F1... long season
#321
Big Block go VROOOM!
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but here's an idea for cost reduction. Take the "spec dimensions" idea in the new engine rules and apply it to the barge boards and front wing end plates. That would likely eliminate a hell of a lot of aerodynamic development hours.
#322
Race Director
Originally Posted by Billiam
Apologies if this has already been discussed, but here's an idea for cost reduction. Take the "spec dimensions" idea in the new engine rules and apply it to the barge boards and front wing end plates. That would likely eliminate a hell of a lot of aerodynamic development hours.
#323
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Great....
Michael Schumacher can help steer Ferrari to a sixth consecutive constructors' Formula One world championship at his home German Grand Prix this weekend.
If he and team-mate Rubens Barrichello finish one-two at Hockenheim, even clean-sweep victories for Renault to the end of '04 could not usurp the Italian team.
If he and team-mate Rubens Barrichello finish one-two at Hockenheim, even clean-sweep victories for Renault to the end of '04 could not usurp the Italian team.
#325
Ok... here is funny story that happened while watching the MotoGP race last weekend. Max Biaggi(Camel Yellow bike) and Alex Barros (Repsol Orange, White, & Black) are racing for the lead with a few laps left. Speed TV breaks for comercial, race is back on but all of a sudden what appears to be a Yellow bike is trailing the Orange bike but the commentators are talking as if Max is still in the lead, I'm wondering when did Alex pass Max and what the hell are the commentators watching!!! Turns out that my Tivo recorded a SAT picture with the colors all mixed up... YELLOW was showing up as ORANGE and WHITE (looking like the Repsol Colors of Alex) and Orange and White were showing up as YELLOW (Max's colors). I'm yelling at the TV, what the hell is going on!!!
#326
Senior Moderator
Part of the reason F1 is so intriguing is the level or technology in the race cars. These proposed changes take out some of that technology.
I'd like to see the cars get faster not slower. With increased speed comes increased safety.
I'd like to see the cars get faster not slower. With increased speed comes increased safety.
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I am sure there are some new safety improvements going on after Ralfs accident, due in fact to the speed. I guess someone had to be the test dummy. Basically safety does not come until after an incident.
I too would like to see increased speeds, although it seems they couldn't go much faster on some of the tracks, but where does increased safety come from?
I too would like to see increased speeds, although it seems they couldn't go much faster on some of the tracks, but where does increased safety come from?
#328
Originally Posted by domn
Part of the reason F1 is so intriguing is the level or technology in the race cars. These proposed changes take out some of that technology.
I'd like to see the cars get faster not slower. With increased speed comes increased safety.
I'd like to see the cars get faster not slower. With increased speed comes increased safety.
I don't know Domn,
Technology has a funny way of popping up. To make a tire last an entire race distance and be competitive takes a lot of technology. To make a V8 produce the power of today, takes a lot of technology. To make up for the lost of Aero grip via mechanical grip, takes technology. To make an engine last 2 race weekends and come to the level of today's times, takes technology.
And I don't think all the above will happen in a single season but at the same time I don't think today's track records will be set in stone, never to be beaten. The times will drop again, with the above rule changes... why? Technology.
#330
Race Director
Originally Posted by fdl
I'd like to see less restrictions as well. Let the cars go as fast as possible.
#331
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DEVO
I don't know Domn,
Technology has a funny way of popping up. To make a tire last an entire race distance and be competitive takes a lot of technology. To make a V8 produce the power of today, takes a lot of technology. To make up for the lost of Aero grip via mechanical grip, takes technology. To make an engine last 2 race weekends and come to the level of today's times, takes technology.
And I don't think all the above will happen in a single season but at the same time I don't think today's track records will be set in stone, never to be beaten. The times will drop again, with the above rule changes... why? Technology.
Technology has a funny way of popping up. To make a tire last an entire race distance and be competitive takes a lot of technology. To make a V8 produce the power of today, takes a lot of technology. To make up for the lost of Aero grip via mechanical grip, takes technology. To make an engine last 2 race weekends and come to the level of today's times, takes technology.
And I don't think all the above will happen in a single season but at the same time I don't think today's track records will be set in stone, never to be beaten. The times will drop again, with the above rule changes... why? Technology.
