InspireJ32A

In terms of cost, it was 5700 rubles for the disc (100 dollars), 8700 for the pressure plate (I had to buy the SAAB disc too; about 150 dollars for the entire kit), it'll be 11000 for the flywheel conversion (200 dollars), and 15000 for the 3rd gear set (250-ish dollars), Plus labor, and probably a throwout bearing, and a clutch fork. It's funny, the disc was advertised as Exedy, but the box contained one from Aisin (whatever, I guess you can even say I got lucky). Apparently someone ordered it back in 2014 (a testament to how rare manual Legend's are in Russia).

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I read that thread and I have to call shenanigans on the post and the poster. Why? Here are few reasons:

• Reviewing posts on this site, there are now some ten years of history and what, probably tens of millions of miles driven by the members here with Synchromesh in their 6MT cars. How many Synchromesh related failures have been reported? None.
• The poster talked of issues because Synchromesh "swells everything up in the transmission". Seriously? Granted I've never been inside of a Honda 6MT, but I cannot think of any alloys or other internal components which will swell in this transmission versus say, a GM transmission.
• The "carbon on the synchros" comment cracked me up, I call that a 100% fiction.
• If this 3rdGenHybrid character was legit, he would have posted pictures of the "swollen" parts and shown good examples of the damage he witnessed.
• The above aside, let's for the sake of argument say the Synchromesh isn't good for our transmissions for the long term. Okay, maybe. The thing is, the condition of my 3rd gear when I bought my car last May was bad enough a complete tear down would most likely have become necessary within ten to fifteen thousand miles; probably less. Yeah, about that; the transmission now has nearly 20,000 miles on it since I put the Synchromesh in and it still shifts as smooth as butter.

Long story short, unless 3rdGenHybrid, or someone comes up with some documented evidence Synchromesh is bad for these transmissions, I'm going to maintain his posts were completely fabricated bullshit.

InspireJ32A

It's very possible that you're right, but I'm still inclined to play it safe, granted, I haven't had issues with the OEM fluid after five years with this trans, the current problems probably being due to bad clutch disengagement.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

I suppose that's one way of looking at it. My perspective says it is playing it save by using Synchromesh in lieu of the Honda MTF which has long since been proven to be insufficient to the task of lubricating our transmissions.

As a side note, I know plenty of folks in the Mazda, BMW, and VW world who also swear by Synchromesh Friction Modified for their transmissions. With all of the mileage in all of those different transmissions, I'm quite sure we would have been long since alerted to an issue with the GM MTF.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

InspireJ32A, thanks for the pictures and the update. That's quite the extensive project you have there.

I read the thread that you posted and believe it or not I do recall going through that discussion back in the day.

I will say this, if possible, if you can query the individual, preferably before the rebuild, who specifically does the 3rd gear replacement, and ask him if he notices anything different about the old 3rd gear set and the new one that you purchased to replace.

After all, the part #'s were changed in the TSB, so I'm thinking maybe the 'difference' would be noticable enough, to the experience eye, to observe and document? I only say that because this (3rd gear) problem appears to happen randomly to some individuals and not others who still have the 'old' gear set running strong, like my '03 CL-S6.

In addition , if possible, post some pictures of that 'modded' single mass flywheel the shop is fabbing up for you when it's done. This Americansky wants to see the clever RF engineering improvisation.

Good Luck!

InspireJ32A

Perhaps, but one thing bothers me - why would he be making this up?

InspireJ32A

It's "Americanets" actually will do with the photos, but there's nothing particularly clever about it - that's just the way we roll "kolhoz" as we call it ("collective farm", it means pretty much the same thing as your expression "ghetto repair")

zeta

iTrader: (1)

LOL, Nice. I was trying to be politely diplomatic in my request and not get lost in cumbersome translation, hehe.

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Cannot speak to his motivation, however, I have seen far-FAR worse made up.

