Acura Rumours for 2009
#1
Acura Rumours for 2009
Exciting stuff on the way:
Notes:
Acura to have LMP1 and LMP2 programs next year
AGR dropped by Acura
Franchitti to join de Ferran in second car
LMP1 car to be hybrid
Racecar Engineering’s Sam Collins mentioned that Acura’s 2009 LMP1 challenger has been seen on a computer screen, but images of the real-life car are still pending. An announcement of the Japanese manufacturer’s ’09 plans are expected in September. That announcement appears to include only three of the four current Acura teams as SPEEDtv.com’s Robin Miller broke earlier this week while he was scouring for AGR Indycar information.
I’d heard a few months back the Honda was only looking to keep three teams for 2009 and that AGR was on the hot seat as the team most likely to get cut. Following Robin’s more than credible reports, it looks as though AGR’s loss could be de Ferran’s gain as he also says the Brazilian’s impressive turn as team owner has netted him a second entry for 2009.
This helps to round 2009 into better shape as Acura is expected to maintain an LMP2 presence while taking their first steps in LMP1. Based upon the performances of the three teams going forward into ’09, one would have to imagine Patron Highcroft Racing is a lock for the P1 car; with the car designed by Nick Wirth’s team at Wirth Research and their partners at HPD, and Nick working most closely with the Highcroft team, it makes sense for the P1 car to go to their most successful team and driver/engineer+designer relationship.
Gil de Ferran’s team has asserted itself as the #2 team in Acura’s hierarchy, but I’d see the team as a better fit to spend 2009 gaining more sportscar experience in LMP2 while expanding their ranks to a two-car team. Robin also mentions the possibility of Dario Franchitti becoming involved in de Ferran’s second Acura, and to my mind, and whether it’s true or not, it’d be an incredibly smart move on Acura’s part.
Acura's newest entrant looks to be expanding to two cars in '09. Rumors of Dario Franchitti's involvement in that 2nd car are also growing.
I had a chat on the topic with Radio Le Mans host John Hindhaugh at Elkhart Lake and we agreed signing Dario makes too much sense to happen; he’s famous, he’s bloody fast; the natural rivalry between the Franchitti brothers driving for competing marques is guaranteed to draw interest, and the assembled media would swoon over his wife every time she was in pit lane. It’s a marketing home run, not to mention a brutally effective driver lineup.
So who would land alongside Dario in the car? That’s a great question. I don’t know what kind of contract Franck Montagny has—whether it’s with Acura, AGR, Acura+AGR, or how long it’s for. If the Frenchman is a free agent after AGR bows out at Laguna Seca, Audi needs to be escorting him from his Acura over to their tent to fit him for a seat in the R10 immediately.There has not been another driver in the ALMS series to surpass Montagny on raw speed since his debut at Lime Rock. No one.
His experience with the other cars and drivers in the series needs to grow (see: Drayson, Paul, Elkhart Lake), but the ex-F1 racer and tester is an absolute stud behind the wheel of a sportscar. Add in his testing and development prowess and Montagny becomes the most sought after driver for 2009. Provided he’s available…
Finally, the Lowe's Fernandez Acura team is a great choice to join Highcroft in the LMP1 ranks despite their relative lack of results. The team has had a few off days this year, but more often than not, they’ve just been on the wrong side of good fortune. They can’t continue to be a lightening rod for bad luck, and a move to P1 is a great fit for a team with a decade of experience running in top series.
The final whisper about the P1 program is that it might utilize hybrid power. With Zytek set to go hybrid and Peugeot’s engine team almost a year into their own hybrid developments, more than a few manufacturers have their calendars set for the ACO's September 15th rules announcement to clear the way and chart a path for hybrid usage.
I’d heard a few months back the Honda was only looking to keep three teams for 2009 and that AGR was on the hot seat as the team most likely to get cut. Following Robin’s more than credible reports, it looks as though AGR’s loss could be de Ferran’s gain as he also says the Brazilian’s impressive turn as team owner has netted him a second entry for 2009.
This helps to round 2009 into better shape as Acura is expected to maintain an LMP2 presence while taking their first steps in LMP1. Based upon the performances of the three teams going forward into ’09, one would have to imagine Patron Highcroft Racing is a lock for the P1 car; with the car designed by Nick Wirth’s team at Wirth Research and their partners at HPD, and Nick working most closely with the Highcroft team, it makes sense for the P1 car to go to their most successful team and driver/engineer+designer relationship.
