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Tony Stewart hits/kills fellow Dirt track driver

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Tony Stewart hits/kills fellow Dirt track driver

 
Old 08-10-2014, 06:20 AM
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Tony Stewart hits/kills fellow Dirt track driver

Unbelievable-video is very graphic. I clicked because I didn't think it would actually show the incident.
http://deadspin.com/reports-tony-ste...ing-1618893708
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:13 AM
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:15 AM
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^^ I think Stewart will not be found not responsible but damn that was bad, really bad. Stewart appears to have blipped the throttle, fishtailed, struck and dragged the other driver. He knows how easy it is to overpower the tires on a sprint car at low-speed.

RIP to the driver, I'm guessing Mobil1 will see how this settles out but if they pull sponsorship for PR it wouldn't surprise me.

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Old 08-10-2014, 08:25 AM
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Thats crazy.
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:31 AM
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i had to watch it a few times.
that moment when he gassed it tho
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:38 AM
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damn.
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:40 AM
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Tony Stewart will not race Watkins Glen

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Old 08-10-2014, 01:04 PM
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Well I guess the other user deleted his thread of the same incident. I quoted another racer explaining how easy it is to pitch these cars sideways and how they characteristics do so and Tony knew how the car would react.

I stated I think Tony wanted to kick some dirt up and accidentally hit the kid.
Really sucks. What a shame.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:20 PM
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Well once again his anger issues get the best of him and he finally went and fucked up big-time. At the expense of some 20 year-old kid.

I'd say Tony's major league racing career is over. And his legal troubles are just beginning.

There's a legal term for killing someone, even if it's not intended (manslaughter?, negligent homicide?). We'll see if he's criminally liable. I think he should be. He will almost certainly be civilly liable.
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Old 08-10-2014, 01:26 PM
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If his fellow racers have anything to say about it hell get his with vehicular manslaughter probably.
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:05 PM
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The legal part sounds like it could be mucky. Racers must sign some type of waiver before getting on the track, right? And Kevin Ward looks like he got pretty close to Stewart's car as it was passing.

It's a terrible tragedy no matter what happens now.
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94 View Post
Well once again his anger issues get the best of him and he finally went and fucked up big-time. At the expense of some 20 year-old kid.

I'd say Tony's major league racing career is over. And his legal troubles are just beginning.

There's a legal term for killing someone, even if it's not intended (manslaughter?, negligent homicide?). We'll see if he's criminally liable. I think he should be. He will almost certainly be civilly liable.
although i see your point and stewart should be liable, but people will say that 20 yr old did get out of his car as soon as he can and ran out onto oncoming traffic. instead of waiting until officials can get drivers to slow down or stop.
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Old 08-10-2014, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94 View Post
Well once again his anger issues get the best of him and he finally went and fucked up big-time.
Seems more appropriate for the kid.

This was more than avoidable on both accounts. You get out of a car on a live circuit & willingly move towards cars on the track in a black suit on a dark track, moving towards cars with low visibility & poor brakes. The others had to avoid Ward Jr. as well, & he continued to move into the path of more cars just make a confrontation.

Whether or not Tony giving throttle was meant to throw dirt at him, or trying to change the pitch of the car (as the he does make an attempt to avoid him at the last second), it's clear Tony doesn't realize where Ward Jr. is until its too late.
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Old 08-10-2014, 04:44 PM
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Don't know the whole story. The video is certainly disturbing.

But that kid was stupid getting out of his vehicle on a live track, his own anger was the his end. Very sad.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:40 PM
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.... “criminal intent” is not the only state of mind that could lead to criminal charges against Stewart. For instance, negligent homicide refers to accidentally causing the death of another through negligent conduct, such as reckless operation of a motor vehicle. Crucially, negligent homicide would not require that Stewart intentionally tried to kill Ward, only that he drove recklessly or carelessly. Such misconduct might include trying to scare — but not hurt — Ward. In New York, negligent homicide is a Class E felony and carries a maximum punishment of four years in prison. ....

http://www.si.com/racing/2014/08/10/...-ramifications


This is not cut and dried. But one thing it was not was 'a racing accident'. That would've been the previous lap .... if the kid got pinched into the wall and instead of merely a cut tire, had flipped over the barrier and the car burst into flame and he died, THAT would've been a 'racing accident'.

This is about whether Stewart acted in a way that was needlessly reckless. And, again, even if he can't be found criminally liable, just wait for the civil suits get started.

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Old 08-10-2014, 07:53 PM
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Tony Stewart's past and reputation will definitely hurt him.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94 View Post
Well once again his anger issues get the best of him and he finally went and fucked up big-time. At the expense of some 20 year-old kid.

I'd say Tony's major league racing career is over. And his legal troubles are just beginning.