A spending cap would be more fitting IMO. Minardi spends 50 mil a year or whatever and Ferrari 300, lets have a 100 mill dollar spending limit. May be hard to enforce but I'm sure they could figure it out.
- 1 standard wind tunnel shared between teams with a set amount of hours.
- Set track testing
- One Tire manf
#333
Big Block go VROOOM!
Originally Posted by biker
You gotta have some rules - like the size of an engine, but after that yeah, there should be few restrictions.
<Life of Brian Accent> Blessed are the Big Blocks! </Life of Brian Accent>
#334
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domn, in the last race(s), they reportedly have been reaching 5g in curves. I don't know how much faster it can get before it becomes physically dangerous. Remember Cart at Texas Motor Speedway?
#335
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by sauceman
domn, in the last race(s), they reportedly have been reaching 5g in curves. I don't know how much faster it can get before it becomes physically dangerous. Remember Cart at Texas Motor Speedway?
Was'nt that Chicago? Anyway drivers were complaining of vertigo right? But wasn't that due to the banking or was it the speeds or a combination of both?
Before the split Indy cars were well over 230MPH at Indy and there were'nt any complaints.
#336
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They were pulling too many vertical G's at a constant rate. You may be right about the location though. I remember the banking was steep, and that was probably the cause for the high vertical G's in addition to the lateral G's. It was making them lose consciousness, all the blood went to their feet instead of their head. The guys were stepping out of their race cars, and if they were not outright blind, they all except for one were not able to stand up, they were so dizzy.
At 5-6g, it's enough to make a regular person lose consciousness. If it becomes like this curve after curve, even a well-trained F1 driver can run into problems. The last thing you want is a driver just flashing out while taking a 150-200mph curve like Eau Rouge or 300R.
At 5-6g, it's enough to make a regular person lose consciousness. If it becomes like this curve after curve, even a well-trained F1 driver can run into problems. The last thing you want is a driver just flashing out while taking a 150-200mph curve like Eau Rouge or 300R.
#339
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Originally Posted by Dan Martin
Isn't it the 130R at Suzuka? Either way I like watching that race just to see how banzai the drivers are when they take that corner.
#341
Big Block go VROOOM!
I've personally run 50 consecutive 220+ mph laps at Texas without any problems.
But then I turn off the computer and grab a beer out of the fridge. Now that I think of it, I should see what sort of G's the telemetry from the game shows.
But then I turn off the computer and grab a beer out of the fridge. Now that I think of it, I should see what sort of G's the telemetry from the game shows.
#342
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by domn
Then there's only one solution. Since F1 drivers have veri little to do with the outcome of races anymore, its time they were replaced with robots.
Some say Shumey is one anyway
Some say Shumey is one anyway
#344
Big Block go VROOOM!
Didn't one of the major racing magazines run an article over the winter where they asked engineers from Williams to design a "paper" F1 car with virtually no restricions? IIRC, the people involved all basically mentioned the same thing: no human could drive it.
#345
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Originally Posted by Billiam
Didn't one of the major racing magazines run an article over the winter where they asked engineers from Williams to design a "paper" F1 car with virtually no restricions? IIRC, the people involved all basically mentioned the same thing: no human could drive it.
http://www.acura-tsx.com/forums/show...light=Williams
Unfortunately, the pictures are gone, and I believe the article was a scan. You'd have to ask soopa to re-host it.
#346
Race Director
Like todays top of the line fighter jets, F1 technology is getting to the point that it's beyond normal human control.
A modern jet can pull enough G-forces that the pilot can black out. Maybe that's what's needed as a restriction measure in F1 - a G-force sensor connected to the engine system that when the car approaches let's say 3 Gs, it starts cutting engine power .
A modern jet can pull enough G-forces that the pilot can black out. Maybe that's what's needed as a restriction measure in F1 - a G-force sensor connected to the engine system that when the car approaches let's say 3 Gs, it starts cutting engine power .
#347
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Originally Posted by biker
Like todays top of the line fighter jets, F1 technology is getting to the point that it's beyond normal human control.
A modern jet can pull enough G-forces that the pilot can black out. Maybe that's what's needed as a restriction measure in F1 - a G-force sensor connected to the engine system that when the car approaches let's say 3 Gs, it starts cutting engine power .