Gil de Ferran’s team has asserted itself as the #2 team in Acura’s hierarchy, but I’d see the team as a better fit to spend 2009 gaining more sportscar experience in LMP2 while expanding their ranks to a two-car team. Robin also mentions the possibility of Dario Franchitti becoming involved in de Ferran’s second Acura, and to my mind, and whether it’s true or not, it’d be an incredibly smart move on Acura’s part.
Acura's newest entrant looks to be expanding to two cars in '09. Rumors of Dario Franchitti's involvement in that 2nd car are also growing.
I had a chat on the topic with Radio Le Mans host John Hindhaugh at Elkhart Lake and we agreed signing Dario makes too much sense to happen; he’s famous, he’s bloody fast; the natural rivalry between the Franchitti brothers driving for competing marques is guaranteed to draw interest, and the assembled media would swoon over his wife every time she was in pit lane. It’s a marketing home run, not to mention a brutally effective driver lineup.
So who would land alongside Dario in the car? That’s a great question. I don’t know what kind of contract Franck Montagny has—whether it’s with Acura, AGR, Acura+AGR, or how long it’s for. If the Frenchman is a free agent after AGR bows out at Laguna Seca, Audi needs to be escorting him from his Acura over to their tent to fit him for a seat in the R10 immediately.There has not been another driver in the ALMS series to surpass Montagny on raw speed since his debut at Lime Rock. No one.
His experience with the other cars and drivers in the series needs to grow (see: Drayson, Paul, Elkhart Lake), but the ex-F1 racer and tester is an absolute stud behind the wheel of a sportscar. Add in his testing and development prowess and Montagny becomes the most sought after driver for 2009. Provided he’s available…
Finally, the Lowe's Fernandez Acura team is a great choice to join Highcroft in the LMP1 ranks despite their relative lack of results. The team has had a few off days this year, but more often than not, they’ve just been on the wrong side of good fortune. They can’t continue to be a lightening rod for bad luck, and a move to P1 is a great fit for a team with a decade of experience running in top series.
The final whisper about the P1 program is that it might utilize hybrid power. With Zytek set to go hybrid and Peugeot’s engine team almost a year into their own hybrid developments, more than a few manufacturers have their calendars set for the ACO's September 15th rules announcement to clear the way and chart a path for hybrid usage.
Acura to have LMP1 and LMP2 programs next year
AGR dropped by Acura
Franchitti to join de Ferran in second car
LMP1 car to be hybrid
#2
Confirmed.
de Ferran and Highcroft to move into LMP1 next season. Car to be designed by Nick Wirth. (hopefully it won't be a repeat of Simtek. )
Fernandez to stay in LMP2.
AGR dropped.
de Ferran and Highcroft to move into LMP1 next season. Car to be designed by Nick Wirth. (hopefully it won't be a repeat of Simtek. )
Fernandez to stay in LMP2.
AGR dropped.
#3
AGR is not dropped as of yet according to the ALMS coverage this weekend. They are currently in negotiations with Acura on their future. I am guessing they will be with Fernandes in LMP2 next season, but who knows.
#5
Why would it have to be diesel? They could just use petrol. And who knows, they might be working on a diesel.
I'm curious to Acura's direction with this project. Is the LMP1 program designed to win ALMS or Le Mans?
I'm curious to Acura's direction with this project. Is the LMP1 program designed to win ALMS or Le Mans?
#6
#7
But the tracks are different. Le Mans is a high speed track, whereas there are alot of slow street courses in the ALMS schedule.
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#8
Even with reduced engine displacement and fuel tank capacity than gasoline engines, diesel engined P1 cars seem to have dominated the P1 category with Audi and the new comer Peugeot. Unless Acura can work magic with gasoline engines with extended fuel mileage and torque output.
#10
about how they reduced the size of the fuel tank because of the huge advantage they were getting mileage wise with diesel. The governing bodies try to keep things somewhat level in that respect. I think it is possible for the diesels to be beaten with the right car. A change in the regs might be necessary though. A few years ago the Pescarolos were not far off from beating Audi at Le Mans,...I think the first year they came with the diesel cars.
