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Heads up! California 2003 CL with Comptech headers - smog check gotcha
Went in to get my '03 CL-S smogged (its third biennial check). All emissions were well within limits, but the test FAILED because of the dealer installed HEADERS! (Comptech 220-042)... The tech's comment was "Your headers aren't on the list, and you're gonna have to put the old exhaust back on"...
Uh huh... Since THAT was not gonna happen, I did some digging on the web.
Turns out that to be legal in CA, aftermarket headers need a CARB (CA Air Resources Board) EO (Executive Order) number placard spot welded on the center header tube near the mounting flange.
The EO on my headers (EO 455-12) was "good" only for 2000 - 2002, and according to the CARB website, an EO 455-17 was required. Since CT advertises "All CT Engineering headers are 50 state emissions legal", I was a bit confused, and agitated with the nanny state bureaucracy.
A call to CT Engineering was interesting... Nate advised that my call to CT was the latest in a recent rash of '03s with the same problem. He was very helpful, and confirmed that the headers WERE legal, and that he would mail a decal for the engine compartment that keeps the bureaucratic smog nazis happy... After years of expensive rectal exam CA smog checks, it seems that CARB is putting out the word for their smog techs to be watching for header (and other components?) EO numbers...
I hope this saves another CL owner from the hassle, headaches, time and additional expense of spending our tax dollars for an inadequate state paperwork "system".
The people who really need to worry about this are the folks with XS headers in CA. I never had a problem with mine, but I would go to a seedy area to get your smog done when it's time.
If I'm running headers, a fat catalytic converter, and a full exhaust & CAI without the emissions sticker driving through California, can I be harassed with out of state plates regarding the smog/emissions issues?
I've driving through before with my old prelude with no cat before and didn't have an issue, but that was about 8 years ago.
It's based on your state that the car is registered in, for example you can't get a tint ticket in NY for too dark of a tint on a FL vehicle because that level of tint is legal in the state that the car is registered. Or you can't get a no front plate ticket in a state that requires a front plate if the state the car is registered in doesn't.
I never understanded how comptech or any headers are smog legal.
freer flowing exhaust is usally worse no matter how you slice it.
Well, they can stay within the range of the allowable emissions. The tricky part is that smaller fluctuations will bring you closer to the upper limit, making it harder to pass (in theory) as the car ages. The other thing is that companies pay for that CARB certification and I'm sure CA is willing to loosen up for any money they can get!
for example you can't get a tint ticket in NY for too dark of a tint on a FL vehicle because that level of tint is legal in the state that the car is registered
Not true. I got a tint ticket in NYC when I was visiting. 15% isn't legal in Fl either. After review by the NYC court of appeals, I had to pay it. Also got 1 for a plate cover. That was dismissed.
I have also bee harassed by NYPD about my mufflers & stereo being too loud.
A cop can stop & ticket you. Whether that holds up being from out of state is the question. Most out of state people will rather pay the fine then to deal with the courts from their home state.
Last edited by fuzzy02CLS; 02-23-2011 at 11:29 AM.
It's based on your state that the car is registered in, for example you can't get a tint ticket in NY for too dark of a tint on a FL vehicle because that level of tint is legal in the state that the car is registered. Or you can't get a no front plate ticket in a state that requires a front plate if the state the car is registered in doesn't.
LOL tell that to the chicago PD...they do that ALL the time to out of state people.
I never understanded how comptech or any headers are smog legal.
freer flowing exhaust is usally worse no matter how you slice it.
The CARB approval process is pretty cut and dried... the manufacturer runs a standard test using the subject headers to prove conformity with the CARB standards, and the report is published in the EO..
I never understanded how comptech or any headers are smog legal.
freer flowing exhaust is usally worse no matter how you slice it.
but YOR are MODIFYING it before the cat though, so i would imagine part of the carb process is making sure they have good flanges that can help prevent leaks from ever happening, which can then cause exhaust gases to bypass the cat
Originally Posted by tnobori1
Well, they can stay within the range of the allowable emissions. The tricky part is that smaller fluctuations will bring you closer to the upper limit, making it harder to pass (in theory) as the car ages. The other thing is that companies pay for that CARB certification and I'm sure CA is willing to loosen up for any money they can get!
but i also know when i did have the stock cat, on my car with the comptech headers, the cat cooled down very quickly, which meant it did not work as long after letting off the throttle and such (since the cast manifolds, retain heat, which then was able to let some of the heat go, and flow into the cat, which helped it stay warmer longer, and more effective)
but then again the cat did warm up faster though, since it did not have to warm the manifolds first, so it became effective faster, basically a tradeoff though
Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
Not true. I got a tint ticket in NYC when I was visiting. 15% isn't legal in Fl either. After review by the NYC court of appeals, I had to pay it. Also got 1 for a plate cover. That was dismissed.
