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Old 10-04-2017, 01:42 AM
  #201  
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Old 10-04-2017, 01:49 AM
  #202  
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So I just read that the Route 91 Harvest festival wasn't his original target, he tried to get a room or something overlooking the Life is Beautiful festival that happened 9/22-24

That festival is a muuuch bigger one too!
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Old 10-04-2017, 06:58 AM
  #203  
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Equating your fear of losing your guns to responding to mass murder with legislation is a very poor approach to this argument. Gun control legislation is a response to National Security, not fear of getting shot. The excuses still show a callously selfish stance.
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Old 10-04-2017, 07:42 AM
  #204  
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Ian. What really grinds your gears?
Asking for a friend.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:41 AM
  #205  
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National Security..
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:42 AM
  #206  
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Grenade launcher
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:41 AM
  #207  
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Conspiracy theory time.. rifle over leg.. sus...
I'm guessing some derp placed it there.. but still.

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Old 10-04-2017, 09:48 AM
  #208  
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Or he was standing with his foot under the rifle already when he shot himself.
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:53 AM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
Conspiracy theory time.. rifle over leg.. sus...
I'm guessing some derp placed it there.. but still.

Also appears to be a note left on one of the tables
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:56 AM
  #210  
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I tried to find a link to all the leaked pics yesterday, but could only find a couple here or there
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Old 10-04-2017, 09:57 AM
  #211  
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you're right.. didn't see the bigger pic

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Old 10-04-2017, 09:59 AM
  #212  
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Damn.. is that 3M green tape?! fancyyyyyyy
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:00 AM
  #213  
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Shit.. found a pic of his face after he ate a bullet..

NSFW

Spoiler
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:02 AM
  #214  
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looks like he snubbed himself with a smitty 642 38/357..
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:02 AM
  #215  
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Fuck that asshole.. cocksucker.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:04 AM
  #216  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
Fuck that asshole.. cocksucker.
I can't tell if you're angry, or coaching a pornstar
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:05 AM
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Clicked on that spoiler button....

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Old 10-04-2017, 10:05 AM
  #218  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
I can't tell if you're angry, or coaching a pornstar
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:06 AM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
I can't tell if you're angry, or coaching a pornstar
Get in line
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:06 AM
  #220  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
I can't tell if you're angry, or coaching a pornstar
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:08 AM
  #221  
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
Equating your fear of losing your guns to responding to mass murder with legislation is a very poor approach to this argument. Gun control legislation is a response to National Security, not fear of getting shot. The excuses still show a callously selfish stance.
^You are part of the problem, not the solution.

You have pro gun people here speaking very reasonably and you need to try to flaunt your moral high-holly-ness instead of engaging in actual discussion.

What SPECIFIC legislative measures do YOU propose that would prevent mass killings by someone like this?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:35 AM
  #223  
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So I've been reading multiple sources on this shooting all morning and I think I've resolved some big questions I had prior to getting all the known information in front of me.

My main questions were:

1) Why did it take 72 minutes from the first 911 reports to the time they got him, and
2) Why was there only 10-15 minutes of shooting.

The 72 minutes is being widely reported by the media but I have determined it is not accurate. The officers got him about an hour before, but did not announce it was clear until an hour later at 11:58.

The first 911 call was in by 10:08 pm. I am going to assume this is pretty close to when the shooting started.

By 10:21, officers outside notice the shooting has stopped. But what had happened was that officers and hotel security had isolated him to the 32nd floor by using guest tips and the smoke detectors that had gone off from the powder smoke. Since he had put cameras in the hallways, he could see them preparing and he must have stopped shooting at this point to not give up his position and also to prepare to engage the officers.

The officers at this point attempted to engage but he shot one of them through the door. So eventually SWAT arrived and breached the door. This raised my 3rd question of why they got to him so quickly but weren't able to stop him. After Columbine HS, the policy for police departments was to actively engage the shooter with patrol units. Prior to Columbine, they would set up a perimeter and wait for SWAT to engage.

But if you've ever stayed in a Vegas hotel, you'll know the doors are pretty beefy. Without any way to break down the door safely, there was nothing they could do except wait for SWAT. But at least their presence stopped him from continuing to shoot into the crowd.

They appeared to have breached the door at approximately 10:50 pm.

