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Old 10-03-2017, 02:11 PM
  #161  
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Heck yes, we need better regulation, close loopholes.
It will have a positive effect somewhere.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:11 PM
  #162  
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It may not prevent another mass shooting or something similar, but somewhere it'll make a difference.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:14 PM
  #163  
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Personally, and I think most gun enthusiast will agree.
High cap mags (over 30 rds) and bumpfire stocks are shit.
Only purpose is some fun at the range.
What isn't helpful in the witchhunt to come is to criminalize innocent citizens.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:16 PM
  #164  
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What's the difference between having one gun and 40?

Is there some magic threshold where I should suddenly be worried about somebody?
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:16 PM
  #165  
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I hate the 30rd mags for my AR. Too big and bulky for range use. A nice 10rd mag is all you need really.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:17 PM
  #166  
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Iraq war veteran borrows a utility van to ferry dozens of victims to the hospital ? Orange County Register



By some stroke of serendipity, the unoccupied utility van was left with keys in the ignition — so it became a makeshift ambulance.

After climbing over fences to escape gunfire at the Las Vegas concert Sunday night, Taylor Winston, of San Diego, spotted the white truck and looked inside. “It was a utility vehicle, and I knew that sometimes keys are left behind for the next driver,” said Winston, 29, who was stationed at Camp Pendleton while serving with the Marines.

Dozens of badly injured people, carted away from the concert area by companions, lay nearby with wounds. Winston and a friend set to work.

“We started grabbing people and loading them in the truck,” Winston said. “Some were in critical condition. We took a full load to the hospital and then came back for more.”

Winston estimates that he ferried around 30 people to the hospital, where emergency workers waited to take over.

When he returned for a third round, Winston realized enough ambulances had shown up to assist victims.

Winston parked the van a few blocks away, meaning to locate its owner the next morning. By the time he returned, it had been towed.

“It now has blood all over it,” Winston said.

He might never know the fate of those he shuttled to safety. “I didn’t get any names,” Winston said. “I was trying to be as efficient as possible.”

As an Iraq war veteran, Winston is no stranger to life-and-death situations.

“I’m just happy I was able to help,” he said.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:19 PM
  #167  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I hate the 30rd mags for my AR. Too big and bulky for range use. A nice 10rd mag is all you need really.
I keep a couple of 30 rd mags full and ready for defense
But at the range, I usually only load 10 rds at a time.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:21 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
What's the difference between having one gun and 40?

Is there some magic threshold where I should suddenly be worried about somebody?
You can only shoot one at a time effectively.
So.. one.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:23 PM
  #169  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
Heck yes, we need better regulation, close loopholes.
It will have a positive effect somewhere.
Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
Personally, and I think most gun enthusiast will agree.
High cap mags (over 30 rds) and bumpfire stocks are shit.
Only purpose is some fun at the range.
What isn't helpful in the witchhunt to come is to criminalize innocent citizens.
Thank you and yes, I definitely agree.

Sometimes, some people get so obsessed with wanting to fix the world, which is honorable for sure. But there are literally millions of responsible gun owners in the states, there's no need to suddenly make them felons if they didn't do anything wrong.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:25 PM
  #170  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
You can only shoot one at a time effectively.
So.. one.
I dual wield in Halo all the time.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:27 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
I dual wield in Halo all the time.
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Old 10-03-2017, 02:36 PM
  #172  
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:13 PM
  #173  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
That's it.. the LVPD and authorities need to stop fucking with us.
I'm not saying this is a conspiracy but this is the 3rd video showing muzzle flash from the lower floors.
Like I said on Page 2....
Originally Posted by juniorbean View Post
Also keep in mind those casinos may have odd numbering systems for the floors. Between parking decks, lobbies, the casino itself, etc... the 32nd floor may only be the 10th floor of the actual hotel. It depends on how they number their floors...
Casinos started doing this years ago as a marketing ploy so people felt important with higher floor numbers.

So it's likely not a lie that the elevator said he was on the 32nd floor. Thing is... they may start numbering the hotel floors at 30 for all we know.

So it's likely not a big conspiracy theory, just the way the floors are set up...
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:25 PM
  #174  
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:27 PM
  #175  
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juniorbean, the shooter was on the corner of the building. The flashes came from the center on a much lower floor.


I believe we have properly obscured the definition of terrorism. If any act that causes terror is terrorism, then a serial killer is a terrorist and an armed bank robber is a terrorist too. Terrorism is using terror to advance a position. Doing something extremely violent with no motive is not terrorism. Even doing it to get money doesn't qualify.

