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Old 04-11-2017, 05:13 PM
  #161  
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Now that you mention it, there is video of the guy coming back on the plane, and
he's definitely not bleeding at the mouth or anything.

If he was pushing/forcing his way past security to get on the plane, then that change things, possibly fairly significantly.
You would think that UA would have been broadcasting that information left and right though.
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by stogie1020 View Post
I think Chod hit the nail on the head. This guy was not denied boarding, he was forcibly removed form his seat after he boarded, sat down, put on his seat belt, read the safety information card in the seat back pocket and used a wet wipe to wipe off the tray (that he subsequently stowed for takeoff).

Sure, United could have upped the incentive, but they also could have bought their crew seats on a different airline's flight, even first class seats (that often go unused) at a lower cost than what this will eventually settle out to.
Yup. This is not denial of boarding but a violent removal of the paying passenger. And btw the plane was not oversold either.

It's just stupid business decision by UAL. Would've been MUCH easier as you said to somehow accomodate UAL employees on another flight as NONE in this plane wanted to give up their seat.

Or they could've offered cash incentive...which my colleague said is what he read that passengers wanted but UAL refused. A news piece mentioned a passenger wanted $1600 but UAL "laughed" at him.

And as you said, the settlement for this man as well as the financial damage from the PR will cost UAL far far more than what they could've done to avoid this situation.

I've got people telling me they'll boycott UAL for good......
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:37 PM
  #163  
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Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post
4 people were asked to get off said plane for compensation 3 of them did and got paid, the 4th... well he got an ass whipping that he will never forget.... And for the record United did not whip this man's ass the CPD O'Hare division did...

oh, and telling people you are going to call your lawyer.... priceless...
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:56 PM
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:42 PM
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:42 PM
  #166  
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Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
^^^Exactly.

I mentioned it as well....Sec 25 in UAL's contract specifically notes "boarding." But in this case the passengers are already boarded....so a lawyer can easily take this up in court.

Also the flight was NOT oversold AFAIK. It was 100% booked, and UAL needed 4 seats for their own employees and wished to bump paying customers.

This was my gripe with certain posters above who kept mentioning non-relevant stats about denied boarding and overselling....which did NOT occur in this case.

I've seen countless people getting "bumped" after they were offered vouchers...but this was all handled BEFORE boarding.

I've never seen people being removed from a plane AFTER they boarded.....probably because to avoid situations like this. Having to forcibly remove a passenger is bad enough but to do it in this way is just disaster for all involved.

Many of my colleagues are saying that this dude is gonna have some huge pay day coming to him now. UAL and the Aviation police...

Yeah, flight was not oversold.
The flight and crew was United Express (Republic Airlines).
The gate agents/supervisors were United employees.
The 4 employees who showed up late to the gate (apparently due to no fault of their own) were Republic crew dead heading to Louisville to work a flight out of Louisville that day.
The gate agents (United) own the flight until the cabin door closes. It's unlikely that the Republic crew had any part in the decision making.
As near as I can tell, this incident does not fall under rule 25 (denied boarding).
United could have offered $2000/each ($8000 total) and it would have been a whole lot cheaper that the ensuing fallout that they'll face over the coming weeks...
The Dr. has already "lawyered up". Cha ching..

Originally Posted by ChodTheWacko View Post
Now that you mention it, there is video of the guy coming back on the plane, and
he's definitely not bleeding at the mouth or anything.

If he was pushing/forcing his way past security to get on the plane, then that change things, possibly fairly significantly.
You would think that UA would have been broadcasting that information left and right though.
Dunno, but sure looks like blood on his right cheek:


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Old 04-11-2017, 07:08 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
Yup. This is not denial of boarding but a violent removal of the paying passenger. And btw the plane was not oversold either.

It's just stupid business decision by UAL. Would've been MUCH easier as you said to somehow accomodate UAL employees on another flight as NONE in this plane wanted to give up their seat.

Or they could've offered cash incentive...which my colleague said is what he read that passengers wanted but UAL refused. A news piece mentioned a passenger wanted $1600 but UAL "laughed" at him.

And as you said, the settlement for this man as well as the financial damage from the PR will cost UAL far far more than what they could've done to avoid this situation.

