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Old 04-11-2017, 12:16 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by underdog View Post
I love how you're trying to make it sound like UAL was out to rob the guy.
a) he was still going to get to his destination - on the next available flight
b) he was going to be compensated for the inconvenience (for a delay of >2 hours entitled to 400% of the fare to a max of $1350)

Every airline is required by law to post its Contract of Carriage - their (and your) obligations and rights when
you purchase a ticket with them. You should read it before you get all excited about what you're entitled to.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...age.aspx#sec25

Sure, getting bumped sucks. And sure, I would bitch and moan to the Customer Service Agent (you know, the people who
are actually empowered to DO something about it - not the cabin crew!) to try to get the best possible compensation I could
guilt them into. But "going apeshit", especially onboard an aircraft is not going to result in any kind of a happy outcome. Good
luck with that.
Did they offer the max of $1350 before choosing someone at random and forcing them off the plane?
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA View Post
Did they offer the max of $1350 before choosing someone at random and forcing them off the plane?
The $1350 number is a liability cap established for ALL AIRLINES by DOT regulation 14 CFR 250.5.
The calculation is, if the delay is >2 hours the entitled compensation is 400% of the one-way fare to
the first stop./destination to a MAX of $1350.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/250.5

The selection of the passengers to be denied boarding appears random but is based on a number
of factors:
- price paid for their ticket (full fare? or discounted?)
- loyalty program standing (are you a Million Miles Gold Star flyer or a once a year traveller?)
etc etc
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:45 AM
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That doesn't answer my question. Did they offer the max of $1350 before choosing someone and forcing them off the plane?
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA View Post
That doesn't answer my question. Did they offer the max of $1350 before choosing someone and forcing them off the plane?
It doesn't work that way.

The required compensation is 400% of the one-way fare price (capped at MAX $1350)
So, one-way UAL flight fares from Chicago to Lousiville are approx. $145
An airline is obligated by federal regulation to offer 400% of the one-way fare: 4 X 145 = 580
UAL was obligated to offer $580. They offered $800.

So, no they did not offer $1350 and they did not offer $2000 and they did not offer $50000
They were required by law to offer $580 and they offered $800

Last edited by underdog; 04-11-2017 at 12:58 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:41 AM
  #45  
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There's also a difference between a $800 ticket voucher (what United was offering) and a $800 AmEx gift card (what Delta offered).

Unless you travel frequently, a $800 ticket voucher is worth $0 which might explain why there were no other takers.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:45 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by underdog View Post
I love how you're trying to make it sound like UAL was out to rob the guy.
a) he was still going to get to his destination - on the next available flight
b) he was going to be compensated for the inconvenience (for a delay of >2 hours entitled to 400% of the fare to a max of $1350)

Every airline is required by law to post its Contract of Carriage - their (and your) obligations and rights when
you purchase a ticket with them. You should read it before you get all excited about what you're entitled to.
https://www.united.com/web/en-US/con...age.aspx#sec25

Sure, getting bumped sucks. And sure, I would bitch and moan to the Customer Service Agent (you know, the people who
are actually empowered to DO something about it - not the cabin crew!) to try to get the best possible compensation I could
guilt them into. But "going apeshit", especially onboard an aircraft is not going to result in any kind of a happy outcome. Good
luck with that.
so, easy for you to type away isn't it? because it didn't happen to you I mean, c'mon... being dragged off but not before smashing your face on a armrest? Yeah okay... you would be okay with that, right?

and what makes you think I was implying anything about money or being "robbed"? This man obviously didn't give a flying fuck about $800 (in fact, NO ONE DID), you don't know... maybe he has plans for the next day, like patients to see... even if that was a lie... people have their reasons for turning it down

