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03 cl type s M/T crankshaft postion sensor B (noise) code

 
Old 03-19-2018, 03:33 PM
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03 cl type s M/T crankshaft postion sensor B (noise) code

bought this CL a couple weeks ago and is coming up with a po386 crankshaft postion sensor B (noise) code my mechanic has already scoped the sensor and the wave forms look perfect. Great power perfect ground and good signal, at the sesnor and also back to the ecu. when you un plug the sensor and take the car for a ride it will not alow you to rev pass 2 thousand rpms with out it starting to buck but When you plug the sensor back in the car drives normal with no hesitations so i went a head and replaced the sesnor anyways just to make sure that wasnt the problem and still no change after that the light is still on. Next we to check and scope the other cranshaft postition sensor behind the timeing cover and same results, the wave forms were perfect grounds were good same for the power and signal as well now my mechanic and I are at a stand still and dont really know what else to do. the engine was replace with a J32A from japan an i am aware that the motor is different then the origanial j32a2 from factory it probably shouldn't make much of a difference giving that sensor is on the transmisson and the transmisson is the original 6 speed type s transmisson. its not making much sense to me and that partical code does come up when scaning it even though the sensor scopes fine and is in deed working. the car does runs great and has no issues other then the light , these cars are rare with the 6 speed and not a lot of write ups on them so any input would be appreciated.
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Old 03-19-2018, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
bought this CL a couple weeks ago and is coming up with a po386 crankshaft postion sensor B (noise) code my mechanic has already scoped the sensor and the wave forms look perfect. Great power perfect ground and good signal, at the sesnor and also back to the ecu. when you un plug the sensor and take the car for a ride it will not alow you to rev pass 2 thousand rpms with out it starting to buck but When you plug the sensor back in the car drives normal with no hesitations so i went a head and replaced the sesnor anyways just to make sure that wasnt the problem and still no change after that the light is still on. Next we to check and scope the other cranshaft postition sensor behind the timeing cover and same results, the wave forms were perfect grounds were good same for the power and signal as well now my mechanic and I are at a stand still and dont really know what else to do. the engine was replace with a J32A from japan an i am aware that the motor is different then the origanial j32a2 from factory it probably shouldn't make much of a difference giving that sensor is on the transmisson and the transmisson is the original 6 speed type s transmisson. its not making much sense to me and that partical code does come up when scaning it even though the sensor scopes fine and is in deed working. the car does runs great and has no issues other then the light , these cars are rare with the 6 speed and not a lot of write ups on them so any input would be appreciated.
It does make a difference. Was the J32A2 engine used from Japan from a 6-speed car?

The reason I ask is because if it was a J32A2 from an automatic car, then the crankshaft sensor, on the 'pulley' side of the engine, is different than the 6-speed CLS. Along with the front camshaft pulley and TDC sensors on the front head.

CLS6 part #:
37500-PGE-A11

CLS Automatic part #:
37501-P8F-A01

Last edited by zeta; 03-19-2018 at 04:35 PM.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:10 PM
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The J32A motor from japan to my knowledge are strictly produced as an automatic in japan. I did take out the timeing cover to check and see if the crank sensor was replaced with a M/T crank sensor and it was which is a 3 pin connector. ive already tryed and replaced the 37500-PGE-A11 and the sensor b code is still throwing a light. Both the crank sensor are working fine, I havent had the chance to test the camshaft sensors yet an more then likely will go test them next this weekend.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
The J32A motor from japan to my knowledge are strictly produced as an automatic in japan. I did take out the timeing cover to check and see if the crank sensor was replaced with a M/T crank sensor and it was which is a 3 pin connector. ive already tryed and replaced the 37500-PGE-A11 and the sensor b code is still throwing a light. Both the crank sensor are working fine, I havent had the chance to test the camshaft sensors yet an more then likely will go test them next this weekend.
Ok, This is what I know.

If you still have access to the old 6-speed J32A2 then all these parts can be reused.

Hypothetically, if you were using a USDM automatic J32A2, CL-S/TL-S from a local salvage yard, you would have to make that automatic J32A2 6-speed compatible for it to be plug n play with the CLS6 ECM.

You do that by taking the CLS6 timing belt drive gear and its reluctor wheel, pulley side crankshaft sensor/harness and the timing belt stopper plate, front camshaft pulley and TDC sensors on the front head. All from the CLS6.

