alfadoctor

I am ready to flush my transmission and replace the oil in the differential. I have shopped on line from various sources comparing prices. Some are the same price of the dealer ($11/qt) or far less. When you consider the cheaper oil and add in shipping charges you are paying the dealer price. So an on-line deal isn't always the best deal at all.
If I let the dealer do it the oil and labor just about comes out the same price. (an option)
Suggestions?
BTW...I live in Arizona. A good source to buy the oil cheaper would be worth the drive.

thoiboi

Oemacuraparts.com? Or acuraoemparts.com


One of them is in Arizona

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

Ditto. I'm pretty sure Tim would be willing to arrange some kind of a local pickup.

truonghthe

I paid $89 for 12 quarts of DW1 ATF shipped to my door, I am not sure how much dealer will charge for (I think its like $8-11 per quart)

rlerman

I paid $37 for 3 qts of dw1, an oil filter and two washers from dealer.

i do the 3x3 trans oil change every 15k miles. Changed it today, old oil looked as red as the new oil.

i use Mobil 1 from Walmart, $22 for 5 qts.

alfadoctor

Yep, the going rate is about $10-$11 a qt. I am watching EBay for some deal that includes free shipping for a case. I called Bernardi on the east coast and by the time I added in the shipping it was about the same as the dealer. I will keep my options open and thank you for your help. If any one sees a deal share it. We can all take advantage then.

truonghthe

FIY when you looking on ebay just look for Honda DW1 instead of Acura DW1, they are the same shit but minus the mark up.

08200-9008 Genuine Honda ATF DW1 (case of 12) | eBay

that likes $7.50 per bottle.

swake457

Not really about a source, but the product. I stopped using Honda/Acura ATF fluid at around 90k miles on the transmission. Pretty much on a recommendation from a friend that's been using Honda's most of his adult life, including a TL for the last few years. I switched over to Valvoline MaxLife ATF as he suggested. It's a bit less expensive and in my opinion at least as good as OEM. My first 3x3's were always Acura fluid and they did manage to clear most of the low RPM rumbling the tranny would make at around 1500 - 1800 rpm's. It usually came back within about an oil change interval or so. After I did my first 3x3 with MaxLife, the low RPM rumble was nearly gone and this time it stayed nearly gone for 30K, until my next change. I just did another 3x3 not too long ago and tried something a little different. I did the regular MaxLife 3x3, but as I neared the end of the third and final fill-up I added roughly 2 ounces, maybe a bit more, of ATP203. I hoped that be the just the right combo to make the low RPM rumble go away. Sure enough, it's gone now. That was at 160K miles on the car. I'm approaching 167K now and still no a very very little rumble. It was a small risk, bit I'll be sticking with that formula from now on.

I knew the whole idea was a risk when I first tried it, and I was ready to run another 3x3, maybe even a 4x4, to get as much of the MaxLife out of there if I had to. But it worked out. And the ATP203 helped too. For a higher mileage 2G RL like mine, with no real history of issues and a good maintenance history, I would consider MaxLife ATF. Definitely less $$ than Honda/Acura fluid and more widely available.

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

On a side note, I use Max Life ATF in my Camry for years. I feel like the viscosity has changed recently to become much thinner, I don't know if you've noticed that as well.

alfadoctor

Good news to know. I will pick up 3 qts next time I am by the auto parts store and do a drain/fill and add some of that ATP203.

alfadoctor

In a follow up to my last post, I went to the Valvoline website and looked up MaxLife ATF. Here is what they post:
MaxLife™ Multi-Vehicle ATF is a full synthetic formulation with advanced additives to prevent the major causes of transmission breakdown and help extend transmission life. Developed to help prevent leaks, maximize transmission performance, reduce transmission wear, and maintain smooth shifting longer than conventional fluids. It is suitable for use in a broad range of ATF applications including most Ford, GM, Toyota & Honda models as well as Dex/Merc, Mercon LV and many more applications.

Sounds like it covers a lot of transmissions including Nissan, Mitsubishi, and Toyota.

swake457

I haven't noticed any difference in viscosity myself, but I honestly don't recall the feeling of the versions I used a couple years ago versus what I'm using now though.

The AT-203 fluid comes in small 8 ounce bottles, so one bottle should last a while.

alfadoctor

A thank you to those who posted the help on this. I just did a drain and fill on the RL today at 211,000 miles. The hard shifts are gone and it is back to its smooth operation. I used the Valvoline DuraMax as suggested. That stuff stinks!
Someone put in the drain plug with a long extension and it took me a hard pull to get the plug out. Once it was out there was the typical black crud on the magnet. Easy clean-up and refill. Next change won't be so long. Now to change out the rear differential fluid.

Huskymaniac

Maxlife has gotten thinner with poorer viscosity index over time. The dilemma here is that DW-1 is thinner than Z1 and appears to cause some shifting issues. Redline D4 is great but maybe a little too thick. I did a quick calculation and I think the solution is to blend D4 with DW-1. 2 parts D4 and 1 part DW-1 give a viscosity that is very close to Z1. Redline lasts longer than the Honda fluids as it doesn't depend on viscosity modifiers to get a high viscosity index. So a drain and refill every other oil change is more than sufficient. Another option is to blend D4 and D6. The blend with DW-1 will yield a higher viscosity index and we hope Honda put the right amount of friction modifiers in it. So that seems like the best option to me right now.

alfadoctor

Huskymaniac, interesting you should mention this. As I was filling the transmission with the MaxLife, my thought was that it looked "thin" in viscosity. However, it is a synthetic so I just chalked it up to being a new type of oil. The trans shifts like a new transmission again and without the hard shifts is was exhibiting.

