2013 RDX-TECH AWD - MaxLife ATF + S-VCM Controller
1st post and 1st Acura...but a longtime multiple Honda owner. I found a low mileage, cherry, 13 RDX-Tech AWD to replace my wife's 11 Pilot EX/L-RES AWD with 170,000+ miles. Love the car, but in getting familiar with it over the past few days...I found it exhibited the dreaded Honda trait of an unsettled, jerky, juddering transmission shifts going up through the gears -and- while transitioning in and out of ECO mode at highway speed.
This RDX was behaving a lot like the 08 Odyssey we owned once upon a time. With the Odyssey, a couple of software updates and a replaced torque converter under warranty failed to correct the bad transmission behavior. It was at that time I decided to give Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF a try...it had settled the transmission in a Nissan Pathfinder we had at the time...so why not. MaxLife literally transformed the behavior of that 08 Odyssey and I've used it in every Honda vehicle we've owned since...whether the vehicle exhibited symptoms or not...without issue and perfect results. So a couple days ago I did a x3 drain / fill with Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF (full synthetic) on this RDX. Success! The car is now settled while going up through the gears and driveability has been transformed. The transmission's shifting is now "sequential" and "linear"...no vibration, no feeling the transmission is "going back and forth" or trying to find the right gear. I had also installed the S-VCM controller for VCM deactivation in the 11 Pilot recently...for 2 reasons. The 1st was to obviously shut off the VCM system and the symptoms which come with it when it's engaging / disengaging...but also to see if it had a positive effect on the Pilot's oil consumption. It eliminated the symptoms of engaging / disengaging, but admittedly it wasn't in the vehicle for an entire oil change interval before we bought the RDX. With regard to oil consumption in the Pilot, there was no perceptible oil consumption during the ~1250 miles it was installed in the Pilot. So, along with the MaxLife switch, I also installed the S-VCM Controller from the Pilot into the RDX...and once again, Success! This RDX is now running on all 6 cylinders all the time with MaxLife in the transmission...these 2 small changes have transformed this RDX into the refined driving experience it should be. |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16183135)
1st post and 1st Acura...but a longtime multiple Honda owner. I found a low mileage, cherry, 13 RDX-Tech AWD to replace my wife's 11 Pilot EX/L-RES AWD with 170,000+ miles. Love the car, but in getting familiar with it over the past few days...I found it exhibited the dreaded Honda trait of an unsettled, jerky, juddering transmission shifts going up through the gears -and- while transitioning in and out of ECO mode at highway speed.
This RDX was behaving a lot like the 08 Odyssey we owned once upon a time. With the Odyssey, a couple of software updates and a replaced torque converter under warranty failed to correct the bad transmission behavior. It was at that time I decided to give Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF a try...it had settled the transmission in a Nissan Pathfinder we had at the time...so why not. MaxLife literally transformed the behavior of that 08 Odyssey and I've used it in every Honda vehicle we've owned since...whether the vehicle exhibited symptoms or not...without issue and perfect results. So a couple days ago I did a x3 drain / fill with Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc ATF (full synthetic) on this RDX. Success! The car is now settled while going up through the gears and driveability has been transformed. The transmission's shifting is now "sequential" and "linear"...no vibration, no feeling the transmission is "going back and forth" or trying to find the right gear. I had also installed the S-VCM controller for VCM deactivation in the 11 Pilot recently...for 2 reasons. The 1st was to obviously shut off the VCM system and the symptoms which come with it when it's engaging / disengaging...but also to see if it had a positive effect on the Pilot's oil consumption. It eliminated the symptoms of engaging / disengaging, but admittedly it wasn't in the vehicle for an entire oil change interval before we bought the RDX. With regard to oil consumption in the Pilot, there was no perceptible oil consumption during the ~1250 miles it was installed in the Pilot. So, along with the MaxLife switch, I also installed the S-VCM Controller from the Pilot into the RDX...and once again, Success! This RDX is now running on all 6 cylinders all the time with MaxLife in the transmission...these 2 small changes have transformed this RDX into the refined driving experience it should be. |
What prompted you to deviate from the OEM ATF?
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Originally Posted by thoiboi
(Post 16207156)
What prompted you to deviate from the OEM ATF?
