2008 Acura Rl
08-08-2006, 11:16 AM
#2
Three Wheelin'
I think they will put whatever engine goes into the upcoming MDX into the RL. We should find out September 1.
08-08-2006, 11:42 AM
#4
Three Wheelin'
At this point, I don't think ANYTHING will substantially increase RL sales. To start out with, the market for mid-size luxury sedans in this price range is decreasing, which shows in sales of the RL, the Infiniti M and the Lexus GS. Only the Germans are increasing sales, and that's probably because of their insanely loyal customer base. Also, the RL is essentially a car primarily with the Japanese market in mind, with North America almost being an afterthought. And with the new TL Type S coming soon, I think Acura of North America is purposely trying to marginalize the RL, which they had little involvement. I love my car, though.
08-08-2006, 11:47 AM
#5
Cruisin'
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A hybrid option would cost a lot more. People want to buy the Rl for 40-41 grand no more. I think a hybrid option would be sweet but I don't think it will help alot. Look at the lexus gs 450h. It is selling but not substanially.
08-08-2006, 03:04 PM
#6
Welcome to Olliewood
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
I think they will put whatever engine goes into the upcoming MDX into the RL. We should find out September 1.
Too bad, cuz i read sumwhere that they're just gunna put the current RL engine into the MDX
08-08-2006, 04:37 PM
#7
AcurAdmirer
A hybrid RL would probably sell about 100 total units and then tank. The hybrid market is emotion-driven and appeals only to a narrowly-defined market share. And current hybrid sales exist largely because of hefty federal tax credits that help offset the higher price.
Note that the newest "hybrids" coming along are playing not on gas savings, but on performance ... teaming electric motors with gasoline or even diesel engines to make huge horsepower and quick zero-to-60 times.
All the RL needs is more power. I'd probably be driving one right now if I weren't disappointed with the acceleration!
Note that the newest "hybrids" coming along are playing not on gas savings, but on performance ... teaming electric motors with gasoline or even diesel engines to make huge horsepower and quick zero-to-60 times.
All the RL needs is more power. I'd probably be driving one right now if I weren't disappointed with the acceleration!
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08-08-2006, 04:43 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
There could be an alternative to more engine power if fast acceleration is the goal. Honda/Acura could also re-program the automatic transmission to sacrifice smoothness for sporty acceleration. That might be one of the differences between the Lexus GS (smooth) and the Infiniti M (sporty).
08-08-2006, 04:45 PM
#9
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
There could be an alternative to more engine power if fast acceleration is the goal. Honda/Acura could also re-program the automatic transmission to sacrifice smoothness for sporty acceleration. That might be one of the differences between the Lexus GS (smooth) and the Infiniti M (sporty).
True, bit isn't that the purpose of the sportshift/paddles?
08-08-2006, 07:14 PM
#10
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The RL is a mistake. The new Type-S TL is going to rob sales from the RL anyway. It's a nice car but it doesn't fit with Acura. Too bad. We sales consultants had such high hopes for this car.
08-08-2006, 07:40 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
You Acura sales consultants apparently have never been able to sell a luxury vehicle with a base MSRP over $45K. ANY car Honda gives you in that price range is a mistake.
08-08-2006, 08:38 PM
#12
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Honda can't even reach its sales goal for the hybrid Accord so I doubt a hybrid RL will ever come to market.
The past four years, Infiniti has done an excellent job re-inventing themselves as a serious adversary to Lexus & BMW. Acura is now where Infiniti was a few years ago.
Side note: Acura really started losing face when they let the previous generation RL slide w/o serious change for eight years.
The past four years, Infiniti has done an excellent job re-inventing themselves as a serious adversary to Lexus & BMW. Acura is now where Infiniti was a few years ago.
Side note: Acura really started losing face when they let the previous generation RL slide w/o serious change for eight years.
08-08-2006, 08:43 PM
#13
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I think if the Rl becomes more powerful and quicker than the acura tl type S and stays in the low 40s, then people will stop complaining about the Rl. Its a great bargain if you ask me. The M is expensive compared to the Rl and its doing much better. The only difference the M has over the Rl is it quicker, if acura can fix that, then its fair game.
08-08-2006, 09:02 PM
#14
AcurAdmirer
Originally Posted by CL6
The RL is a mistake. The new Type-S TL is going to rob sales from the RL anyway. It's a nice car but it doesn't fit with Acura. Too bad. We sales consultants had such high hopes for this car.
You need to get your target markets figured out!
08-08-2006, 10:43 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Do people take into account how much torque steer a TL Type S with 256 pound-feet of torque would have? Sheesh! Either let FWD go, or ease up on the torque!
08-08-2006, 10:44 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
P.S.: According to "Car & Driver," the TL Type S will have an estimated MSRP of $39K. That's probably the upper limit of what most Acura fans would pay for an Acura sedan.
08-09-2006, 03:43 PM
#17
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It has nothing to do with me selling a car over 45k it has to do with nobody interested in buying one. RL sales ain't in the toilet because every sales person at Acura sucks.
