GP of Singapore 2008

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Old 09-11-2009, 10:51 AM
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Banned for Life:

Piquet
Flavio
Symonds



Old 09-11-2009, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Bearcat94
Banned for Life:

Piquet
Flavio
Symonds



Except Piquet has been granted immunity for cooperating with the investigation.
Old 09-11-2009, 01:59 PM
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How are they going to prove that Renault "told" Piquet to crash??? Am I wrong in that it is basically what Piquet is saying vs what Renault is saying?

There is not any hard evidence right,...no recordings or anything like that right????

I bet Renault sticks to what they said about Piquet approaching them, end up receiving a huge penalty, and maybe someone gets banned.

Regardless of what happens,.....the two Piquet tools look like idiots.


I feel really bad for Massa.
Old 09-11-2009, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by West6MT
How are they going to prove that Renault "told" Piquet to crash??? Am I wrong in that it is basically what Piquet is saying vs what Renault is saying?

There is not any hard evidence right,...no recordings or anything like that right????

I bet Renault sticks to what they said about Piquet approaching them, end up receiving a huge penalty, and maybe someone gets banned.

Regardless of what happens,.....the two Piquet tools look like idiots.


I feel really bad for Massa.
As with most cases, there is no smoking gun here, but there appears to be sufficient circumstantial evidence to prove that the accident was caused deliberately. You have the telemetry of the car showing Piquet continueing to accelerate when normal people would have braked to avoid an accident. Also, Piquet continuously asked about his lap number on the radio, something that he normally doesn't do.

Then you have Symond's and Briatore's conflicting statements that really hurt Renault's defense as well.
Old 09-11-2009, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by F-C
Except Piquet has been granted immunity for cooperating with the investigation.

Wouldn't be the first time FIA said one thing and did another. From where I sit, that seems to be their modus operandi.
Old 09-11-2009, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by F-C
As with most cases, there is no smoking gun here, but there appears to be sufficient circumstantial evidence to prove that the accident was caused deliberately. You have the telemetry of the car showing Piquet continueing to accelerate when normal people would have braked to avoid an accident. Also, Piquet continuously asked about his lap number on the radio, something that he normally doesn't do.

Then you have Symond's and Briatore's conflicting statements that really hurt Renault's defense as well.
Hmmm, should be interesting when the dust settles on this etc.

I must have missed the conflicting statements from FB and PS.
Old 09-15-2009, 08:36 AM
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Symonds offered race-fix immunity

By Jonathan Noble Tuesday, September 15th 2009, 06:42 GMT


Renault director of engineering Pat Symonds has been offered immunity from punishment by the FIA if he offers full disclosure of the facts surrounding last year's Singapore Grand Prix race-fix allegations.

With less than one week to go before Renault faces the FIA World Motor Sport Council to answer charges that it asked Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately to help Fernando Alonso win, sources have confirmed to AUTOSPORT that Symonds has been given the chance of an amnesty.

The development comes on the back of interviews between Symonds, FIA representatives and members from the Quest agency at the Belgian Grand Prix where it was deemed his evidence was 'central' to finding answers to what happened in Singapore.

In the stewards' report about that interview, a copy of which has been seen by AUTOSPORT, Symonds confirms that the race-day meeting between himself, Briatore and Piquet did take place.

The stewards reports added: "Mr. Symonds accepted that he had discussed with NPJ (Piquet) the possibility of a deliberate crash at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix, although he said the suggestion was raised by NPJ."

However, Symonds then refused to answer questions about specific allegations about the events that took place that day (see separate story).

It is understood, however, that the reason to offer Symonds immunity has come from the fact that he indicated at the time that he may have further useful information.

The stewards report stated: "Mr. Symonds suggested at his interview on 27 August that he might wish to revert to the Stewards with further information, including information responsive to the various questions he had declined to answer.

"However, no such further information was provided on 27 August. On 28 August, Mr Symonds was summoned back before the Stewards to be asked if he wanted to give further information on the questions he had declined to answer. Mr Symonds again declined to answer the questions."

