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Old 12-19-2007, 10:19 AM   #41
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Ive found the same thing out. The 26 has a very tight grouping even at longer distances. The only problem I had with the gun was the previous owner did a 1/2 ass job on the night sight install and the front sight popped off at the range. I still need to order a new one.
bummer on that sight... they are not cheap...
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:19 PM   #42
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Excellant choice, now get yourself one of these.
http://www.lasermax.com/product.php?id=1
I have one from when they were first released , and still love it. The intimidation factor is powerful also. Nothing like a nice red dot on someone to let them know they are screwed.

Laser FTL...

Never been a fan of them, unless you are a sniper and it's infra-red. They broadcast your position, take longer to visually acquire than a proper sight picture, and if more than one person has them, who's dot is who's?

Just my Some people love them and some people hate them....
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:56 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by A SiQ TL
Excellant choice, now get yourself one of these.
http://www.lasermax.com/product.php?id=1
I have one from when they were first released , and still love it. The intimidation factor is powerful also. Nothing like a nice red dot on someone to let them know they are screwed.
i feel it's a gimmick. it doesn't replace proper training and shooting techniques. using a laser also makes the shooter focus on the dot and not the sights, target or surrounding area. for the cost of the laser, one could take a defensive pistol course.

an attacker will be focused on you or another victim and will not be checking himself for a dot. it may work in hollywood (along with the shotgun racking thing), but not in real life. if an attacker is going after an armed person, he won't be dissuaded by a dot.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:02 PM   #44
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also, a laser or any other peice of equipment won't make a person a better shooter. the weapon is only as good as the person using it. in most cases, the gun is more accurate than the shooter and always more accurate than an untrained person. also, the dot is going to bobble and move all over the place when you're in a stressful sitation. the time it takes for you to get the dot to settle and take the shot, it could be game over for you. remember this, you're only half as good as you normally are in a stressful situation.
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:08 PM   #45
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also, a laser or any other peice of equipment won't make a person a better shooter. the weapon is only as good as the person using it. in most cases, the gun is more accurate than the shooter and always more accurate than an untrained person. also, the dot is going to bobble and move all over the place when you're in a stressful sitation. the time it takes for you to get the dot to settle and take the shot, it could be game over for you. remember this, you're only half as good as you normally are in a stressful situation.

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Old 12-19-2007, 07:30 PM   #46
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Firstly, no it's not 5 years. I'll be done with jails after 3. Secondly, I have good judgement. And it's not the only thing the academy won't teach me. There's many things they won't teach me that I know I'll have to learn elsewhere or through experience. A good judgment call is based on what you know and how you know it. I wouldn't want to see some cholo or blood or aryan brotherhood member walking around with a weapon. Why? Because they are a threat to the public. How do I know? Because they've proven their ignorance and disregard for public safety over and over. There's evidence. So what do you define as a well trained, judgment oriented guy? And how do you distinguish? And why is he less of a threat then the other guys I mentioned? For all you know, walking down the street, an average Joe brandishing a gun could be intent on killing as many people as he can before he's killed. How do you know he's a well trained, judgment oriented person? Is he going to tell you? Is he going to let you see his gun, tell you about his training, his thoughts, his goals? It's not that simple. And I, an 18 year old, know that. This world is full of people. Good people. Bad people. Unfortunately, the bad outweigh the good. And even with a CCW there's a risk that even a seemingly responsible person could become a psychological mess and run amok. I know a lot more than you would expect. I understand things better than most people. And Law Enforcement isn't just a job to me. It's my dream.
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:50 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
Firstly, no it's not 5 years. I'll be done with jails after 3. Secondly, I have good judgement. And it's not the only thing the academy won't teach me. There's many things they won't teach me that I know I'll have to learn elsewhere or through experience. A good judgment call is based on what you know and how you know it. I wouldn't want to see some cholo or blood or aryan brotherhood member walking around with a weapon. Why? Because they are a threat to the public. How do I know? Because they've proven their ignorance and disregard for public safety over and over. There's evidence. So what do you define as a well trained, judgment oriented guy? And how do you distinguish? And why is he less of a threat then the other guys I mentioned? For all you know, walking down the street, an average Joe brandishing a gun could be intent on killing as many people as he can before he's killed. How do you know he's a well trained, judgment oriented person? Is he going to tell you? Is he going to let you see his gun, tell you about his training, his thoughts, his goals? It's not that simple. And I, an 18 year old, know that. This world is full of people. Good people. Bad people. Unfortunately, the bad outweigh the good. And even with a CCW there's a risk that even a seemingly responsible person could become a psychological mess and run amok. I know a lot more than you would expect. I understand things better than most people. And Law Enforcement isn't just a job to me. It's my dream.
Are you the type who says guns kill people?