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
You Acura sales consultants apparently have never been able to sell a luxury vehicle with a base MSRP over $45K. ANY car Honda gives you in that price range is a mistake.
08-09-2006, 03:48 PM
#18
Three Wheelin'
It does have to do with Acura's brand image being unable to support cars past a certain price range, and the general dealership experience has a LOT to do with that. I think there are many Acura customers and potential customers who have visited Acura dealerships and found them less than adequate compared to other luxury dealerships, especially Lexus. And Acura sales people have a lot of responsibility for that, as do Acura service people.
Tell me this: what is about the Lexus GS 300 that is so much more superior to the RL that it has substantially more sales? Aren't sales people a factor?
Tell me this: what is about the Lexus GS 300 that is so much more superior to the RL that it has substantially more sales? Aren't sales people a factor?
08-09-2006, 04:16 PM
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I can't speak to Lexus because I don't work there but people don't really take to the RL, especially when they look into leasing. I work at an upscale dealership with upscale customers in an upscale area which should be the RLs market, but everyone I've shown an RL to have leased a BMW or Lexus. I haven't sold a new RL all year as a matter of fact. And where I work has barely ever sold an RL. And the fact that you can buy a new RL for $41,000 doesn't lend an aura of 'luxury' to that model.
I'm sure salespeople have blown an RL sale because they were tacky or whatever but this does not explain why the RL is such a dog.
And I just don't think the RL has what it takes to compete in its price range. It's a Honda product foisted upon Acura and it doesn't fit with our line-up. The 07 TL Type-S will illustrate that problem even more.
I'm sure salespeople have blown an RL sale because they were tacky or whatever but this does not explain why the RL is such a dog.
And I just don't think the RL has what it takes to compete in its price range. It's a Honda product foisted upon Acura and it doesn't fit with our line-up. The 07 TL Type-S will illustrate that problem even more.
08-09-2006, 04:34 PM
#20
Three Wheelin'
I agree with you wholeheartedly on the leases. Honda finance should have found a way to make the leases much more reasonable. Of course, Honda finance, like Honda/Acura in general, it not accustomed to the true luxury market, where the large majority of the cars are leased instead of purchased.
The 07 TL Type S will sell mainly because the price should be under $40K. A $45K - 50K TL wouldn't sell much better than the RL.
Let's look in the other direction: the previous-generation TL resembled the current RL, and was the same size. In fact, it was probably designed by the same Honda people in Japan. Yet it sold well. Why? Price. Acura is not adept at selling expensive cars. For one thing, brand itself is not promoted well. They are just starting to do the types of promotions Lexus did over a decade ago. Secondly, the dealerships are not up to par. The service and sales departments are accustomed to dealing with "entry-level" luxury cars such as the TSX and TL. There were early complaints of service departments that didn't know how to turn off the RL, let alone service the car. Also, there have been complaints of customers having to explain to Acura sales people how to use the RL. In addition, I have sat in an Acura dealership and watched a salesperson fail miserably at explaining the difference between the RL and the TL.
The RL itself is not a bad car, it just happens to be sold under the wrong brand. Something similar happened to the VW Phaeton, which would have sold quite well had it been under the Audio brand instead of the VW brand. To my knowledge the RL has never had a bad review, and it does well in comparison tests to other cars. However, I don't think ANY Acura car over a certain base price will ever do well until Acura improves its brand image and finds a way to improve those independent dealerships. Not all dealerships are bad and not all sales people are tacky and inept, but taken as a group, they are not ready for the luxury car major leagues.
Finally, I'm sorry if your dealership hasn't sold any RL's this year. Maybe it is a regional thing, since RL's seem to be selling quite well in the Washington, DC area and fairly well in the San Francisco Bay area. Then again, maybe there is a different kind of upscale customer in your area.
The 07 TL Type S will sell mainly because the price should be under $40K. A $45K - 50K TL wouldn't sell much better than the RL.
Let's look in the other direction: the previous-generation TL resembled the current RL, and was the same size. In fact, it was probably designed by the same Honda people in Japan. Yet it sold well. Why? Price. Acura is not adept at selling expensive cars. For one thing, brand itself is not promoted well. They are just starting to do the types of promotions Lexus did over a decade ago. Secondly, the dealerships are not up to par. The service and sales departments are accustomed to dealing with "entry-level" luxury cars such as the TSX and TL. There were early complaints of service departments that didn't know how to turn off the RL, let alone service the car. Also, there have been complaints of customers having to explain to Acura sales people how to use the RL. In addition, I have sat in an Acura dealership and watched a salesperson fail miserably at explaining the difference between the RL and the TL.
The RL itself is not a bad car, it just happens to be sold under the wrong brand. Something similar happened to the VW Phaeton, which would have sold quite well had it been under the Audio brand instead of the VW brand. To my knowledge the RL has never had a bad review, and it does well in comparison tests to other cars. However, I don't think ANY Acura car over a certain base price will ever do well until Acura improves its brand image and finds a way to improve those independent dealerships. Not all dealerships are bad and not all sales people are tacky and inept, but taken as a group, they are not ready for the luxury car major leagues.
