GP of Brazil 2008
10-31-2008, 01:22 PM
#1
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GP of Brazil 2008
Friday Practice 1:
Last race of the year! Title on the line!
POS DRIVER NATIONALITY ENTRANT TIME
1. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:12.305
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:12.495
3. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:12.507
4. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:12.874
5. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:12.925
6. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:13.061
7. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:13.298
8. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:13.378
9. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:13.426
10. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:13.466
11. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:13.600
12. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:13.621
13. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:13.649
14. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:13.676
15. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:13.766
16. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:13.806
17. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:13.836
18. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:13.861
19. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:14.704
20. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:14.821
1. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:12.305
2. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:12.495
3. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:12.507
4. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:12.874
5. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:12.925
6. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:13.061
7. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:13.298
8. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:13.378
9. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:13.426
10. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:13.466
11. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:13.600
12. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:13.621
13. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:13.649
14. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:13.676
15. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:13.766
16. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:13.806
17. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:13.836
18. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:13.861
19. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:14.704
20. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:14.821
10-31-2008, 01:25 PM
#2
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My prediction:
Well, as much as I don't like Hamilton, I dislike Ferrari even more, especially with all their cheating the last couple of years.
Massa to win, but Hamilton's podium clinches the championship?
Well, as much as I don't like Hamilton, I dislike Ferrari even more, especially with all their cheating the last couple of years.
Massa to win, but Hamilton's podium clinches the championship?
10-31-2008, 01:43 PM
#3
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Thread Starter
Practice 2:
1. Fernando Alonso Spain Renault 1:12.296
2. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:12.353
3. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:12.435
4. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:12.600
5. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:12.650
6. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:12.687
7. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:12.703
8. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:12.761
9. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:12.827
10. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:12.886
11. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:12.896
12. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:12.971
13. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:13.038
14. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:13.041
15. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:13.213
16. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:13.221
17. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:13.273
18. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:13.341
19. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:13.428
20. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:13.691
2. Felipe Massa Brazil Ferrari 1:12.353
3. Jarno Trulli Italy Toyota 1:12.435
4. Kimi Raikkonen Finland Ferrari 1:12.600
5. Mark Webber Australia Red Bull-Renault 1:12.650
6. Sebastian Vettel Germany Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:12.687
7. Nelson Piquet Brazil Renault 1:12.703
8. Nico Rosberg Germany Williams-Toyota 1:12.761
9. Lewis Hamilton Britain McLaren-Mercedes 1:12.827
10. Kazuki Nakajima Japan Williams-Toyota 1:12.886
11. David Coulthard Britain Red Bull-Renault 1:12.896
12. Robert Kubica Poland BMW Sauber 1:12.971
13. Nick Heidfeld Germany BMW Sauber 1:13.038
14. Timo Glock Germany Toyota 1:13.041
15. Heikki Kovalainen Finland McLaren-Mercedes 1:13.213
16. Rubens Barrichello Brazil Honda 1:13.221
17. Sebastien Bourdais France Toro Rosso-Ferrari 1:13.273
18. Jenson Button Britain Honda 1:13.341
19. Adrian Sutil Germany Force India-Ferrari 1:13.428
20. Giancarlo Fisichella Italy Force India-Ferrari 1:13.691
11-01-2008, 10:28 PM
#7
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
It's going to be a good one.
Forecast: 60% Chance of Rain!!!!
Forecast: 60% Chance of Rain!!!!
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11-02-2008, 09:31 AM
#9
Senior Moderator
11-02-2008, 01:08 PM
#13
Big Block go VROOOM!
11-02-2008, 01:24 PM
#14
a better indicator would be if there was anyone else out on dry's, and compare their pace on the final lap.
What a great race though. I'm surprised the Brazilian fans didn't rip that place apart.
I must say in the interview Massa was very professional in dealing with that defeat etc.
What a great race though. I'm surprised the Brazilian fans didn't rip that place apart.
I must say in the interview Massa was very professional in dealing with that defeat etc.
11-02-2008, 01:56 PM
#16
Senior Moderator
Massa... Came down to the last corner last lap. How come they never replayed the last corner pass????
11-02-2008, 02:14 PM
#18
F1 cart racer
wtf was wrong with glock? lost all that time in that lap when he was flying the lap before? WTH.... i smell conspiracy....i almost cried when i saw the last corner
11-02-2008, 02:32 PM
#20
F1 cart racer
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! WTF!!!!
for Hamilton to win the title.