There is a big difference between someone who is brandishing versus one who accidently bends over and you see his/her gun.

CCW are exactly that: CONCEALED. In no way, shape or form should a concealed weapon holder expose his weapon. The saying goes, "Dress around your gun." Couldn't agree more. I don't dress in cookie-cutter clothes (yes, I do wear them sometimes) and carry my weapon, no... I dress loosely, indiscreet.

A gangsta' is not going to be wearing a $100 holster, or carrying 2 extra mags.

CCW holders, in California, at least must have good moral character, no felonies, no large amounts of misdemeanors, and never been dishonorably discharged from the military. Not to mention, the Sheriff approves all CCW applications. CCW holders are very responsible persons who are "more aware" and less likely to be put in a situation in which escalation is the only journey.

Hmmm... not to mention. The latest string of shootings in the church were stopped by who? A CCW holder, a WOMAN at that.
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Old 12-19-2007, 07:55 PM   #48
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I agree with you though... someone who is "brandishing" a gun is the one you should be worried about. The fellow or lady is carrying large amounts of cash for work, frequents their gun range/club etc, etc should rightfully have a CCW.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:00 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
And even with a CCW there's a risk that even a seemingly responsible person could become a psychological mess and run amok. I know a lot more than you would expect. I understand things better than most people. And Law Enforcement isn't just a job to me. It's my dream.
And what stops a cop from doing so? (I point out the off-duty officer who went on a rampage here in OC and killed 3 cops, turned his neighborhood into North Hollywood, before killing himself.) What stops a PROFESSIONALLY trained law enforcement officer, military personnel, etc from "snapping?" Can YOU predict that?

You may know more than anyone would suspect. But knowledge does not replace experience.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:09 PM   #50
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No. I love guns. I just don't like seeing people with problems with them. I major in psychology; I know people. At any point in time any person can snap. Ok, let's say there are very responsible and aware people with CCWs or just carrying guns. What says they don't lose their job, find out their wife is cheating, then lose their mind when they find out and happen to be in a restaurant and go around shooting people? It's illogical to think things are certain. Nothing is certain. And yes, I agree, there are some people who should carry guns. Like you said, those that carry large amounts of money and such. And that lady that stopped the shooting did well. But like I'm saying, it's not a certainty that a person WON'T use their weapon in the wrong way. A CCW holder is at least interviewed and investigated, it's somewhat of a smaller risk. But those who carry weapons without it could potentially be a killer. Again, how can you distinguish who's good and who's not? Will they tell you?
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:10 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill
And what stops a cop from doing so? (I point out the off-duty officer who went on a rampage here in OC and killed 3 cops, turned his neighborhood into North Hollywood, before killing himself.) What stops a PROFESSIONALLY trained law enforcement officer, military personnel, etc from "snapping?" Can YOU predict that?

You may know more than anyone would suspect. But knowledge does not replace experience.


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Old 12-19-2007, 08:14 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill
And what stops a cop from doing so? (I point out the off-duty officer who went on a rampage here in OC and killed 3 cops, turned his neighborhood into North Hollywood, before killing himself.) What stops a PROFESSIONALLY trained law enforcement officer, military personnel, etc from "snapping?" Can YOU predict that?

