ceb

I guess you've never driven on snows. Modern snows are not noisy nor do they wear quickly on dry pavement. Heat wears the tires and driving them in the summer will speed wear - a lot - but driving in cold weather is perfectly fine.

neoshi

I have and you don't think driving on dry pavement causes heat?

CrimsonElan

In the weekend ski case, you can always pack up a set of snow chains/cables, even better traction than the snow tire (on the snow only). Yes, I know put them on/take them off is PIA.

cudfoo

Just had 2 feet of snow this weekend and my '16 RDX handled it fine. Going up my steep driveway without issue. Just came from a tsx sport wagon(FWD) - was basically a sled in the snow. No comparison. Great car though... Also recently has a Subaru Outback and it was better in the snow for sure. Great in fact. Thing is the other 98% of the time I was driving a Subaru Outback. Nice car but not a '16 RDX. So i guess it comes down to what you're looking for. If you're mostly driving on paved roads std awd with OEM tires is a huge upgrade over FWD with OEM tires. If driving in the snow is the #1 priority than the Subaru\VW AWD systems are better.

neoshi

Yup, that's what I do (unless the vehicle doesn't allow it, like the Subaru). Used to actually haul up winter wheels with snow tires in a basket and change them in a parking lot lol. Got too old for that crap though!

Danny Boy

The manner they tested the 2015 CR-V (with all season tires) is very abusive. It is hard to watch cars bottom out like that. No owner would drive a CR-V like that intentionally. Nonetheless, it demonstrates that the traction of the CR-V in the snow is more than adequate.

Here is an “off road” test for a 2016 RDX. Note that all cars including a Jeep/Land Rover failed the climb at the last hill. Only SUV made it was an Infiniti QX80.


IMO driving in snowy/icy conditions, a set of snow tires is a good safety measure for yourself as well as other drivers.

JACN

That's right, I didn't, thisaznboi88 did. Your point about AWD not making a difference on snow tires was proven wrong!

He PWNED you!

The only thing I did was show how B.S. The CRV on rollers, video you posted was ... well.... BS! The one I posted shows it does send power to the rears and it handles more than adequate in conditions that normal CR-V drivers would never put their cars through.

RDX10

How old are you? Who still talks like that? Pawned? What?

No he never "pawned" me. Can you or can you not read? I stated that the rear wheels on the RDX SYSTEM don't kick on like the manufacturer is intending. I only mentioned the crv because it has the same system as the rdx. That has absolutely nothing to do with 2wd vs awd vs snows vs all seasons. Yet you continue to post a bunch of irrelavant crap to my point and say I am "pawned". How does posting a video of A DIFFERENT CAR with snow tires somehow beat my point about THE RDX awd system not functioning properly? Again the only reason I mentioned the crv was because it has the same awd system. I am an AWD junkie, love awd, always support and always will support awd, so you don't need to argue the merits of awd to me. Can I preface or is it now post-face this with I have snows on my rdx? And last but not least, if we want to get nitty gritty, the video he posted was snows vs summers, not all seasons. So still irrelevant to the argument.

And no that video is not b.s. The same company took a 2013 crv and it acted as intended. The 2014 did not and neither did the 2012 they originally tested. But I am not affiliated with the company whatsoever, beleive what you like.

Thanks but play again.

JACN

Are you even reading my posts? He PWNED you about the winter tires comment. I didn't even mention anything about the RDX's drive system.

That "video of a different car", didn't even have snow tires. It was using FACTORY ALL SEASONS! And that video was in response to your posting a video of "the different car" that failed a roller test.

You're very confused at this point so let me unconfuse you here. There are 2 threads of comments:

1 - You got PWNED (look it up in urban slang websites) about saying that a FWD car with winters is no different than an AWD with winters.
2 - You posted that the CR-V AWD system failed the roller test because the rear wheels don't engage which I countered with a real world snow test of a CR-V showing the rear wheels are engaging just fine.

That's it, I have no idea what other stuff you're rambling about. I think you're replying to me when you really want to reply to someone else that you're also having an argument with in this thread.


