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Collision Mitigation Malfunction

 
Old 08-27-2017, 03:54 PM
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Collision Mitigation Malfunction

CM on and I'm at a stop light.
The light turns green, the two cars move forward.Then I go about 10 ft and the CM comes on with its lights and alarm and my RDX stops dead.The car behind me nails me.The car in front of me didn't stop and was at least 6ft ahead of me.
Called Acura and a case was opened up with a so called 'specialist' will call me tomorrow.The rep said to bring the RDX to the dealer to check for the issue.No schit!
Of course, they won't find anything.
I have the CM turned off again.I don't trust anything to do with the system braking which includes the Adaptive Cruise in this RDX.I don't think the dealer can say anything that would satisfy me on auto brake safety.I want something in writing that its safe using the features but that won't happen.This could have happened on a highway.Cop at the scene said this problem is very rare but has been seen before.
Googled and the same issue was happening with '14 MDX's and an another Acura model.48K vehicle recall.The system would active braking with a car in front moving forward.

The only positive is I was hit in the back and that person is 100% at fault.Poor guy.

Any suggestions?

Dealer visit and loaner hopefully tomorrow after I get a repair estimate from an Acura certified body shop.I don't want any issue when returning the leased RDX.
I'm so glad this vehicle is a lease.

Last edited by colt427; 08-27-2017 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 08-28-2017, 05:33 PM
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Service adviser said the sensor may have been dirty.
I asked him where the sensor is in front.I couldn't find it in the grill like other vehicles.The service adviser couldn't find it either.
Inside rear view mirror area camera?

I have a claim with Acura.I should receive a call from the so called 'specialist' on the matter by tomorrow.
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Old 08-28-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by colt427 View Post
Service adviser said the sensor may have been dirty.
I asked him where the sensor is in front.I couldn't find it in the grill like other vehicles.
The radar sensor is located in the grill behind the Acura logo. That is why that part of the grill is made of plastic, so the radio waves can pass through. ( well that as well as plastic is cheaper than using aluminium)

The camera is located behind the rear view mirror, and faces forward.

Both the radar and camera are used in the Collision Mitigation System. The radar detects when your RDX is approaching other vehicles too quickly, and the camera detects pedestrian in your path.

When the radar waves become blocked, as I have experienced in a heavy rainfall, the radar will not receive any signal bounce-back from the vehicle ahead, and as a result it will not stop your RDX. So the theory about a dirty sensor is not reasonable explanation.

The situation you experienced may have been a complete malfunction, or it may have been that the RDX detected another vehicle or pedestrian in your path. You will probably never know for sure unless the problem re-occurs.

Sometimes when I am driving on city streets with sharp curves, my CMS warning will come on when the system detects a telephone pole directly in front of me. The system probably detects this as a pedestrian and it doesn't realize I will be turning before reaching that point. The owners manual says the system can also detect shadows as objects in your path. Direct sunlight can also make your camera blind to objects, but that should result in no braking being applied even when there is something in front of you.

A common complaint I have heard is when approaching a vehicle making a turn, an experienced driver will realize the other vehicle will be out of his lane by the time he gets there, and because a real driver can make those decisions he will not remove his foot from the accelerator. However the CMS only knows that the RDX is approaching a slow or stopped vehicle, and that a collision will occur if action is not taken, so it will activate the brakes. The system cannot predict what action will be taken by the other driver.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:05 AM
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I will go back to the dealer service today and tell them about the possible dirty sensor would cause the opposite effect.Another excuse was the EZ Pass toll transponder could be causing.I knew that one was BS.
Also going to call Acura back as of course I wasn't called back by the whatever 'specialist' as promised.

I talked to my salesman who talked to the GM and I was told they will see what the service dept says.I'll talk to them today also.
I'm looking for a new 3/10 lease with my same numbers.I thought I could maybe get a '17 leftover but they have none in stock.
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Old 08-29-2017, 09:11 AM
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So are you trying to trade your 16 for a 17 due to the accident?
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Old 08-29-2017, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by chickdr View Post
So are you trying to trade your 16 for a 17 due to the accident?
I couldn't care less about the accident and damage.It's a lease so the Carfax means nothing to me and the other driver is 100% at fault.
I don't like not using the sensing features for fear of another malfunction.
After this CM malfunction, would you trust the system with your wife and kids in the RDX?CM and ACC involve auto braking.
The cop even said I'm lucky this didn't happen on a highway.

