stevesrl

Background:

TSB exist regarding a whine noise that calls for the change out of the propeller shaft due to a failing center bearing. The bearing can not simply be changed out due to the design of the propeller shaft.

2005 and 2006 models have the whine noise. I see no posts regarding 2007, 2008, or 2009.

It has been written that the noise it not a problem more of a nuisance. I will never believe that. The rotating shaft is composed of 2 pieces the front and rear which is supported by the center bearing which is surrounded by an elastic material. The elastomer dampens the vibration. Obviously the normal vibration is wearing out the center bearing and causing it to make noise. Eventually the bearing will be slap wore out. Moreover, as the bearing wears, more vibration will be transferred to the rear differential. The rear differential is very expensive and they don’t even offer internal parts (other than service parts), and do not have rebuilding information in the service manual. So one would be forced to replace the whole rear differential if internal parts to rebuild can’t be purchased.

I am greatly concerned with this topic. I will be replacing my propeller shaft to as in hopes of protecting the rear differential.

Investigation:

I did an extensive search on the forum and summarized the result below. If cells are left blank then not enough information was given for me to fill out completely.

Well I have an excel spreadsheet summarizing all relative posts but it will not cut and paste properly. I am not redoing it in this freaking window. If anyone knows how to copy into this window spreadsheets (excel) and tables (word) please advise. I will post if someone tells me how. Note, you can't scan as a pdf and do as a picture. It said invalid file when I tried this.

Nice spreadsheet would have gone here.

Notes from the posts summary (that you can't see):

2005 and 2006 have the problem.

There are 2 ranges of speed that the noise is showing up at 30-40 mph and 70-80 mph.

My personal experience is: Two different noises exist.The first noise occurs at 20-40 mph and shows up during cold weather. The noise only appears at 20-40 mph, lasts for 2-3 seconds, and can only be heard during the initial 1-2 miles of driving. After, 1-2 miles the noise can not be reproduced. This noise it not a whine (high pitched noise that sounds like an improper ground. Kind of like what people will remedy with in line power feed filter going to an amplifier driving a stereo system). The noise is more like a “whirring” noise can be heard in 2nd, 3rd , or 4th gear, and neutral. Sounds kind of like wind/mechanical noise.

I have thought that it may be from internal parts in the differential that have wear. The reason the noise goes away after 1-2 miles is that oil fluid has now circulated over the worn parts and/or temperature increased (affecting viscosity) so the noise does not show up.

The second noise I have is the whine. This is distinguishly different than the propeller shaft noise. It sounds like a whine that one will hear when you add a low quality amplifier to a stereo system. It is definitely a continuous whine heard at 65-75 mph and changes pitch with the load being applied (uphill, coast, etc.). Additionally, the whine is sensitive to moisture…When it is raining the sound level is significantly decreased.

The most interesting posts are from robarasan, Ballinger, jedinyete120, and Surafiel. The most important posts are from Ballinger.

Ballinger's posts have stated that first they changed the differential and the noise went away. However, later (3 months) they replaced the propeller shaft.

Ballinger: Please post all the details you can. Particularly.

Describe the noise and when and how it occurred. Could the noise be reproduced after 1-2 miles of driving?

How did the dealer determine your differential was “Tostado”?

Once the noise reoccurred (changed propeller shaft)…Was it the same noise as before or different.

You initially brought your car in for a noise not a differential problem. If the differential was so bad it had to be changed, I would think the car would be acting very funny especially going uphill or when hard acceleration was taking place (SH-AWD transmitting more torque to the rear end).

How did your dealer explain that your differential was toast but the net effect was only a simple noise? I would think a shot differential would really create problems.

How did your dealer distinguish the noise requiring a differential replacement and a noise requiring the propeller shaft replacement?

Did your dealer ever say that the initial differential replacement was not the cause of the noise and it was actually the propeller shaft?

Robarson has very interesting post. He was hearing a noise at 40 mph and it was only lasting 5 seconds or less during cold weather. I strongly suspect that Robarsan had the whirring noise and this scares me greatly because of the differential change that was done to stop it.