Regarding made up posts; hopefully have have a PhotoBucket account and can see the pictures posted in this thread from over ten years ago; talk about made up, yikes, what this guy did borders on criminal.

• Why you should change your oil at 20 miles **HUGE PICTURES - 8th Generation Honda Civic Forum

Note, to those of y'all who cannot see the pictures in the linked thread, the bozo who started the thread took machine shop scrap metal from drills and such, dumped it into some oil and claimed it came out of his (then) brand new Honda Civic.

InspireJ32A

It's all good, I don't have any illusions as to the nature of my little exercise ))

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Speaking of Synchromesh, look at post number 136 on Page 7 of the above linked thread; here's a guy who put Synchromesh in his Civic back in October of 2007.

InspireJ32A

That guy in the aforementioned post about Syncromesh on Azine did mention that he disassembled the transmission after 30000 miles - that does sound like a hell of a big interval between transmission fluid changes. Maybe he wasn't lying after all and the problem is simply down to not changing the oil in time?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm, per my Owner's Manual, the interval for draining the manual transmission and replacing the MTF is in fact, 30,000 miles. FWIW, I've been driving cars with manual transmissions since 1975 and prior to now I have never replaced the MTF in any of the cars except my BMWs, and that was only to put Red Line (dramatically helped shifting in very cold temperatures following a cold start) oil in shortly after buying the cars and then leaving it in for the life of the vehicle.

InspireJ32A

I change my fluid every 20000 kilometers (that's about 12500 miles). Anyway, I really want to make a balanced decision whether to use Syncromesh or not... You said Honda OEM fluid isn't up to the task of lubricating our gearboxes, what makes you say that?

horseshoez

iTrader: (2)

While the shifting issues using Honda MTF aren't universal, the percentage of transmissions which experience issues are extremely high. I don't have any hard numbers, but my impression from reading posts here and on other Honda related forums are transmissions running Honda MTF experience shifting issues in well beyond 50% of the cases, and yet of the transmissions with issues, Synchromesh generally fixes the issue immediately. To me, a failure rate even approaching 20% is high, 50% is a solid indictment of Honda MTF.

InspireJ32A

Well... Maybe it's down to the DEC6/ATC6 gearbox having some sort of design flaw, and not to the MTF. Where I'm from, I've never heard anyone complaining about Honda MTF, and the shops that I visit - they know their shite for sure. The people working there are affiliated with our local Honda owners clubs, Accord, Prelude, Civic and whatnot (Inspires and TL's are extremely rare though; actually, Inspires are quite common in Russia, but not so much in Moscow, I've literally only seen about ten cars in the last 3-4 years; haven't seen 3rd gens for years, although they're quite popular in neighboring Belarus, but I have seen a 4th gen recently, and there are a few TLX's driving around; anyway, sorry, I'm rambling). So yeah, they use exclusively Honda MTF, and I've never ever heard anyone speak of any problems inherent to the fluid or of any truly viable alternative solutions. We do hear a lot about oil with higher viscosity that helps with noise and with grinding, but the general consensus is that it does tend to wear down the transmission more rapidly. We've seen quite a lot of that.

Here's another thought: maybe we get a different kind of MTF in Europe?

zeta

iTrader: (1)

See that's why I'm kind of confused and probably mostly just lucky, because I ran Honda MTF until Dec 2015 (13 years) and did not have any issues with shifting/grinding/notchiness et al.

I read on here the raves about Syncromesh and decided to give it a try just to see if it would, somehow, improve on an already 'good thing' and did not really notice a 'Revelatious' difference. Though, I suppose if I were having the worrisome 3rd gear grind/popping out of gear symptoms exampled in the TSB, put in Syncromesh and it corrected those symptoms, then I certainly would of been very happy.

That's why I think they 'reengineered the 3rd gear set, in some way, that corrected the issue permanently, though I have no specific proof.

