037

As the "all inclusive" title states, Honda has finally brought some new technology to the table.

Reference links are on the bottom of the long winded post:

Honda Finally Adds Direct Injection to Its V6 and Four-Cylinder Engines
November 29, 2011 at 8:00pm by Michael Austin

Despite Honda’s reputation for building great engines, the Japanese automaker has been slow to adopt direct injection (DI). The technology is now commonplace in all segments of the market, and allows for higher compression ratios and therefore improved efficiency. At an event surrounding the Tokyo auto show, Honda has told us that it is finally ready to add this feature to its engines. Besides DI, the engines also will feature a stop/start system.

At the top of the line is a redesigned 3.5-liter V-6, which features cylinder shutdown and a two-stage oil pump. With at least 308 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque, this engine delivers more power than Honda’s existing 3.7-liter engine and should yield a fuel-economy improvement of about 10 percent.



Another highlight of the lineup is a new 1.6-liter turbo-diesel, which is meant to replace the current 2.2-liter oil-burner found in markets outside of the United State. It’s claimed to be as light as a gasoline engine; the all-aluminum design features an open-deck block, which shaves pounds but is less stiff than the closed-deck design normally seen on diesel engines. Still, Honda claims the weight savings come without any long-term reliability concerns, thanks to new high-strength aluminum alloys, a stiff head design, and optimized cooling. Output figures of 118 hp and 221 lb-ft of torque are impressive for the downsized displacement. Alas, Honda executives are silent on whether or not we’ll ever see this engine in North America.

We also saw a 2.4-liter inline-4 that makes at least 181 hp and 177 lb-ft of torque. Compared to the current, port-injected 2.4-liter four in the new CR-V, those numbers represent a drop of 4 hp but an increase of 14 lb-ft; the differences are negligible enough, however, that we’d expect similar performance with better fuel economy. The outputs of Honda’s DI-equipped 1.8-liter and 1.5-liter fours are likewise similar to their current port-injection equivalents.



You Can’t Spell Continuously Variable Transmission Without Three of the Letters in “Honda”

Honda also announced a new series of continuously variable transmissions that supposedly reduce the annoyances we expect of this type of gearbox. The new CVTs—one is intended for mid-size and compact cars, the other for Japanese-market microcars—promise quicker response to throttle inputs, which should mean smoother acceleration and less of the irritating rubber-band feeling that occurs when the engine revs climb before there’s any noticeable change in speed. It’s a story of incremental gains here, made mostly through a wider belt (30 millimeters versus the current Honda CVT’s 24 mm) that reduces surface pressure, redesigned grooves in the pulley that better retain transmission fluid, and more precise control of the hydraulic pump. The ratio spread also is increased for better fuel economy.

When exactly we’ll see these engines and transmissions in showrooms hasn’t been announced, but we expect them to start entering the lineup sometime in the next two years. In typical fashion, Honda won’t make any claims about actual efficiency numbers or performance relative to its competitors, but we suspect that these updated powertrains will burnish Honda’s engine-building reputation and put its cars near the top of the fuel-economy heap.

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Acura’s Next SH-AWD System Will Power the Rear Wheels with Electric Motors
November 29, 2011 at 8:01pm by Michael Austin

Prior to the Tokyo auto show, Honda showed us a number of its upcoming technologies (including its new direct-injection engines), and one of the most promising is Electric SH-AWD. To review, SH-AWD stands for Super Handling All-Wheel Drive and, on current Acura products that bear the label, it signifies a four-wheel-drive powertrain that can route engine torque to either of the rear wheels to improve cornering.

Electric SH-AWD operates on a similar principle, and will be found on at least one upcoming Acura in the near future (pay no mind to the fact that the demonstration vehicle pictured here is an Accord). Instead of sending a driveshaft to the rear wheels and proportioning the power via clutches in a differential, the rear wheels simply use two electric motors. It’s a deceptively simple idea, and one that’s popped up in one form or another from various automakers (the Porsche 918 Spyder and RSR concepts feature something similar, for example). We’d have thought of it ourselves but were too busy looking for Asimo, Honda’s walking robot. He never showed.

The rear electric motors are only part of an overall hybrid powertrain concept. Up front is the latest development of Honda’s 3.5-liter V-6, now with direct injection and an output of at least 308 hp and 266 lb-ft of torque. The engine is mated to a Honda-built seven-speed dual-clutch transmission with a 40-hp DC electric motor integrated into the housing. Unlike Honda’s current IMA hybrid system, this new setup allows the engine to decouple from the electric motor. The benefit is that, during electric regeneration, all of the energy can flow through the motor (acting as a generator) into the batteries; no energy is used to spin the gasoline engine. Similarly, no battery power is wasted spinning the engine during EV-mode stints, which currently is the case with Honda’s hybrids. Interestingly, EV mode actually uses the rear motors to propel the car, which brings us back to SH-AWD.