Robarson, please provide all the details you can. I am particularly interested in did your situation mirror mine and how the dealer confirmed that is was the differential. Let’s think for a minute…You brought your car in for a noise not a differential problem If the differential was so bad it had to be changed I would think the car would be acting very funny especially going uphill or when hard acceleration was taking place (SH-AWD transmitting more torque to the rear end).

Jedinyte120: Very good identifying posts. He clearly states he has two different noises. (1) whine/howl from 25-40 mph and a (2) higher pitch noise at 65 plus mph. The propeller shaft change resulted in eliminating the 65 plus mph higher pitched noise. He still has the 25-40 mph noise.

Jedinytel20: Please respond back with how you are currently doing. Is the noise at 25-mph getting worse? Does the noise go away after a few miles of driving? Does the noise show up in different gears but within 25-40 mph? If the noise shows up again throw the tranny in neutral and see what happens.

Surafiel: Another differential post replacement. He said he had a “mechanical noise” 20-40 mph and after driving a couple of miles it would go away.

Surafiel please update us on how you are doing.

MIDRVR: Very interesting posts…He has the 20-40 mph noise and mirrors my first noise description to the tee. He has not had anything replaced and his noise showed up with only 12K on the vehicle.

MIDRVR please update us on how you are doing.

The below Table shows that in 2007 a new P/N was introduced with the last three digits being E01. I suspected and had this confirmed at a Honda dealership that this denotes an engineering change. Henceforth, the proper shaft to replace with would be P/N 40100-SJA-E01.

A nice table would go here showing all the P/N's for the propeller shaft from 2005-2009 but it will not cut and paste properly.

The differential P/N is the same for 2005-2008 P/N 41200-RJC-010 in 2009 it changed to 412-RJC-020. I don't expect that in 2009 it has an engineering change.

What I concluded from my research is that 25-40 mph noise is related to the differential but the issue does not result in functionality problems with the differential. No one took the car in for anything other than a noise occurring.

65-70 mph noise is from the propeller shaft and the correct part number to replace with is 40100-SJA-E01.

I am highly suspicious that the worn center bearing creates excessive vibration and it is harming the differential.

I am submitting this thread at this time and not including a lot more thoughts that I have on this. I figured I would submit and wait for feedback before I continue. You all probably think I am full of it anyway.

In any case, I plan on purchasing the propeller shaft for $1,356 (Acuraoemparts.com) vs. $1,808 (Dealer) and install myself to fix the 65-70 mph noise. I don't expect this to resolve the 40 mph noise. I will purchase a differential $3,132 vs. ($4,176 dealer) and install myself (25-40 mph noise). Before, I do the differential, I will wait till the differential shows physical problems other than an annoying noise, open up and attempt to rebuild if possible.

As a final note, if my suspensions are correct and the propeller takes out the differential… can it also take out the transfer case/tranny? I suspect not. The difference between the tranny propeller and differential propeller marriage is that the tranny drives the propeller and the propeller drives the differential.


I kindly request that all fellow Acuraziners chyme in if you have these two noises, differential work, propeller shaft work, or transmission work. I am desperately trying to determine if a relationship exists between the propeller shaft and differential. I do not want to destroy my differential by continuing to drive with the 65-70 mph whine. I am not saying there is a definite relationship. I am saying further research is needed and ask all to assist me and let's use this forum for it's intent. To share information as a group and collectively aid in increasing one's knowledge of the 2nd generation RL. With this knowledge, we can make educated decisions on how to effectively address our problems.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

TampaRLX-SH

Perhaps include last 4 digits on the VIN in your summary? It appears the bearing was rectified somewhere in the MY 2006 production. Not all 2006 RLs seem to be affected. You may discover the VIN range where this may have been rectified.

It also seems that more reports of this condition rise when weather turns cold, perhaps a condition which calls out this defect.

robarsan

Part of the spread sheet got truncated. After diagnosing the problem they told me it would take 4 days to get the part (differential) in. When I asked if it was OK to drive the car, they said "absolutely!" That made me wonder just how severe of a failure was it?
To get the spreadsheet in, I use Snagit for the screen capture, saved the picture as .png, and uploaded it into Photobucket......