Last edited by colt427; 08-29-2017 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by colt427 View Post
I don't like not using the sensing features for fear of another malfunction.
After this CM malfunction, would you trust the system with your wife and kids in the RDX?CM and ACC involve auto braking..
The thing is we don't know if the problem was caused by an electronic malfunction in your particular RDX, or if the problem was due to a set of circumstances that could occur in any RDX. At this point we don't know if the system activated because it sensed another vehicle or a pedestrian (one uses the radar sensor and the other uses the camera).

For example if you were approaching a curve in the road, the system may have seen you headed for an object straight ahead, but it didn't know the road turned. Perhaps you accelerated quickly and the system assumed you might hit the car in front so it applied the brakes.

Here are a couple of other odd things I have discovered with the system in addition to my earlier post.....

Sometimes when I am behind someone in slow traffic, and I am waiting to make a left turn, I will stomp on the accelerator when I see a break in oncoming traffic, but because the sensor sees the car only a few feet ahead, the engine will not provide any power and I can only complete my turn at idle speed which not only scares me, but most likely the oncoming driver.

When using ACC and I eventually catch up to the car ahead, I will step on the accelerator lightly. With your foot on the accelerator, ACC will be overridden and you can control the speed normally with your right foot. This allows me to close the gap between the two vehicles in preparation for passing. The problem occurs when I accidentally release the throttle entirely which causes ACC to activate again. When ACC senses that I am only one car length behind the vehicle in front, it will apply the brakes in order to increase the separation between the vehicles. Of course this is annoying when you want to pass, and even more annoying to the driver following me. Because of this "feature" I will usually turn off ACC manually when preparing to pass.

The point being, the system may seem to react in an unusual manner at times, but usually there is an explanation that may not seem obvious to some owners. I'm not saying these unusual behaviors are always a good thing, only that they are by design and not actual malfunctions. Since they are by design, the dealership will never find a problem with the system.

Last edited by RDX-Rick; 08-29-2017 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 02:05 PM
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ACC works flawlessly.No complaints at all..

I didn't use the CM early on because I found it to be too sensitive.
Turned it back on and weeks later this incident.

I've experienced the shortcomings of the CM and learned to deal with them.However, the CM stopped my RDX for absolutely no reason about 10 ft after stepping on the gas.The car in front of me was at least 10-12 ft away when it happened.A pure malfunction of the CM system.I can't trust CM on this vehicle ever again.A bit nervous about using the ACC too.

I didn't expect Honda to do anything but I took a shot.
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Old 09-03-2017, 11:44 AM
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This is serious.

Has anyone else had malfunctions?
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Old 09-03-2017, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by barnowl View Post
This is serious.

Has anyone else had malfunctions?
Acura rep told me I'm the only one and they will document it. I won't use the CM anymore.
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Old 09-03-2017, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by colt427 View Post
Acura rep told me I'm the only one and they will document it. I won't use the CM anymore.
This is what is so scary with all these automatic systems these days. There is a fine line
between aiding and hampering. See I like blind spot detection, however some cars have blind spot detection coupled with lane keep assist and therefore in situations where the car thinks an accident is going to occur it will pull you back into your lane even if the car is far enough back for you to make the transition safely (some blind systems are way over sensitive). Let's say your lane is ending/construction ahead/didn't see a stopped car and you try and turn out of your lane but the system stops you?

Also look at new Volvos that have cross-traffic prevention where on left handed turn that crosses the uncoming lane at an intersection and a car is coming, it will apply brakes and stop you from turning. Well nearly everyday I get into situations where the light turns yellow and a car is behind me and try and go just as the light turns red but in the oncoming lane a car is fast approaching (but intending to stop/forced to stop), will my car stop and get me rear ended in an intersection?

