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Hey guys,
So I have a 2010 TSX V6 with 105k currently. I'm posting it in the TL forum because almost nobody has a V6 in the TSX section. I replaced my timing belt, pulleys, tensioner, water pump, and coolant at 95k because the tensioner crapped the bed. All OEM stuff. Since then, I've had a warbling/high rpm tapping from the timing cover. I've done a lot of googling, and found a lot of people with similar problems, such as i_hate_cars on the TL forum here, who chalked the noise up to nothing and just let it be. I was going to do just that, but it's been 10k miles since the t-belt and the noise has not gotten better, and I think I'm hearing a slight metallic grind when the rattle gets louder, like a dry bearing.
So the saga begins. Today I removed the t-belt covers (shoutout to the lisle 19mm harmonic pulley socket and my Milwaukee fuel saving me a ton of time) and started it up. With a cheapo harbor freight stethoscope, I found that the Koyo adjuster pulley is very loud. The noise isn't audible on the bracket, or the tensioner, just on the center bolt and inner race of the pulley. The noise is sort of audible on the idler pulley, but quiet, making me think it's radiating down the belt. Also, this brand new, OEM adjuster pulley has grease on the inner surface of the pulley, meaning the bearing is starting to fail! Besides the fact that this is absolutely unacceptable, it's scary to think what would've happened if I didn't get the urge to tear into the car again today. I've ordered another koyo adjuster, this time on Amazon and for about a third the price that Acura sells them for. I'll be replacing it later this week and I'll keep this thread updated. I wanted to create a post so that other people who run into this issue can see what I did, if, fingers crossed, I end up fixing the problem.
Did you actually get the full Gates timing belt kit? Make sure all the pulleys and everything were the same size and width? Any signs of rubbing going on or incorrect wear on the actual pulleys? Timing belt put on the right way? All the timing marks bang on?
Did you make sure that once you replaced the belt that all the lines matched up and spun the crank pulley with a 19m socket and ratchet with an extension all the way around to make sure all the timing marks were all lined up properly and put tension on the belt on the one side?
I ordered everything directly from Bernardi. Pump, pulleys, belt, tensioner. Torqued with a freshly calibrated digital torque wrench. I marked the pulleys to the belt with a silver sharpie, then transferred the marks and checked the two belts 3x over. The marks matched up after I test-rotated the belt, and the marks match up now. The leaky knocking pulley is the only sign of trouble. The engine runs beautifully and that hasn't changed in the 10k since I changed the belt.
As far as signs of wear, the belt looks fresh as can be. No signs of rubbing, and none that I can see when running with the covers off.
It's a very bizzare and characteristic sound and multiple people have had it on the TL. It's a low pitched warble that comes and goes, with no squeaky component.
To add, I understand that a tension issue would manifest as a flapping belt. The belt does not move at all, at idle or with throttle. The noise does not get worse with throttle, and does not sound like the standard tensioner failure flap/tap at any point.
I ordered everything directly from Bernardi. Pump, pulleys, belt, tensioner. Torqued with a freshly calibrated digital torque wrench. I marked the pulleys to the belt with a silver sharpie, then transferred the marks and checked the two belts 3x over. The marks matched up after I test-rotated the belt, and the marks match up now. The leaky knocking pulley is the only sign of trouble. The engine runs beautifully and that hasn't changed in the 10k since I changed the belt.
As far as signs of wear, the belt looks fresh as can be. No signs of rubbing, and none that I can see when running with the covers off.
It's a very bizzare and characteristic sound and multiple people have had it on the TL. It's a low pitched warble that comes and goes, with no squeaky component.
To add, I understand that a tension issue would manifest as a flapping belt. The belt does not move at all, at idle or with throttle. The noise does not get worse with throttle, and does not sound like the standard tensioner failure flap/tap at any point.
Are all the timing marks bang on? Not on the belt but on the two cam pulleys and your crank pulley? Should have lines on the top where the cover would be where the arrows should line up and there's one for the crank pulley too.
Thanks for trying, regardless. I doubt it's the chirp tsb problem since the noise wasn't there before I changed the belt, and the loudest area is the hammering sound from the tensioner pulley. If replacing it doesn't fix the noise, at least the pulley was failing and I caught it early. I appreciate the help.
Thanks for trying, regardless. I doubt it's the chirp tsb problem since the noise wasn't there before I changed the belt, and the loudest area is the hammering sound from the tensioner pulley. If replacing it doesn't fix the noise, at least the pulley was failing and I caught it early. I appreciate the help.
Yeah try just replacing the tensioner pulley and post if it changes anything.
