1killercls

sato on teh podium is good enough for me.

TSX 'R' US

great finish for Sato!!

type-s

Yep Sato drove like a monster, we saw more overtaking manoeuvres from Sato in a few laps than for the rest of the drivers for the whole season !

Well done TS.

I saw and greeted him in Barcelona by the way.

Ernie

Mokijoki

Appearently the driving style of Sato in combination with the electronics on the engine is what causes the blowups... Traction control is regulated by 'choking' one or two cylinders (burbling noise you can hear sometimes when accelerating out of corners). What I've read is that Sato just pushes his gas pedal to the floor while e.g Button just keeps his gas pedal against the 'dead point' so the cylinders don't get choked as much...

YBA

Got to admit Sato was fast this week end... He did put a lot of pressure on Trulli... Trulli pushed a bit too hard in corner number 1 which made himself go on the grass... Also Sato never slowed down of the whole race... Well done... Nice clean aggressive driving...

Now if Shumi didn't block Sato 3 times at start, he might have finished second :-D

I was sitting right at turn #1 and I've never seen so many cars get out of the race in one area of the track...

Great race. Better than Montreal.

DEVO

I'm still amazed that nobody came out to see Ralf. It took forever for anybody to show up. Pretty piss poor if you ask me.

TSX 'R' US

Yeah...seemed like it took forever...that really ticked me off... Any word on how Ralph is doing?

dom

TSX 'R' US

Thanks domn... I wonder how he'd be right now if he actually hit the safer barrier instead of the concrete wall...

tsXgtp

Im a big Trulli fan so I have to disagree with you. Sato was on the grass after that move on turn one also. It was overly aggressive. There was also a backmarker along the inside of the turn. IMO he had the faster car and should have been just a bit more patient and made a safer pass later in that lap. Maybe through the second straight where he passed the toyota(?) earlier. Honda also missed the early pits that Ferrari took advantage of. That could have pressured second on the podium.

YBA

You're right, Sato was on the grass as well... They were both pushing hard... My point was that Trulli really felt the pressure from Sato... I totally agree with you, Sato is a Kamikaze and he ain't very patient...

By the way, I also think Trulli is a very good driver...

Sato adds a bit a spice to a very average F1 season... Schumi and Ferrari are just to reliable and performant to make the season exciting...

biker

kurt_bradley

Note to all other F1 teams:

Either run Michael Schumacher off the track enough to where his car will not drive, or get used to hearing the German national anthem followed by the Italian.

DEVO

actually the strategy might have worked had Sato not have had to slow down due to all the debris on the track. He would have came out ahead of MS. But it would have been a long shot. It was all for nothing when MS came out ahead of Sato.

type-s

The main problem thou was BAR not pitting during the Safety car period.

it cost them the race.

Can you imagine in Monaco when Trulli won ? All the musicians going, crap !! sh*t !! we have to plan another anthem !!! where's the music ???

Ernie

DEVO

Actually the main problem was the race should have been red flag at the start to remove all the crap that caused all the other accidents later on in the race.

Can we say Alonso and Ralf?

They should retire the red flag if it's never going to be used... After Monaco and Indy this year... to name just 2, I have no idea when it's ever going to be called for.

tsXgtp

And with Jarno being Italian they only needed to drop the German anthem for the French.
Did anyone notice that they played the anthems longer at Indy? Seemed like they were up there for another 30 seconds.

cmf

Cause they played the remix version!

TSX 'R' US

type-s

everything in the USA is bigger and better !

actually

type-s

everything in the USA is bigger and better !

actually isn't renault a british based team ?

kurt_bradley

Renault: pronounced "rhe'no" It's a French manufacturer that has a factory team. Just like Ferrari. They just have a little smaller budget.

YBA

Off topic: Renault makes a nice small car with a V6, 6 speed, xenon lights... 255bhp on a car the size of a civic hatchback... It's not the best looking hatch I've seen but it's fast as hell...

Check it out

http://www.renault.com/gb/produits/clio_V6.htm

cmf

I always thought Renault was running old Ferrari engines?!

DEVO

cmf, if you are kidding then i don't get the joke.

if not, you are thinking of Sauber... and their engines this year are not so old. Same year just a step behind Ferrari's due to the fact that the engine must last a whole weekend.

cmf

Nope, no joke...my bad. I knew someone was also running ferrari engines. I know renault makes cars and all, but thought maybe they used parts from other engines. Ahhh, never mind. Just trying to keep up my jackass status!

sauceman

Max Mosley's latest proposals suggest he would drop the idea of having only one tire manufacturer in the next years. Instead, he could force the tire manufacturers to build more durable tires, harder compounds, with less grip and traction.