Something to keep in mind for your case specifically is that I believe collision mitigation only comes on under a certain speed (someone correct me if I am wrong on this) so it won't automatically stop your car at speed. Oh and I also had a 2016 MDX loaner a couple years ago with the CMBS and I remember at one point at an intersection it auto braked even though I felt there was sufficient distance between me and the guy in front of me. But I remember that day the guy in front moved and then suddenly stopped again (possibly had someone infront of him, I don't recall right now)...is it possible that happened to you as well which somehow tricks the car into thinking something is wrong?
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:58 AM
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2017 MDX Accident

Our Collision Mitigation System activated falsely when the car in front of us made a right turn off the main road. We were at least three car lengths behind and had slowed to about 20 mph. When I shifted my foot from the brake to the accelerator the system activated, stopping the MDX immediately in traffic on a road with a 35 mph speed limit. We were rear-ended by a Jeep Wrangler traveling at least 35 mph, and it totaled the MDX. The experience was frightening since the car took control completely! The best thing I can say is that the MDX protected me and my wife in the crash; we were not injured. The policemen at the scene said they had seen this situation before in other vehicles — not just Acura. We will definitely shut it off in future vehicles. NOTE: We have purchased Acura vehicles exclusively since 1990. My experience with Acura Client Relations so far has involved one phone call with a promise of a follow-up call.
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Old 11-26-2017, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by dhworley View Post
Our Collision Mitigation System activated falsely when the car in front of us made a right turn off the main road. We were at least three car lengths behind and had slowed to about 20 mph. When I shifted my foot from the brake to the accelerator the system activated, stopping the MDX immediately in traffic on a road with a 35 mph speed limit. We were rear-ended by a Jeep Wrangler traveling at least 35 mph, and it totaled the MDX. The experience was frightening since the car took control completely! The best thing I can say is that the MDX protected me and my wife in the crash; we were not injured. The policemen at the scene said they had seen this situation before in other vehicles — not just Acura. We will definitely shut it off in future vehicles. NOTE: We have purchased Acura vehicles exclusively since 1990. My experience with Acura Client Relations so far has involved one phone call with a promise of a follow-up call.
Scary, indeed.
I had a case number and talked to a couple of he Acura reps but they will stroke you but also tell you they will do nothing but record the incident.
I'm surprised insurance companies don't take notice of these incidents few or not.
I've read of a couple of similar incidents on a CR-V forum.

I still have the RDX and I recently bought a '17 CR-V Touring.The RDX CM can be turned off and it stays off.Where the CR-V can be turned off but has to be turned off every time you start the vehicle.
I will say the CR-V is nowhere as sensitive as the RDX when it comes to the braking lighting.So because of the CR-V's less sensitivity, I'm actually leaving the CM function on.Though, a false reading stop possibility is always in the back of my mind.

Last edited by colt427; 11-26-2017 at 11:17 AM.
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Old 11-27-2017, 08:38 PM
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sorry ro hear that but that's why we got a base model without any of the bells and whistles, it's still up to the driver to control their car
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Old 11-28-2017, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by srpuywa View Post
sorry ro hear that but that's why we got a base model without any of the bells and whistles, it's still up to the driver to control their car
At least in Canada even base model includes CMBS as standard feature from 2016, can't buy RDX without it
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Old 11-28-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by colt427 View Post
I couldn't care less about the accident and damage.It's a lease so the Carfax means nothing to me and the other driver is 100% at fault.
I don't like not using the sensing features for fear of another malfunction.
After this CM malfunction, would you trust the system with your wife and kids in the RDX?CM and ACC involve auto braking.
The cop even said I'm lucky this didn't happen on a highway.

I could of of sworn I had an AI incident when the car was new to me and since then I either turn the cm and lkas off or have learned to be a more cautious driver and use the turn signals when enabled.

i was on a 4-lane highway at the speed limit in the right hand lane when an additional lane opened up into 5-lanes to the right.
the lane markings did not start until another 300ft.
My exit was another 1/4 mile away but the sensors picked up my drifting to the right and out of the lane markings I was in and the rdx began to shudder to a stop on the highway!...the system acted like I was drifting into a black hole off a cliff.
i tried to replicate this incident and found using the turn signal the rdx has acted normally so far.
Just a little unnerving

Last edited by Himecraig; 11-28-2017 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 12-02-2017, 12:19 PM
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imagine what these vehicles will be like in 10 years.
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:16 AM
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I've had my '16 RDX Advanced for about 2.5 years.. Got it May '15 and don't put many miles on it (12,000) so far. I have a few occasional brake lights come on, almost all due to someone slowing to make a right turn. When the light comes on, I take my foot off the "go" pedal and get ready to brake if needed. In almost every case, the vehicle turning right has moved far enough right so that I couldn't hit them if I tried.