Finally, I'm sorry if your dealership hasn't sold any RL's this year. Maybe it is a regional thing, since RL's seem to be selling quite well in the Washington, DC area and fairly well in the San Francisco Bay area. Then again, maybe there is a different kind of upscale customer in your area.
08-09-2006, 04:54 PM
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Acura sold boatloads of NSXs the first year out and that was when Acura had no history. They still sold them for many years so I think your point about price is not correct.
I believe the TL/CL were designed in the US not in Japan although certainly they did share a common look. The 07 TL cannot sell for more because it is a FWD car and the perception is that this is not truly luxury I think.
You can lease more car with BMW or Audi or even Lexus. I'm sure there are some dealerships which are not even close to being on par with Lexus. But this does not account for such poor RL sales.
Some customers know more about certain things on the cars because they spend hours upon hours on the web looking up things. Sometimes I run into these people who try and test me and show off their knowledge or to trick me but 98% of people don't care about these things. But yes, Acura salespeople need to learn more about the RL.
The Phaeton is a good point. But that really was reaching on VWs part, being some $30,000 or more than their other cars. Plus the car looked like a fat Passat.
The RL is not a bad car at all. I'd own one for the right price and throw in a supercharger. I think the RL is a very nice car with some great features for sure. I love its seats too.
My dealership is in the Bay Area and the RLs ain't selling well from what I know!
I believe the TL/CL were designed in the US not in Japan although certainly they did share a common look. The 07 TL cannot sell for more because it is a FWD car and the perception is that this is not truly luxury I think.
You can lease more car with BMW or Audi or even Lexus. I'm sure there are some dealerships which are not even close to being on par with Lexus. But this does not account for such poor RL sales.
Some customers know more about certain things on the cars because they spend hours upon hours on the web looking up things. Sometimes I run into these people who try and test me and show off their knowledge or to trick me but 98% of people don't care about these things. But yes, Acura salespeople need to learn more about the RL.
The Phaeton is a good point. But that really was reaching on VWs part, being some $30,000 or more than their other cars. Plus the car looked like a fat Passat.
The RL is not a bad car at all. I'd own one for the right price and throw in a supercharger. I think the RL is a very nice car with some great features for sure. I love its seats too.
My dealership is in the Bay Area and the RLs ain't selling well from what I know!
08-09-2006, 04:58 PM
#22
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
...
The RL itself is not a bad car, it just happens to be sold under the wrong brand. Something similar happened to the VW Phaeton, which would have sold quite well had it been under the Audio brand instead of the VW brand. To my knowledge the RL has never had a bad review, and it does well in comparison tests to other cars. However, I don't think ANY Acura car over a certain base price will ever do well until Acura improves its brand image and finds a way to improve those independent dealerships. Not all dealerships are bad and not all sales people are tacky and inept, but taken as a group, they are not ready for the luxury car major leagues.
....
The RL itself is not a bad car, it just happens to be sold under the wrong brand. Something similar happened to the VW Phaeton, which would have sold quite well had it been under the Audio brand instead of the VW brand. To my knowledge the RL has never had a bad review, and it does well in comparison tests to other cars. However, I don't think ANY Acura car over a certain base price will ever do well until Acura improves its brand image and finds a way to improve those independent dealerships. Not all dealerships are bad and not all sales people are tacky and inept, but taken as a group, they are not ready for the luxury car major leagues.
....
The RL has outperformed the GS, is available at a lower price, and yet it still lags in sales. To me it sounds like a marketing and identity problem.
08-09-2006, 05:06 PM
#23
Three Wheelin'
And I'm not sure what is meant by a "boatload" of NSX's being sold. How well did the NSX sell relative to its competition? Also, for the past few years before the NSX's demise, it was not a major seller. Again, it is part of an overall problem with Acura's brand image, and Acura stores (particularly its salespeople) are part of the image.
In my line of work, if my clients know more about the products I use and my job than I do, then I look bad. But maybe it's just in my line of work. If customers are spending "hours and hours on the web" doing research, shouldn't the sales people being doing something similar? Why prepare for the lowest common denominator of customer instead of the highest? An underdog like Acura can't afford that.
Let's face it, if the Acura RL were a Lexus RL, or even an Infiniti RL, it would sell more units. I guess it is up to Acura and its dealerships to decide whether they want to be like Lexus/Infiniti or do they want to be like Volvo: a "near-luxury" brand.
In my line of work, if my clients know more about the products I use and my job than I do, then I look bad. But maybe it's just in my line of work. If customers are spending "hours and hours on the web" doing research, shouldn't the sales people being doing something similar? Why prepare for the lowest common denominator of customer instead of the highest? An underdog like Acura can't afford that.
Let's face it, if the Acura RL were a Lexus RL, or even an Infiniti RL, it would sell more units. I guess it is up to Acura and its dealerships to decide whether they want to be like Lexus/Infiniti or do they want to be like Volvo: a "near-luxury" brand.
