To Build A J35A3 Short Block + J32A2 Heads??
02-24-2013, 12:40 PM
#81
This means, however, that the 20hp difference between the j35a3 and the j32a2 is more than likely due to the ECM (I doubt the .07mm difference between the exhaust lobe on the cam makes hardly ANY) itself which really amazes me now. Because the a3 is a larger displacement motor, I bet running the j32a2 ecm on it would bring above a 20hp gain. Maybe closer to 30-40hp...which coincides with Stephen00TL's range of 275-300hp....putting it at an optimistic 280hp. This tells alot about the phrase you always hear on forums about there being "power in the tune". Even Acura officially states that the j32a2 ECM is "highly tuned for optimal performance with its associated parts". Unfortunately, this tune can be easily "lost" by changing something in the engine itself, the exhaust or the intake. Even if you are making a change for the better (ie: CAI). That's not to say that the performance will decrease although it can. In all actuality, its best/optimal to tune the motor anytime a hard part has been modified or replaced. Something to think about for all those who don't think there's much to be had from purchasing a standalone ecu. This is quite possibly the best thing that can be added to your car after making various, drastic changes thought the powertrain...assuming the tuner knows what he's doing AND the hardware/software in the engine management is of excellent design and quality. One exception to the whole engine management/standalone ecu thing- its NEVER better to throw out a stock or factory ecu IF there's a way to tune/program it. The stock ECM is incomparable to any piece of equipment AEM, etc could ever think about making. This is because Acura (or whatever manufacturer you're dealing with) has way more R&D into their parts than any aftermarket company could think about doing...in most cases.
I'd also like to say I've never tuned an engine a day in my life in regards to EFI used in conjunction with NA/FI so there's alot of the playing field I know nothing about. But, I've been a drivability diagnostic technician (alongside body and chassis too) for many years. So there's alot that I DO know. I'm aware of the complexities and dynamics involved with a proper running engine. Just a disclaimer in case somebody wants to dispute something I wrote or make an argument. I'm speaking from my own opinion.
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Stephen00TL (02-24-2013)
02-24-2013, 05:56 PM
#82
Chapter Leader (Southeast Region)
I stand corrected.
This means, however, that the 20hp difference between the j35a3 and the j32a2 is more than likely due to the ECM (I doubt the .07mm difference between the exhaust lobe on the cam makes hardly ANY) itself which really amazes me now. Because the a3 is a larger displacement motor, I bet running the j32a2 ecm on it would bring above a 20hp gain. Maybe closer to 30-40hp...which coincides with Stephen00TL's range of 275-300hp....putting it at an optimistic 280hp. This tells alot about the phrase you always hear on forums about there being "power in the tune". Even Acura officially states that the j32a2 ECM is "highly tuned for optimal performance with its associated parts". Unfortunately, this tune can be easily "lost" by changing something in the engine itself, the exhaust or the intake. Even if you are making a change for the better (ie: CAI). That's not to say that the performance will decrease although it can. In all actuality, its best/optimal to tune the motor anytime a hard part has been modified or replaced. Something to think about for all those who don't think there's much to be had from purchasing a standalone ecu. This is quite possibly the best thing that can be added to your car after making various, drastic changes thought the powertrain...assuming the tuner knows what he's doing AND the hardware/software in the engine management is of excellent design and quality. One exception to the whole engine management/standalone ecu thing- its NEVER better to throw out a stock or factory ecu IF there's a way to tune/program it. The stock ECM is incomparable to any piece of equipment AEM, etc could ever think about making. This is because Acura (or whatever manufacturer you're dealing with) has way more R&D into their parts than any aftermarket company could think about doing...in most cases.
I'd also like to say I've never tuned an engine a day in my life in regards to EFI used in conjunction with NA/FI so there's alot of the playing field I know nothing about. But, I've been a drivability diagnostic technician (alongside body and chassis too) for many years. So there's alot that I DO know. I'm aware of the complexities and dynamics involved with a proper running engine. Just a disclaimer in case somebody wants to dispute something I wrote or make an argument. I'm speaking from my own opinion.
