1foxbody

I decided I want to build a engine on the side while my cl is still running and driving, to have the least amount of down time. I can't decide what combination to build exactly. I also want to only use oem parts and keep the price to a minimum, since at the end of the day I'm still going to be spraying the hell out of the engine lol. I'm leaning towards buying a J35A3 engine since I can buy one cheap and putting my J32A2 heads on it.

The only problem I would run into from doing some research and talking to a few people is I would have to get different pistons to clear the 36mm intake valves. Does anyone know 110% I can't just keep the stock mdx pistons installed when using my J32A2 heads? I'm also going to do a few other things while I have the engine on the engine stand to make working on it easier while it's out of the car. Things like complete timing belt service, gude performance cams, supertech valve spring + retainers, porting / polishing, powder coating some parts.

Help me decide what to do people, to many choices lol!!

Here are the swap options along with brief advantage(s)/disadvantage(s):

BLOCK/HEADS (incl. manifold (upper/lower), tb)
------------------
J30A1/J30A1
advantage: no modification needed.
disadvantage: no torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J30A1/J32A2
advantage: mid-range and top-end power
disadvantage: J30A1 pistons have to be modified to fit large J32A2 (intake) valves.
Not much torque until turbo/sc kicks in.

J32A2/J32A2
advantage: no modification needed, mid-range, top-end power.
disadvantage: torque is still ok but better than J30A1

J35A4/J30A1 (Odyssey '02-04/ '00-02 Accord V6)
advantage: no modifications needed, adequate torque, adequate mid-range
disadvantage:needed better cams, large intake valves for overal better powerband, top-end power

Option 1:
If budget is limited the solution is to swap J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) cams into stock J30A1(Accord V6) cyl. heads (see sticky CL-S swap and Cam machining).

Option 2:
Get J32A2 (CL-S/TL-S) complete cyl. heads + IM (intake manifold)
But requires different pistons (see J35/J32 below) to clear J32A2 valves.

J35A3/J35A3 (Acura MDX '01-02), J35A4/J35A4 (Honda Odyssey '02-04)
advantage: no modifications needed, great torque, nice mid-range
disadvantage: little less air flow than J32A2 but very close.

This option looks like a good choice if getting the complete engine or even separate short block and cyl. heads/manifold due to a price. And MDX the cyl. heads are the same part # as CL-S, however intake valves and cams are different than CL-S but overall much better than pathetic AV6.

J35A1/J32A2 (Odyssey '01/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

Note: Same options apply as listed below.

J35A3/J32A2 ('01-02 MDX/CL-S '01-03) or J35A4/J32A2 (Odyssey '02-04/CL-S '01-03)
advantage: great entire powerband and especially torque.
disadvantage: Need CL-S or RL pistons.

There are also couple options:

Option 1
With '01-02 complete MDX block or '02-04 Odyssey complete block (crank/rods/pistons) it is required to purchase 2005 Acura RL pistons (new set $50 each) This is a best option still since these pistons have clearance for large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves thus no modification needed. Despite the fact they have higher 11.0:1 CR still even supercharger can be used here with low boost up to 7psi intercooled (assuming safe AFR). In addition, if 11:1 CR is too high for you, you can use '03 CL-S pistons with 10.5:1 CR.

Option 2
'01-03 J32A2 block (CL-S)
Required to purchase the following:

-= hondaautomotiveparts.com =-
'02-'04 Odyssey (crankshaft)
Product No. 368270 or
Honda part #13310-PGK-A00

'02-'04 Odyssey (connecting rod)
Product No. 368269 or
Honda part #13210-PGK-A00

Main bearings + rod bearings

-= acuraautomotiveparts.org =-
'03 CL-S (pistons) - 10.5:1 CR or
'05 RL (pistons) - 11.0:1 CR

pistons rings (per chosen model)

Note: Odyssey pistons do not have clearance to fit large 36mm J32A2 (intake) valves. Solution - custom job to increase valve pockets.

BTW, The only advantage to get J32A2 block is due to better cylinder sleeves to withstand heat designed for higher redline vehicle, otherwise depending on the price Odyssey or MDX block are the best bet.

Keep in mind, J35A5 '03-04 MDX will not fit on 6th gen. AV6/CL/TL/CL-S/TL-S due to different design, and looks like only for 7th gen. AV6.