Anyway, in the end it comes down to a matter reliability and finding the right balance between fuel economy and power etc for a petrol car to beat the diesels. Maybe Honda, a great engine builder, will be able to create a high enough HP/TQ engine that is reliable enough to beat Audi and Peugeot.
Let's look at ALMS (I dont get LMS on TV). The LMP2 cars have beaten the LMP1 cars a number of times the last year or two on tighter, more twisty circuits. From watching a lot of ALMS, the larger/faster circuits are where the Audis shine. A quick check of the LMS regs (which are the same as ALMS I believe) shows that the minimum weight difference btween P1 and P2 cars is 75kgs (900 vs 825 respectively).
For petrol engines
- P2 max engine capacity is 3400ccs and 8 cylinders
- P1 max engine capacity is 6000ccs naturally aspirated (doesnt give a limitation on # of cylinders)
So,.......Honda/Acura jumps up to P1,.....they add 75kgs at a min to the car, but have another 2600ccs to play with in whatever configuration they want. If the new chassis is a good one, and they can come up with a really strong engine,...maybe they can do it???
What do you guys think? I am no expert obviously, but thought I would point out some facts/info. Let's get a good discussion going here. Speculate away!!!!!!!
Anyway, in the end it comes down to a matter reliability and finding the right balance between fuel economy and power etc for a petrol car to beat the diesels. Maybe Honda, a great engine builder, will be able to create a high enough HP/TQ engine that is reliable enough to beat Audi and Peugeot.
Let's look at ALMS (I dont get LMS on TV). The LMP2 cars have beaten the LMP1 cars a number of times the last year or two on tighter, more twisty circuits. From watching a lot of ALMS, the larger/faster circuits are where the Audis shine. A quick check of the LMS regs (which are the same as ALMS I believe) shows that the minimum weight difference btween P1 and P2 cars is 75kgs (900 vs 825 respectively).
For petrol engines
- P2 max engine capacity is 3400ccs and 8 cylinders
- P1 max engine capacity is 6000ccs naturally aspirated (doesnt give a limitation on # of cylinders)
So,.......Honda/Acura jumps up to P1,.....they add 75kgs at a min to the car, but have another 2600ccs to play with in whatever configuration they want. If the new chassis is a good one, and they can come up with a really strong engine,...maybe they can do it???
What do you guys think? I am no expert obviously, but thought I would point out some facts/info. Let's get a good discussion going here. Speculate away!!!!!!!
#11
Like I said, it all depends on whether Acura plans on going to Le Mans any time soon. Since the money for this will probably come from Honda America, they might have no incentive at all to win Le Mans. If that is the case, they can focus their development on beating the Audis in ALMS. It also depends on the ACO's eventual rule changes, which are currently being planned, but won't effect the 2009 season.
#12
I honestly don't see LeMans having any more or less influence on Acura's P1 plans than it does for any other manufacturer. So relatively speaking, I don't think LeMans is much of an issue at all for Acura. Its unique characteristics are a design challenge for Acura the same as they are for everyone else.
#13
.....
For petrol engines
- P2 max engine capacity is 3400ccs and 8 cylinders
- P1 max engine capacity is 6000ccs naturally aspirated (doesnt give a limitation on # of cylinders)
So,.......Honda/Acura jumps up to P1,.....they add 75kgs at a min to the car, but have another 2600ccs to play with in whatever configuration they want. If the new chassis is a good one, and they can come up with a really strong engine,...maybe they can do it???
What do you guys think? I am no expert obviously, but thought I would point out some facts/info. Let's get a good discussion going here. Speculate away!!!!!!!
Gasoline engine - 6000 cc max. naturally-aspirated
Gasoline engine - 4000 cc max. turbocharged/supercharged
Diesel engine - 6000 cc max. naturally-aspirated
Diesel engine - 5500 cc max. turbocharged/supercharged
2008 Audi R10 LMP1 cars use a 5.5 litre V12 TDI DPF twin-turbo diesel powerplant.
If Acura is to use NA gas engine for it's LMP1 cars, the additional 2.6L of gasoline displacement may not be any better against the Audi's twin-turbo TDI diesel contesters which is only 500 cc smaller in comparison.