ISIS uses terrorism to try to push Islamic beliefs.
Timothy McVey used terrorism to try to push back against the Federal Government's overreaching.
That Planned Parenthood shooter used terrorism to try to scare workers away from giving abortions.

Ted Bundy killed a lot of people because he was a sick fuck.
The Columbine shooters killed a lot of people they felt had wronged them.
Niether were terrorists.

Maybe this guy had an agenda to push, even something as low as wanting to impact country music success could qualify, but without that motivation, he isn't a terrorist.

Last edited by oo7spy; 10-03-2017 at 03:30 PM.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:32 PM
  #176  
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Originally Posted by brian2 View Post
you'd think having 40+ weapons might signal something
It signals he likes guns?

Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
I hate the 30rd mags for my AR. Too big and bulky for range use. A nice 10rd mag is all you need really.
Are you talking about 10 round mags for range use, or are you saying we should ban "hi-cap" mags?

Originally Posted by Costco View Post
Thank you and yes, I definitely agree.

Sometimes, some people get so obsessed with wanting to fix the world, which is honorable for sure. But there are literally millions of responsible gun owners in the states, there's no need to suddenly make them felons if they didn't do anything wrong.
I've posted this before, but I will repeat it because it remains true...

I have a lot of guns. For me, it is less about the shooting (although I am a pretty good shot!) and more about the history and being able to interact with history and my collection.

I think there are a few regulations that we could pass that I would in theory support. For example, the idea of requiring universal background checks and the requirement to pass a basic gun safety course before you can start owning guns. The problem is that while theoretically I would be in support of such measures, the reality is I cannot support them because I know it won't be the only regulations.

Inevitably, there will be more mass shootings. So when these regulations fail to stop that mass shooting, there will be a call for more regulations, and so on and so on. There's no trust on the pro-gun side that the anti-gun side will stop, so lobbyist organizations like the NRA have adopted the tactic of stopping any regulations. Frankly, I am for it. This is something that makes a lot of people mad because it sounds completely unreasonable but actually it is a completely logical defensive move.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:44 PM
  #177  
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Yeah JB, the windows blown out are the upper 3rd outward facing rooms.
But the flashes are lower 3rd at the core / center of the building.
If those windows were intact, then for sure there must be a logical explanation.
Some stupid party with strobe, turning it off periodically like.. shut up.. is that gunfire?? nah.. turn it back on.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:45 PM
  #178  
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:47 PM
  #179  
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Tactically, higher is better, but if it was lower, the trajectory would have been flatter and possibly been deadlier.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:54 PM
  #180  
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Originally Posted by wackjum View Post
Are you talking about 10 round mags for range use, or are you saying we should ban "hi-cap" mags?
10 round mags for range use and some hunting use. Easier mobility. For all I care you can have a 10000 round mag. In the right hands it shouldn't matter. But how do you determine who gets to buy one and who doesn't.
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:55 PM
  #181  
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So are those windows connected to one room?
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:58 PM
  #182  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
So are those windows connected to one room?
His suite seemed pretty big
Not clear if the flash bang took out a window or not though
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Old 10-03-2017, 03:59 PM
  #183  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
10 round mags for range use and some hunting use. Easier mobility. For all I care you can have a 10000 round mag. In the right hands it shouldn't matter. But how do you determine who gets to buy one and who doesn't.
I think 30rd mags are fine.. even 40..
But if you haven't tried a 60 or 100 rd mag.. shit is uber ridiculous.

So heavy..

You want to mag dump just to get some heft off.
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:05 PM
  #184  
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Originally Posted by stogie1020 View Post
Basing the denial (or a portion thereof) of a person's Constitutional right on a genetic predisposition to an illness makes me really uncomfortable...

However, it is pretty unlikely that a person's first psychotic episode will be the "big one", so someone should have had intervened earlier in his life if he showed symptoms.

The local PD in his town said they had NOT had any interactions with him.
Never said deny based on...but definitely can set off a flag, or require further evaluation before approval.
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:12 PM
  #185  
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
So are those windows connected to one room?
NBC was describing "adjoining rooms".