It is not clear if Symonds has accepted the immunity from punishment offer, but should he do so it means only Renault boss Flavio Briatore will face the FIA's WMSC without any such deal in place. FIA president Max Mosley confirmed at the Italian Grand Prix that Piquet would be exempt too.
Looks like Max is targeting Flavio as the fall guy. Will Symonds squeal? Looks like a lose-lose proposition for him.
Old 09-15-2009, 10:38 AM
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I saw a newsfeed saying Piquete Sr. was out to "destroy" Briatore in a conversation with Max Mosley. If they offer Piquet the Pissant Jr. immunity; Symonds immunity, that only leaves Flav's ass hanging out to dry.
Old 09-15-2009, 10:43 AM
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Interesting: Flav out, Prost in?

Briatore out, Prost in?

It is rumoured that Flavio Briatore will be forced to leave the Renault F1 Team as the managers of the constructor are not satisfied with the way he has been handling the Piquet-situation. This weekend Briatore declared in an interview that he was forced by Piquet Sr. to break-up the relationship of Nelsinho and his 50-year-old friend. The Renault top believes it is not justified that Briatore talks about the personal life of Piquet Jr. despite the whole mud throwing in the race-fix scandal.

It is rumoured that Renault already made contact with Alain Prost to take over from Flavio Briatore who has been on board with the team since the Benetton-days.
Old 09-15-2009, 11:00 AM
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Fuck Piquete Sr and jr. They are Douche nozzles. They are just upset that the kid couldnt drive worth a damn and got ousted
Old 09-15-2009, 11:06 AM
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I have (repeating myself here) always HATED Piquet Sr., he's the asshole of the century in F1.
Old 09-15-2009, 05:31 PM
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fuck both those tards
Old 09-15-2009, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by F-C
Except Piquet has been granted immunity for cooperating with the investigation.
Doesn't really matter, because Piquet Jr.'s racing career is done. There won't be any racing outfit that will hire

(1) a whistle-blower (if he is innocent),

or

(2) a professional race driver who was unprofessional enough to crash his race car deliberately in order to fix the race results (if he is guilty).
Old 09-16-2009, 06:04 AM
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Interesting, if Flav knew about the impending crash, he sure doesn't sound like it in this transcript of the pitwall convos w/ the team (neither does Symonds)

The transcript starts off with Symonds, Piquet and an engineer discussing the team's strategy.

Symonds: "I can tell you now we are not three-stopping.

Symonds: "Don't worry about fuel because I'm going to get him [Alonso] out of this traffic earlier than that."

Piquet: "What lap are we in, what lap are we in?"

Renault engineer: "He just asked: 'What lap are we in?'"

Symonds replies: "Yeah, tell him that he's about to complete lap eight."

Symonds adds. "No, just tell him, he is about, he's just completing, he's about to complete lap eight."

Later Symonds says: "Right, I'm going to... I think we're going to stop him just before we catch him [Williams driver Kazuki Nakajima, who was ahead of Alonso] and get him out of it, the reason being we've still got this worry on the fuel pump. It's only a couple of laps short. We're going to be stopping him early and we're going to go to lap 40."

Following Alonso's pit stop, Symonds tells to the engineer: "OK right, you've got to push him really bloody hard now. If he [Piquet] doesn't get past Barrichello, he's going nowhere, he's got to get past Barrichello this lap."

Briatore adds: "Tell him, push."

Piquet's race engineer: "Nelson, no excuses now, you've got to get past Barrichello. You've got four clicks straight-line advantage. Come on, you've got to push now, you must get past him."

The Brazilian puts his car in the wall a few minutes later at Turn 17.

Multiple voices: "Nelson's off. F****** hell. Nelson's had a crash. I would say that would be a red flag. It's huge [all speaking at the same time] .

Piquet: "Sorry guys. I had a little outing."

Engineer: "Is he all right, Is he all right?"

Symonds: "Ask him if he's all right."

Engineer: "Are you OK? Are you OK?"

Engineer: "Fernando's just gone past it."

Engineer: "OK, yellow flag."

Piquet: "Yeah, I hit my head in the back. I think I'm OK."

Engineer: "OK, understood."

Symonds: "Right [inaudible], stop him."

Engineer: "Safety car, safety car, safety car, safety car. Fernando, safety car, mixture three."

Symonds: "Tell him to be careful, turn 17 I think it is."

Engineer: "F****** hell that was a big shunt."

