F1... long season
10-22-2004, 04:40 PM
#441
Senior Moderator
wow..
These F1 changes SUCK ASS. I want less restrictions not more. Lowering cornering speed??? Where is the fun in that. 2.4 L? Come on. Let these guys loose. I want to see cars that are crazy fast. If i want to watch slower cars there are plenty of other race series with lots of restrictions.
I may have to start watching cart/irl because of this.
These F1 changes SUCK ASS. I want less restrictions not more. Lowering cornering speed??? Where is the fun in that. 2.4 L? Come on. Let these guys loose. I want to see cars that are crazy fast. If i want to watch slower cars there are plenty of other race series with lots of restrictions.
I may have to start watching cart/irl because of this.
10-23-2004, 08:06 AM
#442
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Originally Posted by fdl
I may have to start watching cart/irl because of this.
But now F1 is headed that way.
I won't have the time to get old before F1 starts imposing diesels.
10-23-2004, 08:39 AM
#443
Race Director
Originally Posted by DEVO
Ok, I just read that the 3 packages proposed to the teams by the FIA could not be agreed upon by the team. Therefore the FIA chose for them.
I still think they need to do the following:
No pit stops for starters. No refueling. Bring back slicks (more mechanical grip). Remove launch control and TC.
The only cool thing that I have heard is the change in format for qualifying. The details are all over the place but anything is better then what they got.
I still think they need to do the following:
No pit stops for starters. No refueling. Bring back slicks (more mechanical grip). Remove launch control and TC.
The only cool thing that I have heard is the change in format for qualifying. The details are all over the place but anything is better then what they got.
Just think - 2.4L of displacement - what car has an equal displacement?
10-23-2004, 08:31 PM
#444
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
What's the latest on that All-American F1 team? Is it for real?
10-23-2004, 11:35 PM
#445
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Originally Posted by kurt_bradley
Not going to happen anytime soon. I didn't make it past the Red Bull testing. I'm too tall anyway (at only 5'11") for F1.
Someone may want to mention this to David, Jenson, Mark and Gianmaria! They make up 20% of the current grid and are all over 5'11".
Width is actually more of an issue than height, ask Nigel, but height does cause issues as well, but it is workable even in todays cars up to Webber's ~6'1" height, after that it gets significanty more difficult.
As far as the changing regulations it is clear that they can't just be let loose as some people suggest, I assume most of these pundits are not motor sports fans. Safety must be a factor. The regulations have been change numerous times in my 28 years of folowing F1, despite this the lap times have dropped lower and lower. The engineers just find better ways, as a result we all win with technology from companies like BMW, Mercedes, Toyota and Honda (most mere mortals don't gain much from Ferrari). Further many people hate the recent strangle hold Ferrari has on F1, if you look historically large rule changes have more often than not changed the "pecking order".
For me the most troubling issue is the possibility of only having 7 teams in 2005, although I agree Jag, Minardi and Jordon haven't set F1 on fire they do add layers of interest. I must admit I long for the day of 117% qualy rules, 30 car grids, tons of privateers and multiple engine displacements/cylinders, but alas those days are probably gone for good in F1.
Vandy
10-25-2004, 07:27 AM
#446
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BAR Honda #2 in Formula 1
All i have to say is congrats to BAR Honda for getting number two in Formula One racing contructors championship . 
To bad about Jensen Button's engine giving up the ghost on him on the last race of the year...maybe next year they will even be more dominating if they can improve their engine reliability, or if Michael Schumacher retires
.
To bad about Jensen Button's engine giving up the ghost on him on the last race of the year...maybe next year they will even be more dominating if they can improve their engine reliability, or if Michael Schumacher retires
.
10-25-2004, 07:43 AM
#448
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I missed it as well since I was switching between football and F1. I watched enough to know that BAR beat out Renault for second place. I also did not realize until this morning that Jensen Button got third place in the drivers championship.
10-25-2004, 02:17 PM
#451
Senior Moderator
MEXICO CITY (AP) - Formula One racing will return to Mexico in 2006, government officials and promoters said Monday.