11-02-2008, 06:20 PM
#22
so looking at the lap times, for the last lap both Toyota's turned in 1:44s laps while every other car on the track was at least 10 seconds faster. Sutil had the next closest laptime at 1:33.840, and Vettle turned in the fastest lap of the group at 1:25.984, so either the Toyotas have zero grip or Toyota did a favor for Mclaren.
11-02-2008, 06:33 PM
#23
Big Block go VROOOM!
They stated on the TV coverage that the Toyotas were the only cars that decided to try and stay out on dry tires. If you look at footage of the last lap Hamilton was sliding all over the place on intermediates. It's not at all out of place for Glock to have lost 18 seconds on drys.
On a side note, ESPN is running "Lewis Hamilton winds Formula 1 Grand Prix of Brazil" in their Bottom Line feed. Gee ESPN, you've only had six hours to come up with a correct headline.
On a side note, ESPN is running "Lewis Hamilton winds Formula 1 Grand Prix of Brazil" in their Bottom Line feed. Gee ESPN, you've only had six hours to come up with a correct headline.
11-03-2008, 09:05 AM
#24
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
I'm pretty happy with how things turned out. Although seriously, that was one poor race on Hamilton and McLaren's part. It's hard to think of a world champion that would choke so bad in the final race, and that is exactly what they did.Back on my favorite topic, the FIA conspiracy favoring Ferrari. Remember how Massa gained a dubious point at Fuji due to the "racing incident" contact between Massa and Bourdais? That extra point could have been the decider yesterday and could have handed the championship to Massa. But at Interlagos, there were no penalties called for either the Trulli-Bourdais incident or the Rosberg-Coulthard incident. Where is the consistency? It's just one big joke. Until there is some changes to the stewardship, there will continue to be a lack of confidence with the race officials.
11-03-2008, 10:26 AM
#25
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Thread Starter
Very interesting:
So while it was all pins and needles for the tv viewers, it was probably a lot more calmer in Hamilton's cockpit.
McLaren CEO Martin Whitmarsh says the team told Lewis Hamilton to focus on catching Timo Glock and forget about chasing Sebastian Vettel, as he frantically pursued a fifth place finish to secure his first world championship title in the final laps of the Brazilian Grand Prix.
Hamilton had to finish fifth to win the title, but lost the position to Sebastian Vettel in slippery conditions with three laps to go.
But while all the other front-runners stopped for intermediate tyres, Glock gambled on sticking with dries, and quickly lost ground to Hamilton and Vettel on the last lap as the rain got heavier.
"We knew we couldn't take any risks," Whitmarsh told ITV. "We couldn't take any risks with Vettel, he is a young charger, we were saying to Lewis just take it easy.
"We knew we were racing Glock. We came here for fifth place, we could see Glock, we had the GPS and we could see Glock coming back towards us. We had the conviction, that we were going to catch him.
"But then you start to worry, 'Is it raining as hard as we think it is?', 'Are we going to catch him?' staring at the predictions and wondering whether we had got this wrong."
Whitmarsh added that the McLaren pitwall was adamant that Glock was the target.
Hamilton eventually passed the Toyota driver on the run up the hill in an incredible dash to the flag.
"Obviously we told Lewis, don't worry about Vettel, Glock's on dry tyres, you are going to find him in that last lap, but you know, until you do it, you haven't done it!" he said. "Lewis kept his cool.
"I'm sure he was much cooler than the rest of us on the pitwall anyway."
Hamilton had to finish fifth to win the title, but lost the position to Sebastian Vettel in slippery conditions with three laps to go.
But while all the other front-runners stopped for intermediate tyres, Glock gambled on sticking with dries, and quickly lost ground to Hamilton and Vettel on the last lap as the rain got heavier.
"We knew we couldn't take any risks," Whitmarsh told ITV. "We couldn't take any risks with Vettel, he is a young charger, we were saying to Lewis just take it easy.
"We knew we were racing Glock. We came here for fifth place, we could see Glock, we had the GPS and we could see Glock coming back towards us. We had the conviction, that we were going to catch him.
"But then you start to worry, 'Is it raining as hard as we think it is?', 'Are we going to catch him?' staring at the predictions and wondering whether we had got this wrong."
Whitmarsh added that the McLaren pitwall was adamant that Glock was the target.