Connected to each rear wheel is a 27-hp DC motor, either of which can deliver torque to its respective wheel or create drag through electric regeneration. The system works just like a mechanical torque-vectoring system but with much less hardware and, incidentally, less weight. When the car enters a corner, the system will send power to the outside rear wheel and drag on the inside rear wheel. In this scenario, the dragging motor can send electricity directly to the assisting motor in real time. As the car progresses through the corner, the inside rear motor will switch to electric assist to provide optimum traction. And if the lithium-ion batteries are depleted, the electric motor in the front of the car can act as a generator to make sure the SH-AWD system still operates.

With this system, Honda claims V-8 levels of acceleration and four-cylinder levels of fuel economy, without providing any specific numbers. Before you go adding up all the horsepower figures, remember that electric motors make most of their power at low speed, so the total system output is somewhere above the gasoline motor’s 308 horsepower, but we’re not sure how much higher. Both the power and economy claims might be a little ambitious. Still, we’re glad to see Honda taking a new approach to hybrids, especially one focused on performance as much as efficiency.


http://blog.caranddriver.com/honda-f...inder-engines/

http://blog.caranddriver.com/acuras-...ectric-motors/

Maybe Acura can give me an excuse to jump back in a few

CadiGTi

Thanks for posting.....very encouraging and long overdue great news......I would assume the new V6 and upgraded SH-AWD will go into the 2013 RL and if Honda is real smart, will bring the diesel to the US for Honda and some Acura applications. Honda really needs a huge shot in the arm.....

dwboston

Very promising. They needed to do something to reduce the weight of the SH-AWD system. I'd wait until the 2014 RL just to be safe.

EL19

iTrader: (4)

Very promising news!

HEAVY_RL

iTrader: (1)

Cool info indeed

Professor

Thanks for the info! I hope that cylinder tech shut down works in the first year without major bugs. I remember Caddy/GM tried to do this in the '80's and it was crap.

oo7spy

!!!!

tisucka

Lets hope they don't introduce the CVT into the Acura line of cars. I'm perfectly fine having it in the Honda line. Or having it as an option. They should do it how Nissan/Infiniti have it, Nissan has the CVT's and Infiniti's don't.

CVT's are just very boring transmissions. I just bought an RL, replacing my Maxima which had a CVT, and let me say it feels nice to feel a real transmission again.

EL19

iTrader: (4)

Yea CVT blows nuts

oo7spy

^ Intended for mid-size to compact cars. Civic, Fit, EL, possibly RSX. I wouldn't consider TSX, TL, or RL mid-size anymore.

TonyCD

Honda is already using cylinder shutdown on V6 Accords in this country, so they should have the bugs worked out of it.

rlx015

Thanks for sharing - good stuff to know...

cylinders shutting down to preserve fuel (economy mode) whatever - for some reason I just HATE these things being built into the cars.

If you made V6 - it should run as a V6 (period). Why get V6 and suffer on power - yes, I take it power will be there on the press of the pedal but the whole idea is just ... I dunno - maybe I am too conservative in this matter

kssod

New Infiniti JX will have a CVT, with "engineered" shift points. Lets hope there is some RL info ASAP, just put new tires on the 06 RL, soldier on thru the winter, and hope that Acura hits one out of the park with a new RL.

At the Tokyo show Honda execs admit that their cars are boring

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/h...130-1o5ud.html

BDoggPrelude

Here's another article on these upcoming technologies. The RL seems to be the best candidate for all of this IMO.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/acura-to...speed-dct.html

sleepinxlionhart

Awesome news! Really looking forward to this new hybrid drivetrain.

Benush

Some months ago I was anxious to see more about the possibility of the hybrid RL and then the news this week of a Direct Injection V-6 and the Electronic SH-AWD had me excited (until I did a cost projection)
If you figure the MSRP of the loaded RL is $57K and then add a fancy new engine, the Hybrid option and the Electric SH-AWD I peg the cost at somewhere north of $68K.

i started thinking that buyers of the NSX might be willing to shell out $10k to $15K extra for those goodies but not so certain about RL drivers.
then............

I read this

http://www.insideline.com/honda/hond...auto-show.html

It mentions the NSX but no where does it say that the RL is a candidate.

