zeta

iTrader: (1)

In a nutshell
I have had the S/C on my CLS-6 now for about 8-9 weeks (about 4,000 miles). Ever since the install, there has been a noticeable clicking noise from the right front side (pulley area) of the car during the morning cold start. This noise would only last for a maximum of 3 to 5 seconds and then would stop as the car idled up. It would not repeat again during the day no matter how many times the engine was stopped and restarted. It bugged the hell out of me, but never the less, I could not figure it out, so I put up with it.

(In addition, it's important to keep in mind that during all this time I have not had any S/C belt squeal during boost or during normal driving conditions.)

Two weeks ago, while checking the oil, I noticed a fine black powder (rubber) residue coating the flat area around the pulley end of the blower outer bracket. It appeared that the S/C belt was prematurely wearing in that vacinity or something. I placed a new Gatorback belt on the S/C - Altenator pulley and tightened it down to the 25ft/lbs as recommended in the Comptech instructions. Although the car was not completely cold, I restarted the car and the noise did not reoccur.
Well, on Monday of that week, I start the car to proceed to work, the engine is completely cold and the clicking noise returns; however, this time the noise is constant and allows me enough time to get out, open the hood and get a good look at what was going on.

Observation: As the car was idleing, the new belt was visably jumping the S/C pulley and moving to the right as it sought its alignment, which in turn was causing the clicking noise. I shut the car down and repositioned/retightened the belt and that eliminated the constant clicking noise so that I could get on my way to my employer. However, the clicking noise would once again return (3 to 5 seconds) on the cold start for every subsequent morning that week.

Diagnosis: the S/C pulley was slightly out of alignment (to the left) with the altenator drive pulley and the belt was wearing prematurely, which accounted for the fine black powder present on the blower outer bracket.

Corrective Action/Goal: Get the pulley alignment closer (to the right) and eliminate this bastard cold start clicking sound
Last Saturday, I pulled the blower off the car. Placed four (1mm wide) stainless steel washers, one for each of the allen head bolts used to secure the blower to the main blower mount, on the right side of the bracket at the snout of the S/C'er unit. I wiped the blower bracket with thinner to clean it off and used spray adhesive on the washers to keep them in place when the blower was lowered back down into position during the re-install. Now the S/C sits 1mm to the right spaced by the washers. End result, the pulleys are in closer alignment and absolutley no noise has occurred on any morning cold starts since .

BTW, removing and re-installing the S/C is not that difficult, it just appears intimidating because of the way it all looks on the car. Moreover, it is really a straight forward process, with the aid of the Comptech instructions. Just be carefull not to break the mainshaft seal

I just thought I would share/record this unusual occurance and remedy with the ACL community for posterity's sake.
Discuss if you wish.
Peace

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

The blower should have come with 2 or 3 spacers to go on the end of the shaft to assist in alignment. Glad to hear you got things worked out. Enjoy the blower, I throughly enjoyed mine.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

mrsteve,
Thanks for the reply. Sorry to see you leaving the 'boost scene'. I hope it's only temporary until find your next project.

It's a good feeling to have finally put a 'stake through the heart' of the anomoly I described above and learn alot about the doffing and donning of the S/C unit. That little adventure would have cost at least $500 bucks for a speed shop to perform in correcting the problem. In addition, the band aid remedy would have been to do nothing and just keep tightening the belt and replacing it every so often. However, once I was able to place a visual on the jumping of the belt on the S/C pulley with the actual clicking sound, the formulation of the corrective action plan was elementary. I just had to find the time to do it.

Allout

Glad you were able to fix your problem. Very good diagnosis on your part

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I performed a recheck on the S/C reinstall connections today and it all seems to be functioning well. There was a smell of coolant when I shut down the car this morning; however, I believe it was residual from spillage during the disassebly process last week.

BTW, all the balls it took on my part to remove the blower and reassemble came from reading all of the informative discussions posted here on ACL.com. This place is great!
Props to ACL.com

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I've ordered the Comptech supercharger for a car I don't even own yet, Trust me I haven't given up on the boost scene.

Allout

Are we talking about a 6 speed 2005 TL Steve? Glad to hear your not going away totally.

mrsteve

iTrader: (1)

I'm too young for a 4-door.