CowboyRL

I hear a "un-grounded sounding" whine when I'm driving at 75 mph. However, I think it might have to do with the fact my keyless entry antenna was broken by the dealership when they were repairing something else. I'll let you know if the replacement of the antenna helps my situation.

2007AcuraRL

My 2007 has the whirring sound at 30mph but only on start up when cold. Because I keep the car garaged both at home and at the office its only happened to me once. When I took it to the dealer they didnt hear the noise so mine is still unresolved.

rlerman

Mine does the same thing, exactly at 30 mph and only when cold. I've already had the prop shaft bearing replaced.

Ballinger

Describe the noise and when and how it occurred. Could the noise be reproduced after 1-2 miles of driving?

The first time I went in, the noise was faint, but could hear it if I turned off the stereo and just rolled along. It was a high pitched whine.

How did the dealer determine your differential was “Tostado”?

I took it in for the whine, but I don't know what went down. They called and told me they'd checked the center diff bearing and it was fine. I asked the manager to take the car out with the stereo off, he did and then called back a few hours later with the diff judgement. I hadn't perceived any issues at all with the shifting or performance of the car.

Once the noise reoccurred (changed propeller shaft)…Was it the same noise as before or different.

Very similar, but louder.

You initially brought your car in for a noise not a differential problem. If the differential was so bad it had to be changed, I would think the car would be acting very funny especially going uphill or when hard acceleration was taking place (SH-AWD transmitting more torque to the rear end).

I agree, and I perceived no problems.

How did your dealer explain that your differential was toast but the net effect was only a simple noise? I would think a shot differential would really create problems.

No explanation.

How did your dealer distinguish the noise requiring a differential replacement and a noise requiring the propeller shaft replacement?

They put a stethoscope on the diff bearing.

Did your dealer ever say that the initial differential replacement was not the cause of the noise and it was actually the propeller shaft?

No.

Now, here's the rub: I now have a high pitched whine that's audible at freeway speeds, low speeds, virtually any speed, even with the stereo on. The car is running fine and I'm busy, so I've decided to buck up for a "Dealer Oil Change" the next time she's due and schedule them to check the whine at that time. Both prior repairs are inside the yearlong warranty zone, and I'm inside the bumper-to-bumper.

stevesrl

Robarsan,

I appreciate your responding back. I wish you and your vehicle the best.

Key take away from your experience is:

You never had any whines from your propeller shaft and never had it replaced. This contradicts that the propeller shaft center bearing failure increases vibration going to the differential and thus damages the differential.

stevesrl

CowboyRL,

If your noise is from a wire/piece of antenna touching something it should not be, the pitch of the "un-grounded" sound will change directly with rpms.

stevesrl

As I have become familiar with the sound, I have noticed that it is always there. It does 70% of the time...

When cold, initial 1-2 miles, 40 mph, whirs (wind/mechanical sound). Wife heard it last night and said it sounded like a bird. After 1-2 miles you can faintly hear it but you have to know what to listen for.

I strongly urge you to leave your car overnight with dealer and let him take it out cold (ride with him). Test your self that you can consistently reproduce the noise and under what conditions.

If your under warranty, I'd take these post to the dealer and push, push, push, for resolution. Particularly a new differential. Get it while you can. You seem to have the noise that some have posted on and had differential replaced to fix.

stevesrl

2007Acurarl,

Key take away from your experience:

You have a 2007 which absolutely has the engineering change to the propeller shaft. This tells me that the propeller shaft is not the cause of your differential noise.

stevesrl

Another example where propeller shaft was replaced but still has the differential noise.

stevesrl

Now, here's the rub: I now have a high pitched whine that's audible at freeway speeds, low speeds, virtually any speed, even with the stereo on. The car is running fine and I'm busy, so I've decided to buck up for a "Dealer Oil Change" the next time she's due and schedule them to check the whine at that time. Both prior repairs are inside the yearlong warranty zone, and I'm inside the bumper-to-bumper.[/quote]

Ballinger,

Thank you very much for your full response. Your post are so interesting because you are the only one that has have both replaced.