After those 2 uses of MaxLife, I have used MaxLife exclusively in 7 other different Hondas and 2 other different Japanese vehicle makes. I have used MaxLife regardless of whether any of my vehicles were "symptomatic" or not...with a total mileage of use of almost 500,000 miles. All without issue and with performance at least as good as the fluid it replaced. As I mentioned, right after we bought this 13 RDX, it was exhibiting the same/similar symptoms as our 08 Odyssey. The MaxLife (and S-VCM Controller) transformed our RDX from a herky-jerky, shuddering experience up thru the gears to the smooth, powerful and refined driving experience it should be running on all 6 cylinders all the time. That is my experience...others may not share the same experience or feel the changes I've made is right for them. |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16183135)
So, along with the MaxLife switch, I also installed the S-VCM Controller.
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Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16207875)
Normally, you would do one change at a time to see the effects.
The MaxLife most definitely took care of that shuddering/juddering going up through the gears and the S-VCM Controller took care of the shudder of VCM engaging/disengaging at highway speeds. I will say this as well...whether the VCM system was symptomatic or transparent, I would still install a VCM deactivation device...this based on my experience with the system in our previous 08 Odyssey and 11 Pilot. My personal opinion is the VCM system is detrimental to the long term health and drivability on any engine it's installed...the class action suit Honda lost and all the engine repairs and replacements Honda performed as a result is the "proof in the pudding." But hey, don't take my word for it...do some research. There's plenty of info out there on MaxLife ATF being the saving grace of Honda V6 transmissions (I'm certainly a believer too) -and- VCM deactivation curing not only the shuddering of engage/disengage, but also the oil consumption and fouled plugs which are part and parcel of the system. |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16207941)
But hey, don't take my word for it...do some research.
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Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16208272)
For starters, I'd like to know what "published" specification Honda/Acura has for their ATF because their "Acura Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF DW-1" is not a specification.
Per Valvoline...MaxLife is a full synthetic formulated to perform across the broadest range of transmissions. Per the label, this includes (non-CVT) Honda automatic transmissions with full compatibility with both Z-1 and DW-1 fluids. Further...use of MaxLife ATF will not void the manufacturer's warranty. Short of a data sheet comparison, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that supports this product simply works in Honda transmissions...and works better than the OEM fluid in numerous cases to turn a mis-behaving transmission into one that behaves. That is also my personal experience and the reason why I use MaxLife ATF and endorse its use. Having said that, I have no connection to Valvoline and derive no benefit whether you use MaxLife or not...I'm merely stating my personal experience and belief in the product. |
jjrphs, how was your fuel economy affected, if it was, after you installed S-VCM controller on your vehicles?
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Originally Posted by osnova
(Post 16209173)
jjrphs, how was your fuel economy affected, if it was, after you installed S-VCM controller on your vehicles?
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16199222)
Because I installed the S-VCM Controller immediately into our 13 RDX after purchase...I have no comparative before/after MPG data with our RDX.
In the short time (1 month) it was installed in our Pilot, I logged <1 MPG difference with S-VCM Controller vs not. There's plenty of others who have installed VCM disable devices in their Odyessys, Pilots and 2nd Gen Ridgelines...of those who've posted data that I've read, it appears that the greatest comparative difference was less than 2 MPG less fuel efficiency. For myself, the modest MPG reduction is a small price to pay for turning off this system with its potential long-term driveability and engine issues. |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16208814)
Right...yeah, but that (no stated spec) is exactly what keeps consumers believing (and buying) a relatively expensive (and in many cases under-performing) OEM product is a requirement for their vehicle without alternative.
This is what Acura emailed me: Specified fluid: Acura Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF DW-1 NOTICE: Do not mix Acura Automatic Transmission Fluid ATF DW-1 with other transmission fluids. Using a transmission fluid other than Acura ATF DW- 1 may adversely affect the operation and durability of your vehicle’s transmission, and damage the transmission. Any damage caused by using a transmission fluid that is not equivalent to Acura ATF DW-1 is not covered by Acura’s new vehicle warranty. NOTICE Pour the fluid slowly and carefully so you do not spill any. Clean up any spills immediately; they can damage components in the engine compartment. As for cost, about $7 a quart is not expensive. |
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209273)
Well my RDX is under warranty and besides, I have absolutely no transmission (shutter or whatever) or VCM issues at all....BUT, I do believe in having options.
Now, had I been satisfied with the driveability of that previous 00 Pathfinder and 08 Odyssey or our current RDX...I probably would have never tried MaxLife ATF and possibly have been suspect as well. But, I wasn't satisfied with the driveablility of those vehicles and I didn't arrive at trying MaxLife ATF by accident...I did my research and found others with the same vehicle/issues who found success with the switch and thus my reason for giving it a try. My 1st two uses of the product produced complete success. And just as a reminder, I own and have owned many Hondas and far more of them were asymptomatic than symptomatic....yet I continued to use the product because it proved to be at least equal to the OEM product in my vehicles which were asymptomatic and superior in those which were symptomatic. Again, my total mileage of use is approaching a half-million miles. Am I the only one who's had a positive experience using the product (in Hondas)? Absolutely not...just do a cursory search and what you'll find is typically any negative comments you'll read are most often from those who've never used it and are "OEM at all cost disciples." I am curious...do you perform the maintenance or work on your own cars?