There's a legal term for killing someone, even if it's not intended (manslaughter?, negligent homicide?). We'll see if he's criminally liable. I think he should be. He will almost certainly be civilly liable.
I dont fully agree. The kid was partially at fault as well. He is on a racing circuit on foot in the dark and imho took an unnecessary risk and should be held responsible for his own actions not matter how unfortunate they are.

Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
Seems more appropriate for the kid.

This was more than avoidable on both accounts. You get out of a car on a live circuit & willingly move towards cars on the track in a black suit on a dark track, moving towards cars with low visibility & poor brakes. The others had to avoid Ward Jr. as well, & he continued to move into the path of more cars just make a confrontation.

Whether or not Tony giving throttle was meant to throw dirt at him, or trying to change the pitch of the car (as the he does make an attempt to avoid him at the last second), it's clear Tony doesn't realize where Ward Jr. is until its too late.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:57 PM
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When i had seen the video for the 1st time this morning, i thought that the other driver had charged the car as tony was coming where in fact he did get out of the car and stopped. Tony had cut it too close doing whatever he wanted to do. he had plenty of space at the bottom of the track to move down. He was standing there when he got hit.

If he intended to spray him with dirt, his temper got the best of him.

Judging by that video, i can see him getting charged with homicide. Tony knows what he was doing for the most part. I don't think he intentionally wanted to hurt him. But like all of us who speed in our own cars, there is always the chance that something can happen and those actions are the drivers' responsibility.

I like smoke, but we all know he has a temper.

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Old 08-10-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by usdmJON View Post
If his fellow racers have anything to say about it hell get his with vehicular manslaughter probably.
I have no doubt there are many who look to make money off this. Some of them will be giving Tony Stewart advice on why he shouldn't take responsibility. IMHO, some of those people will give that advice because they are on the Tony Stewart gravy train and want to keep that gravy train going.



Originally Posted by asianspec View Post
although i see your point and stewart should be liable, but people will say that 20 yr old did get out of his car as soon as he can and ran out onto oncoming traffic. instead of waiting until officials can get drivers to slow down or stop.
He increased his risk. But did he have any reasonable expectation that another driver would attempt to swerve toward him and critically mis-judge the attempt?

Stewart would've been better off giving Ward a drive-by finger. But that's not in Stewart's nature .... based on past history .... now he's going to pay the piper.
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Old 08-10-2014, 09:24 PM
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I haven't seen the video and I don't plan to. I don't usually watch dirt track racing, but almost every time they show a race recap, it's some accident followed by a driver getting upset and walking close to the car that put him in the wall to give them a piece of their mind. Tragic, but hopefully these racers will now think twice and cool down.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick_TL-S View Post
Seems more appropriate for the kid.

This was more than avoidable on both accounts. You get out of a car on a live circuit & willingly move towards cars on the track in a black suit on a dark track, moving towards cars with low visibility & poor brakes. The others had to avoid Ward Jr. as well, & he continued to move into the path of more cars just make a confrontation.

Whether or not Tony giving throttle was meant to throw dirt at him, or trying to change the pitch of the car (as the he does make an attempt to avoid him at the last second), it's clear Tony doesn't realize where Ward Jr. is until its too late.
This is going to be the bast case scenario. The ONE interview I read from a fellow racer stated it was pretty much done by someone who knew what would happen.

"I know Tony could see him. I know how you can see out of these cars. When Tony got close to him, he hit the throttle. When you hit a throttle on a sprint car, the car sets sideways. It set sideways, the right rear tire hit Kevin, Kevin was sucked underneath and was stuck under it for a second or two and then it threw him about 50 yards."
http://www.foxsports.com/nascar/stor...stewart-081014

Here the fellow driver claims fact tony could see the kid based on the interviewees own experience on the same track and fact tony would know how the car was going to act when he throttled it.

With interviews like that, tony will probably be pinned with negligence or down right vehicular manslaughter.
The nature of the waiver they sign will have a large impact. But we live in America where stupidity is often forgiven.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:59 AM
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The other driver was also wearing a black fire suit and that could have made it difficult to see him.

I don't know if it's just me, but it looks as if the rear of the car was to the left and not the right. The vid is at a difficult angle to really tell.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:42 AM
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A subject that's been touched upon but not elucidated in the eyes of applicable NYS law is Ward, Jr. is culpable for putting himself into the path of danger to some degree. A jury would be asked (after finding Stewart negligent in a civil suit) "Do you believe Ward, Jr. is responsible at all for placing himself into the path of danger? If Yes, continue to next question, if no, stop and report to the Court deputy that your deliberations are finished." The next question would ask the jury to apportion a percentage to Ward's culpability if the prior question was answered in the affirmative. That percentage would then be used to reduce the amount of monetary damages awarded, ie-50% culpability would mean the overall award would be reduced by 50% ($1M becomes $500,000).