I have also bee harassed by NYPD about my mufflers & stereo being too loud.
A cop can stop & ticket you. Whether that holds up being from out of state is the question. Most out of state people will rather pay the fine then to deal with the courts from their home state.
and sometimes cheaper just to pay it too (like i know here in Colorado, out of state tickits do not transfer onto your record if they get paid in a timely manner, so be kinda worthless if you gotta travel back to where you had gotten the tickit
Last edited by friesm2000; 02-27-2011 at 02:46 PM.
Not true. I got a tint ticket in NYC when I was visiting. 15% isn't legal in Fl either. After review by the NYC court of appeals, I had to pay it. Also got 1 for a plate cover. That was dismissed.
I have also bee harassed by NYPD about my mufflers & stereo being too loud.
A cop can stop & ticket you. Whether that holds up being from out of state is the question. Most out of state people will rather pay the fine then to deal with the courts from their home state.
Fuzzy is right. Police have every right to enforce thier codes with in thier AO.
Also just so you know there are Federal regulations when it comes to emissions. So even if your state does not require smog test, the Federal govt does require you to have any OEM emissions equipment (Cat, EGR etc.) on your auto, no matter what any state may tell you. So if you have Idaho plates on your car and drive through CA and they see you have no Cat you could be facing jail time and or up to $25k in fines. Even in Mississippi there is no emissions test, but the feds require you to keep a cat on your ride. So Mississippi can still fine people for a missing Cat.
Exhaust headers are known in the state of California to cause cancer.
It would be easier if all jetways had a sign that said California is known to cause cancer, it would be a lot less signs!!
I'm still baffled by how headers which yield better mpg's aren't allowed with out the CARB logo. Don't know how the tubes to transport gas would change the emissions other than lowering the amount of emissions since gas use is reduced...
The good news - Neal at CT rushed me an updated CARB EO sticker for the headers...
The not so good news - CARB "rules" require a COMPLETE smog retest (for another $20...) because the car "failed" the first test. Fortunately, the car's seven year old emission system didn't self destruct in the five days since its last test, and passed ALL the checks, so now every Californian can sleep well knowing that a smog fugitive has paid his debt to society...
If anyone else needs it, the revised EO number is 455-21, but be sure to get the sticker from CT before the test to keep the anal retentive smog nazis happy, and to keep $20 in your pocket....
The good news - Neal at CT rushed me an updated CARB EO sticker for the headers...
The not so good news - CARB "rules" require a COMPLETE smog retest (for another $20...) because the car "failed" the first test. Fortunately, the car's seven year old emission system didn't self destruct in the five days since its last test, and passed ALL the checks, so now every Californian can sleep well knowing that a smog fugitive has paid his debt to society...
If anyone else needs it, the revised EO number is 455-21, but be sure to get the sticker from CT before the test to keep the anal retentive smog nazis happy, and to keep $20 in your pocket....
Not true. I got a tint ticket in NYC when I was visiting. 15% isn't legal in Fl either. After review by the NYC court of appeals, I had to pay it. Also got 1 for a plate cover. That was dismissed.
I have also bee harassed by NYPD about my mufflers & stereo being too loud.
A cop can stop & ticket you. Whether that holds up being from out of state is the question. Most out of state people will rather pay the fine then to deal with the courts from their home state.
Sounds like you were asking to be pulled over. . .
I'm still baffled by how headers which yield better mpg's aren't allowed with out the CARB logo. Don't know how the tubes to transport gas would change the emissions other than lowering the amount of emissions since gas use is reduced...
Agree - Doesn't make sense that allowing more efficient combustion BEFORE the CAT would be an issue, especially when the installed units have VERY low emissions both before and after installation.... Would be interesting to see stats on the effect of adding headers on a car's baseline emissions.... Wouldn't it be cool if they ALL were shown to reduce (or at least not worsen) emissions....
Bump. The happened to me today. Passed my emissions smog with flying colors but my smog station that I've been going to for over 6 years with multiple cars failed my visual inspection. They claimed that the Comptech EO# D-455 is only for 1G CL, which is true. They showed me a print out from the Air Resources Board website.
After trying to call CT Engineering and getting their voicemail, I decided to try to tackle this on my own.
Eventually I found out that EO# D-455-8, which covers the Comptech header for my 2001 CL-S, supersedes EO# D-455-7, which supersedes EO# D-455-3, which supersedes EO# D-455.
