paul_philly

I recently read an article that suggested Acura would never build an AWD TL because no one would then buy the RL. However, in the TL posts, they are writing about a rumored 2008 TL with SH-AWD.

I owned an 04 TL-Navi for two tears before upgrading to the RL, and that was primarily for AWD. If the TL was made in an AWD version and there was still a 12-15K difference in price, I believe I would choose the TL AWD.

I also believe that a majority of people would agree with me, and if I am correct, would Acura be making a big mistake by doing that? If the RL were ever discontinued in America, our resale would suffer tremendously.

Just surveying to see what others think.

vp911

Well after having both the RL and TL. I would get the RL over the TL again. I paid 45k for the RL and find it to be worth every penny over the TL. With the RL selling at 40-42k for the year end, there is no question I would pick the RL again over the TL. The TL was nice in almost every way, except the annoying rattles - but once you have been in the interior of the RL for a little while you will see a big difference. While I like the TL a lot, I say RL over TL with sh-awd mainly because of the materials.

kensukikatayo

There would still be a difference in the classes they fit into, if what you're saying about having one feature that's the same in the TL and RL (AWD) making one class obsolete, then wouldn't that be true of all other manufacturers too? Like say the BMW 545i and the 745i both have the same engines I believe and they're both RWD, wouldn't that eliminate the need for a 745i? It's just that the RL is a step above the TL in room, luxury, etc, I doubt people will ever stop buying RL's just because the TL got SH-AWD too. It might happen if the materials, finish, etc were all very similar and the features were the same and the price difference was still there, then what reason would people have to pick the more expensive RL when they could get a similarly equipped TL for 15k less from the same manufacturer?

On a side note, an AWD TL would be awesome, maybe they'd bring back the CL too... in AWD!

vp911

I wish for an RL coupe :-D

ASP

Ditto.

spacklebucket

If there was a 6-speed AWD TL, I probably would have gotten one.

jhr3uva90

If they have a SH-AWD TL by 2008, then I'm sure the RL will have additional new features by then.

paul_philly

Thanks for your replies - I enjoy hearing all of your opinions - that what makes this site so valuable.

Since my RL has everything I want (except a touch screen navi...so annoying), I am planning to keep the car for at least 7 uears or 100,000 miles because of the extended warranty. I'm sure I'll love it the whole time...

GIBSON6594

I'm waiting for either the TL or G35 to get AWD, then i'm gonna get one of either.

kensukikatayo

Enjoy the RL, I've always loved that car but I'm a bit young to be seen in something like that. Acura -rattles, squeaking

jhr3uva90

I think the G35 is already available with AWD.

vp911

Yeah - it is the G35x, but I don't think it has the 6mt option.

jhr3uva90

Are there any cars with AWD and a manual transmission other than BMW?

ASP

Audi

kensukikatayo

Subaru but that's not in the same class luxury-wise.

kensukikatayo

Volvos maybe? I know there's an AWD S60 but I don't think it comes in stick. The S60R is a 6 speed and it's AWD.

hemants

Acura has a real design overlap issue which is the real problem. Subaru puts AWD in every car so there's no reason for Acura not to offer it.

The RL is not much bigger if at all than the TL and smaller than the 2nd gen TL.

What they should have done is made it larger than a 5 series but smaller than a 7 and offered it with a V8.

I also believe they should have kept the TSX/TL family resemblance instead of giving it an Accord rear with RSX headlights.

GIBSON6594

My mistake, I was refering to the coupe

Rob L

I think they will add the awd system to the TL in the near future. I also dont think it will make the RL useless. I have been in the TL and the interior of the RL is far superior to the TL. Also, the RL is quieter than the TL. Some people seem to just totally not give a fuck about this and only look at car size and think the RL must not have anything over the TL aside from the SH-AWD system since they are close in size.

It'll be a good move on Acura's part to add the system to the TL ASAP.

mrdeeno

I concur with you that acura has a problem with their overlap, but if they add AWD to the TL, I don't think it would hurt the RL but may hurt TL-AWD sales.

The TL and RL are close in size, and there's a big MSRP price difference. Since the RL is selling at pretty big discounts, the prices are even closer. Add AWD to the TL and increase its price, and the price gap gets even smaller.

If I were purchasing/leasing a car and the price gap is pretty small between these 2, I'd spring for the RL with more features and better fit/finish/quality and a slightly larger interior.

So maybe they crunched their numbers and figured the investment to add SH-AWD to the TL wasn't worth it.

HAGENDAS

I have almost always driven Subarus and will always have AWD. Didn't think that iI was the luxery car type until I planted my backside in my RL.

Precision Crafted

I see the TL as being the more fun of the two to drive. The RL in my eyes is about luxuary and comfort in a package that has close to 300 hp. The TL is for the driver that wants to feel the road and have fun going around the corners. To the RL's credit, it as more capable of cornering then the TL. The TL has been judged as near perfect expect the drive layout.

The only thing AWD will do for the TL is make it a true alternative to the RWD crowd. If that were the only thing Acura were to add to the current generation then sales would continue to be good.