These proposals come to decrease costs, but also increase, paradoxically, safety, as well as contributing in heighteneing the show itself.

The performances have dramatically increased since 1998. See here:

Melbourne pole position evolution:
1998: 1:30 010
1999: 1:30.462
2000: 1:30.556
2001: 1:26.892
2002: 1:25.843
2003: 1:27.173
2004: 1:24.408

Imola pole position evolution:
1998: 1:25.973
1999: 1:26.336
2000: 1:24.714
2001: 1:23.054
2002: 1:21.091
2003: 1:20.628
2004: 1:19.753

Monaco pole position evolution:
1998: 1:19.798
1999: 1:20.547
2000: 1:19.475
2001: 1:17.430
2002: 1:16.676
2003: 1:14.749
2004: 1:13.985

Melbourne best race lap evolution:
1998: 1:31.649
1999: 1:32.112
2000: 1:31.481
2001: 1:28.214
2002: 1:28.541
2003: 1:27.724
2004: 1:24.125

Imola best race lap evolution:
1998: 1:29.345
1999: 1:28.547
2000: 1:26.523
2001: 1:25.524
2002: 1:24.170
2003: 1:22.491
2004: 1:20.411

Monaco best race lap evolution:
1998: 1:22.948
1999: 1:22.259
2000: 1:21.571
2001: 1:19.424
2002: 1:18.023
2003: 1:14.545
2004: 1:14.439

source: www.F1-live.com

ilitig8

Watching the move from turn one also, I have to agree. Sato slid THROUGH the turn, he essentially blocked Trulli from being able to take the turn (even if Trulli was not out braking himself which he may or may not have been). The move was poorly timed and even more poorly executed. A pass is NEVER a good one (maybe effective as it was this time) when you end up in the weeds yourself. Taku is fun to watch but he has to settle down OR someone is gonna get hurt.

Vandy

ilitig8

In a technical way he was correct though, Renault and all the other teams save Ferrari (Marnello) and Toyota (Cologne) are based in Britain.


On the Ralf crash I assume a lot of you know he has been diagnosed as having two spinal fractures which will probably sideline him for the year. Willi Weber (his and Michael's agent) has decried the Indy Hospital (Methodist I think) for missing it, my guess is either blood or tissue swelling prevented seeing it on the initial films OR Willi didn't want the info public so he could ink the 5y 100m contract with Toyota before they found out!

The crash also recorded at 79g, the heaviest shunt recorded by the FIA! Good thing in went in tail first or he would be legless at best dead at worst, very lucky.

To Devo: your interpretation of my logic is incorrect. TS is most certainly a pay driver and MS is not (now). Actually, MS was initially a pay driver for Jordon, many others were as well, DC paid roughly 1m for his first test etc. In TS case Honda acts as a personal sponser, they provided BAR with 165m in engines and 35m in R&D and what did they get? They got the ability to make sure a Japanese driver got a seat, the best current Japanese prospect (who actually had a decent amount of experience) was TS. Now consider the opposite, BMW. BMW provides the engines to Williams essentially for free, what do they get? BMW is the #1 sponser so it is BMW Williams instead of Williams BMW which it would be if Williams paid for the engines as say McLaren does. So instead of being Honda BAR the team remains BAR Honda since they got a seat instead of #1 billing for 200 million bucks! In the end don't interpret pay driver as bad driver, with drivers like MS and Niki Lauda having gotten rides via pay for ride situations it is far from the truth. But it can mean bad driver since you only have to look back to 1998 to see the worst pay driver of all time (OK you could argue Yoong) Ricardo Rosset, he sat on the sidelines for 5 races which he DNQed (4 via the 107% rule) and when he got into races he drove like he was in a cement truck cum bumpercar (agreed the Tyrell wasn't much better than a cement truck!).

Cheers and don't forget Magy-Boring is this weekend! Also the start of the Tour de France with the prolouge on Saturday. Wish I could be in France!