I've got people telling me they'll boycott UAL for good......
We will see how long they will last. I mean if they only fly once every few years, sure. It does not matter to UA anyways. But for frequent flyers, sometimes you just don't have a lot of choices depends on the departure/arrival cities and time too.
I am curious how many will actually boycott if that is the only flight out in the morning at the lowest fare, and instead they will pay more and wait for another fly 6 hours later because they are "boycotting" UA.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:33 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Doom878 View Post
What is the proper procedure to take out a passenger in this scenario? What if it's a very large person that cannot simply be dragged?
I would say a lot of LEO`s, and the plane would not leave until the passenger was removed.

The guy they yanked off the plane wasn`t tiny by any means but when CPD is on the job no passenger is to big for them....just another day on the job.....
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:13 PM
  #169  
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:18 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by nfnsquared View Post
Yeah, flight was not oversold.
The flight and crew was United Express (Republic Airlines).
The gate agents/supervisors were United employees.
The 4 employees who showed up late to the gate (apparently due to no fault of their own) were Republic crew dead heading to Louisville to work a flight out of Louisville that day.
The gate agents (United) own the flight until the cabin door closes. It's unlikely that the Republic crew had any part in the decision making.
As near as I can tell, this incident does not fall under rule 25 (denied boarding).
United could have offered $2000/each ($8000 total) and it would have been a whole lot cheaper that the ensuing fallout that they'll face over the coming weeks...
The Dr. has already "lawyered up". Cha ching..
Interesting. Thanks for the additional info.

Here's another comment that's been passed around on reddit but comes from a commentor on the points guy website:

Lawyer here. This myth that passengers don't have rights needs to go away, ASAP. You are dead wrong when saying that United legally kicked him off the plane.

1. First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about "OVERSELLING", which is specifically defined as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to deny boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply.

2. Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal-- they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a.

3. Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted. He's going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.
source: https://thepointsguy.com/2017/04/you...luntary-bumps/

Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
We will see how long they will last. I mean if they only fly once every few years, sure. It does not matter to UA anyways. But for frequent flyers, sometimes you just don't have a lot of choices depends on the departure/arrival cities and time too.
I am curious how many will actually boycott if that is the only flight out in the morning at the lowest fare, and instead they will pay more and wait for another fly 6 hours later because they are "boycotting" UA.
Right. They'll get a small hit recently but in the long-term probably not much financial effects at all.

Similar to who is still boycotting BP or Wells Fargo or Nestle or Nike....
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:33 PM
  #171  
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Still boycotting BP
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:24 PM
  #172  
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:25 PM
  #173  
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Yeumaimai probably thinks Rosa deserved what she got
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:54 PM
  #174  
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I agree that boycotts aren't as affective in markets with little option. If I could stick it to Time Warner Cable and AT&T Wireless, I would do it in a heartbeat. Instead, I'm forced to try my best to pay them as little as possible. If United has a non-stop for the same price as AA or SWA with a stop, I'm taking the non-stop flight. Layovers suck.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:55 PM
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:11 PM
  #176  
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That's just about the funniest burn I've seen, in a long time.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:47 PM
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:48 PM
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:45 AM
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Old 04-12-2017, 04:57 AM
  #180  
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:14 AM
  #181  
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These guys don't learn

United passenger threatened with handcuffs to make room for 'higher-priority' traveler - LA Times

t’s hard to find examples of worse decision-making and customer treatment than United Airlines having a passenger dragged from an overbooked plane. But United’s shabby treatment of Geoff Fearns, including a threat to place him in handcuffs, comes close.

Fearns, 59, is president of TriPacific Capital Advisors, an Irvine investment firm that handles more than half a billion dollars in real estate holdings on behalf of public pension funds. He had to fly to Hawaii last week for a business conference.

Fearns needed to return early so he paid about $1,000 for a full-fare, first-class ticket to Los Angeles. He boarded the aircraft at Lihue Airport on the island of Kauai, took his seat and enjoyed a complimentary glass of orange juice while awaiting takeoff.

Then, as Fearns tells it, a United employee rushed onto the aircraft and informed him that he had to get off the plane.

“I asked why,” he told me. “They said the flight was overfull.”


Fearns, like the doctor at the center of that viral video from Sunday night, held his ground. He was already on the plane, already seated. He shouldn’t have to disembark.