There are other synthetic fluids out now as the bottles say Dexron/Mercon VI or words to that effect meaning that they will fit just about every transmission. So are they all equal in viscosity? Or are the selections available so narrow that we really don't have a choice in what we can put in the transmission?

It does pay to read the back labels or go to the company website to read up on what is acceptable for your transmission. The bottle of Valvoline Dexron VI is more formulated for GM products and very few imports. The Maxlife seems to be more oriented towards imports.
It isn't the Apples to Apples as it is more like Apples and Oranges, would you agree?

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

Glad I'm not he only one who noticed the thinning of the Maxlife Dex/Merc Fluid!!

Huskymaniac

The data backs your observation. I have old viscosity numbers for Maxlife and new ones and it is definitely thinner. Also, the viscosity index is lower which means it gets REALLY thin when hot. Is that a problem? Maybe. Maybe not. Thicker means poorer gas mileage so, if that matters to you, maybe you want thinner. Thinner gets even thinner as it ages. At some point, that becomes a problem. But that point is probably more important for people that don't maintain their cars like we do.

The way I look at it is this, if we can get back to the original viscosity of Z1, with a pretty high viscosity index, why not? That formula is 2 parts Redline D4 and one part DW-1. It will shift well cold. It will shift well hot. It will age well.

alfadoctor

I am not a chemist, so now that is out of the way this is the caveat to what we are observing. The base ester for the MaxLife might be thinner to promote as mentioned better mileage. The chemical makeup of additives might be such that there is a viscosity indexer put in that as the temperature rises the shear point also rises. This is what they do with motor oils by picking a base weight and putting in additives to extend the shear point and temperature range, hence a multi-viscosity. I will drop a note to someone at Valvoline and see what I can come up with. Mixing the two oils can not hurt if you feel the viscosity is too thin by observation. Best of both worlds?

More as I get information.
Thank you to all for a great discussion...

alfadoctor

Update: I sent off an inquiry to Valvoline and I am not sure the inquiry went through. I went to the SDS product sheets and this is what I found on MaxLife. Interesting reading. Now if someone can find the SDS sheet on ZR1/DW1 we can compare products.

http://content.valvoline.com/pdf/maxlife_atf.pdf

I will dig into some of the other product lines and see what I can find in SDS sheets for the transmission fluids.

Castrol ATF: https://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/1C6B3533C4BF4B92802580B2005A9D57/$File/BPXE-AFE8UE.pdf

alfadoctor

Update: I just received a reply from Valvoline and here is what they said:
"We have attached a copy of our current MaxLife ATF product information sheet for your review. This document lists the viscosity properties of MaxLife Automatic Transmission Fluid. Also attached you will find a document we refer to as our "MaxLife Letter". This document outlines the wide variety of transmission fluid specifications the product is recommended for. The oldest outdated MaxLife ATF product information sheet readily available to us on the product support team is dated 9/14/2012. On this data sheet the viscosity specifications are exactly the same as our current data sheets, indicating the viscosity of the product has remained unchanged since at least 2012. Unfortunately, we do not have documentation directly comparing your manufacturer's fluid with our product. While using MaxLife Automatic Transmission Fluid, we recommend following your manufacturer's recommended service interval."

I am sure the sheet is the same as the one I posted a link to from their website earlier today.

Huskymaniac

Has anyone ever measured exactly how much ATF fluid drains out of the transmission on a simple drain? I have seen 2.9, 3, 3.8 and 4 quarts.

projektvertx

iTrader: (2)

i poured 2.5 back into the some quart bottles. The spec I read in the service manual says 2.9 drain and fill.

alfadoctor

The first drain I was over 3 quarts. One the 2nd drain I was under 3. Go figure how that happens.

truonghthe

I got consistence of 2.5-2.6 quarts during each drain and fill.

alfadoctor

You were correct about the viscosity of the oils being different. So I did a deep search on the various products that said they were compatible to ZF1 and DW!. Side note: both of these come from a petroleum company out of Jefferson Indiana with different names)

I will list the oil, viscosity at 40C/100C/Viscosity Index (weight) so you can compare them. This is from the company data sheets and I take no responsibility, as this is information only.
Honda ZF1 29.4 - 7.0 - ~
Honda DW1 25.9 - 8 - ~
ENEOS Eco ATF 27.6 - 5.73- 155
Valvoline Max Life 28.82 - 5.91 - 156
RedLine D4 34 - 7.5- 198
Royal Purple Max Life 35.5 - 7.3 - 177
Conklin ATF XTRA MS 35.2 - 7.68 - 197
Castrol Transmax ImportMulti-Vehiclee 36.6 - 7.68 - 200

If I missed one, let me known and I will modify my post if I can.

Huskymaniac

Here is what I am going to do. I just got the car and I am assuming the previous owner did a flush with DW-1. I am going to do a drain and refill with straight Redline D4 for the first two times I do a drain and refill. After that, I am going to use 2 quarts of Redline D4 and 1ish quarts of DW-1 at each drain and refill. I am going to do a drain and refill every other oil change. That should get me to a viscosity that is close to ZF1 with high quality fluids.