That got me thinking (a dangerous thing a best), Acura is quite good at the trickle down concept. Putting bigger-faster-better in the most expensive vehicles and then seeing how well they are accepted before passing the technology (and cost) on to the next level. And then they put the fancy stuff in everything vehicle (as an option package)

My hunch is that the 2013 RL will get a new higher efficiency engine (possibly the Direct injection but I don't think so))and body restyling and not much more and that the hybrid will see time first in the NSX. A bonus to those willing to pay the extra for the NSX. I also think that the new electric SH-AWD will be in the NSX first. Reasoning is that since it is measurably lighter, the NSX will benefit more from the better handling. Why ignore the RL? Acura owners have bought a 2006 styled RL for 6 years and not screamed loud enough to get Acura to make the changes requested. If I owned Acura, why would I put huge amounts of R&D and big bucks into something that people are still buying? People are clamoring for the next NSX and if you look at the dealer sites (especially CPO vehicles), the TL is good enough for most people. Why pay extra for a vehicle with the same engine that gets poorer gas mileage, but RL owners still do it. I keep looking at the 2010 CPO dealer returns that have less than 25,000 miles (a few less than 10,000 miles) listed for $42K and a month later going out the door for $37K to 38K and wonder if it would be a good time to get back in to one. But I think that the RL demographic is fading from Acura's vision.

Next..
The collection of stories talk about Honda/Acura working to get ALL the vehicles to a better MPG. MPG is a selling point in a TL but not the RL. That tells me that the TL will be the direct injection/hybrid recipient probably by 2015 and yes, the phase out of the RL.

Will there be a vehicle between the NSX and the TL? I doubt it.

With that said, IF the 2013 RL has the Direct Inject engine coupled with the hybrid and the Electric SH-AWD even if the only way to get all those goodies is with the CBMS and laser cruise, then I will strongly consider buying it, though my guess is the MSRP will be north of 65K (with a realistic out the door price of $59K).

Could I be wrong? I am usually wrong on days that end in "Y", so yes, but unless Acura sees the market that Cadillac saw and starts designing products for that market, I think the RL demographic has been erased from the future.

037

as much as Technology costs, I don't think Acura can afford to raise the price that much.

I would say no matter what tech they put in their price will remain about the same as that of Infiniti M37x. Price them side by side, they are almost the same.

kssod

hyundai sells 3 cars with DI for under 25k. Honda sales down, Hyundai up. That said, the RL is so good, but not outstanding that I chose to keep my 06, and play the waiting game as opposed to spending 65k for a 5 or A6. After driving the competition several times, my car advisor (son) and I would get back in the RL and comment on how although not the fastest it is an amazingly complete package. The M is very nice but seems so much bigger from behind the wheel than the RL, and the tranny was not nearly as smooth.

mg7726

i'm willing to wait for the new dual clutch and e-shawd...only thing that scares me is the cosmetics.

Pan0k

My RL is not due until 2017.

Benush

Just got this emailed to me and it says I am wrong. Which is a good thing!

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...al-clutch.html

getakey

wow - hope your are right, er, wrong, ah, well whichever makes it into the RL

037

they might pull a fast one and dump it into a TL for immediate sales rush vs putting it in the RL and watching a trickle. This might be me just hoping for a cheaper entry into e-sh-awd and DSG...

I got 2-3 years before I'm bored again so we'll see what the future brings.

neuronbob

We've been discussing this in Automotive News. I will say that I personally believe the RL is the model introduced in 2012 that will have this stuff. The RL's primary mission in life is to be the show horse of new tech that eventually makes it to other Acuras, then Hondas.

If the next RL has this, and also has a sporty demeanor or option, that will likely be my next car. We'll see.

vhdoshi

I'm glad the new Honda engines will have DI (Direct Injection).

But one thing I don't understand is why doesn't Honda make and use DOHC (Dual Overhead Cam) engines ?? The J35 and J37 are both SOHC (single overhead cam).

Honda would get a lot more horsepower out of its engines if they were DOHC.

wstr75

We owned a Lexus 400h AWD and put 69K miles on it before the transaxle destructed at 5 mph while entering a hospital parking lot. Strange, eh? At any rate, we have experience with a relatively high performance hybrid vehicle and, in my opinion, Honda/Acura's new RL concept is the ticket. By having the rear wheels powered by electric motors and the primary braking also being the rear wheel generators, you get nearly all of the advantages accorded a hybrid vehicle at a relatively low weight investment compared to a Lexus AWD vehicle. I'm looking forward to owning this new Acura SH-AWD sedan. My hope is the trunk will be a bit bigger so as to be able to accomodate four sets of golf clubs.
Bill in NC

Professor

^ But why are they so stuck on having power to the front wheels? I understand the advantages up North, but can't they just run a drive shaft to the rear wheels and that be it? Maybe it has to do with the engine orientation. don't know.

And I dare to think how much Acura will charge for replacement electric motors. Already with electric power steering, electric fuel pump and soon electric brakes and oil pump, you'll have a $65,000 golf cart.

kssod

I worry about SH-AWD losing its efficiency and all weather reliability. The current system is a beast in the snow. I certainly would like the increased power of the electric motors and the decrease weight. Hopefully it will have a little rear wheel bias for a little lighter steering feel, just don't ruin the bad weather security the current system excels at.