Since I am not sure what, if any of those parts are included on the JDM J32A2, then that would be a good place to start considering to look to work out your issue.

Last edited by zeta; 03-19-2018 at 06:28 PM.
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Old 03-19-2018, 08:22 PM
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I am not sure what drive gear or reluctor wheel is on my motor just yet but i did notice when checking the crank sensor behind the timeing cover the reluctor wheel was making this grove into the m/t crank sensor. Almost like a surface scratch on the sensor so they can possibly be creating the noise? i will look into that and the tdc sensor as well
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Old 03-19-2018, 08:40 PM
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Only thing throwing me off is that the sensor scoped fine and had no interference of any kind in the signal on its wave form. it seemed that both sensors are working fine according to my scope
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Old 03-19-2018, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
I am not sure what drive gear or reluctor wheel is on my motor just yet but i did notice when checking the crank sensor behind the timeing cover the reluctor wheel was making this grove into the m/t crank sensor. Almost like a surface scratch on the sensor so they can possibly be creating the noise? i will look into that and the tdc sensor as well

The top picture belongs to an automatic USDM '02 MDX J35A3, you can see how the reluctor 'teeth', behind the timing belt drive pulley, are spaced farther apart. That is because it is from a non 6-speed engine.

The second picture belongs to a destroyed USDM J32A2 specifically from a CLS6, you can see how the reluctor 'teeth' are more 'tight' in their concentration. If I'm not mistaken, it is the reluctor teeth that interact with the 'specific' model crank sensor to communicate properly with the ECM.

You state that your car is running OK, except that the MIL is on with code p0386 and you can't get rid of it. Even after testing both crank sensors. It's hard to believe that the people who did the engine swap would not of taken the parts I mentioned above; otherwise, one would think the car would not run at all, so I'm really not sure what you have going on.

Originally Posted by 2ndgentl View Post

Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
Only thing throwing me off is that the sensor scoped fine and had no interference of any kind in the signal on its wave form. it seemed that both sensors are working fine according to my scope
That is what is confusing. It may be that the 'scope' shows the sensors are fine; however, if the wrong relator wheel is present then that might be what is causing the code Then again, like I stated above, would the car even run in the first place, I'm not sure. That's beyond my scope.

The only thing I can recommend is to:
Check and see you have all the correct CLS6 parts on the JDM engine to make it 6-speed compatible,
Double check to see if you have the correct crank sensors.

P.S. you will need the front camshaft backing plate as well from the front CLS6 head. I forgot to include that above.

Last edited by zeta; 03-19-2018 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 03-20-2018, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
I am not sure what drive gear or reluctor wheel is on my motor just yet but i did notice when checking the crank sensor behind the timeing cover the reluctor wheel was making this grove into the m/t crank sensor. Almost like a surface scratch on the sensor so they can possibly be creating the noise? i will look into that and the tdc sensor as well
That is something to check into further. I don't think that reluctor wheel should be hitting anything, though I'm not sure. It could be causing some kind of interference 'noise' as you say.

Also make sure that the timing belt guide plate, #13 on the link below is placed correctly when you reintall the crank pulley.

https://www.oemacuraparts.com/auto-p...rankshaft-scat

I'm providing an attachment from the Helm's repair manual that shows the CKP Sensor Replacement for both the M/T and the A/T models. I'm not saying this is the problem; however, like in the pictures above you can clearly see, even in the repair manual, the distinction between 1) the M/T vs. A/T crank sensors and 2) the spacing of the reluctor teeth on each models timing belt drive pulleys.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
CKPreplacement.pdf (446.1 KB, 40 views)
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Old 03-24-2018, 10:57 AM
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Just tested camshaft sensors they are coming up fine with the scope once again. good signal perfect ground but its coming up with 4 pulses..on the wave form i can not find a wave form for this model to match it up to, not sure if the 4 pulses are odd or not for a 6 cyclinder?
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Old 03-27-2018, 07:08 PM
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im having this same problem.
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Old 03-28-2018, 08:25 AM
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Sensor b code? And im going to try a new ecu this weekend and see if its the ecu thats causeing the code because ive check just about everything with this.
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Old 03-28-2018, 09:51 PM
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thats pretty much what i think is wrong with mine. i get good values at the ecu connector. swapped sensors and no change. although on mine, it doesnt change how it runs/revs, it just always has a steady CEL.
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Old 08-01-2018, 07:50 PM
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this doesnt make sense..

