aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Alright, here is your chance before we pull the final trigger on the design.

Basically there are two ways to do this.


1. We'll call this the ATLP J-Pipe setup. We can keep it similar to the way it's setup from the factory, upgrading only the J-Pipe and it would be something very similar to the ATLP setup that is available for the TL.

Here is a picture of the TL Stock J-Pipe (Brown), compared to the higher flowing ATLP J-Pipe (Silver). The RL has a very similar J-Pipe, and we can work out a similar product for it.

Here you can see how the factory layout of the RL exhaust is. We would only be upgrading part number 6.


2. Then, we will call this the ATLP True Dual setup. This is a bit more extensive of a route, and which will upgrade the J-pipe section into a true-dual setup.
Here, I've altered a visual representation to how we would convert the setup into a true-dual. You can see the J-Pipe no longer forms into one collector, but rather retains the same pipe route to the mid-pipe flange. It will still be a bolt on/off unit, no fabrication needed on your end.



Now, why am I showing you all this? Both have their potential ups and downs.

ATLP J-Pipe Setup -

This setup would be an increase over the factory pipe, simply due to a free flowing design. It would allow you to keep the factory 3rd catalytic converter. But it will still have areas of restriction. Where the 2 primary pipes merge, the 3rd catalytic converter, and back into where the collector splits back into two, and a slight bit through the resonators.

ATLP True Dual Setup -

Greater potential. Much less resistance as less cross-over sections are present. Straight from the factory, the RL looks like it's already asking for a true dual exhaust system, but seems like Acura decided to go with the more cost efficient route by utilizing the same cat/j-pipe design that was used for the TL, Ridgeline, Accord, etc. Probably to save costs in design and manufacturing.

We would keep the pipe diameter the same as stock, retaining low end power, but removing the 3rd cat and resonator, and the cross over sections will most likely yields the gains we are looking for. Another benefit will be that it should sound pretty neat especially with the stock exhaust, while not being loud or bassy. Sporty, would be the word I assume :thumbup:.

Besides being a bit pricier, the only downside I'd say would be that some people may be sensitive to the removal of the 3rd cat.(necessary due to the design) Removing the 3rd cat will not trigger any CEL lights, as there are no sensors there. It's also been reported that you will still pass smog without a third cat, nor will the ECU throw any codes.

But, there is one last option. We can incorporate high flow cats into this setup, but it would bump the price up a good amount.

Anyway, in my opinion, I'd love to go with the True-Dual setup. As you can see by the RL's diagram, it's just asking for a true-dual since almost 80% of the exhaust routing is already designed that way. It's just unnecessary restriction that the factory decided to use pre-existing parts to complete the exhaust. I bet it also would work out to produce a nice tone without the need for a whole exhaust system!

But, that doesn't mean the ATLP J-Pipe route won't get gains either.

Manufacturing both isn't likely at the moment, simply because this will be a one time batch.

Anyway, enough blabbering. Let's discuss, and get this going!

Thanks for your time guys,

Mike.

fatty

going with the true dual complete setup, wont it make our car run richer/or not?? Bad for the engine in long run without a tune?

Blazing GT

Ok, I'm not very knowledgeable on vehcile's engine upgrades, but what kind of gains are we looking at? Like fatty said, would it be bad for the engine without a tune.

Also today I was thinking what if Anzbo made an ATLP Exhaust for the RL. that would be sweet.

But I am very interested in the ATLP true dual setup

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

I would opt for either mod. Both have advantages and disadvantages that I can see. True dual having some loss at the low end and hopefully will pickup in the mid as we know the the top end will be better. The dual also seems simpler to design and make. Yes?

Most cars can adjust their fuel trim to a degree. But, as I will be adding others mods such as CAI, TBS as many other have I am curious how much the stock ECU will adjust. Perhaps that is where the Jet computer comes into play and apparently they can adjust for mods.

Add my name to the list. The sooner the better.

Blazing GT

How do you reset the ECU after installing performance mods?
Should you do it with every mod you install?

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Generally pull the fuse for the ECU or disconnect the battery. I always do this after each mod.

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Theoretically, yes. But our cars, including the RL is equipped with a wideband sensor, so it's has the ability to read anything from stoich, to full rich, and full lean. The ECU isn't limited to one set ratio, and does have the ability to adjust. Keep in mind, this is not a large increase in power, as forced induction, where the ECU may be limited to a certain amount of variation from it's preset maps.

It shouldn't be a worry, especially that we haven't had any reported engine problems for the last year as people have been running these with thousands of miles.

As with the True dual, I'm aiming at keeping it at a minimum, by incorporating a X-pipe design in there. That will help with exhaust scavenging at low rpms.

dubz ASPEC

how much for the true dual setup?

fredren

i don't mean to be the only one but i am more interested in the atlp j-pipe rather than the true dual as i rarely drive my car above 3-4k rpm,so i am more interested in low-end torque factor

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

True as this car needs as much low end as it can get. But once on the highway it stays in the mid range and above. Where's the poll?

neuronbob

I don't want to lose low-end torque, the relative lack of which is already an issue in this car. In addition, I already have a free-flowing exhaust, which probably reduces the torque a little already. I therefore vote for the J-Pipe.

Just don't start talking to me about the "past associations" of the true dual setup, though!

Thanks for the thorough explanation, aznbo!

Edit: Poll added. Hope you don't mind, aznbo.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

I voted J-Pipe as well. It is a proven mod for TL owners and should offer some noticeable improvements for the RL as well.
If you can have mine here by Tuesday that would be great.
Seriously, thanks, as getting companies to pay attention to a low volume car is difficult. I look forward to the end product.

abusive

I vote for the j-pipe as well. I think a lot of us will be happier improving the low-end over the high-end. I don't think the J-pipe will cause any high-end "loss", just not substantial gains over the current baseline.

