OK, you asked for a comparison - RL v. LS
01-06-2008, 05:15 PM
#1
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OK, you asked for a comparison - RL v. LS
Some of you have asked for some RL/LS comparison comments, and with only a little over 150 miles on my new LS460, I’ve already noted some interesting differences between it and my RL.
I won’t bore you with my impressions of which one is the “better” car, since much of that is subjective, but some of things Acura does better are worth noting, as are some of the things where Lexus stands out. So here’s a quick “pro and con”:
RL Pros:
- Needless to say, the Acura Nav is, overall, superior to the Lexus one. Although the LS’s Nav does a few things the Acura one doesn’t, things are just easier to do with the RL’s system. And of course, there’s the biggie – the LS’s in-motion lockout.
- The Acura cruise control system manages speed a lot better than the LS’s. While the LS will coast well past the set speed on a downhill, the RL’s tends to keep you at the set speed a lot better.
- The RL’s brake feel is better than the LS’s. People gripe that the RL’s brakes feel a little weak, but they were easy to modulate. The LS’s brakes are strong, but they’re almost touchy, and it’s a little harder to come to a smooth, measured stop.
- The LS deposits brake dust on the wheels. I didn’t have a dusting problem with my RL.
- The RL’s EBC is also better. I could stop in both the RL and MDX with very little nosedive, but the LS’s EBC isn’t as effective in that regard.
- The RL’s steering feel is better. The LS has electric power steering, and while it’s fine in most cases, it feels a little “artificial” at low speeds, kinda like an older Cadillac.
- The RL’s stability in heavy crosswinds is better. We had 35mph direct crosswinds today and at 70mph, the big LS moved around on the road more than I remember the RL doing.
- The RL’s great TPMS display shows each wheel and lets you know immediately what the pressure is in each one. The LS’s display shows the pressures in a vertical column, and you don’t necessarily know if a given number is for the right front or left rear. It does, however, show the spare tire’s pressure.
- The RL’s cruise control main switch can be turned on and left on, but the LS’s toggles off every time you turn the ignition off. Since I use cruise all the time, it’s an extra step I have to remember.
- The RL has a dedicated phone button on the wheel, whereas the LS uses the “Talk” button to make calls. That requires two extra steps in the LS – you have to say “Phone”, then say “Dial by number” (or “Dial by name”), then finally say the number (or name). In the RL, I simply pushed the Phone button and said “Dial 555-555-5555”, then “Dial”, and it completed the call.
- The BT voice recognition in the RL seems superior to the LS’s. I tried 4 times today to enter a phone number and it always took my “5” to be a “9”. No trouble so far on Nav addresses, so it seems to be a BT issue.
LS460 Pros –
- The V-8 engine and 8-spd transmission are more flexible than the RL’s V-6, 5-spd.
- The LS’s Nav offers to re-route if you encounter a traffic tie-up. And you can set it to do so automatically if you want to.
- There is no “nag screen” on the LS’s Nav requiring you to say “I agree”.
- The LS has the “touch to lock/unlock” feature on all four doors, whereas the RL has it only on the front doors.
- The LS has automatic power door closers, so you only need to let the door contact the latch and it pulls it closed. The trunk opens on its own after touching the switch, and has a button to automatically close it for you. No messy handprints.
- The LS has a power thigh extension seat adjustment that extends or retracts the driver’s seat lower cushion to better fit your height.
- The LS’s parking brake is electric, and can be set to automatically set each time the car is put in Park. It then releases when you take the car out of Park.
- The LS has a “Hold” button on the steering wheel that keeps the car stopped at traffic lights or in stop-and-go traffic. Set it once and it holds the car each time you come to a complete stop. Apply the gas and it releases. It keeps the car from rolling back or creeping ahead without having to hold the brake pedal.
- The LS has power folding rearview mirrors that can be set to automatically fold whenever you lock the car, then unfold when you unlock it.
- The inside AND outside mirrors are auto-dimming on the LS, as opposed to just the inside mirror.
- The LS comes with a full-size spare and extra alloy wheel instead of a donut and steel wheel like the RL.
- The LS has dual-pane laminated side window glass, which blocks outside sound.
- The LS has a smog and pollen filter that automatically switches on when it senses contaminates in the air, as opposed to the RL’s cabin filter.
- The LS has heated AND air-conditioned front seats, as well as heated rear seats.
- The LS has controls in the rear seat armrest/console for the heated seats as well as the rear window sunshade, so the passengers can control those things themselves.
- The rear window sunshade in the LS automatically retracts for better visibility when the car is put in Reverse, then goes backup when put in Drive, whereas the RL’s stays up.
- The proximity warning system in the LS works on both the front and rear, and uses warning tones and a nice big active graphic on the Nav screen.
________________________________________
Again, this is just for informational purposes. It's always interesting to me to see what other mfr's are doing, and it sometimes points the way for improvements in the products we have.
Aside from the Nav deficiencies in the LS460, the main difference is probably in the ride and handling department, and it boils down to whether you value outright handling over ride quality. In my own case, I've come to value a luxurious ride more. I can drive down the same streets that induced jiggles and jolts in the RL and not even feel them in the LS. Ditto for dips and whoop-de-doo's on freeways and highways. That's what I like, even if I have to slow a tad for a corkscrew turn.
That may not be an acceptable trade-off for you, but I've found everything has trade-offs of one kind or another, and we all find which choices are the best for us.
As I discover more I'll pass it along if anyone is interested.
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I won’t bore you with my impressions of which one is the “better” car, since much of that is subjective, but some of things Acura does better are worth noting, as are some of the things where Lexus stands out. So here’s a quick “pro and con”:
RL Pros:
- Needless to say, the Acura Nav is, overall, superior to the Lexus one. Although the LS’s Nav does a few things the Acura one doesn’t, things are just easier to do with the RL’s system. And of course, there’s the biggie – the LS’s in-motion lockout.
