Dr. Jekyll

The 09 TL SH AWD intake manifold uses a stepper motor that has position feedback for variable opening angles determined by the ECU.

The 03 Cl-S has a motor that actuates a cable that rotates a spring loaded shaft......power on, motor turns and valve opens, power off.....valve snaps shut and forces motor back to initial position by the force of the spring.

It is impossible for the motor on/off controller of our 2nd gen cars to actuate the stepper motor in the 09 IMRC unit.

I have a brand new intake assy sitting on my desk next to me and I wanted to verify this. I assumed that it would open when given 12V to the +/- leads of the motor. I also assumed that it would not close when the power was taken away.

Results: As I assumed, the valve opens when given 12v and then stays open. The motor is constantly trying to move the valve as long as it has power as well. This will likely fry the motor after extended use.

What this means.......All those who wired up their new 09 manifolds with their 2nd gen wiring have done nothing more than opened the valve the first time their IMRC was activated and it has been stuck open ever since.

I am just sharing my results to clear up any confusion out there. I have been searching for months slowly getting everything for my swap and have found many cases of people wiring up their +/- to the 09 manifold....This didnt make any sense to me and I have been confused about it until I just got the parts in my hands today.

Just to clarify..... 2nd gen cl-s or tl-s with 09 Manifold = IMRC WILL NOT WORK. Might as well remove it before you install it as I have done.

Just trying to clear up any confusion for someone else in the future...

Stephen00TL

That's interesting. I am just going to leave mine closed the first couple of weeks because I would really like some low end power. Although I figure I will end up leaving it open all the time fore the power up top.

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

Happen to know the results in using the 2009 RL's magnesium manifold and our ability to have the butterfly valve function as it should?

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

Oh that's a bummer.

CLsuperhero

You should take it to boomslang and see what can be done.

Stephen00TL

Why civicdrvr still gained power across the entire range even with compression issues and apparently a non working IMRC

iisylentii

CLsuperhero

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...728942&page=24

One of the posters mentioned his IRMC not working as well after install. One suggestion was an RPM activation switch and a tune. It looks like he was referring to a type-s manifold to Tl-P swap though.

Karanx7

iTrader: (2)

It shouldn't be too difficult to fix. Just need some custom switch I imagine.

Dr. Jekyll

You mean a custom 5 wire servo motor controller? Doesnt sound so easy to me.

I guess you could do it with some relays and timers. It takes about 1 second to open the butterfly.
You need a polarity ( + and - ) switching relay.....or 2 relays that work simultaneously
You need 2 timers

wire up the +/- of the 09 IMRC to the relays

When the stock IMRC controller turns on, it actuates the relay and sends 12 v to the 09 actuator. The actuator cannot handle constant 12v the whole time it is open...it needs to open and then cut the power. This is where the timer comes in. The timer cuts the power after 1 second and the butterfly stays open.

When the stock IMRC controller kills the power, the relay switches the polarity for 1 second and the butterfly is closed.

Not impossible, but need to source electrical parts which I have no expertise with.... No telling if the servo motor will be happy in the long run with this either though.....

Sonnick

If you just take the butterflies out, then problem solved, no? You may lose a bit of low end (under 4K), but the top end gains are worth it. I have this manifold gasket matched to my polished runners, and a bored 3.7 TB as well...I gained 15whp peak and 6wtq. The power everywhere was increased. It's a great mod. To further back it up, I gained almost 2mph in the 1/4. I trapped 102 prior to the install and just this past weekend was trapping 103.5-103.9.

Dr. Jekyll

No doubt the manifold itself is better than stock. But I think you could see the HP gains up top and even MORE torqu down low with the functional butterflies. If you are willing to sacrifice the potential for MORE bottom end torque by just removing the butterflies, thats fine.....I think it would be better to have them functional if possible and have increased drivability around town and such though. Is there any proven top end HP gain by removing the butterflies compared to the butterflies in tact and in the open position?

I bet the HP gains from removing the butterflies on the 09 manifold are negligible, however I bet the torque loss from 2000-4000 is quite substantial....(15+ wtq).... There is no sacrifice if you can get them to operate normally, only gains across the board.

WBA-01

iTrader: (2)

If you want the intake without the butterflies, then just get a top plate from the accord without butterflies at all. See part #2 part number 17116-R70-A00

johndo18

I figured the electronic iirc would be an upgrade to our manifolds. Looks like we will have to band together and dicover a fix asap

fsttyms1

Considering our ECU is tuned for a single open or closed intake butterfly valve and not a variable open, just wire it up to open up and close like our stock one. Also are you sure its a motor and not an actuator? If its an actuator constant voltage wont hurt them. They are designed to operate like that. Also the spring on our intakes doesnt push or force the motor back, its cable operated and the cable doesnt push, just pulls.

Also I dont have the 09 manifold to play with but im sure it could be possible to modify it to use our cable system by removing the 09 unit?

YeuEmMaiMai

what he said

johndo18

Easier said then done I'm sure. How would one go about wiring it up in a way that it would work with our ecu?

