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Old 04-13-2017, 11:52 AM
  #241  
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I heard required..

So many stories from news and experts asking why they didn't keep going up and up to 3k or even 5k.
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:53 AM
  #242  
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I have seen it gone over $1350..
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:04 PM
  #243  
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Originally Posted by svtmike View Post
Is $1350 the max required by law or the max allowed by law?
$1350 is the Dept of Transportation limit (what they think it should be). Airlines are by no means required by law to adhere to that limit though. Airlines can and have gone above it. It's up to each individual airline. United was just being cheap in this instance.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:05 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by imj0257 View Post
I heard required..

So many stories from news and experts asking why they didn't keep going up and up to 3k or even 5k.

I think that is mainly due to the price of the ticket from ORD to Kentucky... i mean offering $3k voucher on a $300 ticket is kinda high.... at least it seemed to be the case at the moment.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:13 PM
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United Airlines ejection more harrowing than fleeing Vietnam, says attorney for David Dao - MarketWatch

United Airlines ejection more harrowing than fleeing Vietnam, says attorney for David Dao

Apr 13, 2017 12:39 p.m. ET

An attorney for David Dao, the United Airlines passenger forcibly removed from his flight, said at a news conference Thursday the incident is “probably” going to result in a lawsuit against the air carrier.

Dao’s attorney, Thomas Demetrio, said he had a bad concussion, lost two front teeth and suffered a broken nose and injuries to his sinuses, for which he will undergo reconstructive surgery. Dao was dragged off a flight at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport on Sunday in which United wanted to accommodate four of its own employees.

Demetrio said his 69-year-old client’s experience was “more harrowing” than fleeing Vietnam.

“So, will there be a lawsuit? Yeah probably,” Demetrio said, referring to United Continental Holdings Inc. the parent of United Airlines. Demetrio also said the city of Chicago might be liable for the incident, which was captured on cellphone video by two passengers on the flight and went viral.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:16 PM
  #246  
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The whole process of over-booking and bumping does not seem right to me. I understand the rationale of keeping costs low, but if I paid for a seat, it's my seat, whether I'm in the seat or not. If I want to pay for an empty seat to fly back and forth across the country, that should be my prerogative.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:23 PM
  #247  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
The whole process of over-booking and bumping does not seem right to me. I understand the rationale of keeping costs low, but if I paid for a seat, it's my seat, whether I'm in the seat or not. If I want to pay for an empty seat to fly back and forth across the country, that should be my prerogative.
I think the 'over-booking' thing is because 10-20 years ago people would book flights but not show up, so I guess they started selling more tickets than seats available.. and in the end, for the most part, we never heard of situations like this. Nowadays, people who buy tickets actually show up and fly, but the airlines are still doing the overbooking thing ... the airlines realized this a long time ago but never adapted their overbooking policies it seems like.

I know this because when I was younger ... ~15 years ago ... my family and I would almost always fly stand-by because we knew we would get on the plane even if it was 'full' - and that was the case.. we got on like 95% of the flights. Nowadays, it is virtually impossible to fly stand-by because the ticketed passengers actually show up.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:24 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
This would piss me off... bumped to economy so someone else can have my first class seat.
I've had this happen to me too. I got pissed because it once was for the flight attendant and her jump seat was broken. In the grand scheme of things I figured it wasn't a big deal. Here is where things are different - she came back, found me at my seat in coach, thanked me for being understanding and offered me the same beer or snack I would get in first class. The other time it was for an Executive Platinum Member. Again, it sucked but what can I do. The flipside of that is I cannot count the number of times that I bumped someone off the standby list on AA or Southwest just because my Kung Fu was better than their Kung Fu.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:25 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
I think that is mainly due to the price of the ticket from ORD to Kentucky... i mean offering $3k voucher on a $300 ticket is kinda high.... at least it seemed to be the case at the moment.

That argument is pedantic, it doesn't matter the cost of the ticket. It's about the costs of everything down the line. They overbooked, they take that risk every day hoping people will not show up. 9/10 they don't. But when they do all show up, then they need to react accordingly.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RaviNJCLs View Post
it sucked but what can I do.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:32 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
The whole process of over-booking and bumping does not seem right to me. I understand the rationale of keeping costs low, but if I paid for a seat, it's my seat, whether I'm in the seat or not. If I want to pay for an empty seat to fly back and forth across the country, that should be my prerogative.
I agree with this. It's paid for, they got their money, they have less weight on the plane (so better fuel economy! ), that should be the end of it. Otherwise, the airlines are just double dipping on the same seat. I can't think of any other business that allows double dipping so freely.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:33 PM
  #252  
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I can't remember the last time I flew on a plane that had empty seats.