08-09-2006, 05:14 PM
#24
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The first year of the NSX there were 3,163 sold. Majority in the US. Those cars had mark-ups over over $20,000 on them and they sold. Sales dropped down slowly over the years but the car went 15 years AS IS. Not bad.
I've had people ask me how many channels the ABS is. Granted, not a typical question and to 99.9% of the people not an important one. Anybody can learn more about something than someone else if you spend enough time on it. If some salesperson somewhere cannot answer a question that 0.01% of their customers ask I guess that's just the way it is. But knowing how to work the Navi is an important skill and any salesperson who doesn't know that should be ashamed.
Who knows how much is brand vs. car vs. image with the RL. Fact is, the RL is the only car Acura has ever sold that has sold this badly. I'm not saying its the car... but maybe it's the car.
Acura has no control over what dealerships do or don't. They can't make everybody wear black polo shirts or have a nice marble showroom or even say 'thank you' to customers so there is only so much to be done, unfotunately.
I've had people ask me how many channels the ABS is. Granted, not a typical question and to 99.9% of the people not an important one. Anybody can learn more about something than someone else if you spend enough time on it. If some salesperson somewhere cannot answer a question that 0.01% of their customers ask I guess that's just the way it is. But knowing how to work the Navi is an important skill and any salesperson who doesn't know that should be ashamed.
Who knows how much is brand vs. car vs. image with the RL. Fact is, the RL is the only car Acura has ever sold that has sold this badly. I'm not saying its the car... but maybe it's the car.
Acura has no control over what dealerships do or don't. They can't make everybody wear black polo shirts or have a nice marble showroom or even say 'thank you' to customers so there is only so much to be done, unfotunately.
Originally Posted by jhr3uva90
And I'm not sure what is meant by a "boatload" of NSX's being sold. How well did the NSX sell relative to its competition? Also, for the past few years before the NSX's demise, it was not a major seller. Again, it is part of an overall problem with Acura's brand image, and Acura stores (particularly its salespeople) are part of the image.
In my line of work, if my clients know more about the products I use and my job than I do, then I look bad. But maybe it's just in my line of work. If customers are spending "hours and hours on the web" doing research, shouldn't the sales people being doing something similar? Why prepare for the lowest common denominator of customer instead of the highest? An underdog like Acura can't afford that.
Let's face it, if the Acura RL were a Lexus RL, or even an Infiniti RL, it would sell more units. I guess it is up to Acura and its dealerships to decide whether they want to be like Lexus/Infiniti or do they want to be like Volvo: a "near-luxury" brand.
In my line of work, if my clients know more about the products I use and my job than I do, then I look bad. But maybe it's just in my line of work. If customers are spending "hours and hours on the web" doing research, shouldn't the sales people being doing something similar? Why prepare for the lowest common denominator of customer instead of the highest? An underdog like Acura can't afford that.
Let's face it, if the Acura RL were a Lexus RL, or even an Infiniti RL, it would sell more units. I guess it is up to Acura and its dealerships to decide whether they want to be like Lexus/Infiniti or do they want to be like Volvo: a "near-luxury" brand.
08-09-2006, 05:41 PM
#25
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
The Acura Vigor was also a failure. Decent car, but people couldn't get past the quirky 5-Cylinder and tight back seat.
I don't think the deal breaker is whether or not you've memorized the schematics of the braking system. It's more about understanding your product and being able to differentiate the models from each other.
When I went in to buy my car, I knew as much about it than most of the salesman on the floor. I ended up buying my car from a leading salesperson in the dealership (I can't remember the designation). He has had no problems selling the RL.
I asked him why the RL is lagging in sales. His response was that most people (customers AND sales people) don't see enough of a differntiation between the TL and the RL.
He then went on to say, "That's too bad, because the RL does significantly stand out from the TL and is a significant upgrade".
Sure that could just be sales speak to make me feel good about my purchase, but that doesn't changes the fact that he has been able to move the RL.
What helps this specific dealership is that their service department has won numerous awards and treats me like a VIP when I go in for service. Not just now that I own an RL, but also when I had my '01 TL and my '93 Vigor.
Something else, I had the owner greet me by name at our little league baseball diamonds weeks after I bought my car. He remembered me and asked how I was enjoying my car.
My dealer also offered an owner's clinic a month after I took delivery of my car. The clinic had RSX owners all the way up to RL owners. As they explained the features of the car, they often made comments such as, "except for the RL, which is ....". My point is that they differentiated their flagship car from the rest of the vehicles.
The clinic ended with a coupon for a free oil change, a first aid kit and a free bottle of touch-up paint, and at the end of the clinic, all of our cars were lined up outside of the dealership, freshly washed.
Additionally, the other day I swung by to have my car hand-washed (because I didn't have time). Everytime I have my car serviced, the car is vacuumed and washed. Free coffee and refreshments for customers waiting along with wireless internet availability.