You may know more than anyone would suspect. But knowledge does not replace experience.
Nor does experience replace reality. You don't know a cop wouldn't do that. You don't know anything. Because like I said, nothing is certain(I reference you to the 5 minute theory). But it's less probable. It's less likely. And it's less heard of.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:31 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
Nor does experience replace reality. You don't know a cop wouldn't do that. You don't know anything. Because like I said, nothing is certain(I reference you to the 5 minute theory). But it's less probable. It's less likely. And it's less heard of.
you dont know anything.

but he does

Example 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
I major in psychology; I know people.

your 18? so you took what psych 101 and maybe Soc101 and you know people

Example 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
I know a lot more than you would expect. I understand things better than most people..



god, remind never to go to LA when your a cop,
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:34 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
No. I love guns. I just don't like seeing people with problems with them. I major in psychology; I know people. At any point in time any person can snap. Ok, let's say there are very responsible and aware people with CCWs or just carrying guns. What says they don't lose their job, find out their wife is cheating, then lose their mind when they find out and happen to be in a restaurant and go around shooting people? It's illogical to think things are certain. Nothing is certain. And yes, I agree, there are some people who should carry guns. Like you said, those that carry large amounts of money and such. And that lady that stopped the shooting did well. But like I'm saying, it's not a certainty that a person WON'T use their weapon in the wrong way. A CCW holder is at least interviewed and investigated, it's somewhat of a smaller risk. But those who carry weapons without it could potentially be a killer. Again, how can you distinguish who's good and who's not? Will they tell you?
You KNOW people because you major in psychology? I worked in a psychiatric facility for 3+ years. I am a licensed and certified professional in my field by a national agency AND California's board for 5+ years. Don't preach to me about "reading" people. I can pretty much judge a schizo, schizoid, bipolar, borderline, NOS, acute and major fill-in-the-blank, etc. from the moment I pretty much lay eyes on them. Can you? Do you have that kind of experience? For an entire year I helped (logged in over 2000+ interview hours) in mental health evaluations for police, military special operators, federal agencies, and civilian high-risk professionals. You can only weed through so much. But there is limit to what ANYONE can handle.

One who wants to carry a weapon concealed (for protection or hostile intent), albeit not following the law, is going to. Regardless if they are a criminal, outstanding citizen, etc.

You're digging deep into the scientific versus legal aspects of carrying a weapon.

The reality is, there is a certain risk involved in carrying. Weapons don't kill people, bullets do; and bullets don't fire from a gun unless a person makes a logical and physical act of pulling the trigger. The reality is that people have their psychological breaking points. I myself have seen this in person. A well trained, morally upright, and emotionally stable person can break down at the sight or hearing of death, loss, or environmental change. That chance of error is small but possible. It is the LAWS responsibility to weed out those chances and ALLOW personal protection to those deemed legally just.

Last edited by NiteQwill; 12-19-2007 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:41 PM   #55
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Old 12-19-2007, 08:55 PM   #56
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:04 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by quinto1025
you dont know anything.

but he does

Example 1



your 18? so you took what psych 101 and maybe Soc101 and you know people

Example 2





god, remind never to go to LA when your a cop,
Actually, I graduated 2 years early from high school and I'm in my third year :-) You were saying? I know your little mind can't get around the stuff I'm saying so I'm just gonna ignore your ignorant remarks. haha and yeah, stay away from LA, we have enough idiots here.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:13 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by CL Type Slim
^^




Again, the ignorance in this thread is sky high. Pure logic is being ignored.

"You KNOW people because you major in psychology? I worked in a psychiatric facility for 3+ years. I am a licensed and certified professional in my field by a national agency AND California's board for 5+ years. Don't preach to me about "reading" people. I can pretty much judge a schizo, schizoid, bipolar, borderline, NOS, acute and major fill-in-the-blank, etc. from the moment I pretty much lay eyes on them. Can you? Do you have that kind of experience? For an entire year I helped (logged in over 2000+ interview hours) in mental health evaluations for police, military special operators, federal agencies, and civilian high-risk professionals. You can only weed through so much. But there is limit to what ANYONE can handle.