This means, however, that the 20hp difference between the j35a3 and the j32a2 is more than likely due to the ECM (I doubt the .07mm difference between the exhaust lobe on the cam makes hardly ANY) itself which really amazes me now. Because the a3 is a larger displacement motor, I bet running the j32a2 ecm on it would bring above a 20hp gain. Maybe closer to 30-40hp...which coincides with Stephen00TL's range of 275-300hp....putting it at an optimistic 280hp. This tells alot about the phrase you always hear on forums about there being "power in the tune". Even Acura officially states that the j32a2 ECM is "highly tuned for optimal performance with its associated parts". Unfortunately, this tune can be easily "lost" by changing something in the engine itself, the exhaust or the intake. Even if you are making a change for the better (ie: CAI). That's not to say that the performance will decrease although it can. In all actuality, its best/optimal to tune the motor anytime a hard part has been modified or replaced. Something to think about for all those who don't think there's much to be had from purchasing a standalone ecu. This is quite possibly the best thing that can be added to your car after making various, drastic changes thought the powertrain...assuming the tuner knows what he's doing AND the hardware/software in the engine management is of excellent design and quality. One exception to the whole engine management/standalone ecu thing- its NEVER better to throw out a stock or factory ecu IF there's a way to tune/program it. The stock ECM is incomparable to any piece of equipment AEM, etc could ever think about making. This is because Acura (or whatever manufacturer you're dealing with) has way more R&D into their parts than any aftermarket company could think about doing...in most cases.
I'd also like to say I've never tuned an engine a day in my life in regards to EFI used in conjunction with NA/FI so there's alot of the playing field I know nothing about. But, I've been a drivability diagnostic technician (alongside body and chassis too) for many years. So there's alot that I DO know. I'm aware of the complexities and dynamics involved with a proper running engine. Just a disclaimer in case somebody wants to dispute something I wrote or make an argument. I'm speaking from my own opinion.
02-24-2013, 09:19 PM
#83
thanks, I figured a lot of the difference in power was due to a different ecu because you would not need a high horsepower engine in a luxury SUV. However you may need to occasionally pull a trailer or extra people in the car so you want increased torque. I'm planning on running a type S ecu but i'm looking into doing a standalone ecu. In fact i just got a type s gauge cluster last week so the swap has begun
Lastly, I posted a new thread in the black market that would help along with what you're doing.
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Stephen00TL (02-25-2013)
02-24-2013, 10:19 PM
#84
Chapter Leader (Southeast Region)
Be sure and replace the cam in the j35a3 as its designed for torque. That would be the only other thing I'd do. You mentioned using other cams earlier so I'm sure that already been thought of. I'm certain the profile of it would greatly affect your purpose.
Lastly, I posted a new thread in the black market that would help along with what you're doing.
Lastly, I posted a new thread in the black market that would help along with what you're doing.
02-25-2013, 12:07 PM
#85
Senior Moderator
I stand corrected.
This means, however, that the 20hp difference between the j35a3 and the j32a2 is more than likely due to the ECM (I doubt the .07mm difference between the exhaust lobe on the cam makes hardly ANY) itself which really amazes me now. Because the a3 is a larger displacement motor, I bet running the j32a2 ecm on it would bring above a 20hp gain. Maybe closer to 30-40hp...which coincides with Stephen00TL's range of 275-300hp....putting it at an optimistic 280hp. This tells alot about the phrase you always hear on forums about there being "power in the tune". Even Acura officially states that the j32a2 ECM is "highly tuned for optimal performance with its associated parts". Unfortunately, this tune can be easily "lost" by changing something in the engine itself, the exhaust or the intake. Even if you are making a change for the better (ie: CAI). That's not to say that the performance will decrease although it can. In all actuality, its best/optimal to tune the motor anytime a hard part has been modified or replaced. Something to think about for all those who don't think there's much to be had from purchasing a standalone ecu. This is quite possibly the best thing that can be added to your car after making various, drastic changes thought the powertrain...assuming the tuner knows what he's doing AND the hardware/software in the engine management is of excellent design and quality. One exception to the whole engine management/standalone ecu thing- its NEVER better to throw out a stock or factory ecu IF there's a way to tune/program it. The stock ECM is incomparable to any piece of equipment AEM, etc could ever think about making. This is because Acura (or whatever manufacturer you're dealing with) has way more R&D into their parts than any aftermarket company could think about doing...in most cases.