This is what this specific dealer does not only to differentiate itself from competitors, but also from other ACURA dealers, as I can tell you that there are at least a couple of other local Acura dealers who don't come close to this level of customer service.
I don't think the deal breaker is whether or not you've memorized the schematics of the braking system. It's more about understanding your product and being able to differentiate the models from each other.
When I went in to buy my car, I knew as much about it than most of the salesman on the floor. I ended up buying my car from a leading salesperson in the dealership (I can't remember the designation). He has had no problems selling the RL.
I asked him why the RL is lagging in sales. His response was that most people (customers AND sales people) don't see enough of a differntiation between the TL and the RL.
He then went on to say, "That's too bad, because the RL does significantly stand out from the TL and is a significant upgrade".
Sure that could just be sales speak to make me feel good about my purchase, but that doesn't changes the fact that he has been able to move the RL.
What helps this specific dealership is that their service department has won numerous awards and treats me like a VIP when I go in for service. Not just now that I own an RL, but also when I had my '01 TL and my '93 Vigor.
Something else, I had the owner greet me by name at our little league baseball diamonds weeks after I bought my car. He remembered me and asked how I was enjoying my car.
My dealer also offered an owner's clinic a month after I took delivery of my car. The clinic had RSX owners all the way up to RL owners. As they explained the features of the car, they often made comments such as, "except for the RL, which is ....". My point is that they differentiated their flagship car from the rest of the vehicles.
The clinic ended with a coupon for a free oil change, a first aid kit and a free bottle of touch-up paint, and at the end of the clinic, all of our cars were lined up outside of the dealership, freshly washed.
Additionally, the other day I swung by to have my car hand-washed (because I didn't have time). Everytime I have my car serviced, the car is vacuumed and washed. Free coffee and refreshments for customers waiting along with wireless internet availability.
This is what this specific dealer does not only to differentiate itself from competitors, but also from other ACURA dealers, as I can tell you that there are at least a couple of other local Acura dealers who don't come close to this level of customer service.
08-09-2006, 06:01 PM
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Yeah we do all the clinic and all that. It's a nice program and I wish more dealerships did that. Sometimes people don't differentiate beween the TL and RL but there are significant differences. ACE body, SH-AWD, 3.5 engine, Nav traffic, aluminium construction, noise cancellation, etc.
I've had people whom I was certain would choose the RL but when they went and got leases from other places they were gone. These people could afford any car they wanted, but perhaps more car, presitge, and a cheaper payment is what did it. I don't know because once someone decides not to buy an RL it can be tough to get honest feedback but the biggest comment I've had is 'lack of power.'
I'm glad you had a good experience.
I've had people whom I was certain would choose the RL but when they went and got leases from other places they were gone. These people could afford any car they wanted, but perhaps more car, presitge, and a cheaper payment is what did it. I don't know because once someone decides not to buy an RL it can be tough to get honest feedback but the biggest comment I've had is 'lack of power.'
I'm glad you had a good experience.
08-09-2006, 06:04 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
GoHawks has made very good points.
Also, the current RL is outselling its predecessor. In addition, the RL is sold in other countries as the Legend. As long as the cumulative global sales of the car are okay, then I'm sure Honda will be satisfied.
Finally, I'm not suggesting that the sales people should know every minute detail of the RL, but some lack basic knowledge. How many Acura sales people can explain SH-AWD, particularly the "SH" part of it? How many know the difference between the RL's navigation system and the TL's? How many can explain why the RL's navigation system might not need a touch screen? How many know that the RL's audio system can play MP3s without an iPod? How many know how to turn the car on and off? The last was a serious question; I've heard of some sales people who have left the car partially on.
Also, the current RL is outselling its predecessor. In addition, the RL is sold in other countries as the Legend. As long as the cumulative global sales of the car are okay, then I'm sure Honda will be satisfied.
Finally, I'm not suggesting that the sales people should know every minute detail of the RL, but some lack basic knowledge. How many Acura sales people can explain SH-AWD, particularly the "SH" part of it? How many know the difference between the RL's navigation system and the TL's? How many can explain why the RL's navigation system might not need a touch screen? How many know that the RL's audio system can play MP3s without an iPod? How many know how to turn the car on and off? The last was a serious question; I've heard of some sales people who have left the car partially on.
08-09-2006, 07:51 PM
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Yeah those are all good issues. I'd be shocked if I ran into a sales person who didn't know even those basic issues. The old RL was a real dog that stayed basically the same for almost 10 years so no surprise this one outsells it.
I sold a car to a Japanese guy. I asked him about the RL. He said his father looked at one in Japan (Legend) he said it was too expensive so he got a BMW. He said it wasn't selling well. Granted, only one guy but I guess it confirmed my prejudice about the car. I'd love to see what the global sales are for the RL/Legend. I've tried to find out what they are in Japan but not had any luck so far. Maybe somebody can find that information.
How many people know about the Snow Park feature on the RL's wipers?