Briatore: "F****** hell ... my every f****** disgrace, f******, he's not a driver."

Symonds: "What position is Fernando in?"

Engineer: "Well, we were 20, and we're first guy to pick the safety car up."

Symonds: "Yeah, we're not ..."

Engineer: "He will get away past it but he's got to wait."

Briatore: "What position we are now in all this?"

Symonds replies: "To be honest, I don't know Flavio. It's got to have been good for Fernando. But I honestly don't know where he is."
Old 09-16-2009, 08:35 AM
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Looks like the hammer is going to come down hard on Renault. I would guess that Alonso's "win" will have to be returned. Surely if Renault is found to be guilty of sporting fraud, they will have to take away the "win."

Will the FIA revise then entire result? Does this mean Nico Rosberg's second place will be elevated to first? First ever win for Rosberg Jr. and first ever win for a Toyota engine?
Old 09-16-2009, 12:26 PM
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Excellent point on Williams F-C, I have no idea.
Old 10-15-2009, 07:28 AM
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The story that won't die.

Felipe Massa says he remains suspicious that Fernando Alonso did know about the deliberate crash plot at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix - but has vowed not to let it affect his future relationship with the Spaniard.

Massa spoke to Brazilian media during a get-together in Sao Paulo on Wednesday and, during the lunch, he said he was in no doubt that Alonso had to have been aware of the plans for Nelson Piquet to crash deliberately in the Singapore event last year to try and help him win.

"In all, he is the least of the problem," Massa was quoted as saying by the Brazilian media about Alonso's involvement in the affair.

"It was the team and Nelson - but Alonso was part of the problem. He knew. We can not know it [but] of course he knew. [It's an] absolute certainty."

The comments created a huge media storm in Brazil ahead of this weekend's grand prix, and Massa and Ferrari moved to clarify the remarks in a statement issued on the Maranello team's official website on Wednesday evening.

In it, Massa said that his comments relate to a feeling he has rather than being based on facts, and he totally respects the FIA's findings from its investigations that Alonso was not aware of the crash plot.

"What I've said is the outcome of a hunch I've had and is not based on any concrete evidence," Massa said in his statement. "The FIA World Council announced that there was no indication that Fernando may have been informed of what had happened and I respect this outcome.

"Obviously I'm very disappointed about what transpired last year in Singapore: I have already said several times what I thought about it and now it's time to close that chapter and to look to the future.

"What is certain is that this episode will not mar in any way the relationship I'll have with Fernando when we will be team-mates."
IMO, Massa is playing mind games to establish that he should be the team's lead driver. "Hey scuderia, don't forget that Alonso screwed us over two years ago."
Old 10-15-2009, 10:55 AM
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How long before Alonso signs a gig promoting this drink?

Old 12-07-2010, 01:04 PM
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The Renault F1 team has agreed to pay substantial damages and court costs to former driver Nelson Piquet and his father for libellous comments relating to the race fix scandal that surrounded the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.

In the wake of the events surrounding the Singapore event, where Piquet was asked to crash deliberately to help team-mate Fernando Alonso win, first emerging, Renault issued a statement claiming that the driver and his father had lied about the circumstances of the weekend and were trying to blackmail team chiefs.

The Piquets were left furious about those allegations and instigated legal action against Renault over its remarks.

Following a hearing in the High Court, Renault has now accepted that its comments were incorrect - and it agreed to cover costs, pay substantial compensation to the Piquets and make sure its remarks are never repeated.

A statement issued by Piquet's lawyer Dominic Crossley said: "Today the Renault Formula 1 Team apologised in the High Court for defaming my two clients, the motor racing father and son Nelson and Nelsinho Piquet.

"This marks the start rather than the end of the long journey they are both taking to correct many of the wrongs that took place during last year's "crashgate" scandal. They were both treated appallingly by Renault F1 when they dared to reveal the scandal to the governing body; and Nelsinho was abused terribly throughout his absurdly short career in F1.

"It is to the immense credit of both my clients that they have refused to be deterred from righting the wrongs despite the ferocity of the attacks and the size of the opponents they have had to confront.

"Nelson Piquet dominated F1 during the early 80s and his reputation as a motorsport legend should remain untarnished by this saga. F1 has been deprived of the best of Nelsinho and it is to its detriment that his talent is now being demonstrated elsewhere.