The five-year agreement calls for a new five-kilometre race track just south of Cancun's international airport. Construction on the $70-million US track is expected to begin in January, with the first race possibly taking place in October 2006.
Quintana Roo Tourism Secretary Artemio Santos Santos said the race would help fill 50,000 hotel rooms during Cancun's low season, when occupancy is only 50 per cent to 55 per cent.
Federal Tourism Secretary Rodolfo Elizondo said promoters estimate the race will bring in $200 million US in revenue between airline tickets, hotels, food and race tickets, which organizers said can run from $150 to $5,000 US.
The track is said to cost more than Turkish organizers will spend in their new Formula One track, but much less than the $320 million US cost of the new Shanghai track in China.
Mexico hosted Formula One races at the Hermanos Rodriguez Autodrome in Mexico City intermittently from the 1960s until 1992, when the increasingly bumpy track was dropped from the circuit.
The Mexico City track was revamped and restored for Champ car racing in 2002. Last year's race drew 221,011 spectators, and organizers said 402,413 attended the three days of qualifying and racing.
The five-year agreement calls for a new five-kilometre race track just south of Cancun's international airport. Construction on the $70-million US track is expected to begin in January, with the first race possibly taking place in October 2006.
Quintana Roo Tourism Secretary Artemio Santos Santos said the race would help fill 50,000 hotel rooms during Cancun's low season, when occupancy is only 50 per cent to 55 per cent.
Federal Tourism Secretary Rodolfo Elizondo said promoters estimate the race will bring in $200 million US in revenue between airline tickets, hotels, food and race tickets, which organizers said can run from $150 to $5,000 US.
The track is said to cost more than Turkish organizers will spend in their new Formula One track, but much less than the $320 million US cost of the new Shanghai track in China.
Mexico hosted Formula One races at the Hermanos Rodriguez Autodrome in Mexico City intermittently from the 1960s until 1992, when the increasingly bumpy track was dropped from the circuit.
The Mexico City track was revamped and restored for Champ car racing in 2002. Last year's race drew 221,011 spectators, and organizers said 402,413 attended the three days of qualifying and racing.
10-25-2004, 02:18 PM
#452
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by DEVO
Are the tires going to be grooved next year? I think this is the case but that only 2 sets will be given out.
10-25-2004, 02:51 PM
#453
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well it's 2 sets of tires for the weekend as I understand it. one for practise and the other for qualifying and racing.
also, i read that if a puncture does occur, the team has to use the other set of tires regardless of condition... before a new set is given.
also, i read that if a puncture does occur, the team has to use the other set of tires regardless of condition... before a new set is given.
10-25-2004, 02:57 PM
#454
Senior Moderator
I remember when F1 did without refuelling. Always thought that was strange comapred to other racing series and now they're going to the other extreme. Any idea when they began fueling during races? Was it early 90's?
10-26-2004, 01:36 PM
#456
Senior Moderator
LONDON (AP) - Four leading car companies plan to split from Formula One and launch a rival open-wheel Grand Prix racing series by 2008.
The group - which includes BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ferrari and Renault - is known collectively as the Grand Prix World Championship consortium.
They had been seeking a bigger share of Formula One's revenues and said the new series will "maintain the strengths of Formula One, while eliminating its weaknesses" during an announcement on Tuesday.
They have appointed consultants International Sports and Entertainment AG to begin the process of building the operational and commercial structure for a new series.
Currently, the manufacturers and teams are bound by the existing Concorde Agreement from establishing a rival series until the end of 2007.
GPWC was formed in 2001, unhappy with the way the current division of Formula One's commercial rights, which are held by SLEC - a holding company set up by F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and controlled by three German banks. They have been pushing for a bigger share of F1's estimated annual income of $810 million US.
It appeared a deal had been reached between the three parties in December 2003. But GPWC accused the F1 agency of failing to comply with the terms of the agreement. The group broke off talks in April and resumed plans for its own circuit.
"We have been more than patient with the current management and governance of Formula One, but recent developments have underlined the need for a structure that guarantees a stable and prosperous future of the sport," GPWC chairman Juergen Hubbert said.