Good luck trying to sell that one guys
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:34 PM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by imj0257 View Post
I think the 'over-booking' thing is because 10-20 years ago people would book flights but not show up, so I guess they started selling more tickets than seats available.. and in the end, for the most part, we never heard of situations like this. Nowadays, people who buy tickets actually show up and fly, but the airlines are still doing the overbooking thing ... the airlines realized this a long time ago but never adapted their overbooking policies it seems like.

I know this because when I was younger ... ~15 years ago ... my family and I would almost always fly stand-by because we knew we would get on the plane even if it was 'full' - and that was the case.. we got on like 95% of the flights. Nowadays, it is virtually impossible to fly stand-by because the ticketed passengers actually show up.
Over booking has been happening forever. There is a ton of people that miss a flight, catch an earlier flight or simply cancel a flight.. I hate the policy but most times it works out well for someone. Typically people get the choice to give up a seat. I hardly ever see someone 100% bumped off a flight. Usually someone takes the money for a later flight. I just think United messed up this one and it's biting them in the ass.

For instance - I was flying home yesterday and the gate across mine has an oversold situation. The Gate Attendant did exactly what I've seen AA do in the past. She simply announced that they were in an oversold situation and looking for someone to volunteer their seat. In exchange they would be offered $400 and meal vouchers. She even said that the next flight was not until the next day so they would offer hotel voucher. The person that volunteered did the right thing - they asked for $600 plus a refund for their flight. It was not an issue.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:34 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
I think that is mainly due to the price of the ticket from ORD to Kentucky... i mean offering $3k voucher on a $300 ticket is kinda high.... at least it seemed to be the case at the moment.
Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
That argument is pedantic, it doesn't matter the cost of the ticket. It's about the costs of everything down the line. They overbooked, they take that risk every day hoping people will not show up. 9/10 they don't. But when they do all show up, then they need to react accordingly.
yes, I agree with Thoi. I would have more sympathy for the airlines if they weren't posting record profits, year after year, but seriously, losing $3000 because of their own mistakes is not asking for a lot.

Let's also keep in mind that a $3000 voucher to us results in maybe $1500 loss to the airline. Just because they give you a 3k voucher, does not mean they are losing 3k.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
I can't remember the last time I flew on a plane that had empty seats.


Good luck trying to sell that one guys
I would say this year about 50% of my flights have had empty seats on AA and Southwest. I'm up to about 50 flights this year so far.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:41 PM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by RaviNJCLs View Post
I would say this year about 50% of my flights have had empty seats on AA and Southwest. I'm up to about 50 flights this year so far.
Interesting... 47 segments so far this year with Delta and none of them were empty. All had standby lists that bled onto the next flight.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:46 PM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by RaviNJCLs View Post
I've had this happen to me too. I got pissed because it once was for the flight attendant and her jump seat was broken. In the grand scheme of things I figured it wasn't a big deal. Here is where things are different - she came back, found me at my seat in coach, thanked me for being understanding and offered me the same beer or snack I would get in first class. The other time it was for an Executive Platinum Member. Again, it sucked but what can I do. The flipside of that is I cannot count the number of times that I bumped someone off the standby list on AA or Southwest just because my Kung Fu was better than their Kung Fu.
Your particular circumstances, aside this is still not right. I can't think of another transaction that this sort of thing would be considered acceptable... maybe the hospital emergency room, but that's need based. This is practically classism.

Moreover, I would be embarrassed to be the person removing someone else from their seat, just so I can sit in a better seat.
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:50 PM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
The whole process of over-booking and bumping does not seem right to me. I understand the rationale of keeping costs low, but if I paid for a seat, it's my seat, whether I'm in the seat or not. If I want to pay for an empty seat to fly back and forth across the country, that should be my prerogative.
You would assume that regulation and policies are more "reasonable" but the truth is, most of them are not.

Example, If you paid for a round trip ticket or a 3 legs stopover ticket, you would assume that if you missed a flight, then only that part of the flight will be canceled right?
Nope, your entire itinerary will be canceled even tho you paid for the entire trip.

Many things do not make sense with airlines..
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Old 04-13-2017, 12:56 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
That argument is pedantic, it doesn't matter the cost of the ticket. It's about the costs of everything down the line. They overbooked, they take that risk every day hoping people will not show up. 9/10 they don't. But when they do all show up, then they need to react accordingly.

As a passenger i agree with you. But from a business perspective, they do not look at things that way obviously. Of course, as a business, sometimes they pay hefty prices for those mistakes. (lawsuits, recalls, loss of customer and many many more)
They might improve on things but they will not fundamentally change the way they operate.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TacoBello View Post
yes, I agree with Thoi. I would have more sympathy for the airlines if they weren't posting record profits, year after year, but seriously, losing $3000 because of their own mistakes is not asking for a lot.