- The Acura cruise control system manages speed a lot better than the LS’s. While the LS will coast well past the set speed on a downhill, the RL’s tends to keep you at the set speed a lot better.
- The RL’s brake feel is better than the LS’s. People gripe that the RL’s brakes feel a little weak, but they were easy to modulate. The LS’s brakes are strong, but they’re almost touchy, and it’s a little harder to come to a smooth, measured stop.
- The LS deposits brake dust on the wheels. I didn’t have a dusting problem with my RL.
- The RL’s EBC is also better. I could stop in both the RL and MDX with very little nosedive, but the LS’s EBC isn’t as effective in that regard.
- The RL’s steering feel is better. The LS has electric power steering, and while it’s fine in most cases, it feels a little “artificial” at low speeds, kinda like an older Cadillac.
- The RL’s stability in heavy crosswinds is better. We had 35mph direct crosswinds today and at 70mph, the big LS moved around on the road more than I remember the RL doing.
- The RL’s great TPMS display shows each wheel and lets you know immediately what the pressure is in each one. The LS’s display shows the pressures in a vertical column, and you don’t necessarily know if a given number is for the right front or left rear. It does, however, show the spare tire’s pressure.
- The RL’s cruise control main switch can be turned on and left on, but the LS’s toggles off every time you turn the ignition off. Since I use cruise all the time, it’s an extra step I have to remember.
- The RL has a dedicated phone button on the wheel, whereas the LS uses the “Talk” button to make calls. That requires two extra steps in the LS – you have to say “Phone”, then say “Dial by number” (or “Dial by name”), then finally say the number (or name). In the RL, I simply pushed the Phone button and said “Dial 555-555-5555”, then “Dial”, and it completed the call.
- The BT voice recognition in the RL seems superior to the LS’s. I tried 4 times today to enter a phone number and it always took my “5” to be a “9”. No trouble so far on Nav addresses, so it seems to be a BT issue.
LS460 Pros –
- The V-8 engine and 8-spd transmission are more flexible than the RL’s V-6, 5-spd.
- The LS’s Nav offers to re-route if you encounter a traffic tie-up. And you can set it to do so automatically if you want to.
- There is no “nag screen” on the LS’s Nav requiring you to say “I agree”.
- The LS has the “touch to lock/unlock” feature on all four doors, whereas the RL has it only on the front doors.
- The LS has automatic power door closers, so you only need to let the door contact the latch and it pulls it closed. The trunk opens on its own after touching the switch, and has a button to automatically close it for you. No messy handprints.
- The LS has a power thigh extension seat adjustment that extends or retracts the driver’s seat lower cushion to better fit your height.
- The LS’s parking brake is electric, and can be set to automatically set each time the car is put in Park. It then releases when you take the car out of Park.
- The LS has a “Hold” button on the steering wheel that keeps the car stopped at traffic lights or in stop-and-go traffic. Set it once and it holds the car each time you come to a complete stop. Apply the gas and it releases. It keeps the car from rolling back or creeping ahead without having to hold the brake pedal.
- The LS has power folding rearview mirrors that can be set to automatically fold whenever you lock the car, then unfold when you unlock it.
- The inside AND outside mirrors are auto-dimming on the LS, as opposed to just the inside mirror.
- The LS comes with a full-size spare and extra alloy wheel instead of a donut and steel wheel like the RL.
- The LS has dual-pane laminated side window glass, which blocks outside sound.
- The LS has a smog and pollen filter that automatically switches on when it senses contaminates in the air, as opposed to the RL’s cabin filter.
- The LS has heated AND air-conditioned front seats, as well as heated rear seats.
- The LS has controls in the rear seat armrest/console for the heated seats as well as the rear window sunshade, so the passengers can control those things themselves.
- The rear window sunshade in the LS automatically retracts for better visibility when the car is put in Reverse, then goes backup when put in Drive, whereas the RL’s stays up.
- The proximity warning system in the LS works on both the front and rear, and uses warning tones and a nice big active graphic on the Nav screen.
________________________________________
Again, this is just for informational purposes. It's always interesting to me to see what other mfr's are doing, and it sometimes points the way for improvements in the products we have.
Aside from the Nav deficiencies in the LS460, the main difference is probably in the ride and handling department, and it boils down to whether you value outright handling over ride quality. In my own case, I've come to value a luxurious ride more. I can drive down the same streets that induced jiggles and jolts in the RL and not even feel them in the LS. Ditto for dips and whoop-de-doo's on freeways and highways. That's what I like, even if I have to slow a tad for a corkscrew turn.
That may not be an acceptable trade-off for you, but I've found everything has trade-offs of one kind or another, and we all find which choices are the best for us.
As I discover more I'll pass it along if anyone is interested.
.
.
01-06-2008, 05:31 PM
#2
A Saitama Garage
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Nice summary of the differences. It's good to hear that the RL is still a good comparison to the LS. I agree, they're both great cars and everyone finds what suits them best. I'm a pretty short guy, so driving an LS for me, would be like driving a limo. As it is, I feel like a kid in the RL.
I think the 2 features that I wish I had the most from your list are the auto folding rearview mirrors and cooled seats/heated rear seats.
Enjoy your beautiful ride. You're a lucky man. Love the color, btw.
I think the 2 features that I wish I had the most from your list are the auto folding rearview mirrors and cooled seats/heated rear seats.
Enjoy your beautiful ride. You're a lucky man. Love the color, btw.