A modern jet can pull enough G-forces that the pilot can black out. Maybe that's what's needed as a restriction measure in F1 - a G-force sensor connected to the engine system that when the car approaches let's say 3 Gs, it starts cutting engine power .
Remember this nice feature ? Think Tyrell's 'fancar' system would add more downforce to todays F1 cars ?
#348
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DEVO
It was Texas (CART), and they cancelled the race. Chicago, from what I could remember is a flat track so highly unlikely that there was a g-force issue.
Yeah, it was Texas, because I was there. I remember when all the drivers and owners huddled in the infield garage for a meeting and when they came out, it was announced that the race was canceled. Doesn't the IRL run at Texas now? I wonder what the speeds are with the IRL cars in Texas.
The defunct Chicago track is similar to the Milwaukee Mile, very flat.
#349
Senior Moderator
Honda and British American Racing have agreed to extend their partnership for another three years but the engine manufacturer stopped short of saying it will buy a majority stake in the Formula One team.
Honda will continue to supply the team with engines through 2007 and the new deal includes a joint chassis development programme, integrating the automaker even further into the F1 team's operations.
"In order to consistently win races in the future, we have made a new multi-year contract with BAR in which we will supply engines and conduct joint development of chassis technology," said Takanobu Ito, managing director of Honda Motor Company. "We will continue to make an utmost effort in this F1 challenge and ask for your continued support as we strive to fulfil the expectations of Honda motorsports fans worldwide."
"When I started with the team there were separate programmes going on in Japan and England," said BAR-Honda boss David Richards. "We have formed a far closer working relationship with a number of Honda engineers actually with us at the factory."
Honda will continue to supply the team with engines through 2007 and the new deal includes a joint chassis development programme, integrating the automaker even further into the F1 team's operations.
"In order to consistently win races in the future, we have made a new multi-year contract with BAR in which we will supply engines and conduct joint development of chassis technology," said Takanobu Ito, managing director of Honda Motor Company. "We will continue to make an utmost effort in this F1 challenge and ask for your continued support as we strive to fulfil the expectations of Honda motorsports fans worldwide."
"When I started with the team there were separate programmes going on in Japan and England," said BAR-Honda boss David Richards. "We have formed a far closer working relationship with a number of Honda engineers actually with us at the factory."
#351
Senior Moderator
JB, BAR, Honda
Great effort. What could have happened if he started from P3?
Great effort. What could have happened if he started from P3?
#352
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Just saw the replay on Speed last night. The JB pass over Alonson was a sweet piece. Like the commentators said, Renault<s straight line speed is pretty surprising. They have a much bigger engine package than what was previously estimated.
#353
actually the commentators were saying it was more like better acceleration than straight line speed.
thank god for Alonso and Button they made an otherwise boring race very intresting.
thats how F1 racing should be !
wheel to wheel and on the track !
Ernie
thank god for Alonso and Button they made an otherwise boring race very intresting.
thats how F1 racing should be !
wheel to wheel and on the track !
Ernie
#354
Originally Posted by kurt_bradley
Let me make sure I'm not crazy: It's 1:45 and no one has posted about this morning's race? Am I the only one that got up this morning to watch it?
Yeah, another MS win.
#355
Originally Posted by Dan Martin
I want to see all of the teams from F1 entered into Junkyard Wars and have them race whatever they build.
Ernie
#356
Senior Moderator
Button makes shocking move to Williams
TSN.ca Staff
8/6/2004
The Formula One "Silly Season" took a turn for the absurd on Friday following Jenson Button's shocking announcement that he was leaving BAR-Honda to rejoin BMW-Williams in 2005.
The move has delighted Williams owner Frank Williams, angered BAR-Honda boss David Richards and thrown the revolving driver's carousel into complete chaos.
"There has been a long-term relationship between the BMW WilliamsF1 Team and Jenson," said team owner Frank Williams. "We have maintained that relationship until the present day, and I am delighted that one of the most talented drivers in Formula One has accepted the opportunity to return to the team."
BAR-Honda boss David Richards says he's "absolutely astounded" to hear Button was leaving the team at the end of the season and he's threatened legal action to keep the young Brit from moving to rival Williams.
"Jenson is under contract with BAR for 2005, since we took up an option on his services only last month," said Richards. "At no time during the last few months has Jenson expressed anything other than his desire to continue working with BAR to achieve our collective goal of winning the World Championship."