Now I am floored you have the high pitched wine.

Guy's, there is too much inconsistency to determine patterns.

All I know is

I will be replacing the shaft just in case it does do harm to the differential.

I am not convinced that the high pitched whine... Which is most prevalent at 70-75 mph-but also exist from 40-80 mph and sounds like "ungrounded" or "static noise" is the tell tale sign of the propeller shafts center bearing going out. This is because of Ballingers experience.

Ballinger please please go for the oil change and get all the information you can. I hope it is from the same dealer that changed the shaft and differential (he knows your history).

I hate to speculate but I would not be surprised if they change your rear drive axles.

Just throwing this out there. It seems to me the whine is indicative of an electrical problem...Hence, the ungrounded/static type of noise existing at 70 mph.

Look forward to your dealer's feedback and I would not stop until they identified and fixed it.

CowboyRL

This is true, but the sound is most prevalent at around 70. I'm really not even sure my noise is at all related, so I'm hoping the sound will go away this week when I take her to the shop.

Surafiel

Surafiel: Another differential post replacement. He said he had a “mechanical noise” 20-40 mph and after driving a couple of miles it would go away.

Surafiel please update us on how you are doing.

They misdiagnosed mine. They replaced the differential at a tune of 5000. It is still making the mechanical noise for the first two miles of driving. I really need to take it back and have them review where the noise is coming from. I hope they don't replace rear diff again.

sargeant

I have a whine but its only on acceleration and if I get the gas pedal at the "sweet spot" and stick the RPM's in the range when I first hear it I can keep it there. Sounds like it comes from the right side of the car, possible the front. You can really hear it bounce off walls if your driving near them. I have to roll down the passenger window to really hear it good.

I've ridden with Techs before for it and they haven't been able to pin point the problem or where its coming from yet. One said it might be the air intake. Is this a possibility really with the stock intake?

I've already had the shaft replaced as a tech driving my car the first time decided to do that as a fix.

rlerman

I can't tell if it's the differential, really hard to hear where its coming from. I hear it only within the first few minutes the car is cold, starting at 30 mph while accelerating. There's no loss of performance and if I accelerate past 40, it goes away.

No sense in bringing it to the dealer, they'll never hear it in any meaningful way. Besides, I'm good for another 3 years/40k miles on my warranty so if it's going to cause a problem, it should happen by then.

getakey

I just starting experiencing the Whir issue. I have 104K on 2005. About to go in for the 105K service.
The sound only appeared recently, but not sure if that is because we have just recently go a cold spell in SF, CA area. I have rearely driven car in less than 45 degree weather until lately. When I first heard it, I thought is was a strange sound from the radio, because it comes and goes so quickly, i.e., it is in a very narrow rpm range.
Its a fairly loud noise and to me it comes from the center front, hence my thought that it was the radio. Like others have said, it goes away after a few miles of driving.
I've read the thread, and have not seen that there is a definitive fix for this. Is that correct?

stevesrl

Let's attempt to decipher.

For explanation purposes let's assume the whirring sound at 20-40 mph that disappears after a few miles of driving is coming from the differential and the continuous whining sound at highway speeds 65-70 is coming from the propeller shaft.

Differential

On three occasions differentials were replaced and this yielded 2 successes.

In 4 instances the whirring sound was reported and the differential was not replaced and the whirring sound continued.

Conclusions: Whir=Diff.=Change Diff.

Propeller Shaft

On 3 occasions the propeller shaft was changed and yielded 1 success.

At first glance it is definitely not conclusive that the whine is solved by replacing the propeller shaft. However, additional information can be searched to show that the whining noise is from the propeller shaft (this and other forums) and additionally a TSB exists.

Conclusions: Whine=Propeller shaft=Change Shaft

Summary

Both the noises do not immediately result in abnormal operation of the assumed related components. Long term affect can not be predicted and extensive research and testing would have to be determined to come to any meaningful conclusions.