I sold a car to a Japanese guy. I asked him about the RL. He said his father looked at one in Japan (Legend) he said it was too expensive so he got a BMW. He said it wasn't selling well. Granted, only one guy but I guess it confirmed my prejudice about the car. I'd love to see what the global sales are for the RL/Legend. I've tried to find out what they are in Japan but not had any luck so far. Maybe somebody can find that information.
How many people know about the Snow Park feature on the RL's wipers?
08-09-2006, 08:47 PM
#29
Suzuka Master
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its funny how these RL threads keep multiplying...but basically all say the same thing trying to answer why RL sales suck.
It's an image thing...sure, if the RL was a "Lexus" RL (no changes, no additional engines or options, just a rebadge), it would probably sell well at MSRP.
As for "Infiniti" RL, i don't think it would sell well at all and be where it's at whether it's an Acura or "Infiniti". Infiniti doesn't yet have a strong image yet for the car to depend on...and Infinitis are more sport oriented, so the RL would be ridiculed as an "oddball" infiniti because it doesnt' come with RWD or more options.
The RL is a good car. But it can't sell due to image. Acura's current image is the "value" leader of premium brands and Acura obviously tries to maintain this image by offering fewer options, drivetrain choices, and trim levels in order to lower manufacturing costs in order to bring the "value" to the customer.
If a buyer's priority is value, they'll be shopping Civics and Corollas, and Accords and Camries. As you move up the price scale, value becomes less and less important until you reach a threshold around $40k where value becomes a very small part of a purchase decision (that's why TL's sell great and RL's don't).
most people, even a lot of people on this site, say the RL is a great car "for the price", or "at this price, the RL can't be beat", or "you can't get a better all around car for this price". i agree, at the selling prices, the RL can't be beat and is a VERY smart choice. But the catch is always "for the price".
the NSX in its day, it was a FUKKING OUTRAGEOUS offering from Acura, and it boosted Acura's image immensely. Unfortunately Acura milked the NSX dead rather than taking care of the cow (by more frequent updates and generations), and in the end it went out with more or less a wimper.
In order to break this "value" image, Acura's gotta offer a FUKKING OUTRAGEOUS RL, one that unquestionably is equal to or better than all its competitors in most regards. One that a customer will say, "I'm want this car because it is AWESOME for X and Y and Z reasons!"
It's an image thing...sure, if the RL was a "Lexus" RL (no changes, no additional engines or options, just a rebadge), it would probably sell well at MSRP.
As for "Infiniti" RL, i don't think it would sell well at all and be where it's at whether it's an Acura or "Infiniti". Infiniti doesn't yet have a strong image yet for the car to depend on...and Infinitis are more sport oriented, so the RL would be ridiculed as an "oddball" infiniti because it doesnt' come with RWD or more options.
The RL is a good car. But it can't sell due to image. Acura's current image is the "value" leader of premium brands and Acura obviously tries to maintain this image by offering fewer options, drivetrain choices, and trim levels in order to lower manufacturing costs in order to bring the "value" to the customer.
If a buyer's priority is value, they'll be shopping Civics and Corollas, and Accords and Camries. As you move up the price scale, value becomes less and less important until you reach a threshold around $40k where value becomes a very small part of a purchase decision (that's why TL's sell great and RL's don't).
most people, even a lot of people on this site, say the RL is a great car "for the price", or "at this price, the RL can't be beat", or "you can't get a better all around car for this price". i agree, at the selling prices, the RL can't be beat and is a VERY smart choice. But the catch is always "for the price".
the NSX in its day, it was a FUKKING OUTRAGEOUS offering from Acura, and it boosted Acura's image immensely. Unfortunately Acura milked the NSX dead rather than taking care of the cow (by more frequent updates and generations), and in the end it went out with more or less a wimper.
In order to break this "value" image, Acura's gotta offer a FUKKING OUTRAGEOUS RL, one that unquestionably is equal to or better than all its competitors in most regards. One that a customer will say, "I'm want this car because it is AWESOME for X and Y and Z reasons!"
08-09-2006, 10:10 PM
#30
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Acura doesn't offer all those model variations, I believe, because they will not make as much money on each variant. When asked why the RDX doesn't have a six speed the answer is 'market share would not justify the cost.' I'm surprised Acura is taking a chance on the TL and offering a 3.2 and a 3.5. They see TL sales starting to tank and are finally taking chances. The TSX should come with a V6, sort of like how the Lexus IS has a small 6 and a big 6. The TSX would rock with a 6 (or RDX turbo). The RL should come in a 6 and an 8 (or 6 with turbo).
Honda is too damn conservative which is why Toyota is eating their lunch. They think 'too Japanese.' Hopefully when the American design center is running we will not have halfway cars.
The death of Mr. Honda was a big blow to Honda and Acura. Looks like with the new Civic and the RDX things are back on track. About time.
Honda is too damn conservative which is why Toyota is eating their lunch. They think 'too Japanese.' Hopefully when the American design center is running we will not have halfway cars.
The death of Mr. Honda was a big blow to Honda and Acura. Looks like with the new Civic and the RDX things are back on track. About time.