In an interview with BBC Radio, Frank Williams says he received a call from Button's management team to inform them that the driver would be available in 2005 after exercising an option in his contract which allows him to leave if Honda failed to provide a long-term commitment to the team.
"[Button] has been under option to his present team BAR for some time," Williams told the BBC. "The option expired recently and Button's management called us to say that the option was no longer valid and would we be interested in his services - and of course I reacted as you might expect me to.
"I think [BAR] probably wanted to take up the option but whether they've executed or not will come out in due course," added Williams.
At the German Grand Prix, Honda announced an extension of their partnership with BAR until the end of 2007. However, the manufacturer added they would re-assess their commitment to F1 if proposed new rule changes are introduced to the sport in 2005 and 2006.
Richards believes the move is part of a bigger hidden agenda.
"About 36 hours ago we had a letter suggesting that on a very slim technicality the option (on Button) wasn't viable based upon Honda's commitment to us," he told BBC Radio.
"Obviously, this is something that is quite ridiculous and we will challenge it. You can't go through life taking advantage of legal technicalities - you have to look at the essence of an agreement."
Richards says his next priority is to address the many questions BAR-Honda employees have following the shocking news.
"I have got 400 people (at Brackley) who have worked their socks off night and day and then the guy who gets all the credit and drinks the champagne turns around and ditches them," he tells The Times newspaper.
The move marks a return for Button to the team which gave him his Formula One start in 2000. However, despite an impressive rookie campaign, he was pushed aside to make room for Juan Pablo Montoya.
After two less than spectacular seasons with Benetton/Renault, Button joined BAR-Honda last year. This year, he has emerged as the team leader in the wake of Jacques Villeneuve's departure and has been considered a legitimate challenger to Michael Schumacher on several F1 weekends this year.
"I am very pleased that I had the option to re-join the BMW WilliamsF1 Team where my Formula One career started," said Button. "I have every confidence that the massive investment in resources and the depth of talent at WilliamsF1 and BMW provides the best platform for my future ambitions to be a World Champion."
If Button's move is allowed, he will team with Australian Mark Webber at BMW-Williams next season.
Button's unexpected move will now force others to jockey for position with one of the top teams, which had been considered off limits prior to Thursday's announcement.
BAR-Honda currently have Japanese driver Takuma Sato under contract for next season.
Button's decision severely limits Jacques Villeneuve's chances of returning to Formula One next season with a top flight team. He had been considered a candidate for a return to BMW-Williams. It's highly unlikely he would be considered for the opening with BAR-Honda, a team he left on less than amicable terms last year.
Villeneuve was criticized by team boss David Richards for his high salary which he said limited the team's development resources. In the end, the Canadian opted not to race in the season ending Japanese Grand Prix after it became clear the team would sign Sato over Villeneuve for 2004.
TSN.ca Staff
8/6/2004
The Formula One "Silly Season" took a turn for the absurd on Friday following Jenson Button's shocking announcement that he was leaving BAR-Honda to rejoin BMW-Williams in 2005.
The move has delighted Williams owner Frank Williams, angered BAR-Honda boss David Richards and thrown the revolving driver's carousel into complete chaos.
"There has been a long-term relationship between the BMW WilliamsF1 Team and Jenson," said team owner Frank Williams. "We have maintained that relationship until the present day, and I am delighted that one of the most talented drivers in Formula One has accepted the opportunity to return to the team."
BAR-Honda boss David Richards says he's "absolutely astounded" to hear Button was leaving the team at the end of the season and he's threatened legal action to keep the young Brit from moving to rival Williams.
"Jenson is under contract with BAR for 2005, since we took up an option on his services only last month," said Richards. "At no time during the last few months has Jenson expressed anything other than his desire to continue working with BAR to achieve our collective goal of winning the World Championship."
In an interview with BBC Radio, Frank Williams says he received a call from Button's management team to inform them that the driver would be available in 2005 after exercising an option in his contract which allows him to leave if Honda failed to provide a long-term commitment to the team.
"[Button] has been under option to his present team BAR for some time," Williams told the BBC. "The option expired recently and Button's management called us to say that the option was no longer valid and would we be interested in his services - and of course I reacted as you might expect me to.