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209273)
This is what Acura emailed me:
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209273)
I highlighted the "equivalent", therefore there must be some that are and I want Acura (not an oil company) to tell me which ones are.
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209273)
As for cost, about $7 a quart is not expensive.
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Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16209335)
I am curious...do you perform the maintenance or work on your own cars?
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16209335)
I'm sorry...exactly what kind of response did you think you were going to get? That's standard boilerplate disclaimer language...and to be completely expected as a response.
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16209335)
Well, good luck with Acura / Honda telling you anything about equivalents...they have a vested interest in having everyone believe that only DW-1 is suited for their transmissions. FYI...it's "oil companies" which make DW-1, not Acura / Honda.
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I was under the impression that if a manufacturer stated that you can only use "their product" (like lubes), then they have to give it to you for FREE. I remember reading some legalities about that.
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Jjrphs--: In a number of other auto cars that I have owned over the years, when refilling the auto trans I would remove one of the lines going to the trans and attach a long clear hose to that line that pumped from the cooler back to the trans. I would then crank the car and allow a couple of qts of fluid to be pumped through the line and hose to a bucket, I would then refill the amount that went through the line into the trans. By doing it this way I could refresh the fluid in the trans all at one time, instead of having to do a number of fills and refills. The reason I am bringing this up, I see the possibility of doing the above , through the line you have shown me, and change the trans fluid, when I replace the filter,,seem reasonable to you that this could also be done safely in our RDX's
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Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209388)
I was under the impression that if a manufacturer stated that you can only use "their product" (like lubes), then they have to give it to you for FREE. I remember reading some legalities about that.
Originally Posted by Poolman
(Post 16209614)
Jjrphs--: In a number of other auto cars that I have owned over the years, when refilling the auto trans I would remove one of the lines going to the trans and attach a long clear hose to that line that pumped from the cooler back to the trans. I would then crank the car and allow a couple of qts of fluid to be pumped through the line and hose to a bucket, I would then refill the amount that went through the line into the trans. By doing it this way I could refresh the fluid in the trans all at one time, instead of having to do a number of fills and refills. The reason I am bringing this up, I see the possibility of doing the above , through the line you have shown me, and change the trans fluid, when I replace the filter,,seem reasonable to you that this could also be done safely in our RDX's
Honda transmissions are so easy (in my opinion) to drain and fill that I've always just done that. My personal SOP is to do a x3 drain/fill with the vehicle's 1st introduction to MaxLife and then a single drain/fill at a ~50k mile interval thereafter. Having said that, if you're comfortable and confident in the method you use...then why not? |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16209888)
Hmmm...reference?
Fact is, my mother's 1990 Toyota Tercel got a letter from Toyota stating any headlight bulbs were free. Sure enough they were since what was installed was not a standard bulb that I could only get from Toyota. |
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209971)
As mentioned...I was under the impression.
Fact is, my mother's 1990 Toyota Tercel got a letter from Toyota stating any headlight bulbs were free. Sure enough they were since what was installed was not a standard bulb that I could only get from Toyota. |
If I recall, the legalities thing stems from an Enzo owner challenging Ferrari over the cost of their oil changes. Brought a court ruling dealing with locomotives or something. It was stated that if a manufacturer stipulates that you must use only their oil to maintain the warranty, tHen they must provide it.. |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16209993)
Was the free light bulb replacement a result of a Toyota policy or a consumer oriented federal or state law? You mentioned "legalities" and I for one would be extremely interested see a reference where that is codified as I'm sure others would be as well.
What I did hunt down are DW-1 approvals. For example: Liqui Moly Top Tec 1800 meets DW-1 which is a Dexron VI and Ford Mercon LV (these latter two are available from various manufactures). https://products.liqui-moly.com/top-tec-atf-1800-2.html I also came across Total Fluidmatic MV LV which has DW-1 approval. http://www4.total.fr/asia-oceania/si...%20MV%20LV.pdf |
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16218795)
You'll have to hunt it down yourself.
What happened to..."I want Acura (not an oil company) to tell me which ones are (equivalent)?"