01-06-2008, 06:37 PM
#3
Senior Moderator
Great summary, Mike. Thank you so much for sharing this. The big Lex is definitely a no-holds barred luxury car. Acura has nothing like it.....maybe they will in the future. After all, the RL can't be a GS-class competitor AND an LS-class competitor.
01-06-2008, 08:40 PM
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Wow I would love the autodimming side mirrors that would be awesome. If you dont mind me asking I noticed you said you traded in an MDX and RL for this car and I was just wondering why before you needed 2 cars before and now just 1 car?
Also while the LS might be a better car then the RL (as well it should be for the price), I think you RL owners have a much nicer car then the GS. I dont know why but that car does nothing for me. I honestly dont like its interior at all but for some reason I love the LS and IS interior yet I dont like the middle of the line one. Also I know a common complaint with the RL is that it doesnt look like a 50k car but in my opinion the GS doesnt look any more of a luxury car in my opinion.
Also while the LS might be a better car then the RL (as well it should be for the price), I think you RL owners have a much nicer car then the GS. I dont know why but that car does nothing for me. I honestly dont like its interior at all but for some reason I love the LS and IS interior yet I dont like the middle of the line one. Also I know a common complaint with the RL is that it doesnt look like a 50k car but in my opinion the GS doesnt look any more of a luxury car in my opinion.
01-06-2008, 09:56 PM
#6
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by William4
Will the adaptive cruise control bring the LS to a complete stop?
What's the minimum speed it will operate at?
What's the minimum speed it will operate at?
Trackrunner - I've kept two cars for several years because I was driving about 30,000 miles a year. That would kill me on a lease and would even be a big disadvantage on an owned car, since it would hurt the resale value so much.
So what I've been doing is leasing two cars at 15,000 miles a year each and dividing my mileage between the two of them. I've recently changed my driving pattern and I *think* I can make it by with around 15,000 a year using my wife's car for some of the extra miles. And even if I go a little over the 15,000 mile limit, I can just trade the car before the lease is up and not get hurt.
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01-07-2008, 10:59 AM
#10
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by Rexorg
Great comparo. If the '09 RL doesn't pan out my next car might be the LS. How about a review of the Mark Levinson system when you get a chance?
Since the audio system in a car is important to me here is my take. First let me say, I have not heard the ML is the new LS 460, but on of the 3 series. Upon returning from my test drive, I told the dealer I wanted to hear the ML system in a lexus. To my surprise he told me, the car HAD the system in it. I found it to be nothing special, and thought overall the RL system was better. One advantage the RL has with its system, is that you can adjust the level of the sub woofer which can add lots of "body" to the music.
01-07-2008, 11:03 AM
#11
Drifting
Originally Posted by Chuck091279
+1 on the rear sunshade. Perhaps they added that on '06?
01-07-2008, 12:16 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by Trackruner228
Wow I would love the autodimming side mirrors that would be awesome. If you dont mind me asking I noticed you said you traded in an MDX and RL for this car and I was just wondering why before you needed 2 cars before and now just 1 car?
Also while the LS might be a better car then the RL (as well it should be for the price), I think you RL owners have a much nicer car then the GS. I dont know why but that car does nothing for me. I honestly dont like its interior at all but for some reason I love the LS and IS interior yet I dont like the middle of the line one. Also I know a common complaint with the RL is that it doesnt look like a 50k car but in my opinion the GS doesnt look any more of a luxury car in my opinion.
Also while the LS might be a better car then the RL (as well it should be for the price), I think you RL owners have a much nicer car then the GS. I dont know why but that car does nothing for me. I honestly dont like its interior at all but for some reason I love the LS and IS interior yet I dont like the middle of the line one. Also I know a common complaint with the RL is that it doesnt look like a 50k car but in my opinion the GS doesnt look any more of a luxury car in my opinion.
I'm like you...I like the LS, IS and ES interior (in that order) but the GS interior is just blah to me. Same with the exterior.
I feel the GS is the stepchild of the whole Lexus model line.
Anyway, great comparo and it is ncie to hear this from you Mike as we all know how much you like the RL so your opinion holds a lot of weight.
Now all we need is VoDoc to chime in with his unfunny beating a dead horse type joke about the LS460 being a nice Camry
01-07-2008, 02:35 PM
#14
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Rob L
I had a GS for overnight and drove it a lot to see how it compares to my RL and IMO it is quite inferior to the RL...and I am a huge Lexus fanboy.
I'm like you...I like the LS, IS and ES interior (in that order) but the GS interior is just blah to me. Same with the exterior.
I feel the GS is the stepchild of the whole Lexus model line.
Anyway, great comparo and it is ncie to hear this from you Mike as we all know how much you like the RL so your opinion holds a lot of weight.
Now all we need is VoDoc to chime in with his unfunny beating a dead horse type joke about the LS460 being a nice Camry
I'm like you...I like the LS, IS and ES interior (in that order) but the GS interior is just blah to me. Same with the exterior.
I feel the GS is the stepchild of the whole Lexus model line.
Anyway, great comparo and it is ncie to hear this from you Mike as we all know how much you like the RL so your opinion holds a lot of weight.
Now all we need is VoDoc to chime in with his unfunny beating a dead horse type joke about the LS460 being a nice Camry
VOdoc knows the LS isn't a big Camry - he's just jerking my chain.
I agree on the GS, Rob. It's interior is just so-so and overall it's a little oout of step with the rest of the current Lexus lineup.
As for the rear sunshade, Im sorry if I wasn't clear. On my '06 RL, the shade would retract when I put the car in Reverse, but it wouldn't come back up automatically like the one on the LS does.