I'd also like to say I've never tuned an engine a day in my life in regards to EFI used in conjunction with NA/FI so there's alot of the playing field I know nothing about. But, I've been a drivability diagnostic technician (alongside body and chassis too) for many years. So there's alot that I DO know. I'm aware of the complexities and dynamics involved with a proper running engine. Just a disclaimer in case somebody wants to dispute something I wrote or make an argument. I'm speaking from my own opinion.
This means, however, that the 20hp difference between the j35a3 and the j32a2 is more than likely due to the ECM (I doubt the .07mm difference between the exhaust lobe on the cam makes hardly ANY) itself which really amazes me now. Because the a3 is a larger displacement motor, I bet running the j32a2 ecm on it would bring above a 20hp gain. Maybe closer to 30-40hp...which coincides with Stephen00TL's range of 275-300hp....putting it at an optimistic 280hp. This tells alot about the phrase you always hear on forums about there being "power in the tune". Even Acura officially states that the j32a2 ECM is "highly tuned for optimal performance with its associated parts". Unfortunately, this tune can be easily "lost" by changing something in the engine itself, the exhaust or the intake. Even if you are making a change for the better (ie: CAI). That's not to say that the performance will decrease although it can. In all actuality, its best/optimal to tune the motor anytime a hard part has been modified or replaced. Something to think about for all those who don't think there's much to be had from purchasing a standalone ecu. This is quite possibly the best thing that can be added to your car after making various, drastic changes thought the powertrain...assuming the tuner knows what he's doing AND the hardware/software in the engine management is of excellent design and quality. One exception to the whole engine management/standalone ecu thing- its NEVER better to throw out a stock or factory ecu IF there's a way to tune/program it. The stock ECM is incomparable to any piece of equipment AEM, etc could ever think about making. This is because Acura (or whatever manufacturer you're dealing with) has way more R&D into their parts than any aftermarket company could think about doing...in most cases.
I'd also like to say I've never tuned an engine a day in my life in regards to EFI used in conjunction with NA/FI so there's alot of the playing field I know nothing about. But, I've been a drivability diagnostic technician (alongside body and chassis too) for many years. So there's alot that I DO know. I'm aware of the complexities and dynamics involved with a proper running engine. Just a disclaimer in case somebody wants to dispute something I wrote or make an argument. I'm speaking from my own opinion.
02-25-2013, 12:08 PM
#86
Senior Moderator
Be sure and replace the cam in the j35a3 as its designed for torque. That would be the only other thing I'd do. You mentioned using other cams earlier so I'm sure that already been thought of. I'm certain the profile of it would greatly affect your purpose.
Lastly, I posted a new thread in the black market that would help along with what you're doing.
Lastly, I posted a new thread in the black market that would help along with what you're doing.
and most likely where the hp difference is also between the 2 engines.
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Stephen00TL (02-25-2013)
02-26-2013, 11:40 PM
#88
I have to ask, why not use the RL cams? Prior to VTEC, the intake valves are nearly .2mm higher on each valve (both j35a8 motors do not have swirl supporting valve steps) and about .15mm on both valves during VTEC. Those values may not appear to be much, but when youre dealing with a static valve lift of 35.1mm total...adding an additional .2mm is definitely contributing to power.
If its a rotating mass you're concerned about, you are saving around 1lb in the cams which isn't approaching something as significant as say a flywheel or harmonc balancer.