I'm done. This thread is going downhill and I'm not going to contribute to that any longer. Go ahead, have the last word. I'm not going to bother dignifying it with a reply.

skabei

What happened to this thread?
JACN you're the first one to start making this personal so please stop.

Comfy

This is how all threads related to AWD systems end...

RDX10

Thank you.

Puma Jim

I always had front wheel drive Honda accords before I bought my 16 RDX advance. To me there is a big difference with this AWD verses front wheel drive even though only 40% power goes to the rear. It even got much better when I recently bought snow tires! We prefer driving the RDX in snow more then my four wheel drive truck

JACN

I did say: "This thread is going downhill and I'm not going to contribute to that any longer." Didn't I?

rgpolson

When I see these threads makes me so glad I live in central Texas and can run summer performance tires all year round.

Any hint of ice and whole world down here shuts down and you can just kick you feet up in front of the fireplace.

And yes, we are wusses...

nist7

Basically moral of story is:

Don't live in snow-prone areas.

OR

Buy a car/truck/jeep with a real 4WD/4x4 and diff lock.

OR

Get snow tires and accept that any of these modern "AWD" is not the savior to snow-driving problem. Many times FWD with proper snow tires > AWD with crap tires. People way way under-estimate importance of tires.

ceb

...or oil change intervals that deteriorate into "what is better amSOIL or Royal Poopie"... or any cold air intake thread...or...

RDX10

Which absolutely sucks because some really good threads go splat very quickly. And always right when they start to get good and get somewhere.

youngTL

Can you guys explain to me how exactly the RDX system is different than SH-AWD in the TLX (and the old RDX for that matter). I know the old RDX had the electromagnetic clutch packs. The TLX has wet clutch systems, but still feeds power to the back wheels unlike the example from the '16 RDX earlier in the thread. Does the RDX system have the ability to completely disconnect the front and rear, so that the front wheels are able to get 100% of the power sometimes?

I know the TLX SH-AWD is not able to disconnect fully. Its absolute minimum is 90F/10R and only at highway speeds. At slower speeds it acts more like 70/30 or 66/44 (on acceleration in a straight line) and 30F/70R power on in a turn or when a wheel is slipping on ice.

RDX10

The SH-AWD in the old rdx and possibly tlx (not as familiar with tlx to be honest) was exactly how you describe it. Always sending a minimum of 10% to the rear under all conditions, with 70% in cornering and 45% in fast straight line acceleration. Though the old RDX can run in 100% fwd but only with very very light throttle input. Or at least the MID displays only the front wheels getting power when I do that. The new 2013+ RDX is capable of sending 100% of the power to the front, and I am arguing that it is doing that even in awd trim when it should be sending power to the rear...but beat that horse dead .

The old system didn't rely on the clutch packs to connect the power to the rear wheels, but the rear shawd electromagnetic unit acted more like a central differential does in audi and subaru vehicles. Whereas now in the 2013+ rdx, it relies solely on the clutch pack and that is why it doesn't send very much power back there (to save mechanical wear). But the old system could and wouldn't cause wear because the wear was evenly divided between the different components.

The system on the new tlx and mdx (at least 2016+ mdx) is really more like a generation 2.0 SHAWD except this time acura was a little quite and hushed about it and quietly changed it to where it can now overdrive the rear wheels 2.7% vs the old 1.7% and is now wet clutches vs electromagnetic clutches. I remember reading somewhere that the new system wasn't as capable as the old one. This may be why Acura has been so hushed about it.

Btw hello from a fellow Edmontonian

youngTL

Well hello there!

And yeah it's interesting. I wonder what the RDX AWD system is doing to disconnect entirely from the rear wheels. It has an electromagnetic clutch still right and a wet clutch, it's basically VTM-4 (or it actually is VTM-4). If it is, then the way it's designed is that it can't handle having too much torque go to the back.