Ford, which was an original member of GPWC, recently announced plans to get out of Formula One. It has passed on its shareholding to the other four car makers.
"GPWC will continue to seek input from Ford, as well as from the other major car manufacturers as it develops the new series," the statement said.
The group - which includes BMW, DaimlerChrysler, Ferrari and Renault - is known collectively as the Grand Prix World Championship consortium.
They had been seeking a bigger share of Formula One's revenues and said the new series will "maintain the strengths of Formula One, while eliminating its weaknesses" during an announcement on Tuesday.
They have appointed consultants International Sports and Entertainment AG to begin the process of building the operational and commercial structure for a new series.
Currently, the manufacturers and teams are bound by the existing Concorde Agreement from establishing a rival series until the end of 2007.
GPWC was formed in 2001, unhappy with the way the current division of Formula One's commercial rights, which are held by SLEC - a holding company set up by F1 boss Bernie Ecclestone and controlled by three German banks. They have been pushing for a bigger share of F1's estimated annual income of $810 million US.
It appeared a deal had been reached between the three parties in December 2003. But GPWC accused the F1 agency of failing to comply with the terms of the agreement. The group broke off talks in April and resumed plans for its own circuit.
"We have been more than patient with the current management and governance of Formula One, but recent developments have underlined the need for a structure that guarantees a stable and prosperous future of the sport," GPWC chairman Juergen Hubbert said.
Ford, which was an original member of GPWC, recently announced plans to get out of Formula One. It has passed on its shareholding to the other four car makers.
"GPWC will continue to seek input from Ford, as well as from the other major car manufacturers as it develops the new series," the statement said.
10-26-2004, 02:44 PM
#457
I'm the Firestarter
What if instead of putting limits on engine, they limited the quantity of fuel used? Wouldn't that slow down the cars while limiting speeds? Seems to me like fuel economy is the next challenge for automakers...
10-26-2004, 03:36 PM
#459
Big Block go VROOOM!
Originally Posted by Belzebutt
What if instead of putting limits on engine, they limited the quantity of fuel used? Wouldn't that slow down the cars while limiting speeds? Seems to me like fuel economy is the next challenge for automakers...
Originally Posted by domn
I remember when F1 did without refuelling. Always thought that was strange comapred to other racing series and now they're going to the other extreme. Any idea when they began fueling during races? Was it early 90's?
10-27-2004, 08:14 AM
#460
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Originally Posted by domn
I remember when F1 did without refuelling. Always thought that was strange comapred to other racing series and now they're going to the other extreme. Any idea when they began fueling during races? Was it early 90's?
I think the first year was '94 when Jos V. had his nasty fuel explosion.
Vandy
I can't believe I missed your post until now. That's huge news!
10-29-2004, 09:24 AM
#462
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10-29-2004, 09:30 AM
#463
Senior Moderator
If you thouht JV was rusty after almost a year off imagine this guy after 3 years off.
"Co-owner Patrick Head told Autosport magazine: “It would be a risk after he has been out of the sport for three seasons, but you have to think seriously about a man who has the talent to twice beat Michael Schumacher to the title.”"
Beat MS?
It was his car that beat MS.
If Willaims goes in with Webber and Pinnoza, they should just start getting ready for 06 when Button joins.
"Co-owner Patrick Head told Autosport magazine: “It would be a risk after he has been out of the sport for three seasons, but you have to think seriously about a man who has the talent to twice beat Michael Schumacher to the title.”"
Beat MS?
It was his car that beat MS.If Willaims goes in with Webber and Pinnoza, they should just start getting ready for 06 when Button joins.
10-29-2004, 12:26 PM
#464
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Ferrari was good then. So it wasn't just the car. I mean EI almost won the WDC. So it couldn't have been that bad of a car.
Webber will offer nothing. How he got the job is beyond me. Mika, even with his absence will walk all over Webber and provide better feedback then Webber.
Webber will offer nothing. How he got the job is beyond me. Mika, even with his absence will walk all over Webber and provide better feedback then Webber.