02-26-2013, 11:49 PM
#89
On a side note I should have the old engine out tomorrow. I've been procrastinating big time since I've been enjoying driving the 08 tls. I'll post another update soon.
02-27-2013, 06:51 AM
#90
Senior Moderator
I'm currently in the process of coming up with a potential tuning solution for the guys with 1st gen motors that involves a much different approach than has ever been taken here or anywhere else. There are many things that I must factor but let me just say, I have a solution...wether or not if its cost effective, we'll see.
You, my friend, could be entirely correct. But who really knows. Being these two (ecm and cam) have been narrowed down as the restricting components, Stepen00TL has made the smart coice in replacing both.
I have to ask, why not use the RL cams? Prior to VTEC, the intake valves are nearly .2mm higher on each valve (both j35a8 motors do not have swirl supporting valve steps) and about .15mm on both valves during VTEC. Those values may not appear to be much, but when youre dealing with a static valve lift of 35.1mm total...adding an additional .2mm is definitely contributing to power.
If its a rotating mass you're concerned about, you are saving around 1lb in the cams which isn't approaching something as significant as say a flywheel or harmonc balancer/damper.
You, my friend, could be entirely correct. But who really knows. Being these two (ecm and cam) have been narrowed down as the restricting components, Stepen00TL has made the smart coice in replacing both.
I have to ask, why not use the RL cams? Prior to VTEC, the intake valves are nearly .2mm higher on each valve (both j35a8 motors do not have swirl supporting valve steps) and about .15mm on both valves during VTEC. Those values may not appear to be much, but when youre dealing with a static valve lift of 35.1mm total...adding an additional .2mm is definitely contributing to power.
If its a rotating mass you're concerned about, you are saving around 1lb in the cams which isn't approaching something as significant as say a flywheel or harmonc balancer/damper.
Another thing that could be a factor in the hp difference is the MDX has the manifold spacer. Longer runners typically aid in more torque and sometimes slightly less tq.
Also we dont have a harmonic balancer, our motors are internally balanced. We have a harmonic damper solely for NVH purposes.
02-27-2013, 07:39 AM
#91
Awesome, hopefully it pans out. Any clues as to what it may be?
Another thing that could be a factor in the hp difference is the MDX has the manifold spacer. Longer runners typically aid in more torque and sometimes slightly less tq.
Also we dont have a harmonic balancer, our motors are internally balanced. We have a harmonic damper solely for NVH purposes.
Another thing that could be a factor in the hp difference is the MDX has the manifold spacer. Longer runners typically aid in more torque and sometimes slightly less tq.
Also we dont have a harmonic balancer, our motors are internally balanced. We have a harmonic damper solely for NVH purposes.
As for harmonic balancer term, I was generalizing about all motors in regards to cutting such little weight in comparison to large components. I'm ole skool man, before turbo Acura motors in a Honda, it was big cam Chevy's shoehorned into S10 pickups with LT1 6-speed transmissions. Lmao...
02-27-2013, 01:04 PM
#93
There are only two variations of cams (excluding 09 and up j35 and j37 cams) that we use: the "long" 1st gen cams from the 03 and below j-series (04 and below for the j30's) and then there's the "short" (by 2mm) cams from the 2nd gen j-series that are found in 04 and up Acura engines or 03 and Honda engines. The newer cams (09 and up) will physically fit into the head BUT have different design to allow for VTEC on exhaust...as do the heads.
02-27-2013, 03:02 PM
#96
Chapter Leader (Southeast Region)
So are the rl cams the same length as the 07-08 tls cams? Meaning I'll need the same spacer as the 07-08tls cams. Just want to make sure I get this right before I start ordering parts
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Stephen00TL (02-27-2013)
02-27-2013, 06:24 PM
#99
You want everything to sit as close to oem possible.
rear cam is 3mm shorter
front cam is 5mm shorter
To me using a 5mm spacer on the front cam is to thick for my liking so the cam gear fits into the key slot on the cam.
I did 3mm on both so the gears would fit nicely.