Also, let's not forget that this building is one giant mirror, so flashes you see in a different window may not be from inside that particular room. Concerts tend to have lights and strobes, and there may have been a lot of light reflecting at certain angles.
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:15 PM
  #186  
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^ had to be in room because several videos from different angles show same strobing light
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:15 PM
  #187  
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Also.. if it were external light reflection, it'd be more than one room reflecting the light
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:16 PM
  #188  
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Originally Posted by Majofo View Post
My coworker has over 100 guns.
Hasn't killed one person.
So..
Yet.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:55 PM
  #189  
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Originally Posted by wackjum View Post
Inevitably, there will be more mass shootings. So when these regulations fail to stop that mass shooting, there will be a call for more regulations, and so on and so on. There's no trust on the pro-gun side that the anti-gun side will stop, so lobbyist organizations like the NRA have adopted the tactic of stopping any regulations. Frankly, I am for it. This is something that makes a lot of people mad because it sounds completely unreasonable but actually it is a completely logical defensive move.
Making decisions out of fear is probably only second to malicious intent in the ranking of worst approaches to legislation. Your theory of excessive response could be applied to tax reform, welfare reform, healthcare reform, or anything really. It's an appeal to extremes that doesn't really apply in the reality of our Democratic Republic, and it seems your using it is based in selfishness.
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:27 PM
  #190  
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Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
Making decisions out of fear is probably only second to malicious intent in the ranking of worst approaches to legislation. Your theory of excessive response could be applied to tax reform, welfare reform, healthcare reform, or anything really. It's an appeal to extremes that doesn't really apply in the reality of our Democratic Republic, and it seems your using it is based in selfishness.
The legislation against guns are made completely out of fear.

If you know anything about the 1994-2004 "assault weapons ban," you would realize it was a knee-jerk legislation in search of a problem. My position on gun control is a defense from ridiculous legislation such as these.
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Old 10-03-2017, 09:49 PM
  #191  
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Originally Posted by wackjum View Post
I've posted this before, but I will repeat it because it remains true...

I have a lot of guns. For me, it is less about the shooting (although I am a pretty good shot!) and more about the history and being able to interact with history and my collection.

I think there are a few regulations that we could pass that I would in theory support. For example, the idea of requiring universal background checks and the requirement to pass a basic gun safety course before you can start owning guns. The problem is that while theoretically I would be in support of such measures, the reality is I cannot support them because I know it won't be the only regulations.

Inevitably, there will be more mass shootings. So when these regulations fail to stop that mass shooting, there will be a call for more regulations, and so on and so on. There's no trust on the pro-gun side that the anti-gun side will stop, so lobbyist organizations like the NRA have adopted the tactic of stopping any regulations. Frankly, I am for it. This is something that makes a lot of people mad because it sounds completely unreasonable but actually it is a completely logical defensive move.
I agree on all points. I have always been a proponent of universal background checks as well as a gun safety course or test.

From the looks of it, the bump stock looks fairly simple to install and it's probably not very expensive. Forbidding those and similar devices would be a good start. The problem is, is that where the laws end or is that just the tip of the iceberg?

Originally Posted by oo7spy View Post
Making decisions out of fear is probably only second to malicious intent in the ranking of worst approaches to legislation. Your theory of excessive response could be applied to tax reform, welfare reform, healthcare reform, or anything really. It's an appeal to extremes that doesn't really apply in the reality of our Democratic Republic, and it seems your using it is based in selfishness.
I don't think that was his implication. We could even argue that any imminent gun control legislation is a decision based on fear edit: yeah, he said the same thing.

It's not the first set of gun control laws to ever come around. Gun owners have seen plenty of idiotic so-called "common sense" reforms that really don't do anything but make people think something is getting accomplished. Combine previous nonsensical bills with career politicians who make it quickly apparent that they have no idea what they're talking about, and you have very shrewd opposition to deal with.

It sounds like a classic slippery slope, but it's really how things turn out. Legislators realize there's no way guns are going to be eliminated outright, so they take the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach. Make it inconvenient or expensive to own and operate a gun and the guns will go away.

A topic/thread like this was bound to end up in R&P
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:04 PM
  #192  
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Originally Posted by wackjum View Post
I have a lot of guns. For me, it is less about the shooting (although I am a pretty good shot!) and more about the history and being able to interact with history and my collection.

I think there are a few regulations that we could pass that I would in theory support. For example, the idea of requiring universal background checks and the requirement to pass a basic gun safety course before you can start owning guns. The problem is that while theoretically I would be in support of such measures, the reality is I cannot support them because I know it won't be the only regulations.
Question: Would a universal background check and a gun safety course requirement diminish the ability (or rather the RIGHT) of the vast majority of law abiding citizens from owning for self defense and enjoying the sport of gun ownership?