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01-07-2008, 02:59 PM
#15
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by dwest1023
Since the audio system in a car is important to me here is my take. First let me say, I have not heard the ML is the new LS 460, but on of the 3 series. Upon returning from my test drive, I told the dealer I wanted to hear the ML system in a lexus. To my surprise he told me, the car HAD the system in it. I found it to be nothing special, and thought overall the RL system was better. One advantage the RL has with its system, is that you can adjust the level of the sub woofer which can add lots of "body" to the music.
I've always thought the RL's system sounded a little weak and thin at low volume levels, and didn't come to life until the volume was cranked up. At the higher volumes it filled on out and had excellent sound. I noticed this right away when I had both the TL and the RL - I always felt the TL's ELS system had more fullness and "body", but it also went muddy and distorted when pushed ( mainly in the basses).
The Mark Levinson system comes on strong even at low volume. True it has no separate subwoofer control, but the basses are almost too powerful for my little sissy ears. Even with the Bass set at the midpoint of the adjustment range, the seats vibrate with every bass beat. Crank up those 19 speakers and it can sound like an L.A. hip-hopper's Escalade with a hatch full of subs.
The one issue I do have with it is that it seems too front-biased, and that surprises me, given all the time they spent tuning it to the cabin dynamics. I actually like it with the fader set about halfway in the back, but when I have people back there they start bleeding from the ears, so I have to change it back.
The bottom line is that the RL's system is as good as any "normal" human would want it to be, and IMO it reproduces delicate highs better than any car system I've had. At the same time, it can recreate some amazing bass sounds. That Acura demo CD with all the sound effects is awesome, and shows what the RL's system can do. You just have to have the volume turned up.
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01-07-2008, 05:15 PM
#16
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Chuck091279
+1 on the rear sunshade. Perhaps they added that on '06?
01-07-2008, 10:09 PM
#17
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX
William - I don't have the adaptive cruise, so I can't answer your question. Most of the LS's in this part of the country aren't ordered by the dealers with the adaptive cruise because it doesn't sell that well.
Trackrunner - I've kept two cars for several years because I was driving about 30,000 miles a year. That would kill me on a lease and would even be a big disadvantage on an owned car, since it would hurt the resale value so much.
So what I've been doing is leasing two cars at 15,000 miles a year each and dividing my mileage between the two of them. I've recently changed my driving pattern and I *think* I can make it by with around 15,000 a year using my wife's car for some of the extra miles. And even if I go a little over the 15,000 mile limit, I can just trade the car before the lease is up and not get hurt.
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Trackrunner - I've kept two cars for several years because I was driving about 30,000 miles a year. That would kill me on a lease and would even be a big disadvantage on an owned car, since it would hurt the resale value so much.
So what I've been doing is leasing two cars at 15,000 miles a year each and dividing my mileage between the two of them. I've recently changed my driving pattern and I *think* I can make it by with around 15,000 a year using my wife's car for some of the extra miles. And even if I go a little over the 15,000 mile limit, I can just trade the car before the lease is up and not get hurt.
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01-08-2008, 09:39 AM
#18
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Trackruner228
hm I never thought of doing it like that. I must admit I am one of those people who plans ahead which besides purchasing property once I am finished college I am probably going to need a new car since mine will be 11 years old. So I have been researching on the two and I must say they both have huge benefits. However its early to decide since who knows whats going to be around since I am done with college. I just like to play ahead so I do end up thousands of dollars fiancially in debt like so many people do out of college (that and I am cheap).
The best advice my dad gave me was to protect my credit at all costs ... since with good credit you can get anything, and without it you are sunk. That's still so true.
Get your diploma, watch your bucks in the meantime, and when you get settled in a good job you can really start enjoying the fruits of your work.
Good luck to you!
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01-08-2008, 03:11 PM
#19
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Your dad is cleary a very smart man. As of right now I have a credit card that I pay off full each month to help build my credit. I see people in college that have tons of loans and they pay the min of there credit cards each month and its just like that will come back to bit you one day. I am going to do everything in my power to graduate with good credit so I can hopefully one day once I have more money saved up have a car as nice as an RL or LS.
01-08-2008, 04:28 PM
#20
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Impressions are piling up, and I'm thinking the Lexus VR is worse than I thought.
I tried to make a BT call yesterday using VR, and 4 times in a row it interpreted a "5" as a "9" before it finally got it right. I said "five" every way I could before it finally heard it right.
Then today I was playing and asked it to set the temperature to 70 degrees. FIVE times in a row it insisted on setting it to 77 degrees. I stubbornly kept trying until it got it right, but I was almost ready to give up.
Now ... I have to say I have set destinations 4 or 5 times, using street numbers, and it's gotten them right every time. Maybe the Navigation module interprets numbers better than the BT or climate control units. And frankly, I don't use the VR to set cabin temperature anyway, but I DO use it to dial numbers.
MY 3 Acuras, OTOH, understood me almost without fail, and I didn't have to raise my voice, or speak in golden tones like Richard Burton, or do anything else unusual.
More evidence that you guys have the absolute primo VR system available in an automobile today.
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I tried to make a BT call yesterday using VR, and 4 times in a row it interpreted a "5" as a "9" before it finally got it right. I said "five" every way I could before it finally heard it right.
Then today I was playing and asked it to set the temperature to 70 degrees. FIVE times in a row it insisted on setting it to 77 degrees. I stubbornly kept trying until it got it right, but I was almost ready to give up.
Now ... I have to say I have set destinations 4 or 5 times, using street numbers, and it's gotten them right every time. Maybe the Navigation module interprets numbers better than the BT or climate control units. And frankly, I don't use the VR to set cabin temperature anyway, but I DO use it to dial numbers.
MY 3 Acuras, OTOH, understood me almost without fail, and I didn't have to raise my voice, or speak in golden tones like Richard Burton, or do anything else unusual.
More evidence that you guys have the absolute primo VR system available in an automobile today.