One who wants to carry a weapon concealed (for protection or hostile intent), albeit not following the law, is going to. Regardless if they are a criminal, outstanding citizen, etc.

You're digging deep into the scientific versus legal aspects of carrying a weapon.

The reality is, there is a certain risk involved in carrying. Weapons don't kill people, bullets do; and bullets don't fire from a gun unless a person makes a logical and physical act of pulling the trigger. The reality is that people have their psychological breaking points. I myself have seen this in person. A well trained, morally upright, and emotionally stable person can break down at the sight or hearing of death, loss, or environmental change. That chance of error is small but possible. It is the LAWS responsibility to weed out those chances and ALLOW personal protection to those deemed legally just."

I don't know how many things are wrong with what you stated. You basically restated what I said with different wording. And I'm not "preaching" anything. But when weak-sense thinkers feel their beliefs are threatened they tend to become offended and respond in a hostile way. Congratulations on your experience and whatnot. You don't seem to have had any benefit from it though. This is sad. Like I said, I think I'll just let you guys think what you want. Shadows on the wall. It doesn't seem to be possible to have a logical conversation here.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:14 PM   #59
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Actually, I graduated 2 years early from high school and I'm in my third year :-) You were saying? I know your little mind can't get around the stuff I'm saying so I'm just gonna ignore your ignorant remarks. haha and yeah, stay away from LA, we have enough idiots here.
What's your point? That at 18, a super wiz kid, you can separate judgement in a situation when lives are in danger? School and education have nothing to do with carrying a deadly weapon. I met some of the most unintelligent people in the Army and Marines but they acquired the ability to sustain life and fortitude in a gun battle, my intelligence tells me that I would in no way question their ability to protect my life or their own in any such matter.

Professionalism is not built on the lame remark you made, btw. The character of such comments is demeaning not to the target but to you as the poster.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:17 PM   #60
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I don't know how many things are wrong with what you stated. You basically restated what I said with different wording. And I'm not "preaching" anything. But when weak-sense thinkers feel their beliefs are threatened they tend to become offended and respond in a hostile way. Congratulations on your experience and whatnot. You don't seem to have had any benefit from it though. This is sad. Like I said, I think I'll just let you guys think what you want. Shadows on the wall. It doesn't seem to be possible to have a logical conversation here.
Let me restate:

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
No. I love guns. I just don't like seeing people with problems with them. I major in psychology; I know people. At any point in time any person can snap. Ok, let's say there are very responsible and aware people with CCWs or just carrying guns. What says they don't lose their job, find out their wife is cheating, then lose their mind when they find out and happen to be in a restaurant and go around shooting people? It's illogical to think things are certain. Nothing is certain. And yes, I agree, there are some people who should carry guns. Like you said, those that carry large amounts of money and such. And that lady that stopped the shooting did well. But like I'm saying, it's not a certainty that a person WON'T use their weapon in the wrong way. A CCW holder is at least interviewed and investigated, it's somewhat of a smaller risk. But those who carry weapons without it could potentially be a killer. Again, how can you distinguish who's good and who's not? Will they tell you?
And who is going to stop the killers? You?
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:19 PM   #61
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What's your point? That at 18, a super wiz kid, you can separate judgement in a situation when lives are in danger? School and education have nothing to do with carrying a deadly weapon. I met some of the most unintelligent people in the Army and Marines but they acquired the ability to sustain life and fortitude in a gun battle, my intelligence tells me that I would in no way question their ability to protect my life or their own in any such matter.

