may renew OnStar just for this feature.

I like that in addition to Navtraffic, I also get weather alerts (I.e. tornado watch alerts flash on the screen) and traffic rerouting, although I think newer Acuras offer these functions too. It does have a cool feature that even if you don't have a destination set, if there is an incident up ahead on the road you're traveling, a voice will come through and warn you. For example she will say, "Attention, in two miles, construction". Caught me off guard the first time it happened.

The AWD system in the CTS is no where as sophisticated as SH-AWD. The transmission on the other hand is bit more performance oriented than what was in the RL.

In addition to being able to shift yourself (which I rarely do or did in my RL), you can leave it in sport mode and let it shift itself. On the surface that may not seem like a big deal as most car makers offer this feature and typically all you get is longer shift points. The tranny on the CTS is a bit more intelligent. If you are about to hit an corner or highway ramp hard, you will typically brake hard and then accelerate hard out of it. In the case of the CTS it will sense that, downshift, blip the throttle and hold the gear so you get maximum torque coming out of the turn. It is pretty Copland brings a smile to your face.

I don't have the paddle shifters like I did in the RL, but I don't really miss those as I rarely shifted myself as I felt that the RL was a bit sluggish in responding to those paddle shifts.

Cadillac covers all maintenance for the first 50k miles. The onboard computer called for it's first service at 7,500 miles and all it needed was an oil change. GM requires their proprietary Dexos synthetic blend. Tire rotations are not performed on this car since it comes with a staggered wheel setup.

I do have all my service records from my RL and I've created a spreadsheet so I can track what I experienced at certain point for both cars. While both cars called for their first service at around the same time, the RL's first warranty trip wasn't until about 10K miles, and that was for the rattling rear deck. At around 12K miles was the first of 6-7 visits (over the life of the car) to replace the shorted out door handles.

So we will see. Consumer Reports recently named the CTS coupe the most reliable domestic car. A noteworthy nomination I guess, but it feels a bit like being named the best of the worst.

I guess only more time and miles will tell.

In the end, while I still smile when I see a 2nd gen RL on the road, I must say I love my CTS and don't regret the purchase.

123456SPEED

Cue, I call it Yuk. Leave the scrolling, icon overload, too many gimmicky lights off my car please. I have an iPad and computer screens at home. Not impressed. Some may want to operate their car with an iPad interface, not me.
Unfortunately looks like the RLX is going to screen overload too, but it will at least probably be a better GUI. Acura would never do a kitchy inerface like that, I hope.

GoHawks

The reviews are mixed on the Caddy forums. Some agree with you, others are positive on it and say that you have to get used to it and when you do it works pretty well. Cadillac is spending a lot of money to try and avoid what happened with Ford and MyFord Touch. Each dealer is supposed to have dedicated "tech" that are experts on the system who can help customers get over the learning curve and answer questions.

Like I said before, the redundant buttons might make it better.

I really don't have much first hand experience with CUE, aside from playing with it on a showroom ATS when I went in for my one and only oil change.

I definitely can see how it might be distracting, but can't comment on how easy it is to get used to.

I do like the feature of being able to reconfigure the instrument panel, but that is only available on the XTS and I believe the upcoming redesigned CTS. On the ATS, CUE only gives you the touch screen.

Here is a prmotional video that highlights how it works.

gogogoldrl

Thank You,
GoHawks for your honest comparison of the cars, I have a 2005 rl with almost 70.000 miles and am coming up to the end of my acura care
warranty.
This is by far the best car I have ever owned aside from some of the annoying items I could never get resolved (seat and wheel that adjust to where they want) not to my settings even with a new battery and fob being synced.
I am leery about driving this car without a warranty for the expensive electronic parts so it may be time to look for some options and access what other auto options are out there.

GoHawks

My biggest issue with my RL was the door handles. Interesting thing I figured out though is that I correlated by chronic issues with the high pressure touchless car washes I used. I started the practice of taping the door handle sensors with hockey tape before going through the car wash and I never had an issue again.

Just before I traded it in I was getting this buzzing coming from the left front speaker. I couldn't tell if it was a blown speaker or an issue with the Noise Cancellation system (it would get worse if I put my finger over the mic on the overhead console).

I had purchased the AcuraCare warranty and was going to get that addressed before the warranty expired (100K miles), but ended up trading it in just before then. I will admit I too was concerned with owning the car post warranty. Not because of any mechanical issues as the engine and SH-AWD was rock solid, but more so for the tech.

Despite those issues, I would agree with you that my RL was one of the best cars we owned. THe other was our 2004 Land Cruiser. We bought that new. Had a couple of electronic issues early on, but once those were sorted out, the car was bullet proof. We traded it in with a 160K miles last September for a CPO 2011 BMW X5. Aside from expected interior signs of wear of having raised and trucked around kids in it, the thing still ran like it did the day we drove it off the lot. It was truly a remarkable vehicle, we just wanted something a bit newer and a little smaller.


I am not kidding myself though, I don't expect the same sort of reliability from the X5, but it is MUCH MORE fun to drive. It feels like a tall sports sedan. It had 31K miles when we bought it and it has 34K on it now. While we have had no issues with it in the three months we have owned it, once the CPO warranty expires in 3.5 years either we will buy the extended warranty or we will trade it in. By then all of our kids will be off to college and we may not need an SUV any longer.

Good luck with your decision.

rlx015

Congrats - in regards to head-turners you notice, I agree only partially as Acura RL was getting head turners when it came out. Now, not much differs RL from some other newer models.

For some reason it looks like that luxury vehicles have that advantage step when the model comes out it still ahead of the other models that come out even years after.