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01-08-2008, 04:57 PM
#23
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Gee - all those "pros" for what - a mere $20K more? Sure - the extra room would be nice if you needed it - I don't. I need AWD more.
I like this from the specs:
"18-in or 19-in tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 15,000 miles, depending on driving conditions. Please see your Lexus dealer for details and other information relating to tire selection."
LESS then 15K miles tire life - give me a break!
I like this from the specs:
"18-in or 19-in tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 15,000 miles, depending on driving conditions. Please see your Lexus dealer for details and other information relating to tire selection."
LESS then 15K miles tire life - give me a break!
01-08-2008, 05:31 PM
#24
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by AsianTL
Mike_TX,
Please give me your thought how the LS handles on and of exit (clover leave) V.S the RL.
Thanks,
Please give me your thought how the LS handles on and of exit (clover leave) V.S the RL.
Thanks,
For me, though, it's not really a problem, since the LS will take them as fast as I want it to.
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01-08-2008, 05:44 PM
#25
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Don Melcher
Gee - all those "pros" for what - a mere $20K more? Sure - the extra room would be nice if you needed it - I don't. I need AWD more.
I like this from the specs:
"18-in or 19-in tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 15,000 miles, depending on driving conditions. Please see your Lexus dealer for details and other information relating to tire selection."
LESS then 15K miles tire life - give me a break!
I like this from the specs:
"18-in or 19-in tires are expected to experience greater tire wear than conventional tires. Tire life may be substantially less than 15,000 miles, depending on driving conditions. Please see your Lexus dealer for details and other information relating to tire selection."
LESS then 15K miles tire life - give me a break!
In fact, I didn't attempt to go into all the things the LS has that the RL doesn't (rain-sensing wipers, xenon high beams, headlight washers, 16-way adjustable driver's seat and 12-way passenger - including lumbar for the driver [2-way] and passenger, rear seat B-pillar A/C vents, etc., etc.). But only you can decide if it's worth the money or not. Since the LS outsells the RL by a huge margin, a lot of people obviously think so!
As for the tire wear, I don't know what they're talking about. My car has the 18's and is fitted with Dunlop Sport Maxx tires, treadwear rated at 340. Folks on the Lexus forums with '07's are reporting excellent tire wear.
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01-09-2008, 03:58 PM
#26
Racer
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX
Impressions are piling up, and I'm thinking the Lexus VR is worse than I thought.
I tried to make a BT call yesterday using VR, and 4 times in a row it interpreted a "5" as a "9" before it finally got it right. I said "five" every way I could before it finally heard it right.
Then today I was playing and asked it to set the temperature to 70 degrees. FIVE times in a row it insisted on setting it to 77 degrees. I stubbornly kept trying until it got it right, but I was almost ready to give up.
Now ... I have to say I have set destinations 4 or 5 times, using street numbers, and it's gotten them right every time. Maybe the Navigation module interprets numbers better than the BT or climate control units. And frankly, I don't use the VR to set cabin temperature anyway, but I DO use it to dial numbers.
MY 3 Acuras, OTOH, understood me almost without fail, and I didn't have to raise my voice, or speak in golden tones like Richard Burton, or do anything else unusual.
More evidence that you guys have the absolute primo VR system available in an automobile today.
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I tried to make a BT call yesterday using VR, and 4 times in a row it interpreted a "5" as a "9" before it finally got it right. I said "five" every way I could before it finally heard it right.
Then today I was playing and asked it to set the temperature to 70 degrees. FIVE times in a row it insisted on setting it to 77 degrees. I stubbornly kept trying until it got it right, but I was almost ready to give up.
Now ... I have to say I have set destinations 4 or 5 times, using street numbers, and it's gotten them right every time. Maybe the Navigation module interprets numbers better than the BT or climate control units. And frankly, I don't use the VR to set cabin temperature anyway, but I DO use it to dial numbers.
MY 3 Acuras, OTOH, understood me almost without fail, and I didn't have to raise my voice, or speak in golden tones like Richard Burton, or do anything else unusual.
More evidence that you guys have the absolute primo VR system available in an automobile today.
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01-09-2008, 04:19 PM
#27
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by Mike_TX
Don, I don't think you can justify any luxury car solely on the basis of what it has or doesn't have, compared to another car. It's like flying first class - you still get there at the same time if you fly the cheap seats. There's more to the overall car than those things I've listed.
In fact, I didn't attempt to go into all the things the LS has that the RL doesn't (rain-sensing wipers, xenon high beams, headlight washers, 16-way adjustable driver's seat and 12-way passenger - including lumbar for the driver [2-way] and passenger, rear seat B-pillar A/C vents, etc., etc.). But only you can decide if it's worth the money or not. Since the LS outsells the RL by a huge margin, a lot of people obviously think so!
As for the tire wear, I don't know what they're talking about. My car has the 18's and is fitted with Dunlop Sport Maxx tires, treadwear rated at 340. Folks on the Lexus forums with '07's are reporting excellent tire wear.
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In fact, I didn't attempt to go into all the things the LS has that the RL doesn't (rain-sensing wipers, xenon high beams, headlight washers, 16-way adjustable driver's seat and 12-way passenger - including lumbar for the driver [2-way] and passenger, rear seat B-pillar A/C vents, etc., etc.). But only you can decide if it's worth the money or not. Since the LS outsells the RL by a huge margin, a lot of people obviously think so!
As for the tire wear, I don't know what they're talking about. My car has the 18's and is fitted with Dunlop Sport Maxx tires, treadwear rated at 340. Folks on the Lexus forums with '07's are reporting excellent tire wear.
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Why do people buy Ferraris over Corvettes when a Corvette can give you similar 0-60 times? Especially when from a content (read: gadgets) perspective, the Corvette may offer more.