Last edited by is300eater; 04-11-2017 at 01:51 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 01:49 AM
  #47  
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I'm just not feeling the all-too-familiar "people with pitchforks freaking out over shocking video and piling on corporation" stance here and laying all the blame on United. From what we know so far, the police officers did not act according to United's protocols for said situation. That is what I am basing my statement on - that it was not United's fault. Is it a shitty situation that makes United look very bad - well sure it is. Could United have taken steps to mitigate and avoid the end result, well sure. But I think those things fall under the "hindsight is 20/20" column. The police officers should not have conducted themselves in the way they did.
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Old 04-11-2017, 02:45 AM
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Originally Posted by is300eater View Post
so, easy for you to type away isn't it? because it didn't happen to you I mean, c'mon... being dragged off but not before smashing your face on a armrest? Yeah okay... you would be okay with that, right?

and what makes you think I was implying anything about money or being "robbed"? This man obviously didn't give a flying fuck about $800 (in fact, NO ONE DID), you don't know... maybe he has plans for the next day, like patients to see... even if that was a lie... people have their reasons for turning it down
I would never be "dragged off" an airplane because I'm not a dumbass who causes a disturbance, shrieking like
a wounded hyena when I don't get my way.

You seem to be under the impression that an airline has to get a passenger's consent to deny them a seat. Not so.

The airline has the absolute RIGHT to deny you boarding. Period. The law requires that they provide you
compensation for the inconvenience of involuntarily being denied boarding according to a federally mandated
calculation.

So, here are your options:
1) You can accept the airline's offer of compensation for the inconvenience of a delay and voluntarily deplane.
2) You can ignore the airline's offer of compensation, roll the dice, and risk being involuntarily deplaned
and receive compensation for the inconvenience anyway.

Your choice, 1) or 2)? Either way, you're off the airplane but compensated.

Obviously in the interests of good customer relations the airline prefers to get your cooperation and
tries to incent you to cooperate, usually by offering more than the law requires them to. But in the
end, if they have 160 asses to fit into 159 seats, somebody is not getting on the plane. And it is the
airline's right to say who.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:30 AM
  #49  
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i have a lot of friends who fly for united... but i'm interested to hear your take on this...

then why do airlines consistently overbook flights? if they know they only have 159 seats and end up with 160 asses, they f'ed up... they do that because the risk they take for late connections/no shows offset the revenue risk of having to bump someone and provide compensation... AZuser also nailed it, " There's also a difference between a $800 ticket voucher (what United was offering) and a $800 AmEx gift card (what Delta offered). Unless you travel frequently, a $800 ticket voucher is worth $0 which might explain why there were no other takers. "" start offering gift cards and see how many people line up... it's sad what happened to Continental after United took over...

you said it in an earlier post... revenue passengers are always #1 priority... even if it was a crew member commuting to the destination, United has others on short call they can use... if this was the case, the scheduling dept didn't want to eat the costs of sending them home and having to short call another employee... it's cheaper to try and bribe (incent) a passenger to give up their seat... but the correct customer service thing to do is let the customers get to where they need to get and figure the crew scheduling out... it is dumb cause they are paying the person on short call anyway and even if the crew member was deadheading to work, they most likely would have rather stayed home anyway... that's only if that was this scenario...

it seems to only happen on our crappy domestic airlines... this never happens with Qantas/Virgin/Emirates

Last edited by KaMLuNg; 04-11-2017 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:37 AM
  #50  
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Overbooking is common because people miss flights for a kazillion reasons.

I would be surprised if the airlines you mentioned don't also regularly overbook.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:41 AM
  #51  
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oh i'm sure they overbook.. it's part of the industry to make money... honestly even at a crappy $160 flight per seat, a full flight barely breaks covers the fuel cost to fire up the engines... so i get it... they have to do it to keep the business running... i was just trying to say our domestic airliners always get so much bad press for being the worse in the world... it seems like these things never happen on other international carrier... then again usually on these international flights, i'm paying a lot more money and it is a much further ride...
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:47 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by KaMLuNg View Post
oh i'm sure they overbook.. it's part of the industry to make money... honestly even at a crappy $160 flight per seat, a full flight barely breaks covers the fuel cost to fire up the engines... so i get it... they have to do it to keep the business running... i was just trying to say our domestic airliners always get so much bad press for being the worse in the world... it seems like these things never happen on other international carrier... then again usually on these international flights, i'm paying a lot more money and it is a much further ride...
And many fewer passengers.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:56 AM
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First of all, I totally disagree with bumping paying passengers for crew members. Yeah, those crew members may be dead heading to work, but that's why all airlines have employees on "reserve": to fill in when an employee doesn't/can't make it to work.