Also, where are you getting these pre-cog future prediction machines? Or is it the NRA/gun-lobby fear mongering.

Look I also think regulations cannot stop these lone-wolf attacks...especially this guy that had ZERO indicators of risk. The more important thing is the mass amounts of people murdered by gangs and thugs and used in passion crimes AND, even more tragically, used in suicides.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:09 PM
  #193  
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BTW we do have a dedicated gun control discussion thread.

The guns are evil, ban them all thread
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
It sounds like a classic slippery slope, but it's really how things turn out. Legislators realize there's no way guns are going to be eliminated outright, so they take the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach. Make it inconvenient or expensive to own and operate a gun and the guns will go away.
The problem I see here is that the pro-gun side automatically assumes the end goal for pro gun control people is to eventually elimiante ALL guns. This is where the fear comes from.

The gun control side also operates on fear...you're right. Fear of more mass murderers and mass killings. While I do also agree with you that some of the pro gun control solutions are useless, why not have the NRA and pro gun rights people/groups work hand in hand with the gun control guys to help educate them on property safety and what are sensible legislations?

If there are none with respect to specific firearm regulations (after extensive studies), then what other ways can we as a society do psychologically/socially to reduce these attacks?

The fact that NRA blindly blocks any scientific study into guns and seems far removed from the olden days where they were more about gun safety and now it's just a anti gun control political group...is a bit worrisome.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:13 PM
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So apparently this fucker set up cameras outside his hotel room and on a service cart to look out for him.

Had 19 suitcases with him. Geez

Last edited by Mizouse; 10-03-2017 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:16 PM
  #196  
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Originally Posted by Mizouse View Post
So apparently this fucker set up cameras outside his hotel room and on a service cart to look out for him.
Yeah read that...the dude had a plan.

As morbid as it sounds, he may even have done this because he was quite simply....bored. Look at his life. He was accomplished, had a good life, has money, had his share of women, has a nice home, retired, has lot of time. And gambles with all his money......so what else can he do that will inject some incredible adrenaline into his body before he kicks the bucket on himself?.......scary to think......

19 suit cases? How the fuck does he even bring all that? I know airlines have limits on how many luggage you can check...did he drive a big cargo van to vegas or something.....
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:53 PM
  #197  
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Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
19 suit cases? How the fuck does he even bring all that? I know airlines have limits on how many luggage you can check...did he drive a big cargo van to vegas or something.....
The guy lived 80 miles northeast of Vegas in Mesquite.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by BreezyTL View Post
The guy lived 80 miles northeast of Vegas in Mesquite.
Ah good point.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:29 AM
  #199  
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Originally Posted by Costco View Post
I agree on all points. I have always been a proponent of universal background checks as well as a gun safety course or test.

From the looks of it, the bump stock looks fairly simple to install and it's probably not very expensive. Forbidding those and similar devices would be a good start. The problem is, is that where the laws end or is that just the tip of the iceberg?

I don't think that was his implication. We could even argue that any imminent gun control legislation is a decision based on fear edit: yeah, he said the same thing.

It's not the first set of gun control laws to ever come around. Gun owners have seen plenty of idiotic so-called "common sense" reforms that really don't do anything but make people think something is getting accomplished. Combine previous nonsensical bills with career politicians who make it quickly apparent that they have no idea what they're talking about, and you have very shrewd opposition to deal with.

It sounds like a classic slippery slope, but it's really how things turn out. Legislators realize there's no way guns are going to be eliminated outright, so they take the 'death by a thousand cuts' approach. Make it inconvenient or expensive to own and operate a gun and the guns will go away.

A topic/thread like this was bound to end up in R&P
This is my viewpoint exactly.

Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
Question: Would a universal background check and a gun safety course requirement diminish the ability (or rather the RIGHT) of the vast majority of law abiding citizens from owning for self defense and enjoying the sport of gun ownership?
No. I think they are a good idea.

Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
Also, where are you getting these pre-cog future prediction machines? Or is it the NRA/gun-lobby fear mongering.
First of all, I am not a member of the NRA anymore. I got tired of their constant fear mongering, calls to action, and push for money. But I understand their tactic and in the face of what history has shown, and what the anti-gun crowd is pushing for, I think it is a reasonable tactic to adopt.

