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Old 04-25-2017, 11:19 AM
  #321  
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
Was there a language barrier as well?
maybe... it was an int'l flight
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:30 AM
  #322  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
I could never do that job. I don't know how I'd handle a crazy woman like that either.

My assumption is somehow she made it past the door with the stroller, and she thought they were taking her stroller away from her rather than just stowing it with the rest of the strollers. If a person doesn't understand reason, how do you deal with them?
That's not what happened. One flight attendant told her she can bring the stroller onto the plane if she could find an overhead space. A second flight attendant had a different idea and wrestled the stroller away from her. But that's pretty irrelevant to this discussion. There was no excuse for the second flight attendant to be physical with the mother.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:33 AM
  #323  
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Come Fly the Unfriendly Skies.
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Old 04-25-2017, 11:38 AM
  #324  
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
Was there a language barrier as well?
Sure sounds like it.
Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
If a person doesn't understand reason, how do you deal with them?
How do you deal with a deaf person? A mute? A person who doesn't speak english? A mentally handicapped person?


No, "go back to your country," or, "beat it into them," aren't acceptable answers.

Last edited by oo7spy; 04-25-2017 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:30 PM
  #325  
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Originally Posted by F-C View Post
That's not what happened. One flight attendant told her she can bring the stroller onto the plane if she could find an overhead space. A second flight attendant had a different idea and wrestled the stroller away from her. But that's pretty irrelevant to this discussion. There was no excuse for the second flight attendant to be physical with the mother.
Hrmf... I've never seen a stroller make it past the door on any flight.

If a person doesn't understand reason, or is looney, or is just unwilling to comply, eventually it's going to become physical. There's just no way around it.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:35 PM
  #326  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
Hrmf... I've never seen a stroller make it past the door on any flight.

If a person doesn't understand reason, or is looney, or is just unwilling to comply, eventually it's going to become physical. There's just no way around it.

My theory is the Gate Agent told her she can take the stroller down the jet ramp and then fold it up there. She misunderstood and tried to bring it on board and that's when the FA got angry.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:41 PM
  #327  
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Common sense > her
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:43 PM
  #328  
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United Airlines incident: David Dao swung fists violently, officers' reports say - CNN.com


Not sure how much truth is in those officers' report. But there are always 2 sides to a story.
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:52 PM
  #329  
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So...Dao was using the ...?
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Old 04-25-2017, 01:53 PM
  #330  
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Probably did some Bruce Ree high-pitched sound/voice....
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Old 04-25-2017, 02:06 PM
  #331  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
Hrmf... I've never seen a stroller make it past the door on any flight.

If a person doesn't understand reason, or is looney, or is just unwilling to comply, eventually it's going to become physical. There's just no way around it.

Again, you are losing the plot. This incident isn't about whether she was complying or not, or about the stroller.
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Old 04-26-2017, 10:53 AM
  #332  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
United Airlines incident: David Dao swung fists violently, officers' reports say - CNN.com


Not sure how much truth is in those officers' report. But there are always 2 sides to a story.
That's not what this video shows. At around 1:20 mark, the security officer can be seen leaning over and reaching in to grab/drag Dr. Dao and then you can immediately hear Dr. Dao screaming.

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Old 04-26-2017, 11:16 AM
  #333  
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I feel zero bad for him. None.
Originally Posted by Dr. Dao
I am not getting off. You will have to drag me off and take me to jail.
Originally Posted by Police Officer
Okay...

When the police tell you to do something, there is no point in fighting it. It will not help.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:29 AM
  #334  
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We all know what happens when you resist with a cop. Right, wrong, justified or not, it almost does not matter.

It is not news that cops use force... it actually could have been a lot worse based on the recent shit we have seen.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:41 AM
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he was on the inside seat... I feel bad for the guy on the aisle... aaawkward.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
I feel zero bad for him. None.


When the police tell you to do something, there is no point in fighting it. It will not help.
So people should just do something even when they know it's wrong?

United Flight 3411: A timeline

The unidentified officer who dragged Dao has since been placed on leave while the Chicago Department of Aviation conducts a review of the incident. The department has said in a statement that "the incident wasn’t in accordance with its standard operating procedure."
Because the police said so?