“That’s when they told me they needed the seat for somebody more important who came at the last minute,” Fearns said. “They said they have a priority list and this other person was higher on the list than me.”They said they’d put me in cuffs if they had to.— Geoff FearnsApparently United had some mechanical troubles with the aircraft scheduled to make the flight. So the carrier swapped out that plane with a slightly smaller one with fewer first-class seats.Suddenly it had more first-class passengers than it knew what to do with. So it turned to its “How to Screw Over Customers” handbook and determined that the one in higher standing — more miles flown, presumably — gets the seat and the other first-class passenger, even though he’s also a member of the frequent-flier program, gets the boot.

“I understand you might bump people because a flight is full,” Fearns said. “But they didn’t say anything at the gate. I was already in the seat. And now they were telling me I had no choice. They said they’d put me in cuffs if they had to.”

You couldn’t make this up if you tried.

It shouldn’t make any difference where a passenger is seated or how much he or she paid for their ticket. But you have to admire the sheer chutzpah of United putting the arm on a full-fare, first-class traveler. If there’s anybody whose business you want to safeguard and cultivate, it’s that person.

So how could United possibly make things worse? Not to worry. This is the airline that knows how to add insult to injury.

A United employee, responding to Fearns’ complaint that he shouldn’t have to miss the flight, compromised by downgrading him to economy class and placing him in the middle seat between a married couple who were in the midst of a nasty fight and refused to be seated next to each other.

“They argued the whole way back,” Fearns recalled. “Nearly six hours. It was a lot of fun.”Back in Southern California, he consulted his lawyer and then wrote to United’s chief executive, Oscar Munoz, who commended airline workers after the passenger-dragging incident “for continuing to go above and beyond to ensure we fly right.”

Fearns requested a full refund for his flight from Kauai and asked for United to make a $25,000 donation to the charity of his choice. This is how rich guys do it.

He received an email back from a United “corporate customer care specialist” apologizing that Fearns apparently had an unpleasant experience. But, no, forget about a refund.

As for that charitable donation, what are you kidding? A hard no on that.

Instead, the service rep offered to refund Fearns the difference between his first-class ticket and an economy ticket — about a week later, as if that wasn’t the first thing they should do in a situation like this — and to give him a $500 credit for a future trip on the airline.

“Despite the negative experience, we hope to have your continued support,” the rep concluded. “Your business is especially important to us and we'll do our utmost to make your future contacts with United satisfactory in every respect.”

I reached out to United and asked if anyone cared to comment on Fearns’ adventure in corporate catastrophe. No one got back to me.

Julia Underwood, a business professor at Azusa Pacific University, said United’s actions in both the dragged-off-the-plane episode and with Fearns reflect a coldhearted mindset utterly devoid of compassion for customers.

“They’re so locked into their policies, there’s no room for empathy,” she said.

As a result, Underwood said, situations that should be manageable spiral out of control and result in unnecessarily messy PR disasters.

“What United and all companies need to do is to train and empower workers to deal with specific issues as they arise,” she said. “Don’t just follow whatever is written in your policies.”

I couldn’t agree more. United is neck-deep in trouble this week because its workers are clearly out of their depth in handling out-of-the-ordinary events. You have to think someone on the flight crew would have been able to step up, if given the trust and authority to do so by the carrier.

Fearns said three different members of the crew on his middle-seat, economy-class return to L.A. apologized for how he was treated in Hawaii. But they said they were unable to do anything.

He’s now considering a lawsuit against United — and he certainly has the resources to press his case.

I asked if he’ll ever fly United again.

Fearns could only laugh. “Are you kidding?”
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Old 04-12-2017, 07:56 AM
  #182  
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Old 04-12-2017, 08:02 AM
  #183  
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I would have told the couple to STFU or I would have joined in their arguing like a shunned second wife.
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Old 04-12-2017, 09:31 AM
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:15 AM
  #185  
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Someone asked for this.....

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Old 04-12-2017, 10:18 AM
  #186  
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This is United!
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:19 AM
  #187  
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I am not sure if this was said already, but I heard last night on the news stating that this "doctor" had his license suspended years ago. I don't think he had to be home for anything relating to him being a doctor. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: late to the party as always!

Last edited by BreezyTL; 04-12-2017 at 10:23 AM.
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:32 AM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I am not sure if this was said already, but I heard last night on the news stating that this "doctor" had his license suspended years ago. I don't think he had to be home for anything relating to him being a doctor. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: late to the party as always!
All healthcare profiler license are all public info

License verfications
Kentucky: GenSearch

http://www.state.ky.us/agencies/kbml...ders/22439.pdf

David A. D. Dao M.D.