08-09-2006, 11:20 PM
#31
Originally Posted by GoHawks
The Acura Vigor was also a failure. Decent car, but people couldn't get past the quirky 5-Cylinder and tight back seat.
I don't think the deal breaker is whether or not you've memorized the schematics of the braking system. It's more about understanding your product and being able to differentiate the models from each other.
When I went in to buy my car, I knew as much about it than most of the salesman on the floor. I ended up buying my car from a leading salesperson in the dealership (I can't remember the designation). He has had no problems selling the RL.
I asked him why the RL is lagging in sales. His response was that most people (customers AND sales people) don't see enough of a differntiation between the TL and the RL.
He then went on to say, "That's too bad, because the RL does significantly stand out from the TL and is a significant upgrade".
Sure that could just be sales speak to make me feel good about my purchase, but that doesn't changes the fact that he has been able to move the RL.
What helps this specific dealership is that their service department has won numerous awards and treats me like a VIP when I go in for service. Not just now that I own an RL, but also when I had my '01 TL and my '93 Vigor.
Something else, I had the owner greet me by name at our little league baseball diamonds weeks after I bought my car. He remembered me and asked how I was enjoying my car.
My dealer also offered an owner's clinic a month after I took delivery of my car. The clinic had RSX owners all the way up to RL owners. As they explained the features of the car, they often made comments such as, "except for the RL, which is ....". My point is that they differentiated their flagship car from the rest of the vehicles.
The clinic ended with a coupon for a free oil change, a first aid kit and a free bottle of touch-up paint, and at the end of the clinic, all of our cars were lined up outside of the dealership, freshly washed.
Additionally, the other day I swung by to have my car hand-washed (because I didn't have time). Everytime I have my car serviced, the car is vacuumed and washed. Free coffee and refreshments for customers waiting along with wireless internet availability.
This is what this specific dealer does not only to differentiate itself from competitors, but also from other ACURA dealers, as I can tell you that there are at least a couple of other local Acura dealers who don't come close to this level of customer service.
I don't think the deal breaker is whether or not you've memorized the schematics of the braking system. It's more about understanding your product and being able to differentiate the models from each other.
When I went in to buy my car, I knew as much about it than most of the salesman on the floor. I ended up buying my car from a leading salesperson in the dealership (I can't remember the designation). He has had no problems selling the RL.
I asked him why the RL is lagging in sales. His response was that most people (customers AND sales people) don't see enough of a differntiation between the TL and the RL.
He then went on to say, "That's too bad, because the RL does significantly stand out from the TL and is a significant upgrade".
Sure that could just be sales speak to make me feel good about my purchase, but that doesn't changes the fact that he has been able to move the RL.
What helps this specific dealership is that their service department has won numerous awards and treats me like a VIP when I go in for service. Not just now that I own an RL, but also when I had my '01 TL and my '93 Vigor.
Something else, I had the owner greet me by name at our little league baseball diamonds weeks after I bought my car. He remembered me and asked how I was enjoying my car.
My dealer also offered an owner's clinic a month after I took delivery of my car. The clinic had RSX owners all the way up to RL owners. As they explained the features of the car, they often made comments such as, "except for the RL, which is ....". My point is that they differentiated their flagship car from the rest of the vehicles.
The clinic ended with a coupon for a free oil change, a first aid kit and a free bottle of touch-up paint, and at the end of the clinic, all of our cars were lined up outside of the dealership, freshly washed.
Additionally, the other day I swung by to have my car hand-washed (because I didn't have time). Everytime I have my car serviced, the car is vacuumed and washed. Free coffee and refreshments for customers waiting along with wireless internet availability.
This is what this specific dealer does not only to differentiate itself from competitors, but also from other ACURA dealers, as I can tell you that there are at least a couple of other local Acura dealers who don't come close to this level of customer service.
The RL has an abundance of toys, great looks, speed, and lots of luxury. I also expect it to be as reliable as the 7 Japanese cars I've owned.
08-10-2006, 12:29 AM
#32
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by CL6
How many people know about the Snow Park feature on the RL's wipers?
08-10-2006, 01:07 AM
#34
2012 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe
Originally Posted by kollamala
What is this snow park feature?
08-10-2006, 01:16 AM
#35
Three Wheelin'
I agree with mrdeeno. Again, Acura needs to decide on whether it wants to be a VALUE luxury brand or a REAL luxury brand. If they choose the later, then they have quite a way to go. To begin with, they will need both a halo car and a real flagship (meaning a full-size sedan with a V8 engine or larger). Then, they're going to have to do quite a bit on the marketing side. However, based on the RDX, I think Acura wants to stick with the former.
Regarding Toyota eating Honda's lunch, Toyota is eating EVERYBODY's lunch. It is one of the top 3 largest car manufacturers in the world and probably #1 in profits. Toyota is a juggernaught that cannot be stopped. Honda, on the other hand, isn't even in the top 5 in size. It is basically a MOTOR company that also happens to build some cars to put the motors in. If you look at Honda's most recent annual report, they were emphasizing everything from robots to airplanes (they finally have an airplane ready). Cars were just part of their business, and not even the biggest part (that would be motorcycles). Toyota are both Japanese car companies that happen to make cars. That's pretty much where the similarity ends.