The unfortunate thing for parents in NY is their children's lives are valued by determining how much monetary assistance that child would provide to the parents (if not survived by a spouse and/or their own children). Fear of imminent death would factor in as well. Horrible subject but written to help.

It sure looks and sounds to me like Tony intended to mess with Ward to some degree. It also looked like Ward bobbed when he should've weaved at the moment the car was sliding in an oversteer moment thereby causing the strike. Sure he never should've gotten out of his car like that and sure Tony probably shouldn't have tried to intimidate him but it surely wasn't an intentional hit.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:21 AM
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I was thinking it was a 50/50 responsibility also. I don't think we'll see drivers getting out of their cars in the near future to challenge another while they are still moving.
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Old 08-11-2014, 11:42 AM
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I wasn't necessarily saying it was 50/50 Rich-just using that as a figure for easy math that even I wouldn't fuck up. LOL
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:08 PM
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And where do these young racers get the idea to get out of their car and create an on-track confrontation?

- golly, I wish I knew.






Last edited by Bearcat94; 08-11-2014 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 08-11-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan View Post
A subject that's been touched upon but not elucidated in the eyes of applicable NYS law is Ward, Jr. is culpable for putting himself into the path of danger to some degree. A jury would be asked (after finding Stewart negligent in a civil suit) "Do you believe Ward, Jr. is responsible at all for placing himself into the path of danger? If Yes, continue to next question, if no, stop and report to the Court deputy that your deliberations are finished." The next question would ask the jury to apportion a percentage to Ward's culpability if the prior question was answered in the affirmative. That percentage would then be used to reduce the amount of monetary damages awarded, ie-50% culpability would mean the overall award would be reduced by 50% ($1M becomes $500,000).

The unfortunate thing for parents in NY is their children's lives are valued by determining how much monetary assistance that child would provide to the parents (if not survived by a spouse and/or their own children). Fear of imminent death would factor in as well. Horrible subject but written to help.

It sure looks and sounds to me like Tony intended to mess with Ward to some degree. It also looked like Ward bobbed when he should've weaved at the moment the car was sliding in an oversteer moment thereby causing the strike. Sure he never should've gotten out of his car like that and sure Tony probably shouldn't have tried to intimidate him but it surely wasn't an intentional hit.
The bold sums it up for me. End story. Well, not with court proceedings. But thats the story as I see it. Glad its not my job to figure out the % of fault. Thatll be tough.
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:08 PM
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Precisely Bearcat
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dallison View Post
I was thinking it was a 50/50 responsibility also. I don't think we'll see drivers getting out of their cars in the near future to challenge another while they are still moving.
If you think it's near 50/50 responsibility are you assuming Stewart woul have hit him if he stayed in his car?

This is a tragedy no doubt but I think you could successfully argue that ward is 100% responsible. Had he not done such a foolish and irresponsible thing like run out on a race track none of this occurs. Remember, Stewart may have hit him but he was running into Stewart's path.

To me assigning a portion of the blame on Stewart assumes he was going to make contact whether ward was in his car or not. What percentage of ward running on the track is Stewart's responsibility? I'd say zero.

Fwiw, I couldn't care less about NASCAR or Tony Stewart all my thoughts are those of a casual observer of the news.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
If you think it's near 50/50 responsibility are you assuming Stewart woul have hit him if he stayed in his car?
No... that's why it's 50/50. If Stewart hadn't done what he did this wouldn't have happened. If Ward hadn't done what he did this wouldn't have happened.

Both parties did "a foolish and irresponsible thing". What percentage of Stewart goosing the throttle was Ward's fault?
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
If you think it's near 50/50 responsibility are you assuming Stewart woul have hit him if he stayed in his car?

This is a tragedy no doubt but I think you could successfully argue that ward is 100% responsible. Had he not done such a foolish and irresponsible thing like run out on a race track none of this occurs. Remember, Stewart may have hit him but he was running into Stewart's path.

To me assigning a portion of the blame on Stewart assumes he was going to make contact whether ward was in his car or not. What percentage of ward running on the track is Stewart's responsibility? I'd say zero.

Fwiw, I couldn't care less about NASCAR or Tony Stewart all my thoughts are those of a casual observer of the news.
I'm assuming there would be no dead guy if he stayed in his car. As we say in the law "but for" something occurring (guy getting out of car and wandering into the driving path of a car) this would not have happened. The point of assigning blame is worthless-kid's family will get a heavy hitter for an attorney, Stewart will buck up and it will be a done deal. Stewart will never want to go to trial; the family doesn't want to relive that and I'm sure Stewart will not want to make them do it.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Aman View Post
No... that's why it's 50/50. If Stewart hadn't done what he did this wouldn't have happened. If Ward hadn't done what he did this wouldn't have happened.