There are some advantages to the new SH-AWD system. Even though the design is closer to how VTM-4 was than how the old SH-AWD was, it's way more durable than VTM-4 and has some differences in the design that allow torque vectoring with the wet clutches. They've done something different such that it is unable to fully disconnect and I don't know what that is. But it definitely handles huge torque numbers all the time. In the old TL SH-AWD 6MT, you could pop the clutch at 5k RPM and do a front wheel burnout and get nothing to the rear, so I think it could fully disconnect as well, but I am not sure of that either (the rears could be getting a tiny bit of power).

I've also noticed this new version of SH-AWD is a lot more responsive than the old versions. It pretty much directs the power before you make the power, based on sensor inputs. It's totally seamless. It doesn't feel like it's reacting, more that it's being proactive, at least from a handling standpoint. I have also noticed that when it's cold out, more power goes to the rear wheels all the time.

RDX10

The way the rdx manages to disconnect the rear axle is quite simple really. It uses a multi-plate viscous coupling attached to the rear differential to send power to the rear. Bascially an electronic input causes the plates to touch each other. The plates are constantly bathed in fluid. This same fluid allows for some slippage to occur which is why you don't get binding like you do in a true 4x4 setup. So as long as the plates are not touching, no power goes to the rear. This is how you get 100% front wheel drive.

The new rdx is not vtm-4 either, it is just a generic crv awd system. No torque vectoring across read diff possible except via traction control.

Interesting that you mention it sending power to the rear before you make any power, I had a 2016 mdx loaner for a few days and took it down groat road (you know what I am talking about), for people who are wondering, groat road is a super windy road we have here in the city. Well anyways, looking at the MID, I could see the mdx sending nearly 100% power to the outer rear wheel even as the curve was just starting and not necessarily at the maximum point of the curve. This was really really cool, the 2007 mdx I test drove was also responsive, but not the same as the 2016 mdx. I think having wet clutches allows for some more friction to build up, so they could tune it more aggressively maybe?

I loved that it was sending all that power with my foot at a normal level on the throttle. I.e didn't require me to dump in the throttle like I have to on my rdx.

Joe Las Vegas

At 8:40, they only showed the front left wheel spinning, I would have liked to see all of them in action to see if the power was transferred to the rear wheels instantly and smoothly, and to see if TC was making all 4 wheels spin and no just end up with 2 wheels spinning, one in front and one in the rear since those are open diffs. They should have done the test on ice to see how well the AWD and TC work.

youngTL

Oh, so the multi-plate coupling isn't present on the new versions of SH-AWD because it's not necessary, right?

And the fact that the RDX gets a CR-V AWD system...no words!

Groat road is fun! I have a buddy who lost a CRX on that road. As far as SH-AWD is concerned in the TLX and new MDX, that's exactly what I experience too. It sends the power back there before you need it. I think this is both due to the design of the system, AND the fact that it uses the electronic throttle, sensors, and other stuff to decide how much is going back there before you make the power.

And yeah, I have also noticed that too, my TLX can send all the power it needs to in large percentages without having to floor the gas. Even light throttle applications are torque vectored.

I'm kind of curious if the front camera secretly is providing some input. That would be pretty far fetched but maybe.

neoshi

You guys may find this interesting (talks about old sh-awd vs new, which, btw the 2016 Pilot has despite not being called SH-AWD on the mainstream side): http://blogs.youwheel.com/2015/03/31...sive-analysis/

wackjum

I watched the Swedish video. To say the AWD system is "doing nothing" is incorrect. Actually the system is transferring enough torque to the rear wheels to counteract the slope. That's how the CRV doesn't roll back on an incline without the brakes applied.

Now it didn't supply enough power to overcome the slope and it is clearly not designed to be as robust as the Ford Kuga they also tested. These are legitimate concerns for a vehicle aimed in the near luxury class. But I just thought it was appropriate to point out this small fact.

RDX10

The multi-plate clutch wasn't there on the old version of sh-awd either. It isn't needed, and the new one works like a normal open differential with the dual clutches making it act like a lsd or active differential.