License:
22439
Status:
Active Physician
Expiration:
2/28/2018 0:00:00
Practice County:
Hardin
*Area of Practice:
Internal Medicine
Type of Practice:
Private Practice
Year Licensed in KY:
1/27/1983 0:00:00
Medical School:
University of Medicine of Ho Chi Minh City
Year Graduated:
1974
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Old 04-12-2017, 10:53 AM
  #189  
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He is also allowed under agreement to only practice once a week, inpatient only. Unrelated, his wife is a pediatrician.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:02 AM
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Going to be set of the next 3 generations :p
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I am not sure if this was said already, but I heard last night on the news stating that this "doctor" had his license suspended years ago. I don't think he had to be home for anything relating to him being a doctor. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Edit: late to the party as always!
Yes. But also reported that his license was re-instated in 2015 and appears to currently be some active in medicine.

But of course the character background of the victim is irrelevant to this discussion.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:20 AM
  #192  
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I think it is an attempt to poke holes into his story of needing to see patients the next day. I think both his excuse and the truthfullness of it are irrelevant to the situation.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:28 AM
  #193  
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gonna use that settlement to set up a nail salon i bet....
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:30 AM
  #194  
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Originally Posted by UlsterBoy13 View Post
gonna use that settlement to set up a nail salon i bet....
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:33 AM
  #195  
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Originally Posted by UlsterBoy13 View Post
gonna use that settlement to set up a nail salon i bet....
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:34 AM
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https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-...ent-1492003424

United CEO Blames ‘System Failure’ in Passenger Removal Incident

Oscar Munoz pledges thorough review of airline overbooking policies

April 12, 2017

United Airlines embattled Chief Executive Oscar Munoz said the carrier will never again use police to remove paid passengers on overfull flights, abandoning a policy that caused outrage this week after a man in Chicago was dragged screaming off a plane.

“We’re not going to put a law-enforcement official on to remove a booked, paid, seated passenger,” Mr. Munoz said in an interview Wednesday with ABC’s “Good Morning America.” “We can’t do that.”

Mr. Munoz said he was ashamed of United Continental Holdings Inc.’s handling of the incident and apologized to Dr. David Dao, the passenger forcibly removed on Sunday from United Express Flight 3411 from Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport to Louisville, Ky.

“This can never happen again on a United Airlines flight. That’s my promise,” Mr. Munoz said, after more than two days of criticism for his reserved response.

“My initial words fell short of truly expressing what we were feeling,” he said. “That’s something that I’ve learned from.”

United gate agents called police from Chicago’s aviation department on Sunday to remove four passengers whose seats were needed for crew members flying on to Louisville. Three passengers left without incident. Tension between Dr. Dao and the officers escalated into an altercation that ended in him being dragged off the flight, screaming and bloodied. Some passengers filmed the altercation, and footage spread rapidly online.

Chicago’s aviation department, whose officers removed Dr. Dao from the jet, didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment. The department has placed one officer involved in the incident on leave and is conducting its own review.

Attorneys representing Dr. Dao said Tuesday that he is recovering in a Chicago hospital. Mr. Munoz said he had left a message for Dr. Dao but had not yet reached him.

Mr. Munoz, who joined the nation’s No. 3 airline by traffic 18 months ago, said he plans a thorough review of United’s policies for incentivizing passengers to give up seats when flights are overbooked.

“The use of law enforcement aboard an aircraft has to be looked at very carefully,” he said. “They’re clearly there for a purpose of safety,” said the chastened executive. “But for other reasons, I think that’s a policy we have to relook at.”

He blamed a “system failure” for the incident, which has dented the carrier’s stock price and led to calls to boycott the airline. “We have not provided our front-line supervisors and managers...with the proper tools, policies and procedures that allow them to use their common sense,” Mr. Munoz said.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:35 AM
  #197  
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Agreed. His past and the issue on hand are not related.

We have things far worse happening everyday and this gets the most attention.... sigh...
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:37 AM
  #198  
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Originally Posted by UlsterBoy13 View Post
gonna use that settlement to set up a nail salon i bet....
His last name is Dao..... Daos don't open up nail salon. Tran and Ngyuen do
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:39 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by oonowindoo View Post
His last name is Dao..... Daos don't open up nail salon. Tran and Ngyuen do

He's Vietnamese too ya goof!
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:41 AM
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New spokesperson for United....
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