Vandy

ilitig8

Interesting and staggering numbers. I talked with David Hobbes for about an hour at a party in Indy and he was adament that THE solution is not tires/engines/brakes but reducing the downforce. He was near appoplectic that it was the only effective way to get the speeds down (through the turns where the problems are) AND increase overtaking for the fans. It made me rethink my mantra of replacing carbon with iron rotors as being the key. Unfortunately most of the drivers are not onboard with slowing down F1 (Trulli is a notable exception), it may take a horrific shunt at Eau Rouge, the 130r or God forbid a repeat of Tamburello '94 to get the drivers in this frame of mind. Hopefully, Ralf's accident will help move this along.

Vandy

sauceman

Ain't it paradoxal that Eau Rouge and 131R aren't all that dangerous anymore, because all of the pilots can now pass these tricky curves at full throttle because of grippy tires, and also because of TC.

It used to be, a few years ago that only the craziest drivers would pass there at full throttle: MS, JV, DC and maybe Trulli.

kurt_bradley

That would be Sauber. I'll be driving for them one day...
http://redbulldriversearch.com/

Dan Martin

And the winner of the word of the day contest is... Vandy! (even though it's spelled apoplectic)


My goal for today is to use "apoplectic" or "apoplexy" in five separate conversations.

DEVO

Solution is simple... no fuel or tire stops. This will force a harder compound tire... components will have to be made to handle the extra weight.

But yes, remove down force and increase mechanical grip is a good starting point.

ilitig8

I agree, but I have grown to enjoy the stops and the heavy fuel qualy. Both lend quite a bit of intrigue to a race. You never know whats going on until everyone pits the first time. This flies in the face of the purists but I can't help what I prefer.

I am near apoplectic given the realization I can't spell the word...damn hooked on phonics.

Vandy

PS Max Mosley to resign in October, so who knows what will happen with all this now!

tsXgtp

How about limiting enigne power or revs?
Keep the traction and downforce the same. That is what makes the cars safe. If you make them handle more poorly, cars fly off the road.
Keep the fuel stops the same, additional pit stops can help make the racing more team oriented and increase the drama.

ilitig8

The only way to limit power is reducing the displacement or as you mention reducing revs, Max already wants standard ECUs, which they could use to reduce revs and other things like limit the testing time for teams.

But you are really kinda missing the plot, your idea would be fine IF F1 was oval racing, thats how they reduce speed on oval track racing and it increases safety BUT in F1 the straight line speed is NOT the issue. Other than a few rare instances F1 cars don't crash on straights, they crash in turns. Reducing the power would only reduce the speed in the few full throttle turns left in F1 such as the 130r, Eau Rouge, the tunnel and Beckets Complex. 130r has already been changed as a result of high speed shunts there. Bottom line power will do NOTHING to reduce the real speed dangers in F1. The only effective tool is really removing grip either aero or mechanical, flying off in the corners isn't really an issue since as long as they do it at lower speeds the run offs can disapate most of the speed before the barriers. F1 drivers can cope with lower downforce without issue since F1 didn't have ground effects cars until the late 70s and they all came up through open wheel series where they had significantly lower downforce. Lower downforce will likely aid in more overtaking. Overtaking is the other current F1 issue, many of the tracks have added chicanes to lower cornering speeds BUT it reduces the ability to overtake, good for safety, bad for spectacle. The perfect solution would lower speeds, thus increasing safety, increase overtaking options, lower costs (which is a thrid big problem in F1) and not dilute the spirit of F1. In the end it is very hard to do all of these.

Some proposals to do all or some of the previous have been put forward:

Single tire manufacturer with a single spec tire for the race
V8 2.5L engine
Spec ECU
reduced min weight
return to manual gear boxes (manual but sequential)
reduced downforce
iron brake rotors and/or reduced rotor size (they are actually timy now since they have 13 inch wheels!) and/or spec brake systems
no power steering
reduced tire contact patch
no traction control

Bottom line power reduction will only increase safety in the few remaining "dangerous" flat out corners left in F1, the real dangers lie in the medium speed (130-180 mph) corners for which you can only really address either with pre-curve chicanes (which ruins overtaking) or reductions in grip. Cars with less grip won't wind up in the kitty litter more often and when they do it will be at lower speeds.

The really scary thing is that all through the years as lap times go down there has been constant changes in the rules to slow the cars down, but due to the money and expertise involved the teams are able to reduce lap times even with less power, less aero and mechanical grip and more reliability, so it is clear that the changes must be radical and that is a hard pill to swallow for teams and fans alike.

Vandy

DEVO

This isn't the IRL or CART which I find both boring as hell. If the above were to occur... f1 would have one less fan.

DEVO

MAX quits!!!!! About time.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=30548

sauceman