When you're looking beyond just reliable basic transportation where a Civic or Corolla will do, car choices and what you're willing to spend becomes very subjective.
01-09-2008, 05:13 PM
#28
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Originally Posted by GoHawks
I agree Mike.
Why do people buy Ferraris over Corvettes when a Corvette can give you similar 0-60 times? Especially when from a content (read: gadgets) perspective, the Corvette may offer more.
When you're looking beyond just reliable basic transportation where a Civic or Corolla will do, car choices and what you're willing to spend becomes very subjective.
Why do people buy Ferraris over Corvettes when a Corvette can give you similar 0-60 times? Especially when from a content (read: gadgets) perspective, the Corvette may offer more.
When you're looking beyond just reliable basic transportation where a Civic or Corolla will do, car choices and what you're willing to spend becomes very subjective.
Yes - but in the end all it does IS get you from point A to point B - and if it does it in reasonable comfort and safety... what more do you need?
I never have been a fan of "floaty" rides - if I was - I'd drive a Citroen (they are like driving down the road sitting on your living room couch)
I think I can manage to figure out when to turn on the windshield wipers, close the doors and trunk myself, live without air conditioned seats, etc... and a lot better things to do with the extra $20K - like a nice vacation or two, or retire a few months earlier. It isn't that I can't afford it - I just think that kind of bucks for a car is frivolous no matter who makes it. While certainly some buyers think the LX is a great car, I think a lot of them don't think about it - they just buy it because it is just like a Rolex on wheels.
If it wasn't for the fact that I needed something with AWD (but refused to drive a SUV
), and wanted the advanced safety technology in a car is mostly driven by the person who is most important to me - my wife - I wouldn't be here. I'd would be over on the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry/Avalon BBS 
The RL remains to me, IMHO, the best value in a "sports sedan" today.
01-09-2008, 05:38 PM
#29
05 slate grey e500 AMG sp
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Originally Posted by gavine
I think the reverse-phase noise cancellation system in the RL is what helps make the VR work so well.
01-09-2008, 07:32 PM
#30
4th Gear
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my parents garage also houses both the RL and the LS... while the OP's "list" is factual, it hardly offers driving impressions...
i've driven the cars back to back (to back to back) and then some. night and day and totally uncomparable rides.
while the LS4's transmission is seriously world class, i detest the boaty feel and complete detachment from all movements in the Lexus. the RL, otoh, is much stiffer (relatively speaking of course; my daily driver is an s2000 w/ 11kg springs) with noticeable (and appreciated) body roll. while LS460 accelerates extremely quickly, RL scoots while transmitting visceral awareness.
i really could care less about functionality of the NAV/heated seats/electronic mumble jumble... but i do wish some one will come up w/ electronic software to dial ALL the power to the rear of the RL (like the LS) at all times
at the end of the year the RL will come into my possesion; out of the 2 cars, it's the only car i want to drive daily...
i've driven the cars back to back (to back to back) and then some. night and day and totally uncomparable rides.
while the LS4's transmission is seriously world class, i detest the boaty feel and complete detachment from all movements in the Lexus. the RL, otoh, is much stiffer (relatively speaking of course; my daily driver is an s2000 w/ 11kg springs) with noticeable (and appreciated) body roll. while LS460 accelerates extremely quickly, RL scoots while transmitting visceral awareness.
i really could care less about functionality of the NAV/heated seats/electronic mumble jumble... but i do wish some one will come up w/ electronic software to dial ALL the power to the rear of the RL (like the LS) at all times
at the end of the year the RL will come into my possesion; out of the 2 cars, it's the only car i want to drive daily...
01-09-2008, 08:04 PM
#31
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by Don Melcher
Corvette - now THERE'S a fine automobile!
I think I can manage to figure out when to turn on the windshield wipers, close the doors and trunk myself, live without air conditioned seats, etc... and a lot better things to do with the extra $20K - like a nice vacation or two, or retire a few months earlier. It isn't that I can't afford it - I just think that kind of bucks for a car is frivolous no matter who makes it. While certainly some buyers think the LX is a great car, I think a lot of them don't think about it - they just buy it because it is just like a Rolex on wheels.
If it wasn't for the fact that I needed something with AWD (but refused to drive a SUV ), and wanted the advanced safety technology in a car is mostly driven by the person who is most important to me - my wife - I wouldn't be here. I'd would be over on the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry/Avalon BBS The RL remains to me, IMHO, the best value in a "sports sedan" today.
I think I can manage to figure out when to turn on the windshield wipers, close the doors and trunk myself, live without air conditioned seats, etc... and a lot better things to do with the extra $20K - like a nice vacation or two, or retire a few months earlier. It isn't that I can't afford it - I just think that kind of bucks for a car is frivolous no matter who makes it. While certainly some buyers think the LX is a great car, I think a lot of them don't think about it - they just buy it because it is just like a Rolex on wheels.
If it wasn't for the fact that I needed something with AWD (but refused to drive a SUV
), and wanted the advanced safety technology in a car is mostly driven by the person who is most important to me - my wife - I wouldn't be here. I'd would be over on the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry/Avalon BBS The RL remains to me, IMHO, the best value in a "sports sedan" today.I'm sure many people look at an RL, TL, or any upper $20K -$40K car and say,
"I can buy a lot of maps for the cost of a navigation system"
"I don't need 'power' seats or mirrors"
"A 10-speaker audio system in a car is a waste"
"I hate leather"
and on and on.
People value different things. Given my current financial situation, I can't justify spending that much more for an LS, but I have no doubt that in a couple of years things might change.
Heck, 4 or 5 years ago I couldn't justify spending $40K+ for a car. Now look at what I drive.