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16209273)
I want Acura (not an oil company) to tell me which ones are.
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16218795)
What I did hunt down are DW-1 approvals. For example: Liqui Moly Top Tec 1800 meets DW-1 which is a Dexron VI and Ford Mercon LV (these latter two are available from various manufactures).
https://products.liqui-moly.com/top-tec-atf-1800-2.html I also came across Total Fluidmatic MV LV which has DW-1 approval. http://www4.total.fr/asia-oceania/si...%20MV%20LV.pdf MaxLife ATF PI Sheet |
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16218795)
You'll have to hunt it down yourself.
What I did hunt down are DW-1 approvals. For example: Liqui Moly Top Tec 1800 meets DW-1 which is a Dexron VI and Ford Mercon LV (these latter two are available from various manufactures). https://products.liqui-moly.com/top-tec-atf-1800-2.html I also came across Total Fluidmatic MV LV which has DW-1 approval. http://www4.total.fr/asia-oceania/si...%20MV%20LV.pdf |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16218862)
Since oil company PI sheets are apparently "proof of equivalency" to you now....here's the PI sheet for Valvoline MaxLife Dex/Merc Full Synthetic ATF
MaxLife ATF PI Sheet |
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16218875)
You need to be very careful with language like these aftermarket ATF makers use; there is a huge chasm between "Approved" and "Recommended"; neither of the ATFs you referenced are "Approved".
What the PI sheet for MaxLife ATF does contain is a recommendation with Honda/Acura transmissions (except CVT), compatibility statement with for Z1 / DW1 fluids, a "stands behind statement" for their recommendations, a "will not void warranty statement" for their recommendations and reiterates the FTC's interpretation of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. For myself, there's the above, plus the almost 500,000 miles of personal experience with MaxLife across 7 different Honda's / 11 different vehicles total where MaxLife ATF has proven equivalent to factory ATF in my vehicles without any transmission symptoms and has proven superior to factory ATF in my vehicles which had transmission symptoms. I'm not trying to "sell" anyone on MaxLife ATF...if it's not for you so be it. But I have the personal experience to back up my recommendation. |
Cynic or not, numerous manufacturers have certification standards which allow aftermarket companies to create compatible products. The thing about MaxLife is it is a jack of all trades, master of none. It is not physically possible for a one-size-fits-all ATF to comply with the friction requirements of so many different manufacturers; at best it will be a pour second cousin to true DW-1.
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16218903)
Cynic or not, numerous manufacturers have certification standards which allow aftermarket companies to create compatible products. The thing about MaxLife is it is a jack of all trades, master of none. It is not physically possible for a one-size-fits-all ATF to comply with the friction requirements of so many different manufacturers; at best it will be a pour second cousin to true DW-1.
As I said, I have the personal experience and there's a multitude of others (Honda owners) with anecdotal evidence that suggest MaxLife is superior to DW1. |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16218934)
MaxLife could very well be a "poor" second cousin to DW1...but until you produce a data sheet comparison, you're just guessing and making assumptions.
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16218938)
It's actually the reverse of that; until you prove Maxlife is compatible, you're just guessing and making assumptions. In engineering circles, the burden of proof is on the claimant; in this case, it is Valvoline claiming MaxLife ATF to be compatible with DW-1.
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Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16218952)
You...made the statement that MaxLife ATF was sub-par (poor 2nd cousin?) to DW1. Please back that up with facts.
Think about it this way, possibly the most key property of any ATF is the Coefficient of Friction (COF), if the COF is such that the ATF is too slippery, the clutches will slip too much when engaging and wear out sooner than they should; if the COF provides too much grip, the clutches will engage too quickly and put more strain on the mechanicals of the transmission than it was designed for. Given all manufacturers design their transmissions with very specific COF properties of their ATF, it is unreasonable to think a one-size-fits-all ATF has the correct COF for a wide variety of transmissions. Are you really willing to bet the life of your transmission on an ATF which isn't certified/approved to be compliant with the standards set forth by the designers of your transmission? If I was inclined to drive cars with automatic transmissions I can tell you I sure as hell wouldn't. |
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16218987)
Please understand, I never made any such statement; what I said was, it makes claims be compatible when there is no proof; what I also said was there is a huge gap between "Approved" and "Recommended" for..
Valvoline is recognized as one of the best, if not the best automotive petro-fluid makers in the world. Valvoline claims compatibility with Honda/Acura transmissions and DW1. Valvoline backs up that claim with a "stands behind product statement." It's pretty simple...either you're willing to trust a manufacturer like Valvoline with its representations and guarantees or you're not.