Further, I'm 100% confident that the gains seen on the TL will be realized on the RL - the motors are basically the same design.

On a side note, no one has answered me: what about the pre-cat deletes? Have they been tried on the RL? If not, where can I get some to test out? Doesn't make sense that they work on all other "J" motors and not the RL's..

neuronbob

Just to remind about the gains on the TL with the J-pipe..... 7 hp, 13 lb-ft torque. $399 on the TL, to which it bolts on easily. This is a no-brainer mod.

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/atlp-j-pipe-dyno-633717/

Oh yeah! Let's do this!

abusive

pre-cat deletes, please?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Pre-cat delets have not been tried on the RL's. I'm sure it should be a close fit, we are looking into them soon.

Thanks for the poll Bob!

abusive

Are there any fittment issues with the pre-cat deletes on the other "J" engines which are advertised as being compatible? If there are no issues, I'll pick up a set and try them out on my RL.

Ballinger

I voted for the J-Pipe, since that enables one to keep the 3rd Cat in place (for clean compliance with smog testing) and because the low-end torque is important to protect.

Mike, do you have a cost estimate for them yet?

supergreen

Any reason why we can't do both?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

We barely have enough interest for one part...

Ballinger

Yeah well, powdercoat them with a Hello Kitty logo and see what happens!

Are there any good youtube/sound files for the TL's done with your J-pipe for that car?

supergreen

If that's the case, you'll definitely see more interest if you keep it simple and only replace the j-pipe.
...and maybe offer an additional pipe to delete the cat for the true enthusiasts.

Can I vote once for each??

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Interesting. Almost a even split with 5 for the J and 6 for the Dual setup. I'm game either way. I think a price for each would sway some minds. Any estimates?

neuronbob

Indeed, the split is interesting. I would definitely not go for the dual pipe. This car needs as much low-end torque as it can get, and the dual system would likely lose some.

fan_888

AZNBO187 do you also have any plan to make the exhaust set up?
Just wondering.....

Blazing GT

+1

Roy Cya

+1 for the J-pipe as well, as I also have the free flow exhaust and would not like to sacrifice low end torque any more than I have so far...

Aznbo, how are those hearders coming??? Any "dry fits"??

Talk to me baby!

Later,

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

An x-pipe for the dual setup will really help in scavenging and have shown real benefits for V8s including low end. Not sure the impact of a 6 though. I think pricing would play a role in voting. Much of a difference price wise?

abusive

What's also interesting is that there are more votes than people on "the list".. It seems that most of the postings support the j-pipe...

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Pricing for the true duals would definitely be more, as it involved more material, and also a crossover section. It seems like most people here are favoring the J-Pipe section, which is what we will probably work on, but the polls seem to speak otherwise? Please chime in if you have voted!

IamLegend

Voted : J-Pipe
And already on the list...

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

J-pipe and put me on the list. Any chance the production version will be available in a month or so? I would like to dyno in November. I'm also fairly local.

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

Seems the J-pipe is the favorite based on the posts. Perhaps there is some trolling going on with the poll.

MaxAlexand

Fine . . . I'll quit trolling.

I'm just not sold that a ~$400 J-pipe replacement will yield an significant SOTP improvement.

7hp/13tq on the TL - can I assume that this is an average of multiple cars dyno results on otherwise unmodded cars?

This is why I voted for True-dual.

Roy Cya

Max,

with that said, what do you foresee the dual setup netting you (hp/tq)?? What do you believe is realistic or attainable?? I'm sure the latter could and should be answered by others as well...

Just curious...

Thx,

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

My comment above was not intended to offend you or others, but to get some members to post on their choice and why, as the list is not near the total amount of votes above. Glad you posted and perhaps others will chime in as well.

As stated I could go either way on this but really without a product to dyno a comparison between the two is difficult.
The RL has very little torque in it's powerband until you hit 5k so it would be nice to be able to dyno both setups which would allow us to make an informed decision. The J-pipe is proven, the true dual is not-yet. Crossovers(x-pipes,etc) show different benefits on cars depending on a number of factors such as placement, diameter, etc. Not sure if the vendor is willing to experiment on various x-pipe options to see which yields the highest and most balanced approach.

MaxAlexand

Hey 470hp - my bad. Typical smart-ass comment (mine) misinterpreted. No offense taken. Sorry.

I've been actively following this thread in the hopes of finding a little more GO for the RL.

My previous experience with small-block chevy LT1 - was that replacing cast iron manifolds with shorty headers makes almost no diff. Replacing an ugly piece with a smother prettier piece of the same design should provide limited gains. The J-pipe has a larger radius for the "J", but appears to be similar in restriction to stock.

I understand that the J-pipe replacement has yielded proven (?) results in the TL, I guess I was hoping for some dyno slips to quantify that assertion.



BTW: Thanks to AZnbo for getting this started!

470hpGS400

iTrader: (1)

I hear you, I'm just glad that options are coming out for this car and am waiting patiently.

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Guys, the spread is still 50/50. =)

Theoretically, the true-dual setup should give a better gain, simply due to the design of the factory exhaust. They are going from 2 runners, into one, and then back into two. Releasing that restriction and just staying with a proper sized tube would/should be very beneficial. But then again, it comes down again to what you guys are looking for. If those extra few hp/tq numbers don't justify spending much more in comparison to the J-Pipe, or visa versa..

Anyway, Max, here are the dyno graphs for the J-Pipe on the TL (similar 3.2 engine).

death

I've driven a 3rd gen TL-S before and after the J-pipe + 3rd cat delete was performed. There is a big difference and definitely noticeable gains made.

I'm actually on the fence about either picking up a used RL or an 07/08 TL-S 6 speed.