01-09-2008, 09:52 PM
#32
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by Don Melcher
Corvette - now THERE'S a fine automobile!
Yes - but in the end all it does IS get you from point A to point B - and if it does it in reasonable comfort and safety... what more do you need?
I never have been a fan of "floaty" rides - if I was - I'd drive a Citroen (they are like driving down the road sitting on your living room couch)
I think I can manage to figure out when to turn on the windshield wipers, close the doors and trunk myself, live without air conditioned seats, etc... and a lot better things to do with the extra $20K - like a nice vacation or two, or retire a few months earlier. It isn't that I can't afford it - I just think that kind of bucks for a car is frivolous no matter who makes it. While certainly some buyers think the LX is a great car, I think a lot of them don't think about it - they just buy it because it is just like a Rolex on wheels.
If it wasn't for the fact that I needed something with AWD (but refused to drive a SUV ), and wanted the advanced safety technology in a car is mostly driven by the person who is most important to me - my wife - I wouldn't be here. I'd would be over on the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry/Avalon BBS The RL remains to me, IMHO, the best value in a "sports sedan" today.
Yes - but in the end all it does IS get you from point A to point B - and if it does it in reasonable comfort and safety... what more do you need?
I never have been a fan of "floaty" rides - if I was - I'd drive a Citroen (they are like driving down the road sitting on your living room couch)
I think I can manage to figure out when to turn on the windshield wipers, close the doors and trunk myself, live without air conditioned seats, etc... and a lot better things to do with the extra $20K - like a nice vacation or two, or retire a few months earlier. It isn't that I can't afford it - I just think that kind of bucks for a car is frivolous no matter who makes it. While certainly some buyers think the LX is a great car, I think a lot of them don't think about it - they just buy it because it is just like a Rolex on wheels.
If it wasn't for the fact that I needed something with AWD (but refused to drive a SUV
), and wanted the advanced safety technology in a car is mostly driven by the person who is most important to me - my wife - I wouldn't be here. I'd would be over on the Honda Accord or Toyota Camry/Avalon BBS The RL remains to me, IMHO, the best value in a "sports sedan" today.Look, everything is subjective. I don't know what you consider a "floaty" ride. I guess you could say my new LS "floats" over bumps and ripples, and I think that's the greatest thing since sliced beer. I have no use for bumps that jar my teeth and beat rattles into my car. But to me, a floaty ride is one where the car "porpoises" or bobs up and down after going over a dip or bump, or yaws back and forth or wallows like a whale in corners. IOW, moves around like a boat in the water. I can't handle that any better than you can.
But unless you have driven an '07 or '08 SWB LS, you're not qualified to call it floaty. If you HAVE driven one, and you still think it's floaty, then we'll just have to agree our definitions of floaty are different.
But I've decided I don't have to accept a car with a harsh suspension, and I'm enjoying my LS's ability to absorb jolts and jitters and bangs and bumps without transmitting them to my spinal column. But since you don't demand much from your cars, I guess a substandard suspension system is just something else you'll easily forgive.
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01-09-2008, 09:55 PM
#33
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ssim3
The MDX lacks the noise cancellation, but I can't tell a difference in the VR from the RL.
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01-09-2008, 10:02 PM
#34
CLS 6MT Navi
I tend to agree with those saying the $70k LS is not their thing, but I'll give it this; Lexi are popular, so resale will be better than the Acura, and service is supposedly tops, and reliabilty should be very good, but maybe not as good as they used to be.
but, the shallow me says hey, if I'm gonna spend $70k on a car I want something more dramatic, like a BMW 6 coupe, or a MB, (even tho they're gonna break down more).
after all, this is an Acura site, and most Acura drivers do not buy $70k cars unless they bought a new NSX.
but, the shallow me says hey, if I'm gonna spend $70k on a car I want something more dramatic, like a BMW 6 coupe, or a MB, (even tho they're gonna break down more).
after all, this is an Acura site, and most Acura drivers do not buy $70k cars unless they bought a new NSX.
01-09-2008, 10:07 PM
#35
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by 123456SPEED
I tend to agree with those saying the $70k LS is not their thing, but I'll give it this; Lexi are popular, so resale will be better than the Acura, and service is supposedly tops, and reliabilty should be very good, but maybe not as good as they used to be.
but, the shallow me says hey, if I'm gonna spend $70k on a car I want something more dramatic, like a BMW 6 coupe, or a MB, (even tho they're gonna break down more).
after all, this is an Acura site, and most Acura drivers do not buy $70k cars unless they bought a new NSX.
but, the shallow me says hey, if I'm gonna spend $70k on a car I want something more dramatic, like a BMW 6 coupe, or a MB, (even tho they're gonna break down more).
after all, this is an Acura site, and most Acura drivers do not buy $70k cars unless they bought a new NSX.
Trust me, if I had the disposable income, I would have no problem buy an LS.
01-10-2008, 12:38 AM
#36
4th Gear
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Originally Posted by Mike_TX
But to me, a floaty ride is one where the car "porpoises" or bobs up and down after going over a dip or bump, or yaws back and forth or wallows like a whale in corners.
again, the new LS4's amazing car. from the absolute quietness on the road to the ability of the (however many speed auto) tranny to execute PERFECT shifts at WOT to the superb interior treatment (rear LED reading lights? hello! love it!).
the thing is... as a passenger, i sometimes get car sick; never as a driver. except one time, after a short jaunt in the Lexus, i got nauseous...
mebbe it was psycho-somatic, most likely not. carry on. enjoy your ride. you paid enough for it.
btw, if anyone has a solution to this LS question of my regarding interior trim, PLEASE HELP: http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328615
01-10-2008, 02:05 PM
#38
AcurAdmirer
Thread Starter
FWIW, I just filled the (22.2 gal.) tank for the first time today. I got 18.8 mpg, which I thought was very good for a first tank.