Second, why in the world did they board the plane before resolving the overbooking issue?

Originally Posted by Whiskers View Post
I sometimes scream like the doctor did when the wifi doesn't work well.
That was you?? I thought it was that poodle in First Class
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:05 AM
  #54  
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Logistics!

It`s unfortunate what they did to that that guy on the Airline but you have to wonder how antiquated there system is.

In 2017, in the era of modern technology, a computer program can be run to reflect the need for extra seating reflecting how many seats are needed for the airlines own use.

The only problem is that they want to book every seat, you know, that`s how they make money.

If we are talking about compensation, 400% equals to approximately 4 tickets and with that math you could of had 4 seats empty in the first place.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicks2001tl View Post
Logistics!
it would be interesting to see what UPS could do with shipping passengers
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
it would be interesting to see what UPS could do with shipping passengers
Ask any UPS driver and they will tell you that there route is efficiently mapped out every day.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by svtmike View Post
And many fewer passengers.
in what sense? An Emirates and Qantas A380 flight can fit ~500, a 747 can go close to 400... but they usually only fly once a day...
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicks2001tl View Post
Ask any UPS driver and they will tell you that there route is efficiently mapped out every day.
no left turns???

bring in the commercial drones!!!
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by KaMLuNg View Post
in what sense? An Emirates and Qantas A380 flight can fit ~500, a 747 can go close to 400... but they usually only fly once a day...
There you go. Many fewer people fly International than Domestic on any given day. The opportunities to overbook are much higher on domestic flights and so the occurrences are much higher.
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Old 04-11-2017, 08:56 AM
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when you are asked to get off the plane, GET OFF. that ass whipping was earned by that guy....
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:01 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by srika View Post
I'm just not feeling the all-too-familiar "people with pitchforks freaking out over shocking video and piling on corporation" stance here and laying all the blame on United. From what we know so far, the police officers did not act according to United's protocols for said situation. That is what I am basing my statement on - that it was not United's fault. Is it a shitty situation that makes United look very bad - well sure it is. Could United have taken steps to mitigate and avoid the end result, well sure. But I think those things fall under the "hindsight is 20/20" column. The police officers should not have conducted themselves in the way they did.

Two wrongs don't make a right. that's not hindsight bias... Like many people here have said already, overbooking is common. Airlines do it all the time because more often than not, people will mis-connect or won't show up. Regardless of the 'amount' making business sense, they take a risk every day by overbooking. Now that they have confirmed passengers which are overbooked, they should have resorted to voluntary denied boarding aka upping the compensation before forcing people 'at random' to not fly.

The whole, "should have listened to avoid getting your face smashed into an armrest" argument is what I use during the BLM/cops with excessive force movement but you also have to look back at the bigger picture and see what had happened beforehand.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:04 AM
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big shocker. I am so surprised to hear this.

dude had issues, and this is why he caused a ruckus.

David Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled pastDavid Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled past

Morgan Watkins , @morganwatkins
26 Published 9:26 a.m. ET April 11, 2017 Updated 20 minutes ago

David Dao, the Elizabethtown doctor who was yanked off an overbooked United Airlines flight Sunday, has had a troubled history in Kentucky.

Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., was working as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown when he was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to documents filed with the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure last June. The documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005. He surrendered his medical license the next month.

The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by YeuEmMaiMai View Post
when you are asked to get off the plane, GET OFF. that ass whipping was earned by that guy....
In this case, it was a bit more excessive just to get a seat open for there employees.

People who have done far more didn`t get that treatment.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:06 AM
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So he had issues in the past and as such, deserved this? Interesting but not surprising take from you, shrek-a....
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:07 AM
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Officer that pulled the man was placed on administrative leave pending investigation.