Only problem was getting the cam sensors to clear the gear with the 3mm spacer on the front.
Good luck on 2mm spacers the cam gear itself would rub the cam sensor plate.
2mm should not even be metioned because it will not work in anyway.
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Stephen00TL (02-27-2013)
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Stephen00TL (02-27-2013)
02-27-2013, 08:22 PM
#101
rear cam is 3mm shorter
front cam is 5mm shorter
To me using a 5mm spacer on the front cam is to thick for my liking so the cam gear fits into the key slot on the cam.
I did 3mm on both so the gears would fit nicely.
Only problem was getting the cam sensors to clear the gear with the 3mm spacer on the front.
front cam is 5mm shorter
To me using a 5mm spacer on the front cam is to thick for my liking so the cam gear fits into the key slot on the cam.
I did 3mm on both so the gears would fit nicely.
Only problem was getting the cam sensors to clear the gear with the 3mm spacer on the front.
02-28-2013, 03:52 PM
#102
Senior Moderator
No clues right now. There's only people on this board this board that I have explained it to and they were sworn to secrecy...not really. I just want to ensure its as easy as I think it may be. The concept I'm certain of. Now that I think about it, there's many clues in my build thread. ;-)
As for harmonic balancer term, I was generalizing about all motors in regards to cutting such little weight in comparison to large components. I'm ole skool man, before turbo Acura motors in a Honda, it was big cam Chevy's shoehorned into S10 pickups with LT1 6-speed transmissions. Lmao...
As for harmonic balancer term, I was generalizing about all motors in regards to cutting such little weight in comparison to large components. I'm ole skool man, before turbo Acura motors in a Honda, it was big cam Chevy's shoehorned into S10 pickups with LT1 6-speed transmissions. Lmao...
Can you think of any reason the 07-8 TL-S ecu couldnt work on a gen 1 J? I dont see any reason y not?
03-06-2013, 10:32 PM
#105
I agree it will. I used to already walk the hell out of it with the 3.2!! I would beat up on my girlfriends 07 tls too lol. It's not fair because mod for mod I think the tl would be faster since it has the better engine. I still love the tls though it's quite, smooth riding, auto trans, bigger inside, newer, etc. I like driving a oem car to get away from the cl but boy do I miss it!
Here's some old pics of them both sitting together. Also my gf's WDP 07 tls. The NBP 08 tls a spec is still exactly the same till this day lol.
Here's some old pics of them both sitting together. Also my gf's WDP 07 tls. The NBP 08 tls a spec is still exactly the same till this day lol.
03-07-2013, 02:25 PM
#107
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1foxbody (03-07-2013)
03-15-2013, 12:01 AM
#109
I have a little update for you guys. Did a compression check because it didn't seem like the engine was 100% lately, I took the original engine out, found out I had a blown head gasket between cylinders 5 and 6 when tearing it down, not the worst I've seen but enough to make it feel like I had a slight misfire. Tops of the pistons, cylinder walls, and heads look great for not pulling any timing while still using the oem pcm while spraying a 200 shot lol.
Compared the cl vs mdx velocity stack length. Sending my clutch out to clutch masters to make a custom disc, replace the steel plate on the flywheel, and resurface the pressure plate so everything is fresh while it's out. Also sending my cams to gude performance to get re ground. Ordering arp head studs part number 208-4307 if anyone needs them too. Last but not least ordering supertech valve springs and retainers. That should get the ball rolling again. I've procrastinated long enough haha.
Don't mind how dirty the car is, I haven't washed it in months.
Compared the cl vs mdx velocity stack length. Sending my clutch out to clutch masters to make a custom disc, replace the steel plate on the flywheel, and resurface the pressure plate so everything is fresh while it's out. Also sending my cams to gude performance to get re ground. Ordering arp head studs part number 208-4307 if anyone needs them too. Last but not least ordering supertech valve springs and retainers. That should get the ball rolling again. I've procrastinated long enough haha.