In addition, even with more hp from the additional 2.6L, the extra weight and extra engine displacement for the LMP1 spec cars will only mean more frequently visits to the pit pump, which equates to more unnecessary time loss to the better fuel mileage Audi diesel cars.
So it's not going to be easy for Acura to nail down on a better gasoline engine design to beat the Audi's and the Peuguet's.
#14
Good points Edward, never thought of some of that stuff.
Using up more fuel might not be a bad thing though. If the car is faster than the audi, enough to get a long enough gap on the audi before refuelling, then victory could still be possible. The old,...slower but better fuel economy vs faster with crappier fuel economy,...deal.
With a good chassis, good aero pgk, and a really powerful engine,......maybe it will be fast enough???? Sounds good in theory, but the diesels are so friggen fast,..I think that is unlikely.
What about using a 4000 cc turbo with insane power? Reliability probably nixxes that idea.
Thoughts?
Using up more fuel might not be a bad thing though. If the car is faster than the audi, enough to get a long enough gap on the audi before refuelling, then victory could still be possible. The old,...slower but better fuel economy vs faster with crappier fuel economy,...deal.
With a good chassis, good aero pgk, and a really powerful engine,......maybe it will be fast enough???? Sounds good in theory, but the diesels are so friggen fast,..I think that is unlikely.
What about using a 4000 cc turbo with insane power? Reliability probably nixxes that idea.
Thoughts?
#15
Back in the 80's and early 90's, Honda F1 engines were at the performance peak absolutely dominating the F1 race fields as an engine supplier. The 1.5L twin-turbo V8 and the 3.5L NA V10 powerplants enabled the Williams and the McLaren teams to capture a total of six constructor's championships.
Gone are the good old days. The current Honda F1 team is ranking close to the bottom in championship points, fighting for positions with the small-budgeted bottom teams.
That's why I think Honda will need some magics with new engine designs to pull this one through in order to beat the mighty Audi P1 diesel cars.
Gone are the good old days. The current Honda F1 team is ranking close to the bottom in championship points, fighting for positions with the small-budgeted bottom teams.
That's why I think Honda will need some magics with new engine designs to pull this one through in order to beat the mighty Audi P1 diesel cars.
#16
Back in the 80's and early 90's, Honda F1 engines were at the performance peak absolutely dominating the F1 race fields as an engine supplier. The 1.5L twin-turbo V8 and the 3.5L NA V10 powerplants enabled the Williams and the McLaren teams to capture a total of six constructor's championships.
Gone are the good old days. The current Honda F1 team is ranking close to the bottom in championship points, fighting for positions with the small-budgeted bottom teams.
That's why I think Honda will need some magics with new engine designs to pull this one through in order to beat the mighty Audi P1 diesel cars.
Gone are the good old days. The current Honda F1 team is ranking close to the bottom in championship points, fighting for positions with the small-budgeted bottom teams.
That's why I think Honda will need some magics with new engine designs to pull this one through in order to beat the mighty Audi P1 diesel cars.
#17
The P2 cars obviously have a weight advantage over the P1 cars, with the Porsche P1's beating the Audi P1's to the finish lines quite a few times already.
So I bet the Acura P2's will also be beating the Acura P1 spec cars too when raced together next year.
So I bet the Acura P2's will also be beating the Acura P1 spec cars too when raced together next year.
#18
Hence why they are not canceling the P2 program.
#19
and the Acura P2's have beat the Audis P1s a few times this year in ALMS
#21
peugeot diesel-electric, put the smackdown on audi/acura...
http://www.leftlanenews.com/peugeot-...rid-racer.html
http://www.leftlanenews.com/peugeot-...rid-racer.html
#27
Peugeot was leading in championship points right up to this Silverstone event. Just because the two Peugeot P1's crashed out, Peugeot handed both the driver's and manufacturer's titles to Audi.
Should had been more careful passing the slower cars, because the titles were at stake.
Should had been more careful passing the slower cars, because the titles were at stake.
#28
Peugeot was leading in championship points right up to this Silverstone event. Just because the two Peugeot P1's crashed out, Peugeot handed both the driver's and manufacturer's titles to Audi.
Should had been more careful passing the slower cars, because the titles were at stake.
Should had been more careful passing the slower cars, because the titles were at stake.
I wish they showed that on TV over here too
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