Will do. It's in the books for Wednesday if I'm free. I'm dying to see if it works, as much as I hate the idea of compressing a perfectly good tensioner. The other reason I don't want to go and try the shim is because this car isn't on any of the tsb lists, and the sound is nothing like the chirp. I read another tech's warning that he's seen customers with shredded belts at 20k post service that demanded the shim, because on a properly machined block, the shim causes the belt to run off the pulleys.
Just got home and removed the top cover, stuck the stethoscope against the oil pump body. No noise there. Water on the inner side of the belt doesn't affect the sound either, like outlined in the most recent squeak TSB.
Will do. It's in the books for Wednesday if I'm free. I'm dying to see if it works, as much as I hate the idea of compressing a perfectly good tensioner. The other reason I don't want to go and try the shim is because this car isn't on any of the tsb lists, and the sound is nothing like the chirp. I read another tech's warning that he's seen customers with shredded belts at 20k post service that demanded the shim, because on a properly machined block, the shim causes the belt to run off the pulleys.
What kills me is they had this problem in 07-09 and then again for the 2015 models. How did they manage that...
Who knows. Apparently I have heard about all the problems with the new 2015's. I really never see them because of warranty and everyone goes to the dealer. But we have a couple customers that have new ones and they have the most ridiculous problems with them. Like on the new MDX. When she closes the hood you literally have to slam the thing from the "trunk is open" light to go off & a couple of other issues that are warranty.
So replacing the pulley quieted the car down significantly. I believe that the warble arises from resonance of the belt, simply because of the design of the engine. The knocking component of the noise is gone. Here is the pullley:
This is an essentially brand new, OEM, koyo pulley, with about 10,000 miles on it. Insane.
And here is the awesome vise that's basically made for tensioners, 20$ from lowes:
There is, new TLX and MDX. Same chirp, same fix, same stupid yamada pump. I'm getting a little paranoid that perhaps you were right, and my noise is due to a rub as well, but my sound is more like chewbacca taking a nap than crickets. Definitely much quieter than it was though. If that's the case, I'm worried that the new pulley may become damaged as well (even though the original one was flawless). But either way I have no way of knowing which shim to even use, since my car's unlisted. So you think I should just forget about the shim?
I don't know if you have tiny hands or is that pulley is huge. Anyhow the shim was suppose to go on the idler pulley. The one on the front of the engine not the tensioner side. My vehicle was listed as the affected one but when I try it without the shim, it didn't rub any. So i did it without it. Still today no noises.
Have you check your drivebelt tensioner?
Haha I'm actually 6 foot 2 and have ape hands, it's all perspective. It's not the drive belt tensioner, and I can't actually see it rubbing. It makes the same noise without the serp belt. It's clearly from the timing belt, but now that the pulley is swapped it's quieter and I can't pinpoint it to the pulley.
The noise has basically returned. Maybe I'm trying to convince myself that it's gone. Who the hell knows. Here are two videos, one of the noise and lack of movement in the belt and tensioner, and the second showing the amount of slack in the belt by the tensioner. Could the new tensioner be faulty? Is this normal?
When you compressed the hydraulic tensioner did you slowly compress it on that vice or did you crank it? Can you see any signs of leaking oil from the hydraulic tensioner?
It almost sounds like there is not enough tension on the belt.
Slowly. Over 15 minutes. The sound is the same as it was before I reset the tensioner, it was installed new. No signs of leakage. Think I should pick up a new tensioner?
Edit. Just bought a new tensioner. Losing my mind. Gonna set this car on fire.
The slack seems right because you're flicking the sides of the belt. Try pushing the whole belt.
The noise is a belt grinding type of sound and it could lead to the metal guide shield that goes onto the crankshaft right before you put on the pulley. Sounds as if you had reversed it.
Good thought. Nope. I thought I had as well, I had all the covers off last week replacing the pulley, checked myself (before I wrecked myself) 3x over. Curved side in. Yeah the slack doesn't seem too bad, it twists, but it isn't actually loose. It's just not rock hard. I ordered a new tensioner for shits and giggles, maybe Murphy's law will keep me safe. And I do agree, it sounds like a grinding, but there is zero wear on the belt. The noise is also identical with all the covers off. I just can't see where it could possibly be grinding. I am 99% certain it started at the timing belt replacement. Just wish I could pinpoint the noise. It looks like red engine YouTube guy never resolved the noise, and neither did the other folks that had it. I_hate_cars had it too, but he sold his car. These are all guys with 3.2 TLs. Ver strange that I'm getting it now with the TSX. And NOBODY else owns a V6 TSX that actually works on their own car, it seems. I don't think a layperson would hear this noise, because they don't stare at their idling engine from a foot away for minutes at a time.