Refusing to follow orders won't help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin

Claudette Colvin (born September 5, 1939) was a pioneer of the Civil Rights Movement. On March 2, 1955, she was arrested for refusing to give up her seat on a bus in segregated Montgomery, Alabama, nine months prior to Rosa Parks.

Colvin was among the five plaintiffs originally included in the federal court case filed by civil rights attorney Fred Gray on February 1, 1956, as Browder v. Gayle, and she testified before the three-judge panel that heard the case in the United States District Court. On June 13, 1956, the judges determined that the state and local laws requiring bus segregation in Alabama were unconstitutional. The case went to the United States Supreme Court, which upheld their ruling on December 17, 1956. Colvin was the last witness to testify. Three days later, the Supreme Court issued an order to Montgomery and the state of Alabama to end bus segregation, and the Montgomery Bus Boycott was called off.
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Old 04-26-2017, 11:50 AM
  #337  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
he was on the inside seat... I feel bad for the guy on the aisle... aaawkward.
i would have said "um.. officer, your armpit is in my face, let me get out first before you do what you gotta do"
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:10 PM
  #338  
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
So people should just do something even when they know it's wrong?
Yes. The appeals process is clearly documented and accepted nationwide. When a judge gives an unjust ruling, kicking and screaming and throwing a fit will not help. Same applies to cops except that you can expect to be shot while doing so.

Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
File a complaint or risk the consequences.

Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
Because the police said so?
Jesus Christ.
Originally Posted by 720 ILCS 5/31-1
(720 ILCS 5/31-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 31-1) Sec. 31-1. Resisting or obstructing a peace officer, firefighter, or correctional institution employee.
(a) A person who knowingly resists or obstructs the performance by one known to the person to be a peace officer, firefighter, or correctional institution employee of any authorized act within his or her official capacity commits a Class A misdemeanor.
Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
Refusing to follow orders won't help?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudette_Colvin
"...she was arrested for refusing to give up her seat..." "she testified before the three-judge panel that heard the case in the United States District Court. On June 13, 1956, the judges determined that the state and local laws requiring bus segregation in Alabama were unconstitutional."

Thank you for providing such a pristine example to prove my point. I had never even heard that name. 1) She was taken into custody. 2) The judges did not find wrongdoing by the police who arrested her.

Last edited by oo7spy; 04-26-2017 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:21 PM
  #339  
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Effing A... United can't catch a break
United Airlines Under Fire Again After Giant Rabbit Dies On Flight



United Airlines is dealing with yet another PR nightmare after a valuable giant rabbit died on board one of its flights.

United Airlines is dealing with yet another PR nightmare after a valuable giant rabbit died on board one of its flights.

The bunny was a 3-foot Continental Giant rabbit named Simon.

Simon's owner, breeder Annette Edwards, told NBC the 10-month-old rabbit was on track to grow even bigger than his famous father, Darius.

Back in 2010, Darius was certified by the Guinness Book of World Records as the world's longest rabbit.

Edwards shipped Simon in the plane's cargo hold from London to Chicago for his new "celebrity" owner.

When pets ride in a plane's cargo hold, the compartment is pressurized and climate controlled.

Edwards says Simon went to the vet just hours before the flight, and he was "fit as a fiddle." It's still unclear exactly what caused the rabbit's death.

But a United spokesperson told The Guardian the airline was "saddened" to hear the news and is currently reviewing the matter.

This latest incident comes just a few weeks after video showing a passenger being dragged off a United flight sparked outrage around the world. The airline has since apologized.


United Airlines Under Fire Again After Rabbit Dies on Flight (VIDEO)
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:49 PM
  #340  
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fucking.. for real?
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Old 04-26-2017, 03:53 PM
  #341  
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^ United basically just killed the Easter Bunny...
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:01 PM
  #342  
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So, I must now ask...is there some sekrit conspiracy to short United stocks? Cuz, this has to be one large conspiracy.
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:01 PM
  #343  
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And oh, :ibitsobamaorclintonsfault:...
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Old 04-26-2017, 05:11 PM
  #344  
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Originally Posted by Yumcha View Post
And oh, :ibitsobamaorclintonsfault:...
Thanks Bush?
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Old 04-27-2017, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
Yes. The appeals process is clearly documented and accepted nationwide. When a judge gives an unjust ruling, kicking and screaming and throwing a fit will not help. Same applies to cops except that you can expect to be shot while doing so.

