Joe5.0

I was driving this morning going ~ 45mph in 5th gear, no aggressive driving just driving home from work.

I hit a small expansion joint in the road, really not anything harsh but enough to feel it, and all of a sudden the engine was completely OFF. Dash lights still on, but no engine power.

I pulled into a parking lot and tried to get it to fire up, but it just cranks and cranks and cranks with ZERO sign of wanting to start.

I pulled a plug and it had no fuel smell and was not fouled out, so I doubt the cylinders are getting any fuel. I also checked for spark and couldnt see ANY spark with grounding the spark plug against the EGR housing.

Any ideas where to start first? The car has ran 110% perfect lately, so I am not thinking its a bad fuel pump.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Any bad sounds when it died?
does it crank over at normal speed ?

Joe5.0

Cranks over completely normal, no grinding or weird sounds. I didnt even know the engine stopped running until I gave it more gas and noticed it was at zero rpm.

Timing belt replaced ~ 35k miles ago.

AustinTaper

Alternator, distributor, maybe spark plug is loose?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

Have you checked if your getting fuel and spark ?

Joe5.0

Def not alternator, as the battery will literally sit there and crank for as long as I want.

Our cars dont have a distributor.

No loose spark plugs. It would still start up with a loose plug or broken COP, would just run rough.

Joe5.0

Havent checked for fuel yet, whats the best way to check for that? Is there a check valve somewhere underhood? When I pulled the spark plug there was ZERO fuel smell, if that matters at all.

I pulled the front middle plug and put it back in the coil, grounded the side of the spark plug to the EGR housing, and had my wife crank the car. I couldnt see ANY spark at all. Is that the correct process for checking spark with coil on plug? I assume the EGR housing area is grounded since its literally bolted to the engine.

A418t81

iTrader: (1)

If there's no fuel smell after extended cranking then it could be a few things. I'd pull a coil/plug combo and see if you have spark. If so, the ecu is getting the trigger signal and it's likely a fuel pump, or fuel pump relay. If there's no spark or fuel then there's an ECU or crank trigger problem. You could have popped a fuse to the line the ECU is on, I'd start there. Could be a bad crank angle sensor, a bad ecu, or a short in the wiring. Thing is, it should throw a code for these issues. Can a scan tool communicate with the ecu?

Joe5.0

I pulled a plug and tried to check for spark and couldnt see any at all.

I assume I did it correct by placing the threads of the spark plug against the EGR housing and cranking the engine?

It does seem like its not getting spark or fuel, so the ECU is either not getting a signal or not outputting a signal.

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

u definitely knocked something loose. fuse or relay died on you is my guess. maybe a switch broke or something.

fuel pump relay or main relay even??? i heard they die on our cars kinda easy..

there is no way it's a big problem like a coil or alt.. its gotta be something loose, dislodged or broken... if u are dead sure it happened after the expansion joint u went over then it's gotta be the culprit. check the little things first, people always overlook the little thing when they have a big problem... my money is on something small. I bet you

AnthraciteTypeS

Have someone turn the key halfway forward and get out under the tank and listen if it primes.. I'd start there

Joe5.0

Cant hear the fuel pump prime at all, I pulled the cover off it in the trunk and I would assume I would beable to hear a faint whine from right there, correct?

Also, where is the ECU located in these cars?

jkr_j32a2

This happened to my car and that's what the problem was.

Joe5.0

I've got the main relay out and It LOOKS ok, no broken solder points at all.

Is there any way to test it? No stores have one in stock or else I would just go buy one.

Joe5.0

Found a local store that had a main relay in stock, and it didnt fix the problem at all.

I still dont think I am getting spark though, because I see NO spark when I put the plug on the bolt for the EGR. This is the correct way to check for spark, right?

typeR

theres an ignition fuse and fuel pump in the passenger side dash fuse box also ... do you have another key ? if for what ever reason the ignition isnt regestering the code in your key the car would turn over but would not fire

Joe5.0

I've tried both keys plus the Valet key, just in case.