Don't mind how dirty the car is, I haven't washed it in months.
03-20-2013, 03:07 PM
#110
A little update for you guys. I ordered arp head stud kit, oem head gaskets, and sent back my whole clutch kit to clutchmasters. They are going to make a custom disc, replace the steel plate on the flywheel while it's out, and resurface the pressure plate. Hopefully they can fix the air gap problem when the clutch is disengaged so I can use the oem slave cylinder rod. That's pretty much it for now.
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03CLSprtNavi (09-01-2018)
03-20-2013, 10:45 PM
#111
Chapter Leader (Southeast Region)
Port and polish the lower runners and manifold while you have the engine out of the car, if you were not already planning on it. When i get mine I'm going to port and polish the heads as well
03-21-2013, 12:21 AM
#112
I'd say go on through with maybe polishing (not porting) the exhaust ports and matching them to the headers while you have free access. Im sure the exhaust ports (like every other J I've seen) are coated nicely with carbon buildup from the hefty EGR system these motors carry along side the casting of the port itself. Polishing, aside from the obvious increase in airflow, will also reduce carbon from collecting there again anytime soon. I've found a dremel and the small buff wheels that they sell in the two pack are excellent for port polishing on the exhaust. I've polished my exhaust ports almost to a reflective surface with roughly 1.5 hours of polish time...
And also polished the combustion chambers with them too...
And also polished the combustion chambers with them too...
03-29-2013, 02:51 PM
#113
Another little update just waiting for my new clutch setup in the mail, having custom intake manifold flanges made, the arp head studs were delivered, bought a new honda throwout bearing and rear main seal. As for the heads I'm only going to have a very mild port and polish job done on them because I don't want to be mad if something broke in the shortblock and messed up a head. I'm not using oem lower runners it's going to have a completely custom intake manifold.
04-01-2013, 11:08 AM
#115
04-01-2013, 11:11 AM
#116
Another little update my new clutch setup came in the mail over the weekend. I decided to go 8 puck segmented ceramic on both sides of the disc, new steel plate installed on the flywheel, and new pressure plate. Clutchmasters hooked me up!!!
05-04-2013, 10:40 PM
#118
A little update some more parts came in the mail. I also decided to get the whole car repainted while it's semi already apart and especially since the engine is out. I'm going to have a full respray with color change done including the engine bay and jams. Also bought new headlights again lol so I can have the bezels color matched. I can't decide on a color 100% yet but I'm leaning towards bmw sapphire black metallic. That's going to set back having the car finished soon but f it lol.
Dropped off the original engine at my friends shop rameybuilt to have the long tube headers started to get built. Once that's complete were going to start on the intake manifold.
Dropped off the original engine at my friends shop rameybuilt to have the long tube headers started to get built. Once that's complete were going to start on the intake manifold.
Last edited by 1foxbody; 05-04-2013 at 10:48 PM.
05-04-2013, 11:36 PM
#119
Speak of the devil. I literally just asked about this thread, haha.
Did I hear the term "longtube" headers? And did I see Supertech printed on that box? And coilovers too? Geez Fox, where the hell did all this come from...lmao!
Care to say what this guy is charging for the longtubes?
Did I hear the term "longtube" headers? And did I see Supertech printed on that box? And coilovers too? Geez Fox, where the hell did all this come from...lmao!
Care to say what this guy is charging for the longtubes?
05-04-2013, 11:58 PM
#120
Speak of the devil. I literally just asked about this thread, haha.
Did I hear the term "longtube" headers? And did I see Supertech printed on that box? And coilovers too? Geez Fox, where the hell did all this come from...lmao!
Care to say what this guy is charging for the longtubes?
Did I hear the term "longtube" headers? And did I see Supertech printed on that box? And coilovers too? Geez Fox, where the hell did all this come from...lmao!
Care to say what this guy is charging for the longtubes?
I've been laying low because I've just been busy. I need to decide on a damn color lol! I'm open for suggestions, it has to be close to black. I might even do jet black haha.