I agree, no words for that here either.

I get to take groat road daily to and from school, I LOVE it. Especially when it is clear late at night. Though they periodically have radar there. Yikes sorry about your buddy, I always try and take it easy, sometimes get too close to the cement dividers for my comfort and my shawd requires me to dig deep into the throttle to get any power to go back there...can get dangerous! So when I drove the 2016 mdx, I loved that it was sending huge amounts of power to the rear without me needing to dig deep.

Well acura had their gps linked to the climate control (that would be far fetched if they didn't admit it too). But I feel like they would have said something if it was happening like that. Would be brilliant.

I seen this a couple days ago. It is awesome, thank you for posting!

Well, the system is intended to send power to the rear when the front wheels don't have traction. Now if we want to argue on wording, it is doing "something" but since it isn't doing what is intended, it is techinically doing "nothing". Lol.

The ford kuga/escape has the exact same layout as the crv and rdx (i.e viscous multi-plate clutch) so it isn't any different in terms of hardware. But ford made it able to send more power to the read than the crv and rdx and clearly the crv and rdx aren't sending enough back there.

So to conclude "nothing" isn't exactly true, but "not enough" makes a better use of wording.

youngTL

The CR-V and RDX seem to disconnect the power early on too, whereas the Ford system holds it longer, and SH-AWD is continuous. Although as you get up to highway speed, SH-AWD does a little less (10-20%) until you toss it into a hard corner. This is probably to save wear on the clutches when they aren't needed to be passing as much torque, and to save fuel. I'm glad it's not 0% though. SH-AWD also seems to correct for crosswinds. I was driving on windy highway near Carstairs Alberta 2 weeks ago, and it was amazing. I just pointed the wheels straight and it compensated.

RDX10

Thats what I am arguing about. Then the fanbois came in and started throwing in snow vs all seasons. Then I got "pawned" at some point. It should be continuoud until you are unstuck, not give the good old college try and then say "oh nothing is happening, better just give up".

Yeah SHAWD is continuous and very capable. Probably the best transverse layout awd system on the market. Period. Think about it, why would you want or need power going to the rear at those speeds. The forward force is already strong enough. Wow didn't know about the compensation, cool!

I was on a patch of ice the other day, and it torque vectord and sent like all the power the the rear left wheel. It was the coolest thing, I totally didn't expect it

Comfy

It's so interesting to discuss about a system which we should have gotten but never got. :sigh:

JACN

I just have problems with guys with older models coming in here for the express reason to bash the new model.

I'm not against people expressing their oppinions, but in this case is being done with malice. I've seen his other posts in the 2nd gen forum; he's a 2nd gen basher.

So when said individual got 2 facts wrong, one about tires and the other about the CRV, you can understand why its was thrown back in his face. And said individual just couldn't handle the rebuke.

That being said: I agree 100% about his SH-AWD comments though. It is better! But to say that the 2nd gen's AWD is junk, is just plain stupid!

RDX10

What is just plain stupid is to say that I am commenting with malice. Looool. Thats too funny. Attacking the 2G with malice would indicate that I have something to win but I obviously don't.

I am done trying to spoon feed you my argument, I wasn't proven wrong about tires or the crv. And loooooool at "couldn't handle the rebuke". I could and did handle it, but trying to talk to a 5 year old with their fingers in their ears is difficult so I gave up.

Thanks for your opinion!

RDX10

I couldn't edit and add this in,

BUT: I will admit that I am hard on the 2G rdx. Can't even try and say I am not. But not because I hate it, not because it is a "bad car", it isn't. It just isn't good enough to be a luxury vehicle. A lot of things are missing. That is my opinion, do I maybe poop on it too much? Yes, yes I do. But for the love of god. With malice? Lol no further comment on that.

ceb

Regardless of the quality of your comments, you look like a damn fool when you say "I'm taking my toys and going home" (post 89) and then come back and post in this thread. Who can take you seriously anymore?

carbonTSEX

I'll be taking the RDX up the pass to go boarding Feb. 8th and leaving my SH AWD TL at home though I did get to drive it in the snow last month and it was money. Everyone was sliding all over the road and the TL was unstoppable. Even more fun to have controlled snow drifts. That isn't the plan for the RDX though. It'll be the first time it sees snow. I'll report back on my experience.

