JarrettLauderdale

I am, but I wouldn't be able to offer you the type of input that would be beneficial to you at your level of chassis awareness. I have these bushings up front, a 24mm Progress rear bar, as well as Koni yellows and H&R Race springs at all fours corners. I feel like I don't have any issues applying power through a turn where one particular corner of the suspension is loaded more than the others. However, I'm at full weight.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

You can't really push car hard enough on street to know if balance is really right or not. I have been autocrossing Focus ST more and having that car helps me see what needs to be changed on CL. Every parking lot is different also.

I was just asking based on fitment alone. I wouldn't be able to tell difference.

Your setup sounds good.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Hmm. I saw those earlier actually. You are referring to the Super pro right? Wonder if picture is accurate because they have no hump. I asked them and they said no brackets are included. Weird how one says 27.2mm and other is 28mm.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Gotcha...yeah, that's what I was getting at...sure, some spirited driving, I mean, I could tell when I moved from street to track setting on the rear sway but only because I'd feel every bump on the entire rear of the car instead of a side and I could take an exit ramp at a higher speed and feel planted.

Focus ST was on my list of next cars...seems like a blast to drive.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Good catch. I thought they were ES, sorry, it was a quick search. I went to the ES site only because I remember getting the ES Accord radius rod bushings and was impressed at how much they made a difference. The Super pro look pretty good, though you can't tell how 'hard' they are until you get them in your hands.

I remember back in the day when I purchased the CT front sway and it came with similar looking red 'flat' bushings as the Super pro's and the OEM brackets, with the hump in the middle, were reutilized when installing. They lasted a good many years until one day I was under the car and could see that they were cracked and deteriorating. I just slapped on some OEM moogs from the local parts store because I needed the car and that was quicker. May get these super pros when the time is needed again.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

I thought my car was balanced before autocrossing, but was wrong. The FoST is probably best bang for your buck as far as newish cars for the price. The driving dynmics are perfect for autocross. Seems like it was built specifically for it. Problem with the CL is that it was never intended to do any of this.

Honda could learn a few things from Ford and vice versa.

Here was my last autocross in CL:


Here is autocross in ST with new Bridstone RE71-R tires at Miller Park in Milwaukee:

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Gotta admit, that first vid was a hoot to watch...that engine was screaming...
seems like the CL makes you work a bit harder too...

Nice, man.

JarrettLauderdale

The flat 27.2 bushings from Prothane and Energy Suspension are for the '94-'97 EX/V6 that used a 27.2mm front bar. The brackets on those are smooth without the ridge in them. The later Accords (and likewise TL and CL applications) use the bushing with the ridge in the middle. It helps to locate the bushing in the middle better.

I know this because my CB7 uses a CD5 27.2mm bar to slightly compensate for the 22mm Progress bar in the rear on that car. I have those bushings as well as couple of pair for my previous '02 Accord and now CL. They're the same diameter, only with a different outer edge.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

Exactly, that's why I mentioned that the Super pro reminded me of the CT bushings supplied with the front sway back in the day. Because with the lack of a middle 'hump' on the bush, the outer edge on the Super pro's now serves the purpose to help keep the OEM brackets centered when reutilized. The OEM Moog replacements I used 'in a hurry' had the middle hump and the brackets fit flush and snug to the conformity of the bushes as if they were OEM.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks. Cl is harder to drive and harder to put down consistent times. CL is more on edge, whereas ST is very predictable. CL is so fun to drive though. Yeah the engine screams, sounds so much better in person too. Get a lot of compliments on how it sounds. I haven't heard a better sounding v6.

Could have been faster in slalom section, but session before, a Subaru spun out there and crashed into fence. Think that affected me.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Rear Bulkhead Gussets Installed. 2 lbs removed.

This is for you Rockstar since you love my holes.
Might not be a huge weight savings, but they look damn sexy.



4th Gen TL Magnesium IM & Blox 74mm TB ready for install.

This IM looks boring compared to the shiny plenums and wanted to make it unique.

Gasket matched openings, cut extra posts off, grinded down ridges & tabs, smoothed sides, and Painted High Temp Ford Grey.

Using Prankparts.com adapter and running Acura Top Plate with butterflies for more low end torque. All hardware is titanium.

Should weigh atleast 10 lbs less than current setup.



Removed Front Bumper Beam & Switched to J's Racing Tow Strap

Even after Swiss Cheesing and removing the 7.5 lb boat anchor, front beam was still 17 lbs. Both bumper beams combined are over 50 lbs which has to be a record. Talk about ruining a cars handling.

Before I get flamed for safety, it is not a safety item. No point arguing the point because the shop is gonna make me custom bars from tubing that should be 5 lbs or less each.

Made an Aluminum Extension from the frame rail to get tow strap right where it needs to be. Look at that massive bolt.