Professionalism is not built on the lame remark you made, btw. The character of such comments is demeaning not to the target but to you as the poster.
I don't know where this comment even came from. Irrelevant.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:20 PM   #62
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Let me restate:



And who is going to stop the killers? You?
I'll stop the ones I can. Period. What more is there to do?
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:22 PM   #63
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But when weak-sense thinkers feel their beliefs are threatened they tend to become offended and respond in a hostile way.
I never stated, "don't come here with a weapon in LA or I'll bust you." Did you even ask if I was a CCW holder? I merely defended the fact there there are persons who can legally carry concealed. I don't care about the gangbangers and the ones brandishing weapons, PLEASE arrest those folks.

And I never stated, "I know people... so there!"

Please...
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:26 PM   #64
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I don't know where this comment even came from. Irrelevant.
My comment was pointing out that fact that intelligence does not = knowledge based on experience (or lack thereof). Obviously, you lack the latter of that statement. And at 18, you seem to claim a lot of "experience."
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:26 PM   #65
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:29 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill
I never stated, "don't come here with a weapon in LA or I'll bust you." Did you even ask if I was a CCW holder? I merely defended the fact there there are persons who can legally carry concealed. I don't care about the gangbangers and the ones brandishing weapons, PLEASE arrest those folks.

And I never stated, "I know people... so there!"

Please...
Wanna show me at which point I said I'd bust someone? :-) And I did mention CCW permits in an asking way. As I said, I agree with CCWs so why would you need to defend them? "I know people...so there!"? OK.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:32 PM   #67
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My comment was pointing out that fact that intelligence does not = knowledge based on experience (or lack thereof). Obviously, you lack the latter of that statement. And at 18, you seem to claim a lot of "experience."
I claimed experience? haha I want to see that.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:32 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
Actually, I graduated 2 years early from high school and I'm in my third year :-) You were saying? I know your little mind can't get around the stuff I'm saying so I'm just gonna ignore your ignorant remarks. haha and yeah, stay away from LA, we have enough idiots here.


damn you 18yr olds who know everything, DAMN YOU!!!!


might i suggest a before this gets out of hand, and also since the OP's question was answer and already decide and purchased his new weapon.



this was a good thread until grandeinter came in with his damn "dont come here, b/c im going to b a super cop." if he even gets hired.



oh and thought you had to be 19.5 to join??
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:33 PM   #69
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You never agreed with CCW. You stated that mental incapacity to have a weapon should prevent people from doing so because they may "snap."

Post:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=46
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...3&postcount=50

edit: wrong link

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Old 12-19-2007, 09:34 PM   #70
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I claimed experience? haha I want to see that.
"I'm a psychology major."
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:35 PM   #71
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damn you 18yr olds who know everything, DAMN YOU!!!!


might i suggest a before this gets out of hand, and also since the OP's question was answer and already decide and purchased his new weapon.



this was a good thread until grandeinter came in with his damn "dont come here, b/c im going to b a super cop." if he even gets hired.



oh and thought you had to be 19.5 to join??
Haha aww, the 21 year old thinks he's a wise old man. you're funny man.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:38 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill
"I'm a psychology major."
Psychology major means I think I have experience? Like you said earlier, knowledge isn't experience. And I agreed. At what point did I disagree with a CCW though? those posts said nothing relevant to what I'm asking. I even said "I hope you guys have a CCW" so when did i say i disagree? By that line of reasoning I would say even cops shouldn't have guns! I know anyone can snap, even those with CCWs. THAT was my point.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:42 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
Psychology major means I think I have experience? Claiming you KNOW people claims experience Like you said earlier, knowledge isn't experience. And I agreed. At what point did I disagree with a CCW though? Your post stated a link and relevance between possible future mental incapacity to those who have and do not have CCWs. I was saying that that point is irrelevant in nature. those posts said nothing relevant to what I'm asking. I even said "I hope you guys have a CCW" so when did i say i disagree? By that line of reasoning I would say even cops shouldn't have guns! I know anyone can snap, even those with CCWs. THAT was my point.
Agreed

Please lock this thread Mr. Mod.