Right now my Facebook feed is full of people calling for a gun ban. So are late night TV hosts and CNN special guests columnists.

President Obama had his "common sense" gun legislations he always touted. For example, he wanted to ban people who were on the "no-fly list" from being able to buy guns. On the face of it, this seems like a very obvious thing and it would boggle the reasonable mind why anybody would oppose this. But if you take a deeper look, there are serious problems. First of all, the government is completely hush on how anybody gets on the no-fly list. For classified security reasons, they will not release the set of criteria or sources they use to compile this list. Secondly, the no-fly list had TONS of errors. I used to work at the airport from 2004 to 2005 so I saw firsthand how many errors it had. We'd have to deny boarding to these people who for all intents and purposes seemed like normal people that maybe had a common name or shared initials and a date of birth. There's no clear procedures on how to get off the no-fly list either.

The second big "common sense" gun legislation was smart gun technology which would use electronic mechanisms to identify the wielder of the gun and unlock for use. Again, another idea that sounds great to the uninitiated. But what electronic devices are 100% reliable under every conceivable situation? My laptop thumbprint unlocker barely worked so I ended up disabling it. A gun could conceivably be needed in a life or death situation and anything less than 100% reliability would be unacceptable.

Third was Obama's attempt to ban the practice of buying NFA guns through a corporation. The whole reason why people had to do the corporation thing in the first place is that local law enforcement officials would routinely deny the straight up purchase of NFA guns by individuals, so doing a corporation was the only way to get approval. Targeting NFA items for regulation is foolish since they make up such a tiny percent of gun crimes, if any (with the possible exception of Paddock, to date no known crime has ever been committed by a registered NFA machine gun). But it sounds good to go after machine guns, short barreled shotguns, and silencers.

These and other legislative attempts under the guise of "common sense" makes me certain there will be a continual erosion of gun rights. It is condescending when they call it common sense because as you can see, anything more than a casual look destroys the integrity of these measures.

Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
Look I also think regulations cannot stop these lone-wolf attacks...especially this guy that had ZERO indicators of risk. The more important thing is the mass amounts of people murdered by gangs and thugs and used in passion crimes AND, even more tragically, used in suicides.
Living in America, we're just going to have to accept that there are a lot of guns out there (400 million+). I do not live in fear of dying from a spree shooter. Statistically it is still nowhere near a major cause of death in America. Just like how people in CA have accepted there will be earthquakes and FL will have hurricanes. The difference is that gun violence seems preventable but the reality is that there will always be gun violence in America.

Here are two articles that are genuinely worth the read:

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features.../?ex_cid=538fb

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.ad3a4785c33a (this is a more concise piece written by one of the the authors of the previous piece and gives some background on herself)

Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
The problem I see here is that the pro-gun side automatically assumes the end goal for pro gun control people is to eventually elimiante ALL guns. This is where the fear comes from.

The gun control side also operates on fear...you're right. Fear of more mass murderers and mass killings. While I do also agree with you that some of the pro gun control solutions are useless, why not have the NRA and pro gun rights people/groups work hand in hand with the gun control guys to help educate them on property safety and what are sensible legislations?
I don't think it is possible to compromise because it has become so emotional. By labeling something "common sense" the anti side has already implied that disagreement means you lack basic sense or are irrational.

Originally Posted by nist7 View Post
If there are none with respect to specific firearm regulations (after extensive studies), then what other ways can we as a society do psychologically/socially to reduce these attacks?

The fact that NRA blindly blocks any scientific study into guns and seems far removed from the olden days where they were more about gun safety and now it's just a anti gun control political group...is a bit worrisome.
I've discussed the NRA's M.O. They are doing what they deem is a political necessity because once the statistics are out, it could become a rallying point for legislation.

I personally think a detailed study will show no correlation between gun control and a reduction in violence. It is funny because when places like Chicago or Washington DC (places with very strict gun control measures in place, yet with very high levels of gun violence) contemplate allowing the legal possession of firearms, they talk about how the streets will run with blood. Yet cities in the South like Houston etc seem to be existing rather well with concealed carry and private gun ownership? But again, the debate has become so emotionally laden that there is no trust on either side.
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Old 10-04-2017, 02:33 AM
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The journalists already trying to scare the general public pushing images like this. Where the fuck is Joe Blow going to pick up a grenade launcher like it's just sitting on a shelf? AFAIK, a 37mm attachment takes money & several months with a thorough background check, all to mainly shoot anything nonlethal like flares.
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