Edit: The correct valve dimensions now stand as follows: incl. J30A4/J32A4

J30A1 '98-02 AV6: 34mm/29mm (intake/exhaust)
J30A4 '03+ AV6: 35mm/30mm

J32A1 '01-03' TL/CL: 34mm/30mm
J32A2 '01-03 TL-S/CL-S: 36mm/30mm
J32A4 '04+ TL: 35mm/30mm

J35A1 '99-01 Odyssey: 34mm/29mm
J35A4 '02-04 Odyssey: 35mm/30mm

njlakeshoreg

my head is spinning homie......lol

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

i think this thread seems to have the info you need:

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...=714305&page=5

specifically this post:

1foxbody

I didn't read the first four pages of that thread but is he specifically talking about the exact combination I'm talking about? He said he puttied it and the clearance was fine. So maybe I will be okay and it's all a myth lol. I'm curious to what the new compression ratio would be with this setup too..

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Now you're speaking my language Fox!

What they IS TRUE, you cannot use stock j35a3 pistons with 36mm valves unless theyre notched. RL (05+) and TL-S (07-08) pistons will def clear 36mm intake valves. Although many (including myself) have denounced that the RL/TL-S pistons are forged, Acuranews.com actually says that they are...that's official too. I myself DID see, in person, casting marks on the one I ordered for that reason alone. If you're wanting to stick with OEM parts only, I'd recommend using the 09+ TL 3.5 pistons. They're forged aluminum and are around $75 cost for a standard set. But you may want to reconsider if you must use oversized pistons (.020") because they're nearly $160 per piston! If you need them, I can give you factory cylinder tolerances that you can use to determine wether or not a bore or just a hone is required. I've heard a lot of rumors on how the larger stroke J series motors develop "square" bores due to the linear force caused by the rod stroke itself on the walls. Chances are it will require boring unless you can find a low mileage unit.

As for the heads, I've heard from two trustworthy people that the factory j35a3 heads have more airflow potential than the j32a2 heads but I've never seen any flow charts to verify this. If you're looking for the cheapest route, I'd just stick with the j32a2 heads because it would cost some extra cash on enlarging the j35a3's valves.

1foxbody

Thanks for the reply! Maybe I'll just keep the J35A3 heads on and do a little porting/polishing to them since they are very similar anyways. Do you know what the compression ratio would be if I just kept it that way? That seems like the cheapest route. So are you 110% sure my J32A2 heads won't work without fly cutting the J35A3 pistons??? I might just try it for shits and giggles. It's not that hard to check piston to valve clearance on a engine stand.

Another option is I can always use cl or rl pistons and just do a quick hone. I wouldn't get it bored because that's even more money added to the total lol. But that's another $500 roughly for pistons and ring set added to the price of buying the engine. I don't think I want to go this route.

I need to make up my damn mind lol!!!

1foxbody

After doing some more research I think the compression ratio of a bone stock J35A3 is 11:1:1. Also if I put my J32A2 heads on it the new compression ratio would be 11:5:1. Can anybody confirm that?

Is it possible to reuse the head gasket and head bolts?

I think I'm going to just try to do it out of curiosity.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

13010-PGK-A01 pistons DO clear 14711-PGE-A00 valves. Forget what you may have heard, as I'm a guy who has seen it work.

The front head part number of a J32A2 is 12100-P8E-306. A J35A3 is 12100-P8E-306 as well. The same goes for the rear heads of course since neither motor used VCM.

Yes, the J32A2 head will give you a .49 bump in compression. I took CC's as well and did the math.

You shouldnt re-use head gaskets or head bolts. They are torque to yield.

Stephen00TL

I've been debating what to do, I'm thinking about getting an mdx or pilot 3.5 motor and throwing all my mods on it once I get my tax refund.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Also, keep in mind that you'll still be 10.5:1 with a j32a2 head on a j35a3 shortblock due to 13010-PGK-A01's small dome. The j35a3 is 10:1 from the factory

fsttyms1

(i have the setup in my garage, recently disassembled getting ready to bore out to make room for the J37 parts)

which is the main reason to upgrade to the RL or TL-S pistons. To get higher compression.

1foxbody

Thank you gerzand you answered all my questions!!! Now it's time for me to get to work lol!!