Last edited by NiteQwill; 12-19-2007 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:43 PM   #74
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Oh this is good...
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:44 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
Psychology major means I think I have experience? Like you said earlier, knowledge isn't experience. And I agreed. At what point did I disagree with a CCW though? those posts said nothing relevant to what I'm asking. I even said "I hope you guys have a CCW" so when did i say i disagree? By that line of reasoning I would say even cops shouldn't have guns! I know anyone can snap, even those with CCWs. THAT was my point.



and since you know all, i thought you had to be 19.5 to join? and your only 18
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:44 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill
Agreed

Please lock this thread Mr. Mod.
Haha shadows on the wall... :-)
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:51 PM   #77
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Haha shadows on the wall... :-)
I'm honestly just done with your bantering and experience. I pray that that experience does not get you hurt or even worse on the beat. I support all my fellow LEOs, future and present. Good luck on your endeavors!
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Old 12-19-2007, 09:55 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by NiteQwill
I'm honestly just done with your bantering and experience. I pray that that experience does not get you hurt or even worse on the beat. I support all my fellow LEOs, future and present. Good luck on your endeavors!
Thank you. It was fun debating. But for the record, I know I have a hell of a lot to learn; and I will. Peace.
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:16 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by GrandeInter10
No. I love guns. I just don't like seeing people with problems with them. I major in psychology; I know people. At any point in time any person can snap. Ok, let's say there are very responsible and aware people with CCWs or just carrying guns. What says they don't lose their job, find out their wife is cheating, then lose their mind when they find out and happen to be in a restaurant and go around shooting people? It's illogical to think things are certain. Nothing is certain. And yes, I agree, there are some people who should carry guns. Like you said, those that carry large amounts of money and such. And that lady that stopped the shooting did well. But like I'm saying, it's not a certainty that a person WON'T use their weapon in the wrong way. A CCW holder is at least interviewed and investigated, it's somewhat of a smaller risk. But those who carry weapons without it could potentially be a killer. Again, how can you distinguish who's good and who's not? Will they tell you?
answer me this:

let's say there is an old lady or man who carries a pistol in his/her pocket when walking the dog at night. the person has been robbed or victimized in some other way before because they're perceived as an easy mark simply because of their age. would you arrest him/her?

people who have a ccw is a potential killer as well. do you think that if they shoot to stop a violent threat that the assailent won't die?

i think as you mature, your "good judgement" will as well.
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Old 12-19-2007, 11:28 PM   #80
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Firstly, no it's not 5 years. I'll be done with jails after 3. Secondly, I have good judgement. And it's not the only thing the academy won't teach me. There's many things they won't teach me that I know I'll have to learn elsewhere or through experience. A good judgment call is based on what you know and how you know it. I wouldn't want to see some cholo or blood or aryan brotherhood member walking around with a weapon. Why? Because they are a threat to the public. How do I know? Because they've proven their ignorance and disregard for public safety over and over. There's evidence. So what do you define as a well trained, judgment oriented guy? And how do you distinguish? And why is he less of a threat then the other guys I mentioned? For all you know, walking down the street, an average Joe brandishing a gun could be intent on killing as many people as he can before he's killed. How do you know he's a well trained, judgment oriented person? Is he going to tell you? Is he going to let you see his gun, tell you about his training, his thoughts, his goals? It's not that simple. And I, an 18 year old, know that. This world is full of people. Good people. Bad people. Unfortunately, the bad outweigh the good. And even with a CCW there's a risk that even a seemingly responsible person could become a psychological mess and run amok. I know a lot more than you would expect. I understand things better than most people. And Law Enforcement isn't just a job to me. It's my dream.
If there were more bad people than good people in this world, we'd all be screwed on a daily basis (just my opinion, I say there's more good than bad). What's your definition of "cholo"? I ask this, cause I'm Latin, and I tend to shave my head over the summer mostly.

Last edited by Cocoa; 12-19-2007 at 11:31 PM.
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