"Whilst neither of them should ever have had to prove Renault F1's allegations false they are both delighted with the successful conclusion of the case."

Renault issued an official apology in court for what it had said, as it moved to bring an end to the matter.

"On 11th September 2009, Renault F1 Team Limited ("the Team") issued a Press Release, which was repeated on our website, in which we suggested that Nelson Piquet Junior and his father had lied by making false allegations that members of the Team and Nelson Piquet Junior caused a deliberate accident at the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix," said Renault.

"We also suggested that these lies were invented in order to blackmail the Defendant into allowing Mr Piquet Junior to drive for the Team for the remainder of the 2009 season, and he and his father were therefore guilty of a serious criminal offence.

"The Team accepts – as it did before the World Motor Sport Council ("WMSC") of the FIA and as found by the WMSC in its decision of 21 September 2009 – that the allegations made by Nelson Piquet Junior were not false. It also accepts that Mr Piquet Junior and his father did not invent these allegations in order to blackmail the Team.

"As a result, these serious allegations contained in the Press Release were wholly untrue and unfounded, and we withdraw them unequivocally. We would like to apologise unreservedly to Mr Piquet Junior and his father for the distress and embarrassment caused as a result.

"As a mark of the sincerity of our apology and regret, we have agreed to pay them a substantial amount of damages for libel as well as their costs, and have undertaken not to repeat these allegations at any time in the future."
I guess in the end, the Piquets "won", while Flavio and Renault gets egg in their face.
Old 12-07-2010, 06:17 PM
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I fucking hate the Piquets.
Old 12-07-2010, 07:15 PM
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"F1 has been deprived of the best of Nelsinho and it is to its detriment that his talent is now being demonstrated elsewhere."


Give me a break.
Old 12-14-2010, 08:20 AM
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Nelson Piquet Jr. is going NASCAR Camping World Truck Series racing full time, and, after a taste of the Truck Series this season, he’s more than ready.

“The racing, the atmosphere, the whole environment — it really attracted me,” Piquet Jr. said Monday. “I was used to racing in Europe with a cold environment and people difficult to work with. It’s very competitive in NASCAR. You live healthy. There are good people around you. There’s no one stabbing you in the back.”

Piquet Jr. and Kevin Harvick announced Monday that they will team in 2011, Piquet driving one of Kevin Harvick Inc.’s vehicles full time in the Camping World Truck Series.

Further details regarding the program will be released at a later date.

Piquet, 25, formerly drove in Formula One. He ran five NCWTS events for Red Horse Racing this season, finishing sixth in his first race at Daytona International Speedway in February. He also drove in one Nationwide Series race, finishing seventh in Watkins Glen, N.Y.

Piquet is the son for former F1 champion Nelson Piquet. He is from Brazil but is living in Charlotte, N.C. He drove for Renault in F1 competition in 2008 but lost his ride with the team the next season.

He said Monday he is committed to NASCAR and hopes to learn quickly. He said his goals next season are to win a few races and the series' Rookie of the Year award.

“My choice was to go for the best team,” he said. “Obviously, I need to learn a lot before winning a race, but being with such a good team should help me get good results. I think they can help me with the transition from open wheel to NASCAR.”

Piquet said he is more concerned with the technicalities of setting up and racing a truck than with the actual on-track competition.

“The different part for me is setting up the car,” he said. “Knowing what to do is difficult — the track bar, tire pressure, wedge, how the tires work, how the tracks work with temperature dropping and the different kinds of tracks — asphalt and concrete differences. And night and day racing differences.”

He said he hopes to race in Sprint Cup but doesn’t want to outrace himself.

“I never know what’s going to happen the first year,” he said. “Obviously, we’re expecting the best. If things go well the first year and we’re fighting for the championship, maybe we’ll have a chance to race Nationwide. There’s a long-term plan to reach Cup when I’m prepared, but I don’t want to start jumping series and thinking I deserve to be in Cup. I know that’s not how it works.”

At KHI, Piquet will join Ron Hornaday Jr., Elliott Sadler and Harvick as drivers.
Back to square one.
Old 12-20-2010, 10:16 AM
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Hot on the heels of 'crashgate', a new scandal involving Nelson Piquet and his son is set to emerge.