These are the sources I used:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ded/729034001/

Police took 72 minutes from first emergency call to reach Las Vegas shooter | Fox News

How police found the Las Vegas shooter so quickly
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:38 AM
  #224  
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
So I just read that the Route 91 Harvest festival wasn't his original target, he tried to get a room or something overlooking the Life is Beautiful festival that happened 9/22-24

That festival is a muuuch bigger one too!
How do they know that was his original target? Did they talk to him before they shot him or was it left on his note?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:38 AM
  #225  
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When did he decide to eat a bullet though...
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:41 AM
  #226  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
When did he decide to eat a bullet though...
No facts but based on the known information, he probably saw the breaching charge being placed and took his life at that point. Based on the transcript provided, I would say that was around 10:50 pm. But non-SWAT officers had already setup around his room by 10:20.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:42 AM
  #227  
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Why didn't they take the cameras out, did they not notice them until after the fact?
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:44 AM
  #228  
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I don't think they noticed it until after the fact.

Those first few officers who quickly got to his position saved lives by distracting him from continuing his shooting. He had stacks of mags ready to go as seen in the pictures and the videos from the ground showed people still huddled in huge masses.
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Old 10-04-2017, 10:47 AM
  #229  
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So many questions still.
LEOs and first responders definitely saved lives.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:03 AM
  #230  
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Don't you think he would have kept shooting til they blew the door in. Obviously he wanted to cause as much harm as possible. Why would a few officers in the hallway stop him from doing so?
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:04 AM
  #231  
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I'm sure his concern was offing himself before they got a chance to capture him
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:06 AM
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Do you think they would have kept him alive or shot? Not sure I'd want to run in a room with a nutcase with automatic weapons to slap some handcuffs on him. He would have went down shooting either way.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:07 AM
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The caliber of rounds could have penetrate the walls. He had video of where they were in the halls. Come on now, why wouldn't he just shoot thru the walls?
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:08 AM
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Thanks Wackjum, good info/analysis.

One thing I will add is that the initial patrol officer probably had a hotel security person with them in the hallway who could have opened the door with a keycard, but approaching the door was WAY too dangerous without a shield/LIII armor.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:09 AM
  #235  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
The caliber of rounds could have penetrate the walls. He had video of where they were in the halls. Come on now, why wouldn't he just shoot thru the walls?
he did hit a security officer in the leg through the door

like I said.... if your plan is to die, you don't want to take the chance of being critically injured and not being able to off yourself
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:12 AM
  #236  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
Don't you think he would have kept shooting til they blew the door in. Obviously he wanted to cause as much harm as possible. Why would a few officers in the hallway stop him from doing so?
Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
Do you think they would have kept him alive or shot? Not sure I'd want to run in a room with a nutcase with automatic weapons to slap some handcuffs on him. He would have went down shooting either way.
Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
The caliber of rounds could have penetrate the walls. He had video of where they were in the halls. Come on now, why wouldn't he just shoot thru the walls?
He was a smart guy. That much is obvious from his life and financial success. I think he wanted to engage the officers and you can't do that if you're shooting the crowd.

There's also a lot of incapacitating methods to take him down like a flashbang or gas. I think he knew once the door was down, his time was up and there was a high probability he could have been captured.

He was shooting 5.56. It won't penetrate walls reliably. And he could see the hallway but that doesn't mean he could see through walls. It is still very difficult to lineup shots based on watching a screen showing things from a different angle.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:13 AM
  #237  
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Originally Posted by stogie1020 View Post
Thanks Wackjum, good info/analysis.

One thing I will add is that the initial patrol officer probably had a hotel security person with them in the hallway who could have opened the door with a keycard, but approaching the door was WAY too dangerous without a shield/LIII armor.
They must have tried. I can't imagine they didn't. But when the hotel security guy was shot through the door that would have ended that idea.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:14 AM
  #238  
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Are you okay Breezy?
You're fielding some strange questions.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by wackjum View Post
They must have tried. I can't imagine they didn't. But when the hotel security guy was shot through the door that would have ended that idea.
Agreed, the doorway is always the most dangerous location.
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Old 10-04-2017, 11:22 AM
  #240  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
Why didn't they take the cameras out, did they not notice them until after the fact?
I'm guessing the camera's were small and hard to see. Not sure when they found them but apparently he shot a hotel security guard in the leg when they approached the room.
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