Hamilton eventually passed the Toyota driver on the run up the hill in an incredible dash to the flag.
"Obviously we told Lewis, don't worry about Vettel, Glock's on dry tyres, you are going to find him in that last lap, but you know, until you do it, you haven't done it!" he said. "Lewis kept his cool.
"I'm sure he was much cooler than the rest of us on the pitwall anyway."
11-05-2008, 07:26 AM
#26
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The only reason Glock was ahead of Vettel and Hamilton was because he (and Trulli) opted to stay out on slicks when the rain started and everybody else pitted for intermediates. If the heavy rain had held off for one more minute I'm sure Massa would be champion now.
As for the conspiracy theory: My understanding is that there are different stewards at every race. That explains the inconsistency. F1 needs to hire fulltime stewards to travel with the teams so penalties are evenhanded and consistent. Although I'm sure people will complain that they aren't fair either.
As for the conspiracy theory: My understanding is that there are different stewards at every race. That explains the inconsistency. F1 needs to hire fulltime stewards to travel with the teams so penalties are evenhanded and consistent. Although I'm sure people will complain that they aren't fair either.
11-11-2008, 11:40 AM
#27
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Thread Starter
Ferrari's Massa won his home grand prix and was poised for championship victory before Hamilton overtook Timo Glock on the final bend to finish in the fifth place he needed to clinch the title.
"I broke the television, I must tell the truth," Montezemolo said at a Ferrari event in Mugello on Sunday.
"When a television breaks it makes a terrible bang. My daughter in the other room was given an awful fright. Luckily we had another television so I was able to watch the podium ceremony, which I enjoyed."
"I reckon that in the history of F1, we have never seen a world championship decided on the last bend of the last lap of the last grand prix," said Montezemolo, who saw Ferrari driver Kimi Raikkonen steal the title last season in the final race.
"Miracles, when they happen, usually only happen once. I say that because last year was a miracle. A repeat is usually impossible. In Brazil, with Massa, we were in the process of producing another miracle."
Montezemolo had words of praise for Raikkonen. The Finn was out of the running for the title this year but helped Ferrari to retain the constructors' championship and spurred on Massa.
"Kimi has been a world champion right up to the last race this year. He has contributed to two constructors' titles," he said. "His points were fundamental. With all respect for Lewis Hamilton ... I'm happy with my drivers, the best pair in the world."
"I broke the television, I must tell the truth," Montezemolo said at a Ferrari event in Mugello on Sunday.
"When a television breaks it makes a terrible bang. My daughter in the other room was given an awful fright. Luckily we had another television so I was able to watch the podium ceremony, which I enjoyed."
"I reckon that in the history of F1, we have never seen a world championship decided on the last bend of the last lap of the last grand prix," said Montezemolo, who saw Ferrari driver Kimi Raikkonen steal the title last season in the final race.
"Miracles, when they happen, usually only happen once. I say that because last year was a miracle. A repeat is usually impossible. In Brazil, with Massa, we were in the process of producing another miracle."
Montezemolo had words of praise for Raikkonen. The Finn was out of the running for the title this year but helped Ferrari to retain the constructors' championship and spurred on Massa.
"Kimi has been a world champion right up to the last race this year. He has contributed to two constructors' titles," he said. "His points were fundamental. With all respect for Lewis Hamilton ... I'm happy with my drivers, the best pair in the world."
11-12-2008, 01:30 PM
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The last lap, premature celebration by Massa's entourage in the Feerrari garage, and their reaction to the news that Hamilton passed Glock was the absolute best theater in all of motorsports in 2008.
As for conspiracy theories, and full time stewards, Hamilton clipped the chicane (in Spa?) to pass Massa, gave back the position, was told it was acceptable, but was then penalized. That's calls into question the fairness and interpretation of rules.
As for conspiracy theories, and full time stewards, Hamilton clipped the chicane (in Spa?) to pass Massa, gave back the position, was told it was acceptable, but was then penalized. That's calls into question the fairness and interpretation of rules.
11-12-2008, 04:45 PM
#29
Big Block go VROOOM!
"We knew we were racing Glock. We came here for fifth place, we could see Glock, we had the GPS and we could see Glock coming back towards us."
Anyone 'splain?
11-13-2008, 01:37 PM
#31
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:yup: All the cars have location sensors. Often times we are given a graphic of the map with little dots that are moving representing the locations of the top drivers.