File a complaint or risk the consequences.

Jesus Christ.

"...she was arrested for refusing to give up her seat..." "she testified before the three-judge panel that heard the case in the United States District Court. On June 13, 1956, the judges determined that the state and local laws requiring bus segregation in Alabama were unconstitutional."

Thank you for providing such a pristine example to prove my point. I had never even heard that name. 1) She was taken into custody. 2) The judges did not find wrongdoing by the police who arrested her.
My point is that if people like Claudette hadn't stood up for their rights/what they felt was wrong and had just complied with what the officials told them to do, then bus segregation would have continued longer than it did. Her refusal to follow orders lead to change for the better.

Just like Dr. Dao.

United will now offer up to $10,000 for passengers who give up their seat on an overbooked flight

United will now offer up to $10,000 for passengers who give up their seat on an overbooked flight

Apr. 27, 2017

United Airlines hopes more cash, better training and fewer oversold flights will help the airline avoid a repeat of the controversy and public relations disaster that erupted after a passenger was dragged off one of its flights earlier this month.

While CEO Oscar Munoz continues to apologize for how the airline had Dr. David Dao removed from his flight, he is also wrestling with how to change United's culture when it comes to customer relations. As a result, United is instituting 10 policy changes when it comes to overbooking flights, bumping passengers and improving customer service.

Among the new policies that have already gone into effect or will this week:

• United will offer up to $10,000 to customers who volunteer to give up their seat on an overbooked flight. In the incident involving Dao, he and other passengers were offered $800.

• Passengers who are on board and in their seat cannot be removed from a flight unless there is a safety or security issue.

• United will reduce the amount of overbooking, especially on last flights of the day, to a particular destination or on those flights on which passengers tend not to volunteer to give up their seat.

• United is creating a new app for crews to use when handling customer issues.

• United crews will be booked onto flights at least an hour before departure, unless there are open seats.

In addition, the airline says it will provide annual training for gate agents so they can better handle the most difficult situations involving customers.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:40 PM
  #346  
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Of course it took very bad PR to finally get them to budge on policies. This should've been implemented already and I'm not even talking about the $10k amount.
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Old 04-27-2017, 12:55 PM
  #347  
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Diapers with your boarding pass?

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Old 04-27-2017, 01:07 PM
  #348  
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:27 PM
  #349  
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Originally Posted by Nicks2001tl View Post
I think the worst fake news that came out of this is that there was some kind of legal justification for yanking the passenger of the flight.
I agree 100%. My post is to clear up the notion that this was a routine, overbooking with denied boarding. And several posters invoked the Untied carriage contract about overbooking rules and limits on maximum comp and all sorts of things and about how tens of thousands of people get overbooking bumped without issue and that somehow this guy feels special....no this was not the case at all.

You do not violently drag a passenger off the plane when he is posing no security/safety threat and is already seated on the plane. The LEO and United and Dr. Dao could've all, combined....to avoid this but every party chose their actions and the culminations of the 3 parties' choices combined into this result.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:49 PM
  #350  
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I'll get more outraged if they ever throw someone off the plane for too many robots.
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Old 04-27-2017, 02:52 PM
  #351  
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Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
My point is that if people like Claudette hadn't stood up for their rights/what they felt was wrong and had just complied with what the officials told them to do, then bus segregation would have continued longer than it did. Her refusal to follow orders lead to change for the better.

Just like Dr. Dao.
Did Claudette resist and thrash around when the police officers apprehended her? My point is that once a police officer delivers an order to you, an attempt to appeal that order in the moment is ill-advised even if the order is unauthorized.