I've printed out the documentation and am going to present them to the smog shop. Anyone needing this can try contacting Ct Engineering (I did not leave a message with them yet) or going to the above ARB links and printing the EO PDFs for the EO numbers I gave above.
That's strange I did my smog check 3 weeks ago and the tech took extra time to look at everything since I have a CAI and painted engine covers he wanted to make sure it was ok, I passed with no mention of the above.
I guess the tech actually ran the EO number on the headers this time. I've had these headers on my car for 2 other smog checks without any problems either. Until this time. I'm sure some see that it's CARB certified then they just figure it's fine.
Has anyone ran into this problem recently? It seems the EO number that covers this is either EO-455-17 or EO-455-21 but the problem with the early headers is the tag references EO-455-12 which only covers 1999 - 2002. I went to another shop and he said my best resolution is to take it to the referee since it is now in the system that I have non-compliant headers.
Has anyone ran into this problem recently? It seems the EO number that covers this is either EO-455-17 or EO-455-21 but the problem with the early headers is the tag references EO-455-12 which only covers 1999 - 2002. I went to another shop and he said my best resolution is to take it to the referee since it is now in the system that I have non-compliant headers.
I had this issue last year for smog in CA. I had a shop next door to where I used to work smog all my vehicles before, but left that job and had to take it to an unfamiliar shop. Basically, same thing, they said if I want to challenge it, call a referee and have it handled through them. So I emailed CT-E and Nate sent me a sticker, shop was ok with it enough to smog it again, but it was a hassle. The shop even told me to grind the 'old' plate and number off to save any confusion in the future.
I had this issue last year for smog in CA. I had a shop next door to where I used to work smog all my vehicles before, but left that job and had to take it to an unfamiliar shop. Basically, same thing, they said if I want to challenge it, call a referee and have it handled through them. So I emailed CT-E and Nate sent me a sticker, shop was ok with it enough to smog it again, but it was a hassle. The shop even told me to grind the 'old' plate and number off to save any confusion in the future.
Thanks bkrupp - I’ll see if I can catch up with Nate to help me clear this up.
Yes, please update us on how this goes..I'm about to install these headers on my car and would like to avoid this problem. Damn cali smog nazis...
what year is your car, and what CARB EO number are on your headers. Some of the time they match up and there's no issues. its worse with 03 acuras and 02 accords
what year is your car, and what CARB EO number are on your headers. Some of the time they match up and there's no issues. its worse with 03 acuras and 02 accords
mine is an 03 CL. As for the CARB EO, I dont know yet but I should soon because they are coming in the mail tomorrow so I will let you know. Which CARB EO #s work?
I kinda figured with your name you had an 03, just didn't type it before hitting submit. But if the EO number is for your year, you are cleared, if not, email CT-E and get that sticker sometime before your next smog.
As you all had said, contact CT Engineering and they can send you an updated EO sticker. The new header sticker references EO-455-21 as the most current and supersedes EO-455-12. I took it back to the smog shop that failed me and it was sufficient to satisfy him once I applied the new sticker under hood. Nate and CT Engineering are such a pleasure to deal with. I really wish there were other products I could purchase to continue to support them. They're still a first rate company.
As you all had said, contact CT Engineering and they can send you an updated EO sticker. The new header sticker references EO-455-21 as the most current and supersedes EO-455-12. I took it back to the smog shop that failed me and it was sufficient to satisfy him once I applied the new sticker under hood. Nate and CT Engineering are such a pleasure to deal with. I really wish there were other products I could purchase to continue to support them. They're still a first rate company.
I called and spoke to Nate. I hadn't spoken with Nate for years so it was a good chance to catch up. He's the one that let me drive the Comptech supercharged CLS-6 back in 2004 that convinced me I wanted one.
So I ended up buying a set of auto comptech headers with the -12 ending carb number and then I was lucky enough to find a 6-speed set that popped up which have the -21 ending carb number. The only difference in the carb # plate is that on the auto set, the numbers are protruding out like the were mold formed and on the 6-speed set, the last two numbers are stamped into the plate which almost doesnt look legitimate. I'm wondering if this is the way they came, because they dont look to have been tampered with...I'm just guessing that since they were constantly having to update their EO numbers and were probably very close to ending production for the 6-speed comptech headers, that rather than revising their tooling for the most current EO number, they just decided to stamp-in the final two numbers.
Does anyone have a pair of these with the similar stamped '21' rather than the protruding numbers like on my auto set of headers?
02-22-2011, 06:36 PM
Classic!
) because the car "failed" the first test. Fortunately, the car's seven year old emission system didn't self destruct in the five days since its last test, and passed ALL the checks, so now every Californian can sleep well knowing that a smog fugitive has paid his debt to society...