The Brazilian news weekly Veja reports that the racing driver pair are accused of tax evasion and money laundering.

The report said triple world champion Piquet, and his 25-year-old son who is known as Nelsinho Piquet, allegedly laundered income by directing it through the automobile federation of the Brazilian state of Ceara.

Tax was also allegedly evaded by filtering money between 2004 and 2008 into the foreign accounts of son Piquet Jr, who contested 28 F1 races before admitting he crashed his Renault on purpose during the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix.

Former Williams and Benetton driver Piquet, 58, is reported to have confirmed the amount in question is just short of EUR 3 million.

The report said the matter is being investigated by the Brazilian federal police.
uh oh
Old 09-01-2023, 05:23 AM
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https://www.grandprix.com/news/massa...al-threat.html
The former Ferrari driver's lawyers recently sent a letter to the sport's authorities alleging their inaction in 2008 cost him the world championship over the 'crashgate' affair.

Now 42, the legal action was triggered by recent comments by former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone, although the 92-year-old Briton claims he doesn't remember making the comments.

But Massa is also relying on never-released footage of the late former race director Charlie Whiting, who presumably made similar comments about knowing about the deliberate crash before the 2008 season had ended.

According to the Associated Press, F1 and the FIA responded to Brazilian Massa's first letter by asking for more time, given that so many staff members have been on vacation for the summer break.

Massa's lawyers have now replied, rejecting the argument and giving Formula 1's authorities only until the end of the week to satisfactorily respond.

In the new letter, Massa's lawyers claim the two F1 bodies deliberately ignored the misconduct (at the 2008 Singapore GP) which deprived him of this title.
Who knows where this will end up.
Old 09-01-2023, 09:58 AM
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....with some soured friendships I'd assume
Old 12-19-2023, 07:28 AM
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https://www.grandprix.com/news/massa-may-succeed-in-crashgate-mission-says-todt.html

Felipe Massa may well be successful in his quest for justice some 15 years after Formula 1's disgraceful 'crashgate' scandal of 2008.

That is the view of former FIA president Jean Todt, whose predecessor Max Mosley was in charge when Renault bosses conspired to steal victory at Singapore in 2008 by ordering Nelson Piquet to deliberately crash.

According to Bernie Ecclestone, Max Mosley, my predecessor, and Charlie Whiting, who was the race director of Formula 1 at the time, were in the know from the very beginning, Todt, also the former Ferrari boss whose son Nicholas was Massa's manager, told the French sports daily L'Equipe.

The 77-year-old insists he had no such similar knowledge about the scandal when he became FIA president.

I was not informed about this, Todt said. But the completely new fact, if it is true and can be verified, is that the regulatory body that runs the championship knew about it.

Massa, who claims he should be 2008 world champion rather than Lewis Hamilton, is threatening legal action against the FIA and F1 if the 'crashgate' wrongs are not now corrected.

Unfortunately, Charlie and Max have passed away, Todt said.

"The rule at the FIA has always been that results of the world championship must be ratified before December 31 and then we never retract them.

But in the case of Singapore 2008, the facts were not revealed until a year later and the sanctions imposed by the FIA before my arrival were annulled by the court in Paris, he added.

Finding out that the federation knew the truth before this famous December 31 could change things.
Old 03-12-2024, 11:40 AM
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https://racer.com/2024/03/11/massa-s...08-title-loss/

Felipe Massa has filed a lawsuit seeking over $80million in damages from the FIA, Formula 1, and former F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone over the 2008 Crashgate scandal.

Renault driver Nelson Piquet Jr was ordered to crash deliberately during the 2008 Singapore Grand Prix in order to help Fernando Alonso’s strategy, with the Spaniard going on to win a race Massa had been leading. In the resulting safety car period, Massa suffered a pit stop issue and finished outside the points, while title rival Lewis Hamilton came home third to score six points.

The scandal only became public a year later, and with the FIA statutes stating a result can’t be changed following the end-of-year prize giving ceremony, the result remained unchanged. However, comments attributed to Ecclestone last year suggested he and the FIA were aware of allegations relating to it before the end of the 2008 season.
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