Both parties did "a foolish and irresponsible thing". What percentage of Stewart goosing the throttle was Ward's fault?
I see Ward as the instigator here.

Stewart goosing the throttle would have been a non event had Ward stayed in his car.

I still see this as 100% on Ward. He intentionally put himself in danger, Stewart unintentionally killed him.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:08 PM
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We've seen a few nutjobs go running out onto F1 tracks. If they got hit does that make the drivers responsible? How is that different than this? There aren't suppose to be pedestrians on the race track.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by black label View Post
I see Ward as the instigator here.

Stewart goosing the throttle would have been a non event had Ward stayed in his car.

I still see this as 100% on Ward. He intentionally put himself in danger, Stewart unintentionally killed him.
I agree but would never foresee a potential jurist in that county seeing it your way. Maybe in NYC or Buffalo but not mid-state NY
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:42 PM
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definitely Ward was 50% responsible for getting out of hhis car and running towards the cars. Stewart is the other as i am sure he only wanted to buzz him or spray him with dirt. I don't see him wanting to hit his parked car with his own.

Now if stewart didn't see him at all until he was 1-2 seconds on top of him, then i would say it's all Wards' fault.
Small tracks like that are dark and i can see how he might not have been seen until the last second.

Originally Posted by black label View Post
If you think it's near 50/50 responsibility are you assuming Stewart woul have hit him if he stayed in his car?

This is a tragedy no doubt but I think you could successfully argue that ward is 100% responsible. Had he not done such a foolish and irresponsible thing like run out on a race track none of this occurs. Remember, Stewart may have hit him but he was running into Stewart's path.

To me assigning a portion of the blame on Stewart assumes he was going to make contact whether ward was in his car or not. What percentage of ward running on the track is Stewart's responsibility? I'd say zero.

Fwiw, I couldn't care less about NASCAR or Tony Stewart all my thoughts are those of a casual observer of the news.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan View Post
I agree but would never foresee a potential jurist in that county seeing it your way. Maybe in NYC or Buffalo but not mid-state NY
Yeah, I have no idea about the jury demographics in NY.

From what I understand Ward is a bit of a local legend. If this were to go to trial, I forsee the Stewart camp trying have the trial in a different area claiming it impossible to find an unbiased jury. I know theres a legal term for that, "change of venue" maybe? I slept at home last night so I don't have special holiday inn legal knowledge
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chief F1 Fan View Post
I wasn't necessarily saying it was 50/50 Rich-just using that as a figure for easy math that even I wouldn't fuck up. LOL
i was thinking 50/50 and had read your post quickly.

Any way you cut it, someone famous killed an unknown and it made national news.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by dallison View Post
definitely Ward was 50% responsible for getting out of hhis car and running towards the cars. Stewart is the other as i am sure he only wanted to buzz him or spray him with dirt. I don't see him wanting to hit his parked car with his own.

Now if stewart didn't see him at all until he was 1-2 seconds on top of him, then i would say it's all Wards' fault.
Small tracks like that are dark and i can see how he might not have been seen until the last second.
I feel you're looking a these percentages a bit myopically using a "it takes 2 to tango" mentality. You're assigning 50/50 blame because there no 3rd party.

Ward did at least 2 things (maybe more) that led to the incident. He both got out of his car, then walked into the track. You could easily say he did a third thing being intentionally trying to confront Stewart while Stewart was driving.

Stewart gave the engine a punch. That's pretty much it. I don't see how you can assign any blame for him not avoiding Ward when Ward was actively running at Stewart's car.

Regardless of whether Stewart did enough to avoid Ward, you can not ignore the fact that Ward did nothing to get out of Stewart's way and actually ran at a moving vehicle.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:30 PM
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guess I'll put this here as well...

Originally Posted by SLIKRIK View Post
It was only a matter of time before something like this occurred.

This is a tragedy and a lesson.

Isn't there a rule in place to prohibit or ban drivers from running out onto the racetrack pointing fingers/throwing helmets after a collision?
If not, there should be.
It should also state that u must exit the racetrack IMMEDIATELY if u are involved in a collision... unless of course ur trapped in the vehicle.
In that case just wait for first responders.
Failure to comply could result in fines and/or penalties.

Save ur grievances until the race has concluded.

Ultimately, Ward let his emotions get the better of him and it cost him his life.

Let's see how this thing plays out, but if Ward would've never ran out onto the track then Tony Stewart wouldn't be shitting bricks right now.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:00 PM
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Guys: the 50/50 I apportioned was entirely am exercise by example. Not a commentary on what actually occurred. Re-read my post. It's l written in a vacuum of ideals encapsulated by a jury's view of a potential lawsuit, nothing more.
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