Let's also keep in mind that a $3000 voucher to us results in maybe $1500 loss to the airline. Just because they give you a 3k voucher, does not mean they are losing 3k.

Don't get me wrong. I am not a fan of UA myself. They jacked up all the fees and implemented many new fees years ago due to the high oil prices... now the oil prices have lowered, but i do not see any changes for their fees. And don't get me started on their fees on changing ticket. The fee costs more than the ticket itself....

But in this incident, IMO, while UA definitely could have handled the things much better. But the Police officers were the blame to use such unnecessary force to remove the passenger.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:04 PM
  #261  
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What if they didn't overbook. And then had a 5 minute "pre doors closed" cutoff and then for whoever is on standby can buy that seat. No overbookings and still a full flight. Is that feasible?
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
They jacked up all the fees and implemented many new fees years ago due to the high oil prices... now the oil prices have lowered, but i do not see any changes for their fees. And don't get me started on their fees on changing ticket. The fee costs more than the ticket itself....

But in this incident, IMO, while UA definitely could have handled the things much better. But the Police officers were the blame to use such unnecessary force to remove the passenger.
Businesses seem to find any excuse to increase or maintain higher prices. Oh oil, oh bad economy, oh people are fatter so higher costs.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
Interesting... 47 segments so far this year with Delta and none of them were empty. All had standby lists that bled onto the next flight.
I think it varies from airlines to airline and their co-share airlines.

I have been on planes that are co-shared by 4 different airlines well obviously it was jam packed. If they can't pack the whole plane with 4 airlines, then maybe that route should be canceled.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:09 PM
  #264  
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I believe this all stems from people being greedy. Come on when can you make $800 in what could be 2 hours and still get to your destination that day? Everyone on that flight, I guarantee, probably didn't have to be home that instant. Some of the other concerned passengers should have stepped up and accepted the offer. I know I would have if I had no place to be.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Doom878 View Post
What if they didn't overbook. And then had a 5 minute "pre doors closed" cutoff and then for whoever is on standby can buy that seat. No overbookings and still a full flight. Is that feasible?
IMO.. feasible? yes.

Not sure about the 5 minutes but i think the current standby process is similar to what you just said.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I believe this all stems from people being greedy. Come on when can you make $800 in what could be 2 hours and still get to your destination that day? Everyone on that flight, I guarantee, probably didn't have to be home that instant. Some of the other concerned passengers should have stepped up and accepted the offer. I know I would have if I had no place to be.
The current situation would have been much different if those 2 police officers did not drag that guy when he was in no immediate threat to anyone.

UA will still get bad PR for it but not close to where it is today.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:19 PM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by RaviNJCLs View Post
I've had this happen to me too. I got pissed because it once was for the flight attendant and her jump seat was broken. In the grand scheme of things I figured it wasn't a big deal. Here is where things are different - she came back, found me at my seat in coach, thanked me for being understanding and offered me the same beer or snack I would get in first class. The other time it was for an Executive Platinum Member. Again, it sucked but what can I do. The flipside of that is I cannot count the number of times that I bumped someone off the standby list on AA or Southwest just because my Kung Fu was better than their Kung Fu.
Actually, flight attendent is fairly reasonable.
It makes sense that she needs to be near the front of the plane, and if they discovered the seat was broke after everyone was seated.......
It's not like he/she could take the next flight.

The executive platinum member is kind of crap though. Part of the perks is to kick someone out of a seat if you check in too late?

I don't mind overbooking. I've seen empty seats on flights. I've cancelled flights with refunds before, and in the past I've missed flights and not had
to pay for my seat on the next plane (that was a while ago, but still). I haven't seen rampant overbooking. The key is to handle it correctly.

It's amazing to me, that In this day and age of social media, that people still do such stupid things in public like this.
If you something that is viewed by a crowd of people, then it's going to be posted on social media. And the stupider it is, the more
viral it will be and it will be thrown/memed in your face till the end of time.

While I'm posting, I just saw the news that United refunded the ticket of EVERY passenger on that flight.
That's ,,,,,, random.

- Frank

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Old 04-13-2017, 01:25 PM
  #268  
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I'm guessing this won't go to trial, UAL is going to try to settle. They will do whatever they can to bury this story as quick as possible. The guy is being a little over dramatic that it was more harrowing then fleeing to Vietnam. Give me a break. It's stupid United will have to pay out for an officer or two's stupidity in this situation. It's not like United asked them to beat this guy senseless. Reasonably, United should compensate him (several thousands) for a major inconvenience, pay for his medical bills and try to make good with him as a customer, but lawyers will make this situation in a huge deal. Flight prices will creep up for them to recoup the loss for sure.
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Old 04-13-2017, 01:31 PM
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I am not sure about their price increase tho...