if they swapped a auto j32a2 into his 6spd cls6.. wouldnt it not run right ? or not run at all ?..
it sounds like the shop swapped the manual crank and cam triggers cam gear etc in.. bc he says it runs fine.. but just a constant cel.. and when he unplugs it.. it goes into limp mode and bucks.. like it should..

did u ever figure this oout ?

which manual ecu do u have? a11 or a12 ?.. bc their was 2 manual ecu's for the 03 cls6.. i own both bc im a hoarder lol

on another note.. i know the 99 em1 civic si p2t ecu had a flaw.. the 2ndary 02 sensor circuit would go bad and throw a constant cel for 2ndary 02.. even if u changed it.. hondas fix was releasing the 00 em1 si p2t ecu..

im wondering if its the same concept.. why acura released 2 versions of the same ecu for the 03 cls6...
which ecu do u have jason ?
which ecu do u have 03-6/6 ?
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:25 PM
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Honestly not sure which ecu, figured it is the one that came from factory with my cls 6 speed j32a2.(the car is originally a factory j32a2 with a 6 speed then the j32a2 was swapped out for a more powerful J32A motor. this is a japan motor that was only produced with a automatic transmission in japan then all the manuel parts from the A2 were swapped over so it can run with the 6 speed ecu)..however I did try swapping out a ecu from a buddys cls 6 speed and still no difference. The sensor is clearly doing what it is suppose to but throws this code stopping me from being able to get my cls inspected so at this point the car just sits while i wait to figure out a solution to get it on the road.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
however I did try swapping out a ecu from a buddys cls 6 speed and still no difference.
That is what poormansr is asking you.

When you swapped out the ecu from your buddies cls 6 speed, did you notice if it was either a 3780-PGE-A11 or a 3780-PGE-A12??

For instance, if your original CLS6 ECU was an A11 and you tried another A11 from your buddies car then you would get the same result.

However, if you tried a CLS6 A12 ECU you may get a different result, because the part numbers are different due to some factory changes.


I was able to find a 3780-PGE-A11 on ebay:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/02-03-ACURA...sid=m570.l1313

I was able to find a 3780-PGE-A12 on ebay;

https://www.ebay.com/itm/02-03-ACURA...4383.l4275.c10
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:22 PM
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Honestly not sure what ecu at the moment but I will check and ask my friend what ecu he has and if they are different.
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Old 08-08-2018, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jason medeiros View Post
Honestly not sure what ecu at the moment but I will check and ask my friend what ecu he has and if they are different.
It's worth a try, right?

Poormansr is the one who brought forth the information regarding other options relating to the discontinued tranny side CLS6 crank sensor. He knows his stuff, IMHO.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-problems-fixes-70/part-no-longer-available-960248/

To say the least, IF I had tried everything and nothing seemed to work and this little information variation in ECU part numbers presented itself, then if possible, I would seriously consider investigating it so that I could salvage an uninspectable 2k+ pound brick sitting in my drive way/front yard.

You'll need the part # from your original ECU and his ECU. If yours is an A11 and his an A12 then that leaves you right were you are now and proves poormansr's theory wrong..

Good Luck!

Last edited by zeta; 08-08-2018 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 08-08-2018, 08:19 PM
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appreciate you guys both and yes for sure worth a try at this point i will take a look into it asap and will let you guys know what i find
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Old 07-09-2019, 07:54 PM
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Ckp sensor

Which ckp sensor is which
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Mariner View Post
Which ckp sensor is which
Crankshaft Position Sensor A, is located behind the Crankshaft pulley on the 6-speed. When there are problems with it, the ECU throws code P0336.

Crankshaft Position Sensor B, is located on the Transmission Bell Housing on the 6-speed. When there are problems with it, the ECU throws Codes P0385,P0386.