Originally Posted by 1killercls View Post
Thanks Trump.
Make airports great again
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by srika View Post
big shocker. I am so surprised to hear this.

dude had issues, and this is why he caused a ruckus.

David Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled pastDavid Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled past

Morgan Watkins , @morganwatkins
26 Published 9:26 a.m. ET April 11, 2017 Updated 20 minutes ago

David Dao, the Elizabethtown doctor who was yanked off an overbooked United Airlines flight Sunday, has had a troubled history in Kentucky.

Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., was working as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown when he was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to documents filed with the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure last June. The documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005. He surrendered his medical license the next month.

The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions.
And this has what to do with his treatment?
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicks2001tl View Post
In this case, it was a bit more excessive just to get a seat open for there employees.

People who have done far more didn`t get that treatment.
if he got off the plane, there would have been no ass whipping.....
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:08 AM
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Post from a friend who has been a flight attendant for United for a couple decades. Before you jump to more conclusions though, I am not personally affiliated with United, nor am I invested in anything regarding them. I rarely ever fly them, in fact I hadn't used them since the 90's, until this past March when I took them on a flight to Vegas, just because the booking site went that way.

I am largely disappointed in so many people and their immediate sharing and judgement of the situation at United before knowing facts of the situation.

Please see below for some actual facts surrounding the incident, facts so many of you irresponsible perpetuators of falsities and shock value stories conveniently didn't take into consideration before bashing.

I recommend as a general rule to stop sharing and blindly believing these initial reports in any situation, be it political news or otherwise. Wait for the full story to come out, especially before bashing companies whose employees that work hard and sacrifice every single day so you can get where you need to go.

Shared from a friend:
Let me break this down for the non-airline folks on my friends list. First a crash course in our airline lingo and operational quirks. When operational integrity is threatened due to federal or contractual hour limits or weather etc...the airline...and I mean ANY airline tries to cover those positions whether they be pilots or flight attendants. They are deadheaded which means to ride as a passenger to get in place for a flight where they would be the working crew. They are classified as "must ride". If the airline didn't do this the flight would have to cancel, screwing up plans of 100 plus passengers.

Federal law states that any passenger must comply with crew member instructions.
Almost every airline out there over sells or comes into an oversell situation due to weather or late arriving passengers as well.

This has been industry standard for decades. When you have the hub and spoke system, flights feed into a large hub from smaller destination enabling a large aircraft at the hub to fill up. Think Kalamazoo, MI to Chicago and then onwards to Hong Kong. Now multiply that by hundreds of flights and passengers. Say one flight cancelled or is delayed. Instead of letting that seat on the Chicago to Hong Kong flight go empty, they basically sell that seat twice. There is a no-show factor for almost every flight. Since airlines are businesses they obviously need to make money. Airlines run a razor thin margin at times on certain routes. This enables them to make more money. Does it make sense...not to most people. But again...its industry standard. Here is a post from a friends page on the specifics. But I hope my break down helps.....

1. No one at United got mad.
2. They were not standby, they were a must ride. (Meaning that they had to get to that destination to operate a flight while maintaining FAA regulations due to weather impacting operations)
3. Whenever you purchase a ticket, you are agreeing to abide by the passenger agreements and CFRs.
4. He wasn't randomly chosen, the computer system used goes by who paid the cheapest ticket, whether or not luggage was checked, status, boarding priority, etc.
5. The flight wasn't originally oversold until the inbound crew encountered a missed connect due to weather impacting operations and legality issues which is why these 4 inflight personnels had to get onto this particular flight to avoid a cancellation of the morning flight as this particular flight from Chicago only flies once at 3pm.
6. He was asked numerous times to leave the aircraft by United officials, he leaves, changes his mind then decides to run past the gate agents back to the aircraft. At this point, he is classified as non-complaint and a security issue which is why law enforcement was called. This is post 911. That's a federal offense, you don't run onto an aircraft after being removed. Period. Point. Blank. Once the law gets involved, it is no longer United. That's Chicago O'hare Int'l Airport and Chicago PD. They told him numerous times to exit, nicely, and he didn't comply so there you have it.