I think they will lower the prices to keep their current customer base.

It would be suicide if they are more expensive than others + having PR nightmare at the same time.
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Old 04-13-2017, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I believe this all stems from people being greedy. Come on when can you make $800 in what could be 2 hours and still get to your destination that day? Everyone on that flight, I guarantee, probably didn't have to be home that instant.
Guarantee?

The next available flight wasn't until the following day at 3PM. People usually need to go to work on Monday mornings. Maybe the passengers had kids or a family they needed to get back to. Maybe someone had a business they needed to run. Maybe someone needed to attend an important business meeting Monday morning. In this guy's case, he said he had patients to see (he's a doctor).

WATCH: Man forcibly removed from overbooked United flight NJ.com

A man who refused to surrender his seat on an overbooked United Airlines flight on Sunday was dragged off the plane by security, according to multiple videos and eyewitness accounts.

Four passengers on a flight scheduled from Chicago to Louisville were asked to take a flight the following day so United employees could take the seats in order to arrive in Kentucky in time for their next flights, Courier-Journal.com said.

The woman who shot one of the many videos, Audra D. Bridges, said United offered passengers $400 and a free night in a hotel to take a flight at 3 p.m. Monday. When no one said yes, the airline doubled the offer to $800. Again, no one accepted the deal.

Then, United said a computer would randomly choose which passengers had to depart the already-boarded flight.

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Old 04-13-2017, 02:56 PM
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Could have looked at other airlines and had UA pay for it. Could have had multiple options to handle the situation by both parties. In the end UA looks bad, very bad!
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Old 04-13-2017, 03:36 PM
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:14 PM
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^^^^He was Vietnamese....Immigrated to the U.S. in 1975.
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Old 04-13-2017, 04:59 PM
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he is Vietnamese Chinese mix
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Old 04-13-2017, 08:36 PM
  #275  
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None of these phaggots should,be able to sell more tickets, than they have room for asses to sit down.
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Old 04-13-2017, 09:06 PM
  #276  
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It should be illegal for them to boot you once you have your seat assignment. I didn't even know that was a thing until I saw this story. I've seen it done in the boarding area plenty of times but never seen it done on the plane.

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Old 04-13-2017, 09:28 PM
  #277  
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All the airlines claim overbooking is required to be profitable as empty seats cost them money. If people are buying tickets upfront, shouldn't the rule be miss your flight your shit out of luck and we keep your money.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:55 PM
  #278  
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Originally Posted by cM3go View Post
Unfortunately United is only to offer up to $1350, I believe its an FAA rule. I don't know why they stopped at $800, they should have gone the full max and then started to select passengers to get off or the better option, put the employees on another plane via United flight or charter.
Except in my reading of the facts... this FAA rule does not apply at all...since he was not denied boarding. He has already boarded and is seated in the plane.

The FAA legalese refers to "denied boarding." Which did not occur in this case. Someone posted a graphic of tens of thousands of people compensated for denied boarding....but this case seems more exceptional since he has already boarded so different sets of rules/laws may apply....

250.5 Amount of denied boarding compensation for passengers denied boarding involuntarily.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5

Plus this rule is in a chapter that governs "Oversales" which also did not occur in this case. The flight, AFAIK, is 100% booked (not overbooked). And United chose to kick out paying customers to seat United employees.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:14 AM
  #279  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I believe this all stems from people being greedy. Come on when can you make $800 in what could be 2 hours and still get to your destination that day? Everyone on that flight, I guarantee, probably didn't have to be home that instant. Some of the other concerned passengers should have stepped up and accepted the offer. I know I would have if I had no place to be.
The $800 is not straight cash (some customers demanded cash/cash-equivalent payment and I'd think they would've taken up the offer for that amount) but travel vouchers for future United flights. The value in the passengers' minds were likely quite low...not like they can convert it to regular $800 from a normal work duty. Plus the opportunity cost of time. If they offered cash-equivalent in that amount OR a higher travel voucher amount ($1k or more) they could've easily easily avoided this situation. Even though the FAA has a max of $1350 for compensation (which again this was not a denied boarding case) they could've easily gone over that and get people to volunteer to de-plane peacefully.

A multi-billion dollar company tries to save a few hundred/thousand dollars and now is going to cost them millions...the greedy one isn't the passengers in this case.

Plus pretty bold for you to claim that you "guarantee" everyone on that flight "probably" didn't have to be home in that instant. lol...we have no idea why each of them were going and what time they needed to get there.

Last edited by nist7; 04-14-2017 at 08:21 AM.
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Old 04-14-2017, 08:27 AM
  #280  
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Originally Posted by jupitersolo View Post
None of these phaggots should,be able to sell more tickets, than they have room for asses to sit down.
Agreed...

But that's not what happened here.
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