Maybe something good will will come out of it in the end, but I still don't feel bad for a man who refused to comply with officers and ended up with injuries as a result.
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Old 04-27-2017, 03:07 PM
  #352  
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Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
Same applies to cops except that you can expect to be shot while doing so.
A sad reality for many in today's society. I agree with your argument in its very specific and limited scope...which is that an interference with a LEO's duties may cause unpleasant effects to the subject being the target of that LEO's duty. But I think it's important to look at the context of the situation to see if both parties' behaviors are not only lawful but reasonable and expected for a modern, civil society to function. And as we have seen what's lawful is not always morally/ethically right and vice versa as well. Laws change and get's modified and LEO tactics change and modify with the times and the specific situation.

If a subject is resisting arrest and presents an immediate and bodily harm to the LEO during his/her resistance....then in the LEO is likely justified in using any means necessary to subdue or try to subdue the subject and to protect the LEO and the public. The reaction has to equal the situation.

In other cases, when there is clearly no immediate, physical danger, what should the LEO do in response to a directive from a company to deplane a passenger? Some feel the LEO is justified in whatever means necessary to remove that passenger...even if it means brute physical force. But I think looking at the situation as a whole, there are myriad other ways that that passenger or other volunteers could've been deplaned without resorting to physical violence.
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Old 04-27-2017, 03:15 PM
  #353  
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Such as...?

He didn't taze the guy or pepper spray him. He directed him to move, he refused and stated he would have to be removed. Then the cops removed him, and the guy started resisting. I don't see any evidence that the cop forced his head into the arm rest. Had he even allowed them to remove him without resistance, his face wouldn't have been rearranged.


The idea that we are at the mercy mercy of the police is hard to accept. I am an avid FTP internet-whistleblower, but I understand the reality of what happens when you put law enforcement into action. In a utopian society LEOs and civilians wouldn't have misunderstandings about authorized force, but that's not where we are. One thing I will be absolutely sure to teach my kids is to respect law enforcement and comply with their orders for their own safety. We can get a lawyer if we need to appeal an order.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:28 PM
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-...ght-1493321800

United Airlines Reaches Settlement With Passenger Dragged Off Chicago Flight

Agreement with David Dao for undisclosed amount comes after airline issues report on shortcomings contributing to incident

April 27, 2017 4:54 p.m. ET

United Airlines has reached a settlement with David Dao, the Kentucky physician forcibly pulled off an April 9 flight from Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport, in the latest step by the carrier to put the crisis behind it.

Terms of the deal weren’t disclosed. The agreement comes nearly three weeks after the incident, which sparked global outrage after it was shared on social media.

Since the incident, United Continental Holdings Inc. has come under mounting pressure to make changes to policies affecting customer service. Earlier Thursday, the carrier issued a report concluding that shortcomings in customer service, training and internal systems contributed to the incident and promised to address them this year. Next Tuesday, Mr. Munoz is expected to testify Tuesday at a House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee hearing on airline consumer affairs.

Tom Demetrio, an attorney for Dr. Dao, praised United for quickly taking “full responsibility” and added that he was releasing the City of Chicago and Republic Airways Holdings Inc., which operated the flight in question, from any liability for their roles in the incident.

The city’s Department of Aviation officers removed Dr. Dao from the plane, dragging him down the aisle on his back. Mr. Demetrio has said Dr. Dao suffered a concussion, broken nose and two lost teeth. The city placed three aviation officers involved in the incident on leave.

Dr. Dao remains in a “secluded location and he’s healing,” said Stephen Golan, another attorney for the physician.

United said it was pleased to reach “an amicable resolution.” A spokesman for Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel declined to comment on the settlement. A Republic spokesman declined to comment.

Mr. Demetrio, a high-profile personal-injury lawyer in Chicago, is known for pushing for settlements to be made public. But he said he wasn’t worried Dr. Dao’s confidential settlement would fall short in deterring such incidents in the future.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:43 PM
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I was kind of hoping to see this get dragged through the courts.

I wonder how many million$ he got. I'd say at least 5.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:33 PM
  #356  
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$34.50.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:02 PM
  #357  
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Must be nice.
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:32 PM
  #358  
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Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
Such as...?

He didn't taze the guy or pepper spray him. He directed him to move, he refused and stated he would have to be removed. Then the cops removed him, and the guy started resisting. I don't see any evidence that the cop forced his head into the arm rest. Had he even allowed them to remove him without resistance, his face wouldn't have been rearranged.