The RL may loose some customers but not much I think as I stated it is on a different mission the the TL. Now, IMO, the RL would have benifited from a longer wheel base to give rear passangers more leg room while keeping the over all length. Compaired to its competitors the RL has similar exterior measurements but the wheel base is shorter by 2" at the lest.

vp911

Yes, but let's hope that the 06' RL and future RL prices are not in the low 40's.

phile

[QUOTE=hemants]
The RL is not much bigger if at all than the TL and smaller than the 2nd gen TL.

QUOTE]

Note that the RL is also smaller in its exterior dimensions than the 1st gen RL. I think it's wider, but shorter in length. The TL as well is smaller on its exterior dimensions than the 2nd gen TL. I don't really see the point you're making here

kensukikatayo

This is where Acura needs to fix their overlap issue. They're not making full use of the benefits of the overlap but instead they're creating problems for themselves. I agree that they have great features and offer a great value though.

jhr3uva90

2nd Generation RL (2005 - ) 193.60 inches long
1st Generation RL (1996- 2004) 196.60 inches
3rd Generation TL (2004 - ) 189.30 inches
2nd Generation TL (1999 - 2003) 192.50 inches

kensukikatayo

True, but what about it?

jhr3uva90

I believe that it was mentioned earlier that the current RL is shorter than both the second generation RL and TL. While is is shorter than the old RL (what isn't?), it is slightly longer than the old TL.

As far as overlap is concerned, I don't see much overlap between the size of the TL and the size of the RL. The TL is noticeably smaller and racier than the RL, although not dramatically so. Also, bear in mind that the new 3 series BMW is closer to the size of the 5 series than it used to be.

iksenna

As a 05TL owner I couldnt help but read this thread. I've been debating for a while whether to upgrade to the RL (granted its a jump in price but also in quality) or to stick with my TL. I love my TL, its sharp looking, great handling, the touch screen NAVI is amazing and for a day-in day-out commuter its great on gas...but.....as a self employed contractor taking time time off to drive to the dealership every few months or so to fix rattles (which really annoy over long commutes) or mechanical issues is something which I am just not warming too. In fact I'm been debating whether to ditch Acura altogether (My wifes G35 has been flawless straight out of the box).

My question to the RL folks is the RL really that much better than the TL? If all prices were equal, would you stick with the RL or perhaps choose an M45, GS300 etc? IS THE RL THAT GOOD..?????

As a frustrated TL owner, any pointers would be much appreciated.....

jhr3uva90

If prices were equal, I would consider the Infiniti M45 because of the V8 engine. The Lexus GS, on the other hand, is still a little too. . . Lexus for my taste.

However, prices are not the same. You could get a leftover 2005 RL for an amazingly low price right now, which makes it a good value. If you happen to live in an area covered my NavTraffic, then that would be a nice bonus. Also, with the RL, torque steer would be a thing of the past for you.

vp911

Prices being equal I would still get the RL. Although, I would have to give the GS serious thought. Their service is MUCH better than acura all together.

catsailr

The SH AWD would add weight to the TL and would decrease the straight-line acceleration and gas milege. It might take away from what people like about the TL. I loved my 04 TL, but I also love my 05 RL - just different type of cars.

jhr3uva90

I agree that adding SH AWD will make the TL heavier, thereby reducing gas milage. It will also make the car more expensive. My guess is that Acura would make it an option, like they do the navigation system.

When it comes to Lexus' service, I hear it is better than EVERYBODY'S, not just Acura's.

vp911

True, Lexus is better than pretty much everybody.

I agree, the sh-awd will probably be an option on the TL - not everybody wants AWD.

jhr3uva90

I don't think everyone even knows what AWD is.

vp911

Exactly. Somebody had mentioned that people down south probably havn't heard of AWD - and that is probably true - they generally don't care for it or need it without the snow.

jhr3uva90

Right, and if a driver isn't lead-footed on the accelerator, then s/he probably won't the TL's torque steer problem. It drove me crazy when I had a CL Type S, though.

catsailr

Hey, I'm down south and that is one reason I traded my TL for the RL. The only thing I didn't like about the TL was the torque steer. AWD had more advantages than just snow.

hondamore

I agree that not everyone understands the advantages of AWD, even on dry roads. There is a misconception that AWD is only useful in snowy climates. While AWD is a huge advantage in the snow, AWD (and especially the SH-AWD) also helps on dry pavement. Especially compared to the FWD TL, the elimination of torque steer, the lack of that little tire chirp off the line, better acceleration out of a corner etc are all ways that AWD is advantageous on dry roads. SH-AWD adds the benefit of improved handling, especially during aggressive driving. The weight penalty of AWD is the great equalizer, however, and the return of the rear seat middle "hump" is the other compromise that must be accepted with AWD vs FWD. I agree that Acura will offer it as an option on the TL and let the buyers make up their minds which system is best for their personal driving style.

jhr3uva90

I think Acura needs to put out some infomericals that explain the advantages of SH-AWD. A 30-second commercial is inadequate for extolling the system's virtues. They're going to have to really educate the public in an entertaining way.