InspireJ32A

Oh wow, so you've had your CL for 16 years now? That's quite powerful. I'd probably still be driving my Prelude (which my current gearbox used to be a part of), if it hadn't been totalled.
Same here, for five years I haven't had any inherent issues come up with this box. The current third gear trouble seems to be a result of my flywheel going bad and the resulting abnormal clutch engagement. In the past I've missed third when revving the car like crazy, and I've done this on multiple occasions - the box didn't really seem to mind. And I've had maybe a handful of times when third would ever so slightly grind even when I nailed the shift, but otherwise third has always kind of treated me nicely. I remember screwing up 1-2 gears, but that was completely a cock-up on my part (I panicked a bit when my clutch pedal stuck to the floor one time, so I forced the shifter into first and destroyed the sleeve/syncro, shortly after that my flywheel started to give way, and second gear decided to join the party).

InspireJ32A

I'll definitely look into the differences between the new set and the one currently on my car. The only thing is I bought this box back in 2013, so someone might have rebuilt it at some point before it was shipped over from your shores.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

lol, yeah. The car I had before the CL was a '99 Civic SI. After having it broken into three times, in three years, and putting 50K on the clock, I decided that I did not need the aggravation anymore. The po po told me after having the second break in that gangbangers from Miami would come up to Ft. Lauderdale and cruise apartment/condo complexes trolling for 'targets'. Well, to say the least, they just loved the DOHC 4 cylinder in those Civics, so it was targeted outright. Funny thing is they would pop the hood by pulling the cable at the latch with a needle nose plyars, disconnect the battery, to disable any factory/aftermarket alarm system. Then they would pry the driver window open at the top, because some dumbsh*t engineer did not design a 'frame', at the top, for the window lip to rest into, just a soft rubber gasket, A MAJOR FLAW. Then pop the door latch and gain access. The only thing was when they got inside the car they found a 'club' on the steering wheel, which was NOT intimidating to them at all and were prepared to deal with, by cutting the steering wheel with a hacksaw, because you could see it through the window, lol. However, what they could not see was the heavy 'clutch pedal lock' fastened securely underneath, hehe. Then, IF, that would not of stopped them they still would have had to figure out where I put the ignition 'kill switch' installed by the LOJACK peeps. So, usually they would not waste much more time and would just GTFO quickly after being cerebrally defeated, lol. I ran Honda MTF in that thing as well.

InspireJ32A

That's the beauty of owning a right-hand drive car where I'm from the chances of it being stolen are almost non-existent. There have been some really strange occurances, like Toyota Caldina GT-T's, which are rather rare in Moscow, would get stolen - but that's definitely a fluke, I don't know why anyone in their right mind would steal a car like that in my region. It's mostly BMW's, Mercedes, Toyota Camrys that are popular among theives, which then tend to go to the Caucasas - Chechnya, Degestan and so on - which is our version of the wild west in the year 2018 X)) The older Accords (Euro-spec, which you got in the form of the Acura TSX) would get stolen quite a lot. JDM cars get stolen quite a bit in the eastern regions, with Vladivostok being right next to Japan and about maybe 70-80 percent of the cars there being Japanese imports. It used to be so cool to have so much JDM variety over here, but at one point the government put an end to that...(

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
Back then, in '99 and onward over here, that's when the 'swap' scene was just starting to get popular, at least where I was, so the DOHC B16A2's and B18A1's, I believe, in the Acura/Honda Intergra/Civic SI's were being harvested by any means possible, so the cars that had them were targeted.

Now, it's come full circle, and the manual transmission J series (2003 CLS6) are popular for swaps/thieves, even with the NSX folks who don't want the expense of dealing with a blown C30A;C32B. I have to keep mine in the garage, unfortunately, in the area I dwell in.

On a different note, did you visit the 'polling' station for your election today?