Dr. Jekyll

Really? I started this thread to show that it doesnt work, I explained how ours works and how the current one works and the reasons that the 2 are not compatible. There is no close function on ours, the spring DOES close the valves and return the motor to its original position. Yes, the motor pulls it one way, the resistance of the spring pulls it back when the motor shuts off and closes it. Its not an actuator, you cant wire it up to our controller, it wont work. I can tell you all the reasons why, but I'd just be re-writing my original post.

I also looked at adapting our cable/spring bits to the end of the butterfly valve, but it was not even close to being able to swap. The motor housing is what makes the vacuum seal, the shaft end is different, etc.... Sure with enough time, $$, and trial and error, anything is possible, but you cant just swap the 09 motor for the 01-03 spring/cable assy.

Dr. Jekyll

Read my previous post about an idea for making a controller

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

This is interesting. I felt the butterflies opening and closing (hand on the intake manifold lid, rev engine). There was a noticeable click from them as well.

What was the 12v source?

Sonnick

This came out wrong. I want to clarify. What I meant by this, is that the manifold itself is worth it even if you have to delete the butterflies. I was saying that if you were on the fence on getting this manifold and the deleted butterflies would turn you away, don't be turned away. The top end gains are worth it regardless. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Dr. Jekyll

I used a battery as a 12v source.

Pop your cover off and take a look at the valve position. Should be closed if it were functioning properly. Should only take 5 minutes to check. Let us know what you find.

Stephen00TL

He's not using that intake manifold anymore so I doubt he will be able to check

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

As Stephen said, Im no longer running the 09 mani. But, when it was uninstalled, Im 95% sure the butterflies were in the closed position.

Rozay52410

So the 09 tl sh awd intake manifold is a good mod for cl-s and tl-s 2nd gen or no?

Stephen00TL

Yes it's the best manifold you can use besides nva-av6's dual throttle body manifold set up

Rozay52410

Are the 07+ mdx the same intake manifold? Since there 3.7L v6?

Dr. Jekyll

Nope, different part number and look different in the pars catalog. I haven't seen one in person to say what the exact differences are...

Rozay52410

So I couldn't mod it to my tl type s 2nd gen?

Dr. Jekyll

I'm sure you could, but there is no proven benefit to doing so. The MDX's typically are designed to have more lower end torque. You might end up with a torquier engine, but your top end will suffer. Spend the coin on what's proven, unless you want to be everyone's lab rat and dyno your car stock, then install the mdx mani, and then re-dyno all within a few hours....

Rozay52410

lol thanks alot man

typeR

easily verified anyone that has this installed and assumed operational ...open the top plate ...butterfly should be in the open postion ...

if its not either the poster is wrong or your motor isnt working at all
...next test if butterfly is closed ...rev engine to above 3800 and hold ...while doing so disconnect harness to IMRC motor ...turn off engine remove plate if butterfly is still in the closed postion either poster is wrong or your intake mani motor is not opperating ... next text manually open butterfly if poster is correct it should want to stay in whtever postion you rotate it to ... replace cover ...rev engine to above 3800 ...pull cover if butterfly is still open your intake motor is not working if closed poster is wrong ...

blueacura1990

iTrader: (4)

Is there anyway to remove the flap inside the manifold, or to manually leave it open so that there is not constant power to the acutuator. And if so if the flap is always open are there any consequences like check engine lights or huge loss of power? Please send any imput thank you guys

Cocoa

iTrader: (2)

The flap open or closed resembles the characteristics of short and long runners under different ranges in the power band. (long for low end, short for top end). Keeping it open will in turn act as if the manifold is using short runners therefore you will lose low end but see gains in the top end.

So to answer the question, would there be a power loss. Well, under these circumstances (replacing your stock manifold for this one) you would only see a gain throughout the whole power band simply because this manifold overall as far as i recall, holds more air.

So the question for everyone isn't, will it make power. That's already been answered, and it will across the whole power band over a pnp'd cls manifold. The question on people's mind is: how much power are we not seeing in the low end without the use of this actuator as it was intended for.

Correct me if I'm mistaken fellas.

YeuEmMaiMai

the other obvious choice is to make an adapter so that the CLS ECU controls the butterfly open or closed. Should not be too terribly difficult to make an adapter

johndo18

Yes please someone listen to him and make one up. We need more options for bolt on power for this car before the CL is forgotten about

civicdrivr

iTrader: (9)

Before the CL is forgotten about?

InspireJ32A

I'm sure the low-end power inclination of the MDX is down to ECU tuning and not to the intake manifold (that said, the '07 MDX has pretty much the same torque as the J37A4 TL, maybe a bit more, and at the same revs, even though the peak torque RPM's were brought down slightly in the later models). I've just installed a J37A1 MDX manifold into my J32A2 equipped Honda Inspire - no top-end losses to report, I'm quite happy with the way my car has been driving (although I don't have any before/after power figures to verify whether it yielded any gains).