WheelMcCoy

On a recent ski trip with friends, my family had the TSX Wagon with Michelin XIce Xi3 winter tires whereas my friends were in a Toyota RAV4 AWD with all season Dunlop ST30 tires.

Overnight, an ice storm came by and left a layer of ice on the driveway. Also mixed in was loose dirt and snow. The incline was about 25-30 degrees. It took our wagon 3 runs (traction control off, sport mode) to get up the driveway, the last one with me outside giving the wagon one little shove near the top.

The Toyota RAV4 got to the top on the first try. I saw wheels slip, but others gripped and kept the CUV going.

Intellectually, I know AWD -- even on ordinary tires -- climbs better than FWD with winters, and that my TSX Wagon has the advantage in black ice, stopping, and turning. Still, I was embarrassed as I often tout the benefits of winter tires. Eating humble pie now, but still knowing better.

Starflyer

What I don't get about this thread is that there is a whole passel of AWL drives out there that don't have Acura's SH-AWD and from what I've seen, they do alright in snow. So are all these RANTS saying the RDX is worse than almost any another AWD?

RDX10

SH-AWD is vastly superior to your standard slip and grip system. However no matter what wheel drive you have, you are going nowhere if your tires are shit. Plenty of people drive RWD cars with winter tires and get around very very easily and very well.

The argument that the 2G RDX has a worse slip and grip system is partially true. Partially true because the 2013-2015 RDX is only capable of sending a maximum of 25% to the rear wheels and only AFTER the front wheels slip which IMHO defeats the purpose of having AWD in the first place. Partially false because the 2016+ can send up to 45% to the rear making it much more useful and pobably as good as other partial awd systems.

In terms of normal day to day city driving, it really doesn't matter. The roads are mostly cleared and with good winter tires even rwd cars can make it through. It is only when you get into different situations that the strengths of different awd systens comes into play. Not all systens are created equally, obviously. If I were living out on an acreage or farm, or got severe snow fall (like we do here in most parts of Canada), I would never ever consider a fwd,rwd, or part time awd system because I like the extra capability and safety net of knowing my car can probably take me anywhere I want. But I am also aware that I could easily get around with any drivetrain setup with the proper tires.

So like I said before, it is partially true and partially false.

Comfy

Ha ha ha. Very true. .

RDX-Rick

I traded in a 2008 V6 RAV4 for my 2016 RDX.Both engines had similar horsepower and torque ratings. The difference in AWD systems, is that the RAV4 had a "Lock" button on the dash, which sent power to the rear axle even though there was no slippage detected at the front wheels.

When climbing a slippery slope, it is important to keep up the forward momentum and not apply so much torque that the wheels begin to spin. When the RDX front tires begin to spin, forward momentum is lost before the rear tires begin to apply force, and it becomes more difficult to get the vehicle moving again. On the other hand, the RAV4 is dividing engine torque to both axles, thereby reducing the likelihood of wheel spin, and preventing that loss of momentum. It also increases the likelihood that at least some of the 4 tires will be getting better traction than just 2 tires.

In the RAV4 this "rear lock" automatically disengages at 40 KMH to prevent drive-train damage. If the Lock button is not pushed, the RAV4 behaves just like the RDX.

Another small change is that the RAV's computer automatically activates the "Lock" when starting from a stop at full throttle. The RAV4 would never squawk the tires no matter how hard I pressed the accelerator. This small feature made me unbeatable at any impromptu read light challenge. In contrast the RDX will squeal the tires from the red light, which is a little embarrassing at times. I am experimenting with tire pressures to try and reduce the squeal.

When driving in deep snow, I never found any advantage to using the RAV4's Lock button, and I find the RDX to travel through deep snow just as well as the RAV4.