10-30-2004, 12:47 PM
#465
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Originally Posted by DEVO
Ferrari was good then. So it wasn't just the car. I mean EI almost won the WDC. So it couldn't have been that bad of a car.
Webber will offer nothing. How he got the job is beyond me. Mika, even with his absence will walk all over Webber and provide better feedback then Webber.
Webber will offer nothing. How he got the job is beyond me. Mika, even with his absence will walk all over Webber and provide better feedback then Webber.
In all fairness Ferrari was better than it had been but it was still an inferior mount to Mika's. Don't get me wrong I like the Fin but he would not be able to "take it to MS" after 3 years outta the car even if he was in a Ferrari as well.
On a general note Ferrari seems to be in the "pound seat" for next year. They were able to dump development of the current chassis and engine after clinching the WDC and WCC while the others kept pouring assets into the 04 cars. It was clear after Ferrari quit developing the F2004 in the later part of the season they lost their pure dominate edge. It would actually suprise me that they aren't the quickest out of the box in Albert Park next year. Heck even if they are the quickest on the grid thier unmatched reliability would keep them in contention on its own.
Vandy
11-19-2004, 09:31 AM
#466
Senior Moderator
Honda buys into BAR
From BBC:
British American Tobacco (BAT) and Honda will now form a joint venture company which will replace the existing BAR structure, with BAT having a controlling 55% stake.
Richards - whose Prodrive organisation challenges for international titles in rallying and sportscars - has been ousted a year before the end of his contract as a result of the reshuffle, but he remains positive.
"We were brought in by British American Tobacco to turn the team around and secure its long-term future and that is what we have done," he said.
"I am immensely proud of what Prodrive has achieved in a shorter time than anticipated.
"I believe that BAR Honda is now in a very healthy position to continue its pursuit of the world championship."
Richards, 52, will stay in a consultancy role until the end of February.
Honda managing director Takanobu Ito added: "This is a natural extension of our relationship with BAR and is an important step for both partners.
"The new commitment will further strengthen the structure for cooperation as we push forward with our Formula One challenge."
As part of the deal, BAT and Honda have made an offer to buy the small 10 percent stake still owned by Pollock, Reynard and Rick Gorne.
BAT say if the shareholders refuse to sell, it will seek the appointment of administrators to the new holding company.
"The new joint venture company then expects to acquire, from the administrator, the shares in British American Racing GP Ltd which operates the team and which is the holding company's principal asset," said a BAT statement.
"The day to day activities of the team will not be affected by this process."
Honda said it will appoint directors to the board of BAR and add a number of staff to the 30 engineers at the team's Brackley headquarters.
BAT are thought to be scaling back their interest in F1 due to a European Union law which bans tobacco advertising from mid-2005 with a worldwide ban due to be enforced by the end of 2006.
Very Interesting. Didn't know that Adrian Reynard was still involved in BAR.
Looks like Honda is really stepping up now.
British American Tobacco (BAT) and Honda will now form a joint venture company which will replace the existing BAR structure, with BAT having a controlling 55% stake.
Richards - whose Prodrive organisation challenges for international titles in rallying and sportscars - has been ousted a year before the end of his contract as a result of the reshuffle, but he remains positive.
"We were brought in by British American Tobacco to turn the team around and secure its long-term future and that is what we have done," he said.
"I am immensely proud of what Prodrive has achieved in a shorter time than anticipated.
"I believe that BAR Honda is now in a very healthy position to continue its pursuit of the world championship."
Richards, 52, will stay in a consultancy role until the end of February.
Honda managing director Takanobu Ito added: "This is a natural extension of our relationship with BAR and is an important step for both partners.
"The new commitment will further strengthen the structure for cooperation as we push forward with our Formula One challenge."
As part of the deal, BAT and Honda have made an offer to buy the small 10 percent stake still owned by Pollock, Reynard and Rick Gorne.
BAT say if the shareholders refuse to sell, it will seek the appointment of administrators to the new holding company.
"The new joint venture company then expects to acquire, from the administrator, the shares in British American Racing GP Ltd which operates the team and which is the holding company's principal asset," said a BAT statement.