Allout

I guess that narrows it down to 4 different cars that I can think of. When do we find out? I can't wait to see your next project

6peedSleepR

gotta be the S 2 K.

EJDubbz

Sorry but I must awake this thread. I am having this exact problem but I believe the opposite directing. My alternator pulley is barely sticking out further than the blower pulley. This is cause the belt to jump to the left (when looking at the engine bay). I have been dealing with this for a week now. Adjusted the belt and tension many times and even scooted the pulley blower down a bit to align itself. That will work but as soon as I tighten the bolt up to it, it will jump a groove.

Any ideas will be much appreciated! Running out of options here. Side note: I am using the high boost pulley and this is an accord kit on my 2002 Acura TL.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

First, to understand clearer, It sounds like the stock alternator belt lines up and runs smoothly with the crank pulley and the A/C compressor pulley when the SC'er belt is fully disconnected from the alternator HBP and the motor running?

If so, then the pulley on the SC'er input shaft may need to be moved inward to bring it into alignment with the alternator HBP. On the input shaft of my SC'er there are TWO spacing washers that bring the pulley into alignment with the HBP. These are located on the inner side of the SC'er pulley on the input shaft next to the bearing cover.

Check that area to see if there are any spacing washers present. If there are, you may need to remove the SC'er pulley and remove one or both to get that sweet spot for proper alignment.

EJDubbz

Yes, the stock alternator belt lines up and runs smoothly. The only problem I have is the alignment of the blower pulley with the outer pulley on the alternator.

That would be a great idea, but I need to go the opposite direction. Instead of bringing the blower puller inward, it needs to go outward, basically extending. I looked into putting another spacer on it but when you take the blower pulley off, there is a groove that it goes into which doesn't allow the spacer to fit over it.

I hope that makes sense? When the belt is on and tensioned, I start the car up and as soon as the blower pulley spins, it shifts one groove to the left making it off by a tooth.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

OK, that's a good thing and logically places the issue on the SC'er input shaft pulley.

Understood.

It sounds like you just need a little more "extension" (looking at the car) to the left. I obviously cannot see the 'groove' you mention looking at mine; so, I'm not sure what to tell you, other than you may have to modify a washer to slip over the groove if there is space to allow it, that, in turn, will let you tighten the outside bolt securing the SC'er pulley.

LOL, yes, I can picture it, having been there. It drove me crazy until I could figure it out and remedy.

EJDubbz

Hopefully I will solve this tonight since it is my daily lol. So frustrating. Could not having enough belt tension or the nut securing the pulley not being tight enough play a factor into this? I'm just hoping its just a matter of spacing. Once again thanks for all the input.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

From what you describe, it is reasonable to assume that it is an alignment issue. In regards to performance, you want to have the proper belt tension the CT Engineering instructions recommend for the belt AND you do not want to have a loose SC'er pulley at all.

Is the groove you speak of a 'key way' on the input shaft itself, or within the HBP?

I'm trying to picture what you are trying to describe; however, I'm not sure.

Can you explain what it is you are finding that prevents the fitment of any additional spacing elements on to the shaft?

Your welcome.

EJDubbz

Yes I believe it is referred to as a "key way". You see the notch in that pulley below? Just like that. So I will most likely have to cut a slot in the washer.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

That's it. I can't see the actual key way when I look at my pulley because the washers block it on the inner side and the bolt and a washer block it on the outer side.

You can probably gnaw away at the inside of a washer with a dremel tool or file or something. Also, if possible, just be sure to get varying thicknesses when you purchase the appropriate washers sized to fit the input shaft, that way, you won't have to run back and forth to the store. When you get it fixed, it will be a big relief, believe me. hehe.

Good Luck!

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Off topic, but zeta, do you have a fuel pressure gauge on the comptech FPR?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Yes, I had an Auto Meter #5763 gauge installed along with a boost gauge into an A-piller pod back in 2005. However, I suspect that it is not very accurate.

AutoMeter Phantom Analog Gauges 5763 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I want to get one in the engine bay. I can't find any pics of how to tap into the comptech FPR.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

From looking at mine, it appears the installers used some type of fuel line T-adapter like the EXAMPLE on the link below:

1 8" BSPT Oil Pressure Sensor Tee to NPT Adapter Turbo Supply Feed Line Gauge T | eBay

The straight threaded part goes into the FPR, either a female end or threaded end receives the CT Engineering fuel hose supplied with the SC'er kit and the threaded female SIDE outlet receives the fuel pressure gauge.