11-13-2008, 02:25 PM
#32
Big Block go VROOOM!
I always just assumed the car location info was based on timing/scoring transponders and loops embedded in the track. I guess I have the North American way of doing things burned too deeply into my brain.
05-22-2023, 09:39 AM
#33
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Felipe Massa is pushing ahead with plans to sue Formula 1 authorities in order to be declared 2008 world champion.
Lewis Hamilton's first world title has always been under a cloud due to the 'crashgate' scandal - where Fernando Alonso won the Singapore GP after his Renault teammate Nelson Piquet deliberately crashed.
"I spoke about it at the time with Ferrari and with the team's lawyers at Maranello and they told me that there was nothing they could do," Massa said earlier this year.
However, former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone subsequently admitted that he actually knew Piquet's crash had been deliberate - long before the scandal broke publicly a year later.
"Back then, there was a rule that a world championship classification was untouchable after the FIA awards ceremony at the end of the year," Ecclestone said.
"So Hamilton was presented with the cup and everything was fine."
Massa, now 42 and - like Piquet jr - racing in the Brazilian Stock Car series, thinks that in light of Ecclestone's admission, he could launch legal proceedings and win.
"In other sports, titles have been revoked when things like this have been discovered, so why not in F1?" he said.
"After Bernie Ecclestone spoke about it, we are trying to understand - legally - if there is any chance of looking at it again," Massa told the Brazilian publication Esportelandia.
"Bernie said that he and the president of the FIA in 2008 and everyone else knew and didn't want to do anything about it so the Formula 1 name was not hurt," he added.
"I was totally wronged by what happened in a stolen race. What Bernie said made me lift my antenna and go after justice.
"I'm not a lawyer, but everyone knows I was clearly wronged and I think I am right to fight for justice to make it right.
"It wasn't an engine that broke down, it was a stolen race - a manipulation, which is a very serious thing. Sure, there was an engine that also broke, but that's part of the time.
"This was a manipulation. The end of the race was completely different to what it should have been."
Massa said there are even precedents in Formula 1 for similar incidents - like what happened with McLaren in 2007 over the 'spygate' scandal.
"In 2007, when McLaren took Ferrari's project and copied the car, they were disqualified from the championship. They were punished for what happened," said the Brazilian.
"In my case, there was no punishment. But in football and many other sports, when things happened, the results were corrected."
Lewis Hamilton's first world title has always been under a cloud due to the 'crashgate' scandal - where Fernando Alonso won the Singapore GP after his Renault teammate Nelson Piquet deliberately crashed.
"I spoke about it at the time with Ferrari and with the team's lawyers at Maranello and they told me that there was nothing they could do," Massa said earlier this year.
However, former F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone subsequently admitted that he actually knew Piquet's crash had been deliberate - long before the scandal broke publicly a year later.
"Back then, there was a rule that a world championship classification was untouchable after the FIA awards ceremony at the end of the year," Ecclestone said.
"So Hamilton was presented with the cup and everything was fine."
Massa, now 42 and - like Piquet jr - racing in the Brazilian Stock Car series, thinks that in light of Ecclestone's admission, he could launch legal proceedings and win.
"In other sports, titles have been revoked when things like this have been discovered, so why not in F1?" he said.
"After Bernie Ecclestone spoke about it, we are trying to understand - legally - if there is any chance of looking at it again," Massa told the Brazilian publication Esportelandia.
"Bernie said that he and the president of the FIA in 2008 and everyone else knew and didn't want to do anything about it so the Formula 1 name was not hurt," he added.
"I was totally wronged by what happened in a stolen race. What Bernie said made me lift my antenna and go after justice.
"I'm not a lawyer, but everyone knows I was clearly wronged and I think I am right to fight for justice to make it right.
"It wasn't an engine that broke down, it was a stolen race - a manipulation, which is a very serious thing. Sure, there was an engine that also broke, but that's part of the time.
"This was a manipulation. The end of the race was completely different to what it should have been."
Massa said there are even precedents in Formula 1 for similar incidents - like what happened with McLaren in 2007 over the 'spygate' scandal.
"In 2007, when McLaren took Ferrari's project and copied the car, they were disqualified from the championship. They were punished for what happened," said the Brazilian.
"In my case, there was no punishment. But in football and many other sports, when things happened, the results were corrected."
Still can't believe Ecclestone is allowed back in F1.
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