"The day to day activities of the team will not be affected by this process."
Honda said it will appoint directors to the board of BAR and add a number of staff to the 30 engineers at the team's Brackley headquarters.
BAT are thought to be scaling back their interest in F1 due to a European Union law which bans tobacco advertising from mid-2005 with a worldwide ban due to be enforced by the end of 2006.
Very Interesting. Didn't know that Adrian Reynard was still involved in BAR.
Looks like Honda is really stepping up now.
11-19-2004, 09:40 AM
#467
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Originally Posted by F-C
Richards - whose Prodrive organisation challenges for international titles in rallying and sportscars - has been ousted a year before the end of his contract as a result of the reshuffle, but he remains positive.
"We were brought in by British American Tobacco to turn the team around and secure its long-term future and that is what we have done," he said.
"I am immensely proud of what Prodrive has achieved in a shorter time than anticipated.
Very Interesting. Didn't know that Adrian Reynard was still involved in BAR.
Looks like Honda is really stepping up now.
Yes, Reynard always kept a minority sharehold in BAR. He was ousted because he couldn't get along with the F1 engineers who requested major adjustments be made to the chassis in BAR's 1st year of existence.
11-19-2004, 09:44 AM
#468
Senior Moderator
BAR's turnaround was a result off one thing and one thing only IMO. A more reliable and far more Powerful Honda engine. Honda stepped up and the team had results.
11-19-2004, 09:46 AM
#469
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What about the Michelins, improved aero package, improved rear end stability, etc?
During the season analysts were saying the Michelins ALONE had won them about a second and a half per lap.
During the season analysts were saying the Michelins ALONE had won them about a second and a half per lap.
11-19-2004, 09:59 AM
#470
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by sauceman
What about the Michelins, improved aero package, improved rear end stability, etc?
During the season analysts were saying the Michelins ALONE had won them about a second and a half per lap.
During the season analysts were saying the Michelins ALONE had won them about a second and a half per lap.
Definitely a group effot. There is no doubt that the combination of a vastly improved Honda engine, the non-Ferrari-biased Michelins, the efficient Geoff Willis chassis, and a maturing duo of drivers have all contributed to the success of 2004. How much has Dave Richards contributed to the success is questionable, especially with some of the strategy calls he made this year. However, his stock in GP has surely been boosted, so I doubt he will leave F1 for long. I suspect he could be back at Renault/Benetton after Flavio leaves.
11-19-2004, 02:25 PM
#471
Suzuka Master
I have to agree with Dom and the saucey one: The more reliable engine helps a great deal, but they got the chassis in order (especially in proper aerodynamics) this season. I am also glad that they ruled to keep JB's ass in a Honda. Money may talk in some worlds, but BAR shows too much promise. Let's just hope he puts forth his utmost effort. I also love that Honda is putting 30 engineers in the BAR facility.
Holy ressurections, Batman!
Sorry, I had to.
Holy ressurections, Batman!
Sorry, I had to.
11-21-2004, 08:05 PM
#472
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Originally Posted by domn
BAR's turnaround was a result off one thing and one thing only IMO. A more reliable and far more Powerful Honda engine. Honda stepped up and the team had results.
I disagree, the engine was indeed significantly more powerful BUT far from reliable!!! In any case the Honda engine was maybe 20% of the improvement, tires were probably 50%. Since they proved rather unrelaible the only real advantage was the excellent horsepower, however if you take the Cosworths out of the equation all the current F1 engines produce rather similar power but it is the chassis that makes the real difference. BMW, Honda and Ferrari produce the most power, however Ferrari (3rd of the 3 in power) dominates the field due to the chassis/tires, Ferrrari also understand power is a non-issue if you don't finish (their engines do NOT expire) Honda may have shot themselves in the foot looking for HP and ignoring reliability for much of the season. For another example the Toyota engine has a lot of grunt but the chassis sucked and you see where that got them. The Honda engine did help but there were at least 2 other engines on the grid that would have produced better results in the chassis.