Of course, you would have to research the proper fitting size(s) for the CT FPR and fuel hose and fuel gauge ends to see if you can find one for your project. A good place to start would be summit racing when the fitting sizes are narrowed down.

Hope that helps.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Zeta. I have a shaft HBP but need to up the fuel pressure. Not sure when i'll get around to this though.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

No problem.

FYI, the guy on the links below rebuilds SC'ers and makes the alternator HBP as an alternative to the peeps in FL. Not sure how competitive his price is, though.

Just had mine rebuilt, after about 105K miles, in Dec 2015 and he does excellent work.

Pulley:




Rebuild services:

CT Engineering Supercharger Remanufacture / Rebuild CT Engineering Supercharger Remanufacture / Rebuild [Rebuild services] - $727.00 : Jon Bond Performance, The Worlds Premier Supercharger Rebuilder and Parts Store

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

EJDubbz had the same problem. The key in the shaft is removable, it is actually half moon shaped, tap on one end to pop it up and it will pull right out. Lowes sells machine washers that have a precise thickness, this is the cheapest way to get good shim that is square. I had to lightly sand the inside of one to fit the drive shaft. I'll check tomorrow to see what size I used. Use a small steel straight edge down the face of the pulleys to check alignment. I destroyed 4 belts and was ready to give the SC kit away through this learning process LOL.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

I talked to Jon Bond before I had a pair of HBPs made by Terry at South Florida Pulley. JB's price for the ALT pulley was about 3x more that SFP's price for the SC pulley. Granted there is less work that goes into the machining of a SC pulley verses the Alt pulley. Both places provide an excellent service in my opinion, cant go wrong with either.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

If you are still using the Comptech FMU the fuel pressure will increase proportional to the new boost level. If you don't have a fuel pressure gauge already you can pick up an inline AN adapter coupling and gauge from Jegs for under $100. Make sure your base fuel pressure is in the 41-43 psi range and you will be set.

What size HBP do you have?

Here is a copy of exactly what I ordered from Jegs. I can get you a pic if you needed it but all you have to do is install the adapter in to the factory fuel block and attach the line to the FMU on the otherside of it.


Part # Description Unit Price Qty Price
27-15633 FUEL PRESS GAUGE 0-100 $32.99 1 $32.99
555-100526 #6 MALE-FEMALE W/ 1/8"NPT $12.99 1 $12.99

Subtotal: $45.98

Total Charges: $45.98

zeta

iTrader: (1)

lol, yeah, definitely more machining going on for the alt. pully. I found that FB link for JB's alt pulley by accident one day; however, I never priced it out. I remember getting my alt HBP, back in 2005, for something like $100 IIRC, lol.

One huge advantage with the high boost SC'er pulley is that you don't have to remove the blower unit to fish out the alternator in order to change it.


03 tls nc, is there an advantage, in the accuracy of the fuel psi reading, by having the engine bay gauge or the sending unit for an in-the-car gauge at the factory fuel block versus having it right at the exit of the FPR?

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

My fuel pressure gauge is at the factory fuel block before the line that runs to the FMU. Some people like having the gauge at the regulator with the thinking of achieving greater accuracy with adjustments and some feel it is better to have the gauge on the fuel rail as this shows exactly what the injectors are receiving. Without building a complete fuel system it makes sense to put it between the factory block and FMU. I like to keep my ride low-key and do not want a bunch of gauges in the cabin, however a fuel pressure gauge along with a boost gauge would tell you if you are running into trouble. The pulleys I had cut will produce a constant 5psi on a J35A3 with the Comptech SC kit and the FMU is handling things just fine.

It is definitely easier to change the SC pulley for sure. For the sake of belt slip increasing pulley diameter to generate a fast blower speed is better. I thought I had a line on an ALT HBP for $100 but it fell through that is what led me to find Jon Bond and South FL Pulley. The fact that I got both SC pulleys made for less than I could by the one form JB pretty much made the decision for me.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

I hear what you are saying; however, in your opinion, does the fuel pressure gauge/T-adapter at the fuel block offer any advantages over having it at the FPR in determining an accurate psi reading?