"I think [BAR] probably wanted to take up the option but whether they've executed or not will come out in due course," added Williams.
At the German Grand Prix, Honda announced an extension of their partnership with BAR until the end of 2007. However, the manufacturer added they would re-assess their commitment to F1 if proposed new rule changes are introduced to the sport in 2005 and 2006.
Richards believes the move is part of a bigger hidden agenda.
"About 36 hours ago we had a letter suggesting that on a very slim technicality the option (on Button) wasn't viable based upon Honda's commitment to us," he told BBC Radio.
"Obviously, this is something that is quite ridiculous and we will challenge it. You can't go through life taking advantage of legal technicalities - you have to look at the essence of an agreement."
Richards says his next priority is to address the many questions BAR-Honda employees have following the shocking news.
"I have got 400 people (at Brackley) who have worked their socks off night and day and then the guy who gets all the credit and drinks the champagne turns around and ditches them," he tells The Times newspaper.
The move marks a return for Button to the team which gave him his Formula One start in 2000. However, despite an impressive rookie campaign, he was pushed aside to make room for Juan Pablo Montoya.
After two less than spectacular seasons with Benetton/Renault, Button joined BAR-Honda last year. This year, he has emerged as the team leader in the wake of Jacques Villeneuve's departure and has been considered a legitimate challenger to Michael Schumacher on several F1 weekends this year.
"I am very pleased that I had the option to re-join the BMW WilliamsF1 Team where my Formula One career started," said Button. "I have every confidence that the massive investment in resources and the depth of talent at WilliamsF1 and BMW provides the best platform for my future ambitions to be a World Champion."
If Button's move is allowed, he will team with Australian Mark Webber at BMW-Williams next season.
Button's unexpected move will now force others to jockey for position with one of the top teams, which had been considered off limits prior to Thursday's announcement.
BAR-Honda currently have Japanese driver Takuma Sato under contract for next season.
Button's decision severely limits Jacques Villeneuve's chances of returning to Formula One next season with a top flight team. He had been considered a candidate for a return to BMW-Williams. It's highly unlikely he would be considered for the opening with BAR-Honda, a team he left on less than amicable terms last year.
Villeneuve was criticized by team boss David Richards for his high salary which he said limited the team's development resources. In the end, the Canadian opted not to race in the season ending Japanese Grand Prix after it became clear the team would sign Sato over Villeneuve for 2004.
I'd rather be in a BAR than a Williams
#357
Senior Moderator
Very dissapointing news. Is Button doing this for fiancial reasons, or is he doing it because he feels that Williams will give him a better shot at the championship than BAR? I can understand it if he is playing Williams and BAR off each other for a higher paycheck, which I can't really blame him too much. However, it is much more troubling if he really feels that Williams is stronger than BAR. Because even if he is retained by BAR, the atmosphere inside BAR could be damaged too severly for the team to be effective next year.
The biggest problem is the timing, since if Button does go to Williams, there are very few alternatives for BAR next year with a replacement driver.
Davidson? Too inexperienced.
Villeneuve? Not probable, since he was just sacked from the team.
Hakkinen? Is he still sharp enough?
Coulthard? Experienced, but clearly on the decline.
The biggest problem is the timing, since if Button does go to Williams, there are very few alternatives for BAR next year with a replacement driver.
Davidson? Too inexperienced.
Villeneuve? Not probable, since he was just sacked from the team.
Hakkinen? Is he still sharp enough?
Coulthard? Experienced, but clearly on the decline.
#358
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by F-C
Because even if he is retained by BAR, the atmosphere inside BAR could be damaged too severly for the team to be effective next year.
Exactly, see JPM
I'd love to see Villeneuve back at BAR next year but there's probly a better chance of me getting that ride.
#359
Senior Moderator
I agree domn. I think of all the eligible replacements, Villeneuve is by far the best candidate. But the relationship between Villeneuve and Pollack and BAR is probably too strained.
#360
101 years of heartache...
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say it aint so!
Jensen Button to Williams-BMW?!
Well they did lose Ralph S. to Toyota, so they needed a replacement. Damnit.
www.vtec.net link
Well they did lose Ralph S. to Toyota, so they needed a replacement. Damnit.
www.vtec.net link