If that's not what you are looking for, then you will have to be more specific with your question.
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Old 07-09-2019, 08:45 PM
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Ok ya because i really messed up i did a jswap in an 02 accord coupe but i used the 05 tl 6lsd tranny and when installing the wiring harness I realized there is an extra plug figured out what its for so I put them together hoping it would read out fine but I am getting p0335 sensor a code not b and the one at the crank pulley i did and just so everyone knows i replaced everything the pulleys the sensors the subharnesses im just really confused as to why im getting sensor a code not b the ecu pinout shows blue wire is sensor 2 and blu/red wire is sensor 1 blu wire goes to timing side blue/red goes to tranny side
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Mariner View Post
Ok ya because i really messed up i did a jswap in an 02 accord coupe but i used the 05 tl 6lsd tranny and when installing the wiring harness I realized there is an extra plug figured out what its for so I put them together hoping it would read out fine but I am getting p0335 sensor a code not b and the one at the crank pulley i did and just so everyone knows i replaced everything the pulleys the sensors the subharnesses im just really confused as to why im getting sensor a code not b the ecu pinout shows blue wire is sensor 2 and blu/red wire is sensor 1 blu wire goes to timing side blue/red goes to tranny side
Ok, this is what I know. The 03 CL-S 6-speed transmission is the only one that has the CKP-B.

For instance, and to keep it simple, if one were to swap a manual 03 CL tranny into an 'automatic' 03 CL-S, you would have to take the ECU and engine wire harness, from the 6-speed, to make it compatible with the new CKP-B of the manual trans. Since you used the 05 TL-6 that would explain why your Accord ECU would not throw a CKP-B code, it does not exist.

Is the 02 Accord coupe ECU you are using from an 'automatic' transmission vehicle? The reason I ask is because when I 'pull up' the '02 Accord criteria, either in an EX or LX V6, on a Honda parts website, it only reflects that there was a 4 speed 'automatic' transmission made for that model year.
Maybe you need a manual trans ECU to get the proper read at CKP-A?

Last edited by zeta; 07-09-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:54 PM
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No i have the cls 6 motor it was an auto i converted it to manual got the ecu for a cls6 i just used an 05 tl 6mt thinking they were the same i have the cls a11 ecu i do have the tl non s ecu but its a completely different has 3 plugs from the engine where the cls only has 2

But i am getting the code for the sensor at the timing side not the tranny side thats why Im like "WHAT"
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:57 PM
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If i unplug the sensor on the timing side still no change only 1 code just in case
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:06 PM
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Could i have installed it wrong?
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:16 PM
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Just tossing things out there to consider:

When you converted the Automatic J32A2 to a manual compatible J32A2, did you use the timing belt drive pulley, at CKP-A, from the CL-S6? The timing reluctor wheels are different and they have different part #'s.
CL-S6: 13621-PGE-A11
CL-S auto:13621-P8A-A01


Also, if you converted the Auto J32A2 to a manual J32A2 and you are running the CL-S6 ECU with a non CKP-B TL-6 tranny, one would think that the CL-S6 ECU would be hunting for a signal from the CKP-B, can't find it, then throws a CKP-A?
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:21 PM
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Ya replaced all, timing pulley cam pulley cam plate tdc sensors wiring harness sub harnesses everything just dont have the 2nd sensor on the tranny and its throwing the timing side code they both have separate wires going to ecu both have 5v on the sensor wire both have 12v and ground at the connector and ya like you said it should throw the codes separately
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:25 PM
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And its actually a j32a from japan
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:31 PM
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Just curious, If you used the CL-S6 wiring harness, then you should have a CKP-B electrical connector hanging somewhere near the tranny side?

Furthermore, since we know that the absence of the CKP-B sensor, on the tranny side, is a big missing piece in keeping the CL-S6 ECU 'happy', regardless of the lack of CKP-B codes thrown, you may have to address that if you are ever going to see any 'joy' going forward.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:34 PM
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Ya i posted that earlier found the plug with nowhere to go so i put it in series with the other sensor hoping it would fool the ecu into thinking there was 2 sensors
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:53 PM
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^
The only suggestions I have are:
1) You can try to get an 05 TL-6 ECU, try and mate it up with the CL-S6 ECU wiring connectors?
2) Find and purchase or trade for a CL-S6 tranny with CKP-B sensor.
3) Purchase a CL-S6 clutch case and CKP-B sensor and exchange it with your TL-6 clutch case on the transmission.
4) There may be some 'standalone' ECU option that you can get to make everything you currently have 'happy' somehow?