If I were under warranty and had either noise, I would push the dealership to change anything they are willing to...Just as a precaution.

If I were out of warranty and had an 05-06, I would strongly consider changing the propeller shaft to eliminate any negative interaction effects between the propeller shaft/differential. Additionally, a TSB exist regarding the center bearing within the propeller shaft.

I am struggling very hard with spending $1,350 and DIY the propeller shaft because I can stand the whine. I just don't want to harm the differential by not replacing the propeller shaft. This of course is not definite and hopefully fellow Acuraziners post, providing dealer input, will clarify. We will see and I'll advise if/when I change out the propeller shaft.

It should be noted that I was definitely going to replace the propeller shaft before I started this thread. Now I am pretty much confused. I will not replace the differential until it is inoperable.

highlymotivated

Excellent post and point Steve. I had taken my 05 RL to the dealership several times last winter because of the whine, hoping to have the problem fixed under warranty.

Unfortunately, the service techs never heard the whine and, because of that, the problem went unresolved. I was told to bring the car back this winter if the whine came back and that's exactly what I did when the noise reappeared.

The service manager called the next day saying that they had driven the car but hadn't heard the aforementioned noise. It wasn't until I went to the dealership today and drove the car with the manager and the service tech, that they were able to hear the noise.

Bottom line: if your dealership is having issues reproducing the noise, drive the car with them.

rmjse

I too have this issue. My '05 RL was built in November '04, so I know this has to be the issue. As soon as I hit 35mph - 40mph, I get a whining/whistling sound from my center console.

Whats strange is that it only happens in between these speeds. If I'm going 34 or 41mph, it wont happen. Really annoying sound. I can have my radio volume on the highest and I would still be able to hear it.

myronf

Add another one to the list.. My 06 has the same problem and the dealer will install a new prop shaft for me next wk.

Arizacura

I have an 05 with 101,000 miles. The whining or whistling just started about 3000 miles ago. It startsa bout 44 mph after car is warmed up. Continues until I am back down to about 35 mph. It doesnt stop, get louder, or quieter on increasing speeds. Continues in neutral at same speeds. The sound is more like the sound of a loose belt (high pitched whistle), just not rpm related. Unfortunatley, I am not under the class action suit on the odometer increase that would extend warranty to 105k. I have taken it to a local Japanese car Shop for diagnostics, but they couldnt hear it to well. I will take it to dealer for next oil change and get their opinion. I have heard temperature has an effect (below 50) but it occurs on mine at 75 degrees. Any other high mileage RLs? What should I expect. I love the car, not the cost to repair.

drolds72

Another $1850 driveshaft bearing bites the dust. Being replaced under my extended warranty. Best $900 I have spent! my howling was evident in the first few miles between 33 and 39 mph. Also getting my wiper linkage replaced under the TSB to improve blade pressure.

neuronbob

Hey Arizacura, welcome to AZ!

Take your car to the dealer. I had a similar whine in my RL, albeit at lower speeds. The dealer knew right away what was going on and immediately ordered a propeller shaft. The whine went away afterward. Too lazy to look up my long thread on the topic, however.

robarsan

Since I am one of the few who had the differential replaced, I wanted to clarify the noise I was hearing. It reminded me of a relatively high pitched tuning fork. Since the noise hasn't returned since the replacement a year ago I figure it's safe to assume the correlation of that noise and the differential. HTH

rmjse

Hey guys,

I really want to take my car to the dealer and try to force them to fix it for free. My car is out of warranty. I have a third party warranty, but it won't cover this issue.

My question is: Is there anything I can take with me as proof that Acura is aware of this issue in '05-'06 models? To kind of push the dealer into replacing the propeller shaft. Where is the TSB? I can't seem to find it in the Bob's tsb link.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks

Chas2

There is an Acura ServiceNews bulletin on this....Page 3 of the May 2008, which you can also find in the garage

Whine, Whistle, or Howl Between 30 and 40 MPH

Currently Applies To: ’05–08 RL

A bad propeller shaft center support bearing can
cause an annoying whine, whistle, or howl if you’re
driving between 30 and 40 mph and the bearing is
cold.