Removed Rear Bumper Beam which still weighed 12 lbs.

I used rear bumper beam to support rear bumper from shaking when driving. Decided to put small and lighter rear diffuser on and make some brackets that connect to bumper behind license plate.

Added a J's Racing Tow Strap to rear frame rail also.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

That IM looks .. where'd you get the hardware?

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

well, I am from Switzerland after all!
Dude, even with as light as you were...you still found a way to remove another 50 pounds. That's pretty crazy and cool.
Even the rear deck bolts are titanium, huh?

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

This thread always make me wanna put the RL on a diet. No chance i'll ever get sub 3k lbs without severe gutting but down to 3500 lbs would be a game changer

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I thought about that too...
I thoroughly miss my TL's...knowing a platform that well inside and out is really comforting!

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks. Titanium bolts nuts and washers

Thnx. Naw those bolts arent titanium. They are grade 12 socket head bolts from mcmaster.Com with aluminum beauty washers from downstarinc.com.

When I get my car back it will be 1000 lbs lighter than stock and lighter than a large amount of miatas.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Shop owner, Scott, showed me something on a few of their racecars that I never thought of before. Converting from a mechanical to electric water pump. He said it freed up roughly 10 hp, but that it is a pricey upgrade at over $1000.

Debating whether to do anything about exhaust. My current resonator and muffler combined weigh roughly 30 lbs and offer 3" or less of ground clearance.

Could go with 2 burns mufflers that are 3 lbs each, would give more room for diffuser, give probably an inch more ground clearance, and maybe free up some power. Negatives are price and not knowing how it would sound.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Do you daily? Or is this basically mostly a track car?
At the level of weight reduction you're at...I think 24 #'s gone would outweigh loud and a little more possible rasp.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

$1000+ for 10hp



Gotta pay to play..

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

that's about right for an exhaust though, no?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Don't daily it, but drive on streets. Drive it to events which can be rather far(few hours).

Was reading some Burns/Coastfab reviews and there seem to be lots of complaints about drone. My current setup is drone free. I really don't like drone to be honest.

My thinking now might be to keep big 3 foot long resonator since it is directly in middle of car and really low down so has good center of gravity. Gonna ask shop if there is any way to get little more ground clearance out of it.

My magnaflow rear muffler is 12 lbs and could change that out to a smaller & lighter one. Just whether I want exhaust to exit at rear bumper or not. If I ever do time attack, rear bumper exit is required. Could also make muffler removable. Hmm.


Keep in mind these are wheel to wheel race cars running in series with specific rules and restrictions and sponsored by shop. 10 hp is huge in competition. Didn't say I was gonna do it. Electric pump conversion removes weight also.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

Good thinking...yeah, drone would drive you NUTS.
Especially with so much insulation removed!

AnthraciteTypeS

Looking fantastic as always. I would wait to see the dyno results from the new intake setup. Maybe you'll find your 10hp there and be content.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thanks. I am not really looking for 10 hp, just thought it was an interesting mod I hadn't really thought about. More low end torque and a flatter torque curve would be nice though.

My current j32a2 IM has IMRC connection welded up so can't really run IMRC on it. That, weight, and just being curious which setup is better are reasons to switch IM's. Will eventually run stand alone and tune hopefully next year.

Before anyone says throw in j35a3, that would be illegal in classes and series I plan to run in. Building current engine will be an option when needed.

A/C removal and lighter flywheel should help some also.

Base Dyno

Here is base dyno. Same setup as when dynoed 2 years ago, but peak numbers are 2whp and 1 wtq higher. Engine hasn't lost any power. Car has just over 130k miles and haven't changed spark plugs or adjusted valves since 75k. That might help too. Dyno of 4th Gen IM will be posted soon.

Red is from 2013 Blue is 2016

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Looks like IMRC working isn't an option. Mods should really un-sticky that misleading thread.

Shop doesn't really think IACV will work that well mounted separately, so they want to run K series TB instead.

I am thinking Noone makes K series adapter and need to make one. Anyone know of one?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Plan now is to delete butterflies and run 74mm skunk2 k-series tb. Will need to make custom adapter so dyno will take little longer.

In future might port my spare j32a2 IM and see how that dyno's with functioning IMRC. Might be worth it for autocross.

Really hope this IM makes more power, because for weight reduction alone it just isn't worth it.

For daily driving j32a2 IM would be better.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

I'd have to find the thread with the info but I believe P2R installed the 3.7 manifold on their race car and it made more power than the ported J32 manifold with plenums that was previously on the car.



Don't think you'll be disappointed

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

It is hard to say. Has been some misleading information. When I was emailing p2r, I remember being told j32a2 IM with extra material added to neck and ported to 76mm with 76mm tb with an extreme port job makes more power than 4th Gen IM.