On a side note my friend dropped off his 03 CLS 6 speed swap tonight for me to do some work before he has it swapped into his ek civic hatch. I only took two pics after putting it on the engine stand.

mikebikelife

iTrader: (3)

The jseries looks huge outside of the standard engine bay , and even larger in a civic ...

Interersted in watching all you do in this build . Will keep reading .

fsttyms1

I love how every J the rear head gets discolored inside while the front stays nice and new looking.

rush

iTrader: (1)

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

So Fox, I must ask...I understand the whole wanting to use OEM parts but why spend $500 on stock pistons? Going through a reputable company such as Wiseco you will get both the quality and the value. I myself chose Wiseco for my J32 build and had a chance to take some measurements and was amazed at the tolerance they held to the OEM pistons.

Also, are you planning on running this with factory ECM? If so, which one?

Sonnick

Sub'd!

When are you going back to the track!? Lol.

1foxbody

I was just showing that option for reference. I'm not going that route lol. I'm doing it cheap as possible because I still have a large chance of breaking something in the short block since I'm using a lot of nitrous still. I'm actually going to jet the shot higher since I'll have the direct port kit on. I'm still going to use my oem pcm. I'm going to talk to msd to see if they offer some type of ignition box and/or timing retard for distributorless ignition systems. I doubt it but it's worth a shot.

1foxbody

It doesn't look like until the 2013 season in spring lol. I'll definitely be at the spring track meet!! Hopefully they kick my ass out for going faster than 11.50's without a cage haha .

AnthraciteTypeS

So in actuality, you could just throw your a2 heads on an j35a3 bottom end netting you the same 10.5:1 stock compression.. If i'm correct, that's the route i'd go. Do the j35 bottom ends comply while reving to 7000k+ though?

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

1foxbody

Ding ding exactly what I'm doing. The only thing I'll have to buy is complete timing belt kit, head gaskets, and head bolts. I have some big plans for a custom upper intake manifold setup. Remember I'm also doing gude performance cams, supertech valve springs/retainers. I would like to at least make 300+whp. I know the oem pcm will be leaving some power on the table but it's worth the sacrifice for reliability.

I think the shortblock will be fine. Will see how long it lasts on the big shot though lol.

AnthraciteTypeS

What about the revving aspect or are you not going to rev it out to the stock 3.2's computer's limit? I can't believe you're doing all this without any tuning..Don't be surprised if the stock ecm has a shit fit and forces you to throw something on there.. I know mine did when I ported the heads and added a lot of air through pretty much every other intake-breathing mod you can do

fsttyms1

The 3.5 will be just fine reving to the type-s redline. Many have done it (on other forums) There shouldnt be a issue with porting and the stock ecu either. I have everything ported on mine and have zero issues. I even had a 80mm tb on with the stock ecu and had no issues. These motors NEED more air, the more you can get them the more they like it.

1foxbody

X2 Exactly what you said lol! Wait till you guys see what I have planned for the upper intake manifold and throttle body setup.

blue02S

I thought the J32a2 only had a 9.8 to 1 compression ratio.?

Stephen00TL

Not unless something is wrong with the motor

rush

iTrader: (1)

Lol

fsttyms1

that is one way of putting it

Sonnick

Ported 3.7 manifold? Or dual TB perhaps?

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

j32a1 has 9:8

1foxbody

Completely custom upper from scratch with ported lower runners. I won't spill all the beans so the anticipation kills you guys lol!

1foxbody

Scratch that. Not using the oem lower runners anymore since they can only be bored so much and a limiting factor when it comes to designing a new manifold. Everything will be custom. Also aftermarket fuel rails, new direct port setup design too.

rush

iTrader: (1)

It's me mrs CLEO I see this in your future

1foxbody

That's a pretty neat setup but mine is going to be way different. Nothing like ever seen before!!!

Maybe I'll post a few pictures of very similar V8 setups. They a pretty much the same design minus two cylinders.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Not to be rude or anything Rush, but I think mine actually look better...



Built them last weekend while waiting on my wife to finish cooking dinner.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

VG30's for VQ35, no?

1foxbody

Now that's what I call talent and getting shit done quick lmao!!

fsttyms1

Now that is

Sonnick

WTF is going on in here? Lmao.