The individual who installed mine back in 2005 put the T adapter, with my gauge sending unit, at the outlet of the CT-E FPR, not the factory fuel block.

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

Makes sense. I've always read that guys with the HBP would increase the fuel pressure up to like 55psi.

I bought the shaft HBP off ronjon. Doing a reno now so it's in a box somewhere but he was reaching around 6psi if I remember correctly. So tempting to throw it on.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

It will give you an accurate reading of the fuel pressure that is supplied to the fuel rails in that position.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

It about a 10 - 15 min job to change the SC pulley. Go for it! You can always switch it back. If you have an OBD2 scan tool you can use it in live data mode to monitor what is going on. Keep an eye on water temp, AIT, fuel trims, and timing.

EJDubbz

I just purchased one of these scan tools that reads directly to the phone app. It is really handy. When you say keep an eye on those things, what should be the safe numbers? The timing advance is usually around 10 degree avg and fuel trims around 3 percent. My IAT is 150 F on about an 80 degree day. Also i feel like my engine coolant temp is pretty high at 204 F. This is all driving about 14 miles on the freeway to work.

EJDubbz

Update on my alignment issue: CT-E had a blower pulley spacer that said it should have been on the kit when but it wasn't. Put it on and it sat perfectly. Im lucky CT-E's office is literally 5 minutes from my house so I just picked it up for 10 bucks

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

I have the torque app and have been monitoring my IATs also. I don't usually go for long drives, but it has reached 147* and my coolant was at 217*. This was also likely city driving which might make cooling harder for the car.

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

I have the torque app as well but don't really care for it that much. On a recommendation from a tuner, I now us the Track Addicts app. TrackAddict for iOS & Android It lets you rest cel's, data log and take video with phone, as well as control a couple GoPros and then link them all together for play back. It's great for recording drag runs and having all the info with in car video to see whats taking place. I typically monitor short and long term fuel trims, timing advance, AIT, and coolant temp. With these wireless readers the more data you send the slower the response time, so I try to keep it to a bare minimum. Fuel trims are effected by the O2 readings in closed loop operation. Timing advance is effected by the knock sensor and calculated load. The AIT and coolant temps give you a general idea of what base tables the ECU is working off of. Coolant temps of 180 make the most power and power levels drop as the temp increases roughly every 5 degrees. The same is true for AIT's the cooler the better from about 70.

Not running a fog light and using a modified AEM CAI pipe directly to the TB at the SC I can maintain about 130 degree AIT @ 80 out side are temp. The car noticeable makes about 20% less power compared to sub 100 degree AITs. I don't do much monitoring in stop and go driving but as long as the car is moving my coolant temp stays between 180 and 195 even in 100+ degree heat. Exhaust leaks were developed at one point and it made the short and long term fuel trims run up in the high 20% range constantly, due to the loss of exhaust gas and ECU dumping fuel to try and maintain air/fuel ratio.

My suggestion for data logging is pick the parameters you want to monitor, find a route to drive, then make 3-5 test drives logging unmodified to create a base line, noting conditions and driving style. This lets you know roughly how your car operates and shows areas for improvement. Always make a few test runs on the same route when you make changes, this helps eliminate environmental errors.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Are you guys running the Mugen cooling mods? These may help keep the temps down:

THERMOSTAT 19301-XGMR-0000
FAN SWITCH 37760-XK5-00N0
RADIATOR CAP 19045-XGER-0000

kingmotorsports.com/

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

No I am not running the cooling mods. I have not had any need for them, even in 100+ degree weather and SC my coolant temps have stayed with in reason. I feel like the thermostat and fan switch might cause problems with not keeping the engine in its operating temp rang and could keep the ECU in a cold start table. The Rad cap may have some merit but all raising the pressure does is increase boiling point and I have not had a heat issue.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Interesting.

1) Are your concerns of '...not keeping the engine in its operating temp range...' relative to your more northern location?

2) In addition, what would constitute a '...cold start table...' range the ECU would get 'stuck within' (for the lack of a better word) to hamper a SC'ed engines performance, such as the J32, with a heat generating blower in operation?

My fans, in heavy traffic, come on at 186 degrees and go off at around 170, or so, without the A/C on. That's with the mugen cooling mods and a CSF aluminium radiator in S. FL heat.