The idea that we are at the mercy mercy of the police is hard to accept. I am an avid FTP internet-whistleblower, but I understand the reality of what happens when you put law enforcement into action. In a utopian society LEOs and civilians wouldn't have misunderstandings about authorized force, but that's not where we are. One thing I will be absolutely sure to teach my kids is to respect law enforcement and comply with their orders for their own safety. We can get a lawyer if we need to appeal an order.
Many ways that all parties could've handled this better:

-United could've easily upped the voucher amount and when you get close to several thousands in voucher value, even if it's a United-only travel voucher (much less value than hard cash, which some passengers were demanding cash compensation), you would've likely started getting interest in people wanting to give up their seat.

-United could've arranged for their crew to fly on an alternative plane to their destination.

-United could've NOT used airport LEO to handle the situation with United's own employees. Potentially less likely to use violent force to remove a passenger.

-The LEO could've chose not to use force to enact United's order. This area I'm not as clear on since the LEO is acting on behalf of a private company (United) but is within the LEO's jurisdiction of aviation safety/security. I'm not sure if the LEO had an obligation to carry out his order (given the chain of command originated from United) no matter what. Would he have violated his own organization's policy if he did NOT use force? (The other 2 LEO did not use force AFAIK). Again this gets into more complex definitions.

-The LEO could've used less force when dealing with Dr. Dao's resistance. So that he is not yanked out of the seat which led to the LEO directly causing Dr. Dao's brain injury and fractures.

-Dr. Dao could've complied peacefully with the LEO's request and walked out just as 2 other passengers did.

The video evidence suggests the LEO's pulling caused Dao's head to hit the armrest and causing other facial injuries. Of course useless to argue over these kinds of things on the internet in specific detail. But yes, there was also evidence of Dao resisting the act of LEO's forcibly removing him from his seat. So the second Dao started to resist is it right that basically at that point it's fair game and open season for the civilians? As you said, reality is reality. We are definitely not living in an utopian society and I completely understand the reality of police brutality and that for their own sake, citizens has a high likelihood of being safe if they 100% comply with whatever LEOs instruct.

I think we should always strive to improve society and not accept things that are not justified/reasonable/right. Yes Dao did resist his forced removal from the plane. Does this crime deserve the complete man-handling of him by the LEO to the degree as displayed on video? I don't think so and many don't. Equal actions should have reasonable reactions.

One of the more fundamental question becomes: If you resist being forcibly removed from a plane seat that your paid for and you are not an immediate danger to the public....then what is a reasonable reaction/level of force to deal with this situation?

I agree you can expect some level of physicality from the LEO but to the point where it leads to facial fractures and a brain injury is too much IMO.

IMO, the underlying fault for this entire incident lies with all parties involved, but United and LEO share much more of the blame for this outcome than Dao proprtionally.

We should always strive to protect public/safety with minimal harm to those in the surroundings, the LEO, and lastly to the suspect/perp. We definitely do not live in an utopian society, but should always strive to improve policies/training where-ever they are deficient.

I do agree with you though that for maximal personal safety that we as a public and (for my future kids) that I will whole-heartedly teach 100% compliance with LEO given the state of our current affairs to minimize harm done to self.

Originally Posted by AZuser View Post
I was kind of hoping to see this get dragged through the courts.

I wonder how many million$ he got. I'd say at least 5.
Wow, I did not expect United to settle so quickly. I guess with how much bad PR they've been getting they were likely willing to give up anything Dao's lawyers were asking. Would've been really bad if they tried to fight it.

I'm guessing it's EASILY in the single digit millions. Would be interesting to know the approximate amount though...which would likely never come to public light...
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:38 PM
  #359  
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
Must be nice.
A dad/husband/uncle/brother/etc. is shown being dragged down a plane aisle with glasses hanging off, belly showing...repeated on nightly news for millions to see (and forever immortalized on YouTube) and then runs back on confused saying someone kill him...and is the subject of intense public scrutiny and attention.

With him being a physician, I'm sure that's how he would've loved to make his millions.

Nice indeed.
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Old 04-27-2017, 07:09 PM
  #360  
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I'll gladly trade places with him
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