That noise is usually produced by a going hydraulic tensioner that's what it sounds like to me. It sounds exactly like the sound I had going when mine was failing. It only started doing it from 92-95k and when I replaced everything the sound ended up going away.
One other thought. The picture with you holding the tensioner pulley, the hole right where your thumb is, there is a piece that goes in there before you bolt it back in. Did you check if it is on the right side? If it was me, I would do a quick remove and install.
I had a rattling noise when mine went at 95k, it was really bad in the cold, sounded like valve train noise and went away as it warmed up. Did the full TB job, now this noise only happens when warm. Quiet as a mouse when cold. Jason... Shall I install the new tensioner that I got and see what happens? Or keep it for the next Acura? It just makes me crazy that a brand new, Honda branded tensioner can be faulty out of the box.
S power...the sleeve is in there, with the flange on the water pump side. Removed and replaced when I did the leaky pulley, nothing changed really.
One other thought. The picture with you holding the tensioner pulley, the hole right where your thumb is, there is a piece that goes in there before you bolt it back in. Did you check if it is on the right side? If it was me, I would do a quick remove and install.
Never really thought of that either. But make sure its the right way.
The other guys that had this sound also had it start up after they replaced all the components.
And again thanks guys for all the help. It seems like crowdsourcing is the only way I'm going to solve this. As much as I hate just throwing parts at it, looks like I'll have to try the tensioner now. $$$$$$$.
Guys I'm pretty sure I messed up. I didn't use the battery tie down, and just let the tensioner snap out when I did the belt. If this messed up a seal, and is now causing a vibration, I'm going to eat the tensioner. I did everything else 100%. It must be a tensioner I won the lottery at ruining. We'll see on Sunday.
Brand new tensioner. Released it slowly. Turned it over and checked it 5 times. Same noise. There's a demon in my car, I'm gonna give up just like everyone else. Next car's gonna be an Infiniti.
The noise has been progressively getting worse, taking on a metallic screeching. I ordered a new belt, and a new waterpump, both genuine. Did the job in record time today, and the noise seems to be gone! I find it absolutely bizzare that I would get a faulty bearing and a faulty water pump in one order. But that's what it looks like.
The noise has been progressively getting worse, taking on a metallic screeching. I ordered a new belt, and a new waterpump, both genuine. Did the job in record time today, and the noise seems to be gone! I find it absolutely bizzare that I would get a faulty bearing and a faulty water pump in one order. But that's what it looks like.
Good to hear. The ones before this was oem parts too was it? I have done countless tbelt/ water pump on Honda and Acura and all came out perfect with no odd noises. I have always use Gates timing kit, which I believe the supplier of oem. The belts are made in Japan just like the oem but without the Honda imprints.
Yep, genuine from bernardi Acura. It's weird as hell. The water pump will clunk and have play in the shaft if I run it under hot water for a while. It's perfectly tight when cold, so this explains the rattle as the engine warms up. The noise is completely gone at this point.
Good work. Very impressive
I am not telling you anything new here, just reinforcing what you already know.
When I worked in the business I was always impressed with my boss's ability to "go back to basics". I myself tend to always think the problem is something complex and I have to stop myself from going off on tangents. If you made changes to a "machine" and now it has a problem, it is very likely that the problem is related to something you did. Sounds very obvious but actually hard to practice. You tend not to think the new parts could be the problem, but that happens, and if you think it can't happen, you delay finding the answer. Anyway...glad you fixed it and congratulations.
Yep, genuine from bernardi Acura. It's weird as hell. The water pump will clunk and have play in the shaft if I run it under hot water for a while. It's perfectly tight when cold, so this explains the rattle as the engine warms up. The noise is completely gone at this point.
After scouring 3 forums, 2 Facebook enthusiast pages AND doing the timing belt 3 times to make sure I did it correctly I've found what it is. That warbling sound is coming from the Aisin kit timing belt itself stretching and contracting. The small amount of play in the tensioner idler gives it that sound. This is a flaw in the AISIN kit. The Aisin kit is not OEM in it's entirety. The belt that comes in the kit is made by Mitsuboshi which is NOT OEM. The OEM belt is made by Gates. If anyone reading this wants to avoid that sound, use an OEM kit that costs more. That being said I'm keeping the aisin kit installed and just live with the sound since it doesn't hurt anything
The belt that comes in the kit is made by Mitsuboshi which is NOT OEM. The OEM belt is made by Gates.
What source reference do you have that shows the OEM TB is manufactured by Gates? My reference states it's manufactured by Bando or Mitsuboshi.
I wonder which source is correct. I don't want to use Mitsuboshi if it's not OEM.
02-20-2016, 05:21 PM