Once again, everyone is stuck in their own ways that they can't see the bigger picture. I can guarantee that if the morning flight would have been cancelled due to no crew, everyone would still be enraged so it's like a damn if you do damn if you don't situation but I would rather remove this one pax, provide them with an $800 voucher (doubled of what he paid), a hotel, meal vouchers, and an upgraded seat on the next available flight (all which they offered) than having to accommodate 60 to 70 pax because we had to cancel a flight.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:09 AM
  #69  
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by srika View Post
big shocker. I am so surprised to hear this.

dude had issues, and this is why he caused a ruckus.

David Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled pastDavid Dao, passenger removed from United flight, a doctor with troubled past

Morgan Watkins , @morganwatkins
26 Published 9:26 a.m. ET April 11, 2017 Updated 20 minutes ago

David Dao, the Elizabethtown doctor who was yanked off an overbooked United Airlines flight Sunday, has had a troubled history in Kentucky.

Dao, who went to medical school in Vietnam in the 1970s before moving to the U.S., was working as a pulmonologist in Elizabethtown when he was arrested in 2003 and eventually convicted of drug-related offenses after an undercover investigation, according to documents filed with the Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure last June. The documents allege that he was involved in fraudulent prescriptions for controlled substances and was sexually involved with a patient who used to work for his practice and assisted police in building a case against him.

Dao was convicted of multiple felony counts of obtaining drugs by fraud or deceit in November 2004 and was placed on five years of supervised probation in January 2005. He surrendered his medical license the next month.

The Kentucky Board of Medical Licensure permitted Dao to resume practicing medicine in 2015 under certain conditions.
Here comes the smear campaign. I was telling my Asian buddy that this is your chance to get in on the ALM movement.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
So he had issues in the past and as such, deserved this? Interesting but not surprising take from you, shrek-a....
Originally Posted by Nicks2001tl View Post
And this has what to do with his treatment?
I'll explain: he was not so chemically balanced upstairs. This is why he caused a ruckus. Most all passengers would have got off the plane when asked by officials.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:11 AM
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And I agree, two wrongs don't make a right.

This is a developing story.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:12 AM
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^that's some good insight (the reply from your friend)
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:41 AM
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Forcibly removed


In a statement, the airline said four crew members needed to get to a flight departing from Louisville otherwise it would be canceled. Passengers on the Chicago-Louisville plane were asked to give up their seats voluntarily.
When no one volunteered, the airline was forced into an "involuntary de-boarding situation," airline spokesman Charlie Hobart told CNN. Four passengers were selected, including the man in the video. United denied accusations the man was chosen based on his ethnicity.The man refused, saying he was a doctor and needed to see patients. The airline said it then followed US Department of Transportation protocol in calling local law enforcement to forcibly remove the man from the plane after he refused to disembark.
The Chicago Department of Aviation said in a statement that the incident "was not in accordance with our standard operating procedure and the actions of the aviation security officer are obviously not condoned by the department."


He might have had to be somewhere or they could of announced an offer of compensation to everyone on board before just picking out one person.

They screwed up plain and simple.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicks2001tl View Post
He might have had to be somewhere or they could of announced an offer of compensation to everyone on board before just picking out one person.

They screwed up plain and simple.
They did, just not enough of an incentive for anyone to volunteer .

But the fact still remains that they screwed up nevertheless!
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by thoiboi View Post
They did, just not enough of an incentive for anyone to volunteer .

But the fact still remains that they screwed up nevertheless!
Hehe, if you offered me 800.0 i might of ignored my Hippocratic oath and just taken the cash and ran.

Me: You want me off this flight and give me 800.00 in flight vouchers? Throw in a hotel stay and I`m in.
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:58 AM
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Everyone has their price though.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:02 AM
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I read they offered $800 plus overnight accommodations.


Last edited by Doom878; 04-11-2017 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:06 AM
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Old 04-11-2017, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Doom878 View Post
I read they offered $800 plus overnight accommodations.
I believe that is true as well.

But there is nothing that says the passengers must accept that. In situations like this, typically they keep going. I've personally seen it gone up to $1500.
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