Was told that my ported IM I got from p2r is a more milder port job.

I want to dyno 4th Gen IM with my bored Oem tb, then with skunk2 tb to see difference. Then in future would be nice to see dyno numbers of ported j32a2 IM with plenum and 74mm tb. 74mm is max you can port j32a2 IM neck without adding more material.

I'm thinking j32a2 with plenums and 74mm k series tb with butterflies intact and working IMRC is probably best option. It also looks best, only negative is little extra weight.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

4th Gen 3.7 IM & 74mm K-series TB Dyno

Still can't believe that after this much time I have still not seen anyone post a proper dyno of these IMs.

After finding out the butterflies would not work, I expected this mod would not be worth the money. Numbers are pretty much what I expected. I would say this mod is only really good for J swapped cars with clearance issues or track car.



Curious what you guys think of the graph. Wondering if using MDX IM Spacer milled down would be beneficial if it clears strut bar?

Wondering how much of top end power gain is from TB or IM. It might just be the TB.

For us CL owners, best option IMO is to use OEM IM ported to accept 74mm TB, unless you want to add material to neck and port to 76mm. Then run K or B series TB. Use P2R Plenums or plenum spacers with MDX horns. Keep IMRC and butterfly intact and working. Will probably do this sometime in future and dyno again. Going to shop tomorrow to drop off parts and will discuss it then.

Think next step is ecu and tuning to help power under the curve.

10 hp and less weight from electric water pump for price doesn't sound so bad after this.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

There's a whole thread on V6-P on IMs & TBs which i'm pretty sure has dynos for these IMs.


The butterflies not working definitely hurts you. Didn't civicdrver/E30cabrio (sp?) have the butterflies working way back when they first did this swap?

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Are those dyno of J32a2 though? This IM is worth it for newer cars that can run with working butterflies. Is there anyway to get butterflies to work? What about with stand alone ecu? Maybe could modify cable IMRC to fit new IM? RPM activated switch?

As far as e30 and civics thread, they never had IMRC working properly. That is why I said mods should un-sticky the thread.

Here is a thread that discusses it.

https://acurazine.com/forums/second-...oooooo-872235/

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thinking l should focus on stand alone ecu and tuning to get extra power and forget about stupid butterflies.

If P2R Accord dyno can be believed, there should be good low end torque with butterflies deleted with proper tune. According to P2R there isn't much to gain on top end(10 or less), but they claim gains of 40 under curve.


Modifying headers more would be more beneficial than messing with intake setups anyway.

Will discuss it with shop today and see what they think.

teh CL

iTrader: (1)

I guess they were all on 2nd gen J series motors which makes sense..


A tune & long tubes would definitely benefit the build..

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Well I gave the shop my custom engine harness and all parts to convert motor to auto. Gave them the go ahead to buy ecu and get started.

Shop owner wants to talk me out of removing a/c, so will think about that and see if I can find posts with exact weight figures.

Besides that just going to do new clutch kit, coil over overhaul, and oem front sway.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Just remembered I have underdrive pulley and about to install aasco flywheel. Can you run lighter stock size pulley or is oem pulley recommended?

Shop says they'd prefer oem for balance.

rockstar143

iTrader: (6)

I thought they were internally balanced!
I thought only downside to the smaller was lack of amperage off alternator.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Hard to say without long term testing. There is a chance of wearing bearings prematurely and some other issues.

Shop wants to run oem pulley, so I shipped it to them yesterday.

Wish ATI made harmonic damper pulley for j series.

J-Series Honda Race Harmonic Damper [HON-IBJV6-7-SP] : BHJ Dynamics, Harmonic Dampers and Specialty Crankshaft Vibration Dampers

Here is a J Series Pulley, but it has no accommodations for drive belts and is pricey.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Thinking of installing this shifter in car this winter. Leaning more towards HR over K-Tuned.

Hybrid Racing RSX Short Shifter Assembly Hybrid Racing

Here is a video of what needs to be done.

zeta

iTrader: (1)

That HR shifter is a nice find.
I'm confused though when he mentions moving the 'pin' on the shift lever. The CL-S6 shift lever 'pin' is already in the place he says it needs to be , #3 on the link below.
SHIFT LEVER for 2003 Acura CL COUPE



The shift 'pin' on the 'J series tranny' shown in the video looks to be from an 04-06 TL 6 speed or maybe an Accord?, because the 'pin' on the shift lever is on the opposite side. So, I wonder which one will work for your CL-S 6speed?

MT SHIFT ARM for 2005 Acura TL SEDAN

Edit: Just rewatched the video, I get it now, the shift pattern will be reversed and function properly when the 'pin' is moved as described; therefore, It should work correctly with the CLs6 shift lever.

brian6speed

iTrader: (5)

Car in video is a k engine mated to j series tranny I believe. Pretty sick setup.