Saab XWD..rip off of SH-AWD
03-27-2009, 07:08 AM
#3
Safety Car
Well look at Audi and ZF (for BMW) who not only have variable torque AWD differentials coming on line, they vary from side to side in the front as well as the back!
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4225886.html
Variable torque is all the rage with the premium car companies
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4225886.html
Variable torque is all the rage with the premium car companies
03-27-2009, 10:30 AM
#5
Senior Moderator
This is old news. BMW's new system has been talked about for three years. Further, Saab is pretty much dead.
Acura's problem is that as usual, they lead the pack in technology, but they just haven't marketed effectively. SH-AWD is a phenomenal torque-vectoring system and has been honed with each model it has touched....first the RL, with its planetary gear, then the MDX and RDX, and now for the new TL. They are doing a better job with the marketing, but hopefully it isn't too little, too late as the other manufacturers are eating Acura's lunch.
Acura's problem is that as usual, they lead the pack in technology, but they just haven't marketed effectively. SH-AWD is a phenomenal torque-vectoring system and has been honed with each model it has touched....first the RL, with its planetary gear, then the MDX and RDX, and now for the new TL. They are doing a better job with the marketing, but hopefully it isn't too little, too late as the other manufacturers are eating Acura's lunch.
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03-27-2009, 08:16 PM
#9
My only car is a Bus
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I guess Mazda invented it in the 80s!
http://www.ae-plus.com/key%20topics/...2008-mazda.htm
"We’re going to aim at best tuning for the base suspension. In steering, electronic power steering will contribute more and will include active steering. Electric power assisted steering (EPAS) was a starting point and as time goes on, there will be more evolution towards active steering. Using EPAS you can achieve the same results as electronic torque vectoring.
"Mazda looked at four-wheel steering technology around 20 years ago, but the control technology was not sufficient then. It is a lower priority now. Our view is that more passive rear suspension toe control could work – the mechanical force adjusts the toe.
"We invented such a system back in the 1980s that used a linkage on the suspension. We’ve been refining it so it doesn’t just adjust to longitudinal load changes, but also vertical movements and lateral forces, but ideally toe change should be zero."
http://www.ae-plus.com/key%20topics/...2008-mazda.htm
"We’re going to aim at best tuning for the base suspension. In steering, electronic power steering will contribute more and will include active steering. Electric power assisted steering (EPAS) was a starting point and as time goes on, there will be more evolution towards active steering. Using EPAS you can achieve the same results as electronic torque vectoring.
"Mazda looked at four-wheel steering technology around 20 years ago, but the control technology was not sufficient then. It is a lower priority now. Our view is that more passive rear suspension toe control could work – the mechanical force adjusts the toe.
"We invented such a system back in the 1980s that used a linkage on the suspension. We’ve been refining it so it doesn’t just adjust to longitudinal load changes, but also vertical movements and lateral forces, but ideally toe change should be zero."
This is old news. BMW's new system has been talked about for three years. Further, Saab is pretty much dead.
Acura's problem is that as usual, they lead the pack in technology, but they just haven't marketed effectively. SH-AWD is a phenomenal torque-vectoring system and has been honed with each model it has touched....first the RL, with its planetary gear, then the MDX and RDX, and now for the new TL. They are doing a better job with the marketing, but hopefully it isn't too little, too late as the other manufacturers are eating Acura's lunch.
Acura's problem is that as usual, they lead the pack in technology, but they just haven't marketed effectively. SH-AWD is a phenomenal torque-vectoring system and has been honed with each model it has touched....first the RL, with its planetary gear, then the MDX and RDX, and now for the new TL. They are doing a better job with the marketing, but hopefully it isn't too little, too late as the other manufacturers are eating Acura's lunch.
03-28-2009, 06:41 AM
#10
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Mazda'a system is apples to oranges to a true torque vectoring system.
We had a '93 Mazda MX-6 LS that had what was claimed a suspension that provided passive 4 wheel STEERING system. While it was a fun little car that handled very well, it was still a FWD car that experienced the same drawbacks of having most of it's weight sitting squarely on the wheels doing the steering.
True that having the rear wheels "steer" helps reduce understeer, but if I recall correctly, it relied on the vehicle load (not sensors) to cause the rear wheels to toe and create the 4 wheel steering effect. You essentially had to begin understeering for it to be corrected.
Torque vectoring uses vehicle sensors (yaw, steering wheel, ABS), to determine what's happening and adjusts the torque before you are in understeer.
Now I'm sure the current Mazdas are using more sophistcated sensors to activate the rear suspension, but then it's no longer passive.
With torque vectoring you are actually driving the wheels by forcing oversteer. 4 wheel steering is merely pointing the wheels. The net effect may be similar, but how it's done is completely different.
We had a '93 Mazda MX-6 LS that had what was claimed a suspension that provided passive 4 wheel STEERING system. While it was a fun little car that handled very well, it was still a FWD car that experienced the same drawbacks of having most of it's weight sitting squarely on the wheels doing the steering.
True that having the rear wheels "steer" helps reduce understeer, but if I recall correctly, it relied on the vehicle load (not sensors) to cause the rear wheels to toe and create the 4 wheel steering effect. You essentially had to begin understeering for it to be corrected.
Torque vectoring uses vehicle sensors (yaw, steering wheel, ABS), to determine what's happening and adjusts the torque before you are in understeer.
Now I'm sure the current Mazdas are using more sophistcated sensors to activate the rear suspension, but then it's no longer passive.
With torque vectoring you are actually driving the wheels by forcing oversteer. 4 wheel steering is merely pointing the wheels. The net effect may be similar, but how it's done is completely different.
03-29-2009, 10:25 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
To believe it or not, SAAB did not come up with XWD. They purchased the technology from Haldex, whom produces the all wheel drive systems for VW/Audi.
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