My driving has been almost all in-town stuff, with only about a half-hour of freeway driving.
I noticed while on the freeway, though, that at 70mph the tach was showing only about 1700 rpm, so that bodes well for highway mileage.
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My driving has been almost all in-town stuff, with only about a half-hour of freeway driving.
I noticed while on the freeway, though, that at 70mph the tach was showing only about 1700 rpm, so that bodes well for highway mileage.
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01-12-2008, 05:52 AM
#39
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Mike, your thread comparing the LS vs. RL and comments from various forum members are most interesting to me. Like you, I now own a Lexus. I first owned the LS and now the ES350. In many ways, I think that the ES and RL’s models are more comparable than the LS and RL.
I have long been a satisfied owner and supporter of the Acura RL brand. My former RL’s were superior in many ways to other luxury brands I have owned. However, I believe that today’s RL does not match up well with either the Lexus V8 LS or the V6 ES. In my subjective opinion, the RL offers few attributes superior to either the ES or the LS. Nevertheless, I do believe that those few RL features are extremely important.
The most significant difference between the two brands is the handling of the RL with its SH-AWD. The RL handling is absolutely superior to the LS rear wheel or ES front wheel drive. The RL provides the driver with a much superior tactile and mechanical control over winding roads or sharp curves.
Secondly, the voice recognition system of the RL works. The Lexus system is at best, a hit or miss proposition. Mine seldom recognizes my vocal input even though I carefully enunciate whole words, letters or numbers. Then too, the navigation system does not allow for driver input while the car is in motion.
The interior lighting of the RL is better. One can see properly inside the RL at night with the interior lights on. The interior lighting of the Lexus is made by LED’s. Illumination is extremely poor. In fact, it is impossible for me to see certain controls at night such as the three button home-link garage opener located above the rear view mirror.
For every other creature comfort feature or mechanical precision factor, I find the both the LS and ES outclass the RL. A pleasant benefit owning the ES with its V6 engine (similar to the RL and not the LS with its V8), is that the ES delivers for me an average of 22mpg in the city and 31mpg on the highway. Furthermore, I use 87 octane gasoline which has provided the same performance characteristics as 91 octane recommended by Lexus.
Styling is subjective. Fit and Finish is observable. Physical comfort is a matter of an individual’s size. Cost is an absolute. I find for me, the Lexus brand wins on the first three of these factors. The ES costs less than the RL and the LS much more than the RL.
Would I recommend the RL over the LS? If money is a consideration, yes. I think the RL is a great choice. Do I think the RL is a better overall value than the ES? No.
A cost comparison between the ES, RL and LS (equipped with similar features) greatly varies. Dollar for dollar the RL does not compete well with the ES. But, with its features, I consider it a better buy than the LS.
Mike, I hope you truly have great success and enjoyment with your LS. Likewise, I know that RL owners will have years of wonderful experience with their RL’s. For me, the ES is a better fit.
I have long been a satisfied owner and supporter of the Acura RL brand. My former RL’s were superior in many ways to other luxury brands I have owned. However, I believe that today’s RL does not match up well with either the Lexus V8 LS or the V6 ES. In my subjective opinion, the RL offers few attributes superior to either the ES or the LS. Nevertheless, I do believe that those few RL features are extremely important.
The most significant difference between the two brands is the handling of the RL with its SH-AWD. The RL handling is absolutely superior to the LS rear wheel or ES front wheel drive. The RL provides the driver with a much superior tactile and mechanical control over winding roads or sharp curves.
Secondly, the voice recognition system of the RL works. The Lexus system is at best, a hit or miss proposition. Mine seldom recognizes my vocal input even though I carefully enunciate whole words, letters or numbers. Then too, the navigation system does not allow for driver input while the car is in motion.
The interior lighting of the RL is better. One can see properly inside the RL at night with the interior lights on. The interior lighting of the Lexus is made by LED’s. Illumination is extremely poor. In fact, it is impossible for me to see certain controls at night such as the three button home-link garage opener located above the rear view mirror.
For every other creature comfort feature or mechanical precision factor, I find the both the LS and ES outclass the RL. A pleasant benefit owning the ES with its V6 engine (similar to the RL and not the LS with its V8), is that the ES delivers for me an average of 22mpg in the city and 31mpg on the highway. Furthermore, I use 87 octane gasoline which has provided the same performance characteristics as 91 octane recommended by Lexus.
Styling is subjective. Fit and Finish is observable. Physical comfort is a matter of an individual’s size. Cost is an absolute. I find for me, the Lexus brand wins on the first three of these factors. The ES costs less than the RL and the LS much more than the RL.
Would I recommend the RL over the LS? If money is a consideration, yes. I think the RL is a great choice. Do I think the RL is a better overall value than the ES? No.
A cost comparison between the ES, RL and LS (equipped with similar features) greatly varies. Dollar for dollar the RL does not compete well with the ES. But, with its features, I consider it a better buy than the LS.
Mike, I hope you truly have great success and enjoyment with your LS. Likewise, I know that RL owners will have years of wonderful experience with their RL’s. For me, the ES is a better fit.
01-12-2008, 01:49 PM
#40
Three Wheelin'
Personally, I think the RL is more comparable to the Lexus GS than the ES. The fact that the ES is FWD would take it out of the comparison for me. Personally, I think that between RWD, AWD, and FWD, the FWD option is the LEAST luxury or performance like. Of course, that is my opinion. Unfortunately, it seems that most luxury car buyers have no idea what drive layout they have, nor do they care. Of course the ES is going to cost less than an RL, it has the cheapest drive layout.