However, the day before yesterday I did have a "auto" brake event. I was slowing behind a car and I guess I didn't put my foot on the brake pedal quickly enough. The brakes locked up and I suddenly stopped. The vehicle behind me came very close to hitting me in the rear. This all happened so suddenly I'm not sure exactly what happened. I had the sense that my brakes were locked until I put my foot on the brake pedal at which time the brakes release andI was able to step on the gas and move forward.

Re the lane keeping feature, I think it's great and makes a highway trip much more relaxing, keeping the vehicle in the current lane. However, around 65 MPH it seems to need a little bit of help in a normal interstate turn or curve in the road. No complaints about the adaptive cruise control. According to the onboard trip computer I get 28-29 MPG on the highway at 60-65 MPH.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Starflyer View Post
However, the day before yesterday I did have a "auto" brake event. I was slowing behind a car and I guess I didn't put my foot on the brake pedal quickly enough. The brakes locked up and I suddenly stopped. The vehicle behind me came very close to hitting me in the rear. This all happened so suddenly I'm not sure exactly what happened. I had the sense that my brakes were locked until I put my foot on the brake pedal at which time the brakes release and I was able to step on the gas and move forward.
I've had the same issue just a couple of times with the brakes being applied at inappropriate times. The brakes don't lock. They go into the anti-skid mode. Hitting the brake pedal manually seems to turn that off, although it's hard to tell with the short periods of time involved. The system does seem to freak out more than it should at turning vehicles. I suppose it's because it sees their relative closure rate increasing rapidly. That's a tough problem for machine vision to solve unless they sense lateral motion. It'll be interesting to see how well self-driving cars handle that.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jcross1231 View Post
I've had the same issue just a couple of times with the brakes being applied at inappropriate times. The brakes don't lock. They go into the anti-skid mode. Hitting the brake pedal manually seems to turn that off, although it's hard to tell with the short periods of time involved. The system does seem to freak out more than it should at turning vehicles. I suppose it's because it sees their relative closure rate increasing rapidly. That's a tough problem for machine vision to solve unless they sense lateral motion. It'll be interesting to see how well self-driving cars handle that.
I guess I shouldn't have used the work "locked" in describing my sudden stop, but it felt like they locked. It all happened so quickly I'm not sure exactly what went down. I think you're right though that to release the brakes, I had to step on the pedal. I seem to remember trying to move, but was stuck until I tapped the brakes at which point I was then again able to continue my drive. I think it's a great safety feature and I'm sure the insurance people think the same thing.
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Old 12-05-2017, 06:26 AM
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While false alarms are annoying the opposite can be true too. Sometimes the system doesn't work at all.

My wife was just involved in a very low speed rear ender that damaged the lower front of her RDX and squashed the transmission oil cooler. She was at a yield sign behind another vehicle waiting for other traffic to pass. The other car started moving forward when it was clear and so did my wife but she was still looking over her shoulder when 'bam' she hit the car in front. She thinks she simply accelerated a little faster than the other driver. My wife says the CMS didn't beep, didn't apply brakes. I'm guessing the closing speed or vehicle speed or both were simply too low in this case but, bottom line, collision was not mitigated.

Cheers!
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Old 12-05-2017, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by dhworley View Post
Our Collision Mitigation System activated falsely when the car in front of us made a right turn off the main road. We were at least three car lengths behind and had slowed to about 20 mph. When I shifted my foot from the brake to the accelerator the system activated, stopping the MDX immediately in traffic on a road with a 35 mph speed limit. We were rear-ended by a Jeep Wrangler traveling at least 35 mph, and it totaled the MDX. The experience was frightening since the car took control completely! The best thing I can say is that the MDX protected me and my wife in the crash; we were not injured. The policemen at the scene said they had seen this situation before in other vehicles — not just Acura. We will definitely shut it off in future vehicles. NOTE: We have purchased Acura vehicles exclusively since 1990. My experience with Acura Client Relations so far has involved one phone call with a promise of a follow-up call.