Good luck to BAR but I have a feeling they will finish 4th in the WCC next year, Macca and Williams will not take matters lying down, plus Macca has a far superior driver lineup.
Vandy
12-17-2004, 01:48 PM
#473
Senior Moderator
David Coulthard will be on the starting grid in Australia in March, signing a one year deal with Red Bull Racing for 2005.
"After speaking to team owner Dietrich Mateschitz I was impressed by Red Bull Racing's plans for the future," Coulthard tells the Austrian news agency APA. "This is definitely an exciting new team."
Autosport reports Coulthard has agreed to a performance-based contract, meaning he will be paid according to his on-track results.
Coulthard will earn less $4-million in base salary but has the potential to pick up $180,000 for every championship point, according to the report. Applied to last year's total, he would have earned $4.3-million. However, Mark Webber only scored seven points with the R5 chassis which will form the basis for Red Bull's 2005 car. That would translate into $1.26-million.
The news comes on the heels of a successful test by the 33 year old last week in Jerez, Spain. According to the Independent newspaper, Coulthard impressed team officials with his "calm and incisive approach".
After initially rejecting the veteran driver, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz admitted that it would be foolish not to consider someone with his driving pedigree. Managing director David Pitchforth went one step further, calling it a "no brainer" to hire an experienced driver such as Coulthard.
Coulthard, the second winningest active driver in Formula One, was left without a ride after McLaren replaced him with Juan Pablo Montoya. He had been widely expected to join Jaguar Racing before Ford decided to sell the Formula One team.
In 11 seasons Coulthard has won 13 races but has not tasted victory since the 2003 Australian Grand Prix. His best finish last season was fourth at Hockenheim.
A second driver is expected to be confirmed in the new year, however, some reports say Christian Klien will be back for a second season. F3000 champion Vittantonio Liuzzi has also tested with the team. The Italian has already ruled out suggestions of sharing the second seat with Klien next season.
"After speaking to team owner Dietrich Mateschitz I was impressed by Red Bull Racing's plans for the future," Coulthard tells the Austrian news agency APA. "This is definitely an exciting new team."
Autosport reports Coulthard has agreed to a performance-based contract, meaning he will be paid according to his on-track results.
Coulthard will earn less $4-million in base salary but has the potential to pick up $180,000 for every championship point, according to the report. Applied to last year's total, he would have earned $4.3-million. However, Mark Webber only scored seven points with the R5 chassis which will form the basis for Red Bull's 2005 car. That would translate into $1.26-million.
The news comes on the heels of a successful test by the 33 year old last week in Jerez, Spain. According to the Independent newspaper, Coulthard impressed team officials with his "calm and incisive approach".
After initially rejecting the veteran driver, Red Bull owner Dietrich Mateschitz admitted that it would be foolish not to consider someone with his driving pedigree. Managing director David Pitchforth went one step further, calling it a "no brainer" to hire an experienced driver such as Coulthard.
Coulthard, the second winningest active driver in Formula One, was left without a ride after McLaren replaced him with Juan Pablo Montoya. He had been widely expected to join Jaguar Racing before Ford decided to sell the Formula One team.
In 11 seasons Coulthard has won 13 races but has not tasted victory since the 2003 Australian Grand Prix. His best finish last season was fourth at Hockenheim.
A second driver is expected to be confirmed in the new year, however, some reports say Christian Klien will be back for a second season. F3000 champion Vittantonio Liuzzi has also tested with the team. The Italian has already ruled out suggestions of sharing the second seat with Klien next season.
12-17-2004, 02:54 PM
#476
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by kurt_bradley
David finally gets to drive something Ferrari-powered.
There using Ferrari Motors? I thought it wa sonly Sauber that used them?
12-17-2004, 03:01 PM
#478
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Originally Posted by kurt_bradley
I thought Sauber was the Red Bull team... 
I thought the Red Bull Team was the formar Jaguar Team?
12-17-2004, 03:42 PM
#480
Senior Moderator
And in other news Jordan will be using Toyota Power ( not sure Power is a good word to use here 
)
http://www.formula1.com/news/2424.html
)http://www.formula1.com/news/2424.html