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16218987)
Are you really willing to bet the life of your transmission on an ATF which isn't certified/approved to be compliant with the standards set forth by the designers of your transmission?
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16218987)
If I was inclined to drive cars with automatic transmissions I can tell you I sure as hell wouldn't.
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Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16218897)
I'm not trying to "sell" anyone on MaxLife ATF...if it's not for you so be it. But I have the personal experience to back up my recommendation.
What I want to see is a Honda spec just as one would have for a gear oil GL4 or GL5, etc. All of the approved or recommended ATFs seem to be a low viscosity type of fluid. Anyway, since my RDX shifts as ultra smooth as can be, I'm not worried. Guess I got a god one. :thumbsup: |
Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16219214)
Your quote: "at best it will be a pour (poor?) second cousin to true DW-1." That certainly reads like you're implying MaxLife ATF is inferior to DW1.
Valvoline is recognized as one of the best, if not the best automotive petro-fluid makers in the world. Valvoline claims compatibility with Honda/Acura transmissions and DW1. Valvoline backs up that claim with a "stands behind product statement." It's pretty simple...either you're willing to trust a manufacturer like Valvoline with its representations and guarantees or you're not. Yes...and have done so to the tune of almost 500,000 miles and years of personal experience in mostly Honda transmissions. My experience is anything but uncommon for those who've had transmission issues in their Honda and have given MaxLife ATF a try. You have no personal experience with Honda automatic transmissions?...yet you question those who do and who've found an easy fix for the driveability and symptoms many of these Honda transmissions have?
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Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16219280)
Not that I care, but it sure seems like it.
That's kinda what these internet forums are for. Correct?...The sharing of real knowledge and experience...versus, making highly suspect "once upon a time I heard this" claims that when you're asked to provide reference, you simply invite the questioner to "go find it for yourself."
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16219280)
Anyway, since my RDX shifts as ultra smooth as can be, I'm not worried. Guess I got a god one. :thumbsup:
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Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16219327)
..seriously, give the MaxLife a try before letting the dealer monkeys have a go at it
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16219314)
Valvoline makes lots of noise about standing behind their product, but there is absolutely zero proof published regarding compatibility. Not standing behind the product from my perspective.
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16219314)
A half million miles is but a drop in the bucket, and from an engineering perspective, is nothing but an anecdotal report. Said another way, utterly irrelevant.
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16219314)
Did I say I have no personal experience with Honda automatic transmissions? Hmmm, funny, last time I checked my 2001 V6 Accord has an automatic transmission. Maybe I'm imagining it and it really has a 6MT.
Originally Posted by Tech
(Post 16220120)
Trust me, that'll never happen, not on my Acura, Porsche or my BMW motorcycles...or anything from chainsaws to aircraft.
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Dealer Monkies, or just someone who drank too much Kool-Aid.
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Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16220317)
Dealer Monkies.
Originally Posted by horseshoez
(Post 16220317)
or just someone who drank too much Kool-Aid.
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Originally Posted by jjrphs
(Post 16220279)
Since no one is advocating MaxLife ATF in Porsches, BMW motorcycles, chainsaws or aircraft...I'm assuming you're referring to the dealer monkeys :D
Here is a clear example of what an independent shop did to a friend's car. Good thing it wasn't mine or the mechanic would have has a 45 ACP between his eyes. Got no use for butchers. https://www.smugmug.com/gallery/n-Vxh3JV/ |
Jjrphs, Thanks for bring out the alternative to the OEM fluid. From what I have read around , The Max Life is getting good reviews in many different makes of auto's. I will be trading it out in my ride in a short time , when the warrentie runs out. The stuff will be going into my 2003 Sequoia in the next few days as well. Been doing my own work for such as this for over 50 years,. Some get head strong on such, when told there are good alternatives (or better) that OEM products for their auto's Thanks for the VCM controller as well. Rather read where someone is trying to help DIY'ing and such, that someone else trying to shoot it down,,Have A good day
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Originally Posted by Poolman
(Post 16222576)
Jjrphs, Thanks for bring out the alternative to the OEM fluid. From what I have read around , The Max Life is getting good reviews in many different makes of auto's. I will be trading it out in my ride in a short time , when the warrentie runs out. The stuff will be going into my 2003 Sequoia in the next few days as well. Been doing my own work for such as this for over 50 years,. Some get head strong on such, when told there are good alternatives (or better) that OEM products for their auto's Thanks for the VCM controller as well. Rather read where someone is trying to help DIY'ing and such, that someone else trying to shoot it down,,Have A good day
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