Here is a link that tells you how to contact the NHSTA
https://www.nhtsa.gov/about-nhtsa/contact-us

We have had many Honda and Acura products and found them all to be good. I know someone with a 2014 MDX and is getting rid of it because of the autonomous systems and complexity of the car itself. Going back and fourth about paying for some significant maintenance on my car or upgrading and these stores make me want to keep what I have.
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Old 12-06-2017, 10:15 AM
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I had a box truck swerve into my lane on the highway when I going about 70. The cms jammed on the brakes full force. I said a quick prayer the the guy behind me was paying attention. He must have have been because he didn't hit me. I get fewer false alarms on the '17 RDX than I used to get on the '14 RL. Continuous improvement.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:42 AM
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My wife said she had an episode today. She was slowing down and had no concerns when the system suddenly intervened and slammed on the brakes. Her purse went flying.
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Old 12-07-2017, 05:03 PM
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So, the body shop and insurance company have worked out the parts/damage from my wife's very low speed rear ender that the much discussed anti collision system failed to avoid. Here's what you can expect if you bump into something:

Replace bumper cover w park sensor $369 (before paint)
Left Trim Bezel w fog lights $93.23
Clear Bra replacement $437.50 (I gave the dealer less than that for the original install)
Transmission Cooler $201.47
AC Condenser Assembly $133.00
Add a bunch lf labor for three stage paint, recharging the AC etc and the total is $1243.63

Bottom line, don't hit anything!

Cheers!
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Old 12-10-2017, 08:52 AM
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I went driving in the snow yesterday and the CM popped up a ton of false readings. Was the freaking snow flakes setting it off!? Talk about a sensitive system.
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Old 12-10-2017, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon2008RDX View Post
I went driving in the snow yesterday and the CM popped up a ton of false readings. Was the freaking snow flakes setting it off!? Talk about a sensitive system.
The front end didn't look like this, did it?

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Old 12-10-2017, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jcross1231 View Post
The front end didn't look like this, did it?

Uhm, Not that bad but did have some residual snow on it. Note to self… wipe off front of RDX when it’s snowing.
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Old 12-10-2017, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbon2008RDX View Post
Uhm, Not that bad but did have some residual snow on it. Note to self… wipe off front of RDX when it’s snowing.
You might be wiping it off a lot. That was about 30 miles of driving. I pretty much turn off the proximity warnings all the time, because they react to everything - car washes, garages, etc. You've got to keep the radar antenna clear, though. I got a face full of warnings about safety systems being compromised, etc., that were hard to get rid of.
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:05 AM
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Collision avoidance during head on?

Originally Posted by colt427 View Post
Acura rep told me I'm the only one and they will document it. I won't use the CM anymore.
my husband was involved in a near head on collision in his 2018 RDX a few weeks ago. The other driver was cited for being in his lane. My husband saw the other driver coming at him and tried to make an evasive maneuver to get out of his way, but he said he felt like he was in slow motion. He was able to get partially off the road and the other driver hit his driver side door at a high rate of speed and caused my husband’s RDX to rollover. My husband ALWAYS had his Acurawatch on, and while we are happy the vehicle saved his life, we are wondering in hindsight if the collision mitigation system actuated the brakes and slowed him causing him to have the “slow motion” feeling as he was trying to pull off the road. Has anyone else heard of something like this occurring?
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Old 02-07-2019, 08:39 AM
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Hi Phyllis,

I hope hubby is doing ok.

Most modern cars have a system that records about 30 seconds of driving. In the event of a crash, that information is logged and can be retrieved by police agencies and dealerships. You should contact your Acura dealer to see if they can retrieve that data that would show whether the car was applying brakes or whether the driver was. The data will also show speed, steering wheel angle and likely other info that will help reconstruct what happened.
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Old 02-07-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadgetjq View Post
Hi Phyllis,

I hope hubby is doing ok.

Most modern cars have a system that records about 30 seconds of driving. In the event of a crash, that information is logged and can be retrieved by police agencies and dealerships. You should contact your Acura dealer to see if they can retrieve that data that would show whether the car was applying brakes or whether the driver was. The data will also show speed, steering wheel angle and likely other info that will help reconstruct what happened.
He was miraculously unhurt physically but having trouble sleeping and experiencing anxiety when driving. I passed on your recommendation and he is going to check on getting access to the car again to get the reading. It was totaled and is in the impound lot of the wrecker service the highway patrol officer called to remove it from the scene.
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