Those fuses are the first ones I checked and they look fine.

BTW guys thanks for all the suggestions, I appreciate the help.

typeR

well its worth a look dunno how hard it is to inspoect timing belt but even though its new if the tensioner failed it could have burned it up ...there was a TSB on the tensioner

RooEng

Is the MIL on? Have you checked for any codes?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Is there any way you can test the fuel pump itself?

EDIT - Just reread, youre not getting spark either.

Check all the grounds. Its a large task but thats what it sounds like to me.

Joe5.0

I took off the bolts holding the front part of the cover but i couldnt get it away enough to see inside. I know its possible, but I had the belt/tensioner/water pump replaced with all better than OEM stuff.

Also, wouldnt it at least throw a code if the belt or tensioner broke?

Joe5.0

No warning lights at all, and there hasnt been at any point.

Joe5.0

I was wondering the same thing about the fuel pump, like I said I cant hear it priming at all, and there is def no fuel getting to the pistons, as the spark plugs are bone dry.

Is there is a list of grounds available somewhere?

Also I REALLY REALLY hope its not the crankshaft position sensor, because for some ungodly reason its $800+ for the stupid little sensor. For an automatic its under $100........

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

The crankshaft position sensor is $75.

The second crankshaft position sensor (the one on the transmission) is $120, but the engine will still crank over and run very rough without it.

Joe5.0

Well I must have been given some incorrect information then. This is what Autozone lists for 'Crankshaft Position Sensor', for a 03 6 speed. - http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par...28410_0_0_3498

So you're saying it basically cant be this sensor, since the car would still start if it were bad?

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Thats insane.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

#39, PN 37500-PGE-A11

Ive run the car in limp mode with the secondary CPS unplugged. Im not sure about the primary. I would guess it wouldnt run without it.

Joe5.0

Any idea what the part # for the secondary sensor?

Do you think if either of these were bad would it make the computer not provide spark AND fuel?

And thanks a bunch for the reference number, I feel alot better now.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Secondary CPS:

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...All&vinsrch=no

#13 PN 37506-PGE-A12


Im not sure if it will cut spark and fuel if it sees an issue with the CPS. Out of curiosity, have you disconnected the battery for a few minutes and tried to start it?

Joe5.0

Oh yeah, thats the first thing I did. While I was going to get a trailer I left it unplugged too, so it was unplugged for a good 4-5 hours, no difference.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

For some reason I keep thinking ECU ground.

What work has been done to the car in the past month?

Joe5.0

Absolutely nothing. Its my daily driver and the last thing I have done is change the oil about 2 months ago.

No computer mods at all, and as a matter of fact I dont even know where the ECU is located! Where is the ground for it, I'm sure I can check it real quick.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

I dont know where the ground is, but the ECU is on the center tunnel under the dash. If you pull the carpet you can see it.

Woofer

Sounds like what happened with the two Vigor's I owned, take the lower part of the steering column off and look for any signs of solder. For some reason the steering switch would get hot and I would see a couple drops of solder on the carpet.

The part I am referring to is #9 on this page, worth checking if you have looked at everything else.

http://www.hondapartsunlimited.com/f...ATION%20SWITCH

Joe5.0

Found the problem!

The injector wiring harness that is under the upper intake had worn through and was grounding out on the intake. 175k miles of vibration basically caused it, nothing more.

It kept blowing a fuse underhood so the computer wasnt getting power.

I took it to a local auto electric place and I am really happy I did, because I would have been throwing parts at it and pissing in the wind.

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

CL-S progression 01

iTrader: (2)

wow never would have even thought about that... nice going bud glad to see ur troubles are over.

Joe5.0

Thanks, yeah I dont think I've ever read about that happening with the CL-S.

Oh well, she keeps motoring on........

Jmoney6

Read stories on the w124 mercedes e-class. They used a biodegradable harness for what ever reason that usually failed every 75-100k miles.
Ask me how I know

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

^ I wonder who thought that would be a great idea