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Old 07-10-2019, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by zeta View Post
^
The only suggestions I have are:
1) You can try to get an 05 TL-6 ECU, try and mate it up with the CL-S6 ECU wiring connectors?
2) Find and purchase or trade for a CL-S6 tranny with CKP-B sensor.
3) Purchase a CL-S6 clutch case and CKP-B sensor and exchange it with your TL-6 clutch case on the transmission.
4) There may be some 'standalone' ECU option that you can get to make everything you currently have 'happy' somehow?


Scratch 1) above. I don't know, other than being tired, why I put that down. Pretty sure that it won't work. A 3G ECU in a 2G ECU application.
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:15 AM
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This is definitely an interesting situation.

With your code, it could just be a faulty sensor.

As for no code for the sensor B, that's what's really weird. Is the car driveable at all?
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Old 07-10-2019, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by teh CL View Post
This is definitely an interesting situation.

With your code, it could just be a faulty sensor.

As for no code for the sensor B, that's what's really weird. Is the car driveable at all?
It reminds me of Adam Kovach's thread below.

He did a J35A3 swap into his CL-S6, P2R clutch disk, LUK pressure plate & AASCO lightweight flywheel. Upon start-up the ECU threw P0336=CKP-A sensor. He replaced it, no joy.

Then he replace the tranny side CKP-B, and found joy.

The funny thing was that the CL-S6 ECU never threw the CKP-B codes P0385; P0386.

Originally Posted by zeta View Post
So, in short, if a P0336 appears, not only does one have to address the CRK sensor gear behind the crank pulley, because that's where the ECU is pointing you, you have to also consider whether the tranny side sensor and/or the flywheel could be the culprit, even without the presence of P0385 or P0386 code, or the ECU itself.

So bizarre.
https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-p...-p0336-957910/

In this case with Charlie Mariner, he doesn't even have a CKP-B sensor to change. Which leads me to believe if he had one, he would find joy.

Last edited by zeta; 07-10-2019 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 07-10-2019, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by zeta View Post
It reminds me of Adam Kovach's thread below.

He did a J35A3 swap into his CL-S6, P2R clutch disk, LUK pressure plate & AASCO lightweight flywheel. Upon start-up the ECU threw P0336=CKP-A sensor. He replaced it, no joy.

Then he replace the tranny side CKP-B, and found joy.

The funny thing was that the CL-S6 ECU never threw the CKP-B codes P0385; P0386.



https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-p...-p0336-957910/

In this case with Charlie Mariner, he doesn't even have a CKP-B sensor to change. Which leads me to believe if he had one, he would find joy.
I used the cls 6mt brand new flywheel and clutch and it was an oem brand new ckp sensor i ordered the tranny ckp sensor will have it friday
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Old 07-10-2019, 12:03 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Charlie Mariner View Post
I used the cls 6mt brand new flywheel and clutch and it was an oem brand new ckp sensor i ordered the tranny ckp sensor will have it friday

So is your plan going forward to try and 'drill out' the boss that is on the 05 TL-6 tranny clutch case to fit the CL-S6 CKP-B sensor??
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Old 07-11-2019, 07:20 AM
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Yes have a pic on its mounting location
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Mariner View Post
Yes have a pic on its mounting location

Charlie, you are one lucky man to run into zeta on acurazine.

Check out the thread below, look through it thoroughly, there are many pictures of the CKP-B sensor boss location on the CL-S6 trans.

https://acurazine.com/forums/2g-cl-p...ilable-960248/



P.S. If possible, take pictures of your own and post them up here to show how you performed this modification. You are the only one, outside of one other individual, who has modified a TL-6 tranny to accommodate the CL-S6 CKP-B sensor on this forum.
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:11 AM
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As long as everything goes smooth if not I found a busted cls6 on ebay for 800 dont want to spend that but if nothing else i can just swap bell housing so i have an out might as well go for it right
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlie Mariner View Post
As long as everything goes smooth if not I found a busted cls6 on ebay for 800 dont want to spend that but if nothing else i can just swap bell housing so i have an out might as well go for it right
Just an FYI. Should you need it, an option is a new CL-S6 clutch case (#1), it's only $422.49 before shipping on the link below.

https://www.acuraoemparts.com/auto-p...h-housing-scat

Position of CKP-B on the link below:
https://www.acuraoemparts.com/auto-p...h-release-scat

Last edited by zeta; 07-11-2019 at 08:18 AM.
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