To check for a bad center support bearing, here’s
what you need to do:
1. Raise the vehicle on a lift, and make sure that it’s
securely supported.
2. Have someone start the engine, shift into Drive,
and slowly accelerate until the speedometer
reads between 30 and 40 mph.
3. While standing under the center support bearing,
use a stethoscope to listen for noise coming from
the bearing.
• If you hear noise coming from the bearing,
replace the propeller shaft. Refer to pages
16-42 thru 16-45 of the ’05–08 RL S/M.
(Online, enter keyword PROPELLER and
select Propeller Shaft Removal and
Propeller Shaft Installation from the list.)
• If the bearing is quiet, continue with normal
troubleshooting.

fiya

Ironic, I'm sitting at my dealer, brought my RL for this exact same problem, will be interested to hear what they tell me after reading the TSB. Will post results.

JPSMAN

You can always request a "goodwill" repair. It will need a special approval, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

medrxman

Obviously this whine.howl sound is prevelant in MOST 05-06 RLs. Basically the sound is only heard at 30 to 40 mph in cold weather.

Therefore those owners of RLs in warmer climates will never hear the sound. If this is really an issue we, as RL owners should be able to create a class action to have all the RLs propeller shaftes removed or at least tested.


Does anyone know of a failed propeller shaft???

fiya

Dealer wasn't able to road test to my car because it was snowing here in NY, have a follow up appointment, will post results.

suppi69

I am also having both of these noises but haven't had any repairs performed yet. The main noise is the sound that it makes when it is cold at about 20-30 mph and only lasts for about 1-2 miles. i have laos noticed the other noise at higher speeds but it is not as loud or frequent.

suppi69

I am very interested to hear your results : ) i am looking at getting rid of this car if this is also going to be a problem. I love this car but it has really been a P.O.S.

suppi69

Was this at no charge?

CadiGTi

I noticed the whine yesterday for the 1st time after my car sat in a parking lot for 2 hours. My RL made a whine for the 1st 2-3 miles between 25-30mph. Then it went away. At first I thought it was emergency vehicles off in the distance, then realized it was my car.

Today I paid careful attention. It does not make the noise in the am after being parked in my 45-50 degree garage at night. It did do it after sitting in a parking lot again today. Pretty much the same thing as last night, except it seemed to be more pronounced as I decelerated, whine comes in from 30mph down to about 25mph or so then goes away after a few miles.

Car goes in Friday to Acura for service. I will have them check it out. 2006 RL CMBS with 85k very pampered miles and exclusive Acura dealer service. If it is a major costly/catastrophic issue and Acura does not assist, I will trade the car in for another make. Hopefully it won't be a major issue!

CadiGTi

I just pulled out my Acura warranty booklet. My 2006 RL was purchased March 2008 as a CPO with 4k miles on it.

The Acura POWERTRAIN Warranty covers the driveshafts, propeller shafts, differential, etc.....the New Car Powertrain warranty extends to 6 years / 70k miles AND for CPO cars to 7 years / 100k total miles! Thank you Honda Motors!

The build date of my RL was May 2006.

Ed

2007AcuraRL

Kind of blows that Acura is yet again having drivetrain issues. First it was the dreaded trannys on the 2nd Gen TL, and now this crap on the RL. Given the number of people chimming in on this issue, its not an isolated issue, but a design flaw just like the TL tranny was (poor design of the internal lubrication causing 2nd gear clutch pak to fail). I suppose with the RL it remains unknown whether its just a noise (annoyance) issue or if some part eventually fails if the problem is left uncorrected.

myronf

my driveshaft was replaced last wk in my 06 with 38k mi. All is quiet now.

poppintec

i think a recall should be issued there is way to many cases for it to be coincidental.....I also feel that it is complete bs that Acura doesn't reach it out to its flagship customers who obviously believe and invest in the brand