InspireJ32A

No, I did not... I really don't see the point, Putin's opponents are vetted and fake, Navalniy (who I probably would've voted for) wasn't allowed to run for president. So I'm just gonna spend the day chilling, probably go to my favorite hookah place and relax.
Judging by your words - there is some beauty to living in Russia after all) Rich people here are all about Mercedes, Porsche, BMW M and other expensive German equipment, the tuning scene is all about turbocharged VW, Skodas and Fords that've gone through some form of "stage" bullshit (stage 1, stage 2 and whatever). So no need to worry about my car, really, theives couldn't care less But I'm proud to say that there is a small, but strong J-series scene here. People swap these motors into your standard Civics, Preludes, S2000's, RX-8's, but we've got a few crazy ones also. https://www.drive2.ru/r/moskvich/288230376151818301/ - this is a Moskvitch, it's a Russian shitbox, but this one has an AWD Subaru tranny, a J32A2 and a turbo =)

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your response & candor. Here's to the 2024 election cycle where, perhaps, you all will have a set of candidates that you can individually pick as your own.

Yeah, for all socioeconomic/geographic classes of folks here (poor, middle class, rich), there is always the spectre of crime; however, it is not an experienced 'day in day out' occurrence, just to clarify. Those three 'break-in's' to my Honda Civic, back in '99-2002 were a consistent anomaly during that time because of that car. However, since then (like 15 years+) I've not been a victim, even though I live in an area where crime is a 'higher probability' , and as a result of those experiences, though, one takes 'steps' to be 'situationally aware' to minimize further occurrences. It's part of day to day living, anywhere.

I bet that car on the link you supplied sounds 'crazy' in the higher rpm's.

InspireJ32A

Assuming nobody does anything stupid and we don't blow each other up - 2024 might be an interesting year indead )) I can look for a video of this Moskvitch racing a Soarer if you're curious as to how it sounds.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Since you opened up the door, let me ask you something. You do not have to answer and it will be all good on this end.

When the RF president gives his annual marathon news briefing and vaguely talks of the use of low yield nuclear devices and such, is it really directed at the Russian populous for 'internal consumption', for the resumption of power, or does he really think that the West is out for 'regime change' and leverages the use of nukes to stymie that illusion (of regime change)?

InspireJ32A

Honestly, I don't have a good answer to that question. I want to say it's a little bit of both, but I really don't know what's on his mind.

InspireJ32A

Ok, here we go. I'm not exactly sure what they've done to it, but you can tell they machined some sort of metal casing piece for the hub (instead of the factory bearing), using it to kind of rivet the two masses together and weld them a bit. The welds on the transmission side were just for good measure, they weren't completely necessary. For reference - here's how this axact same flywheel used to look:

zeta

iTrader: (1)

^
Nice job! Tell your bois over at the shop that they have some interesting skillsets.

Did the transmission rebuilder give you any indication as to how bad the condition of the old 3rd gear set was in comparison to the new?
If possible, try to get some pictures of the 'worn' syncros parts versus new and such as well.

InspireJ32A

I've asked them for some photos, but they seem to be pretty busy, so I'll have to go over to take some pictures myself. They just took it apart today, and it will stay that way for a while (until they fix the bell housing).

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Here are some that I think are from a '3rd gear' in another old thread, have a look. They are the best I could find. You can see how the 'brass' colored syncros has been worn flat in one of the pictures.

Click on the 'blue' arrow next to the username and it will take you to the thread that has the pictures. There are alot more of the whole trans assembly for a CLS6 and TL-6.

InspireJ32A

Hi. I was actually thinking about what 3rdGenHybrid wrote about the Syncromesh, and I'm starting to feel that he wasn't telling the truth after all. What tipped me off was him hearing a "bearing noise". I actually replaced the bearings in my transmission, the old ones were barbequed, like, completely wasted. And there was never any sort of noise coming from the box that would indicate them being in the sad state they were. So this dude hearing a "bearing noise" seems pretty unlikely to the point where he probably made that up. I suppose he could've also made up his story about Syncromesh. I'll give it a try next time I bring the box in for repairs, which will be in about a month (still some gears in there which need replacement). Honda OEM for now though.