Regarding Toyota eating Honda's lunch, Toyota is eating EVERYBODY's lunch. It is one of the top 3 largest car manufacturers in the world and probably #1 in profits. Toyota is a juggernaught that cannot be stopped. Honda, on the other hand, isn't even in the top 5 in size. It is basically a MOTOR company that also happens to build some cars to put the motors in. If you look at Honda's most recent annual report, they were emphasizing everything from robots to airplanes (they finally have an airplane ready). Cars were just part of their business, and not even the biggest part (that would be motorcycles). Toyota are both Japanese car companies that happen to make cars. That's pretty much where the similarity ends.
08-10-2006, 07:30 AM
#36
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i think Acura NEEDS to move upmarket and get away from value-focused customers...simply because Honda models ARE constantly moving upmarket, that's why they ahd to introduce a model under the civic. The Accord is pushing $30k and i'm sure the next generation will have a non-hybrid trim over $30k. As honda models sell well and compete with camry and altimas, not to mention avalons and maximas, the accord's gonna move further and further upmarket to compete in its segment, and the TL HAS to move upmarket to give the Accord room to move up. The RL is above the TL, and if the RL can't move up, the TL has nowhere to go while the Accord runs right into it, and there goes Acura's strongest seller.
Over the long term (15+years), what I see is that Acura must move upmarket or cease to exist, otherwise Honda's upper offerings will run right over Acura's lower offerings. Not only that, the competition is only going to get tougher as Hyundai and other brands get better and better and start competing in these premium entry-level segments, which is currently Acura's strength. More competition means that any fukkup, no matter how small, and the competition will jump all over it.
Volvo and Saab dont' have this problem because they don't have a lower brand to worry about forcing them upmarket, so they can stick around where they're at pretty much forever.
For Acura, it's more risky to stay in the entry-premium segment than to take more risks to move upmarket.
Over the long term (15+years), what I see is that Acura must move upmarket or cease to exist, otherwise Honda's upper offerings will run right over Acura's lower offerings. Not only that, the competition is only going to get tougher as Hyundai and other brands get better and better and start competing in these premium entry-level segments, which is currently Acura's strength. More competition means that any fukkup, no matter how small, and the competition will jump all over it.
Volvo and Saab dont' have this problem because they don't have a lower brand to worry about forcing them upmarket, so they can stick around where they're at pretty much forever.
For Acura, it's more risky to stay in the entry-premium segment than to take more risks to move upmarket.
08-10-2006, 11:31 AM
#37
Three Wheelin'
Acura might need to move up-market, but are they doing it? Killing the RSX was a good move in that direction. Perhaps the new RDX will allow the upcoming MDX to move more upscale, to become the RL of SUVs. But what about the high end? Will there ever be a true Acura flagship? Also, what is Acura doing to promote a more upscale image?
By the way, Acura corporate might not have direct control over the dealerships (similar to how the US Federal government has little direct control over the states), but they can exert indirect control using financial incentives (similar to what the Federal government does with the states). They did that in the mid to late 1990's by encouraging dealerships to have a more consistent look. Now if they can encourage (or bribe) the dealerships to be more consistent in sales person knowledge and finesse. . .
By the way, Acura corporate might not have direct control over the dealerships (similar to how the US Federal government has little direct control over the states), but they can exert indirect control using financial incentives (similar to what the Federal government does with the states). They did that in the mid to late 1990's by encouraging dealerships to have a more consistent look. Now if they can encourage (or bribe) the dealerships to be more consistent in sales person knowledge and finesse. . .
08-10-2006, 11:40 AM
#38
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See the problem is that Acura thinks it's moving upscale by dropping the RSX and increasing prices. Lexus runs ads 24/7 and Acura needs to do this. I am supposedly in Acura's demographic for the RDX but I haven't see a single ad for this car. I probably see 5 Lexus ads per day.
08-10-2006, 11:47 AM
#39
Three Wheelin'
Toyota is the most profitable car manufacturer on earth. They can afford to advertise Lexus 24/7. Honda doesn't have it like that and what money they have must be split between the Acura brand, the Honda brand, motorcycles, Asimo, the new airplanes, etc. In addition, studies have shown that TV advertising does not necessarily induce people to buy cars. What Acura needs is more product placements. Let's see what happens in that realm.
08-10-2006, 11:54 AM
#40
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Originally Posted by CL6
See the problem is that Acura thinks it's moving upscale by dropping the RSX and increasing prices. Lexus runs ads 24/7 and Acura needs to do this. I am supposedly in Acura's demographic for the RDX but I haven't see a single ad for this car. I probably see 5 Lexus ads per day.
Acura needs to push their excellent products by letting people know HOW excellent and innovative their products are. Being ranked high